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We need to have a talk on how we treat sexual assault victims on this site
- Thread starter Xaszatm
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I don't know if backslide is the right way to frame it, the real core of all this frustration has been a constant this one's just hitting on some of the real trouble spots like the capital D tribalism you tend to see from a lot of people
I mean, you have people straight up using Tweets from victims talking about completely unrelated issues in an attempt to discredit them, and getting away with it without so much as a slap on the wrist. It's definitely slid back in a lot of ways
I'm not saying the actions haven't slid back but the core of those actions and the general frustration has been constant and that just manifests itself in different ways. I'm uncomfortable with the notion that this wasn't always here, it's just manifesting itself differently because it involves the capital D nominee
I don't know, "dismissing concerns of marginalized groups" had been a pretty consistent reason for banning people in the past, and that's what's happening widespread with little action right now.
of course, that's not what I'm saying. I can be not great with explaining myself but also don't know how to say it any other way. I think the core of the frustrations is constant (that's why these kinds of issues tend to consistently pop up regarding different groups and different contexts) even if we're seeing inconsistency with action. like, is there any question that this situation would be handled completely different if it didn't involve joe biden? that's more what I mean. the problems today were the problems yesterday we're just seeing it play out different because this specific situation is bringing to light a problem area that needs addressing. why that inconsistency exists and proliferates.
I think there is truth in both of these positions, honestly. ERA was never particularly good at handling and assigning consequences in regards to sexual assault/victims/dismissing concerns/blaming, but what we've seen in the last 3 weeks is a tectonic shift even from that.
That other thread has been allowed to get way too toxic. At the bare minimum conspiracy theories and calling victims "privileged" need to be met with some kind of resistance by moderation. It cannot be allowed to just be open season to dismiss and insult victims of sexual assault, just because the broader political battle lines have been drawn up.
I really love this community, and there is a lot of good on this forum overall, but allowing this kind of behavior to go on without some kind of formal statement is just allowing toxicity to run rampant.
I really love this community, and there is a lot of good on this forum overall, but allowing this kind of behavior to go on without some kind of formal statement is just allowing toxicity to run rampant.
I think they're too soft in banning in general and I think it stems with them wanting to give people multiple chances to change their ways despite being people banned multiple times for repeat offences.
I don't think this squares with the selective nature in who gets those chances, who doesn't, and why
Well I don't know what they talk about when they decide bans, but I've seen people banned for lengthily periods of times cause they were previously banned for same shit in the past like, dismissing racism / sexism/ etc.
I feel like this election cycle is going to be a horrible time for this forum, for a multitude of reasons.
For intentionally being an asshole to a marginalized group I would expect one maybe extra chance and that's it.
Sometimes the infractions are very minor. I've seen lengthy bans for just slight insensitivity. Two instances of slight insensitivity wouldn't really justify a permanent ban imo, especially when people are bound to accidentally be insensitive to marginalized groups from time to time.
For intentionally being an asshole to a marginalized group I would expect one maybe extra chance and that's it.
Sophia made a good post here if anyone is interested: https://www.resetera.com/threads/be...-‘irresponsible’.185016/page-29#post-31528638
I'm very confused by how that thread kept going for about 12+ hours longer than it felt it should have. I know the staff is probably stretched pretty thin right now, but I don't know if people would have felt all that bad about a temporary lock being for a while longer than normal. Granted, it could just mean things spilling right over to this thread and others instead during that time, but still.
That happened within that timeframe anyway and is still happening in other threads as we speak lol.
The best part about all of this is if this were a republican we were dealing with, all of the victim blaming of Reade, not-so-subtle shaming of those who can't bring themselves to vote for Biden, and a general downplaying of his sketchy history would be met with a zero tolerance policy on here. But, hey, because he's 'our' guy, the mods are letting it fly. Not even a slap on the wrist for some seriously disgusting shit I've seen posted on this site over the last few weeks, but I have been seeing bans for victims who dared to push back against it. Era really has lost the plot on what it was meant to stand for when we abandoned Gaf.
I went back and read through the thread from when Christine Blasey Ford first went public with her accusation just to make sure I wasn't going crazy about how this site reacted, and it's amazing to see certain users who offered Ford their unconditional support are now the ones hemming and hawing about Reade's accusation. Believing women truly is conditional based on which party the accused belongs to. I hope Biden was worth destroying the MeToo movement over, because the republicans are watching and they will use this as proof of our hypocrisy. It truly is fun watching us sexual assault victims lose what little voice we had to fight back against the powerful people who hurt us, because we will never be taken seriously again. We were just a prop for the democratic party to throw away when we were no longer of use, and now we're suppose to just smile and vote for their rapist after this cruel, backhanded betrayal. It didn't, and doesn't have to be Biden, but the dems have shown their true colors and will do nothing. They will continue to do everything in their power to call Reade a liar, bury her story, ignore the rest of Biden's questionable history, and shame victims for votes, and that will be it. Repubs are evil, but the dems most certainly are the lesser evil and seem to have no desire to aspire to be better than that. How can you moralize about Trump's behavior but then turn around and make excuses for Biden? We've known for literally decades about his 'touchy' behavior, this is not a new thing. Why can't we do better than the GOP? It's disgusting.
I went back and read through the thread from when Christine Blasey Ford first went public with her accusation just to make sure I wasn't going crazy about how this site reacted, and it's amazing to see certain users who offered Ford their unconditional support are now the ones hemming and hawing about Reade's accusation. Believing women truly is conditional based on which party the accused belongs to. I hope Biden was worth destroying the MeToo movement over, because the republicans are watching and they will use this as proof of our hypocrisy. It truly is fun watching us sexual assault victims lose what little voice we had to fight back against the powerful people who hurt us, because we will never be taken seriously again. We were just a prop for the democratic party to throw away when we were no longer of use, and now we're suppose to just smile and vote for their rapist after this cruel, backhanded betrayal. It didn't, and doesn't have to be Biden, but the dems have shown their true colors and will do nothing. They will continue to do everything in their power to call Reade a liar, bury her story, ignore the rest of Biden's questionable history, and shame victims for votes, and that will be it. Repubs are evil, but the dems most certainly are the lesser evil and seem to have no desire to aspire to be better than that. How can you moralize about Trump's behavior but then turn around and make excuses for Biden? We've known for literally decades about his 'touchy' behavior, this is not a new thing. Why can't we do better than the GOP? It's disgusting.
Yeah, I agree with you completely. It was always a fear of mine that everyone would regress as #MeToo was further and further in the past but seeing the blatant hypocrisy really just drives home how little they care about us and what we've been through. I wish I knew a way forward but I feel like we'll be back to pre MeToo in full before long
Honestly I think this post sucks and basically says they will be sitting on their hands.
I tend to stay away from topics like these because I really dislike potentially upsetting people, but I just want to chime in with my thoughts (this reply largely pushed me to reply).
Everyone makes mistakes, even (perhaps especially) people that stand strongly for something. We've all made bad arguments due to bias, misinformation, ignoring inconvenient facts, etc. It's a human thing to do. What separates shitheads from good people is one's willingness to truly listen and consider where someone's coming from. This community obviously has its biases, but for the most part I think the people here are good people. Just accept that people have bad takes right now due to bias and understand that their heart is likely in the same place as yours.
That said, this isn't a call to accept their arguments as valid, it's a call to understand that most of these people aren't ultimately coming from a place of hating victims, it's coming from a strong desire to "get trump out of office, no matter what". I personally have very mixed feelings on that mantra (being forced to pick between a mush for brains and a shit for brains is a shitty situation), but I suppose that's beside the point.
That may have been understandable for a brief time weeks ago, but victims have done way more than should have ever been asked of them to make it clear where they're coming from. It's been too long to give the benefit of the doubt on repeating the same lines about the stakes and how bad Trump is and the consequences of not voting and lesser of two evils, not counting the insinuations that victims not wanting to vote for Biden will get Trump reelected and the outright conspiracy theories about Tara Reade.
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It was interesting to see the 'we cant have 4 more years of a rapist as President' turn to 'I just want Trump out, if you are not voting Biden then you are helping Trump and bla bla bla it's all your fault!'. I've seen many people downplaying "the incidents" (as they call it)...
Btw, the Dems will be awarded a medal of incompetence once they lose this election again, after the biggest crisis in a century (or more, who knows).
Btw, the Dems will be awarded a medal of incompetence once they lose this election again, after the biggest crisis in a century (or more, who knows).
User Banned (2 weeks): hostility
Also that mod post is garbage.
This has almost never happened! The vast majority of people that are angry about this haven't said that the mere act of voting for Biden makes you any of those things, and it's pretty telling of the priorities of the mod teams that this was even mentioned
This has almost never happened! The vast majority of people that are angry about this haven't said that the mere act of voting for Biden makes you any of those things, and it's pretty telling of the priorities of the mod teams that this was even mentioned
Good point. I have deliberately avoided discussions like those, so I wasn't aware of how people were engaging with these arguments. I'll just take your word for it that people have been less than receptive.
Agreed, but what is there to do about it when reports don't get responses and staff largely avoid talking to anyone bothered by this in these threads.
Seriously, wtf is this, mods? We have-
www.resetera.com
-posts like these-
www.resetera.com
-downplaying a sexual assault allegation, victim blaming, calling her a liar, and making up Russia conspiracies about her while multiple posters cheer it on, and it's allowed without even a slap on the wrist. We know for a goddamn fact that if these posts were about Ford and her accusation against Kavanaugh, or just about any republican with an accusation against them, posts like these would be grounds for a perm without a second thought.
On the other hand, we have you banning sexual assault victims-
www.resetera.com
-for daring to push back even slightly-
www.resetera.com
-because 'hostility' while you allow your site to become increasing hostile and difficult to use with all of the victim blaming, voter shaming, and rape apologia that you're letting fly because it's 'your guy' who's accused now. Maybe practice what you fucking preach and come down on victim blamers going to bat for Biden the same way you would for anyone who would excuse sexual assault allegations against a republican.
Bernie Sanders says opposing Biden is ‘irresponsible’
I'm not gonna say it should be ban worthy, but for people who feel like they are being gaslighted by all the endorsement rollouts and public proclamations of how great a person and how darn likable a rapist is, to then see threads on here with people posting Avengers memes and shit hyping him up...
www.resetera.com
-posts like these-
US PoliEra 2020 |OT5| Guidance recommends quarantining PoliERA
Well goddamnit. Everyone quoting him does defeat the purpose of the ignore function. So, fuck it. I'll give you the attention you desperately crave and reward your obvious baiting. Rejoice! You can scream about it in your discord while furiously reporting me and indignantly respond with...
www.resetera.com
-downplaying a sexual assault allegation, victim blaming, calling her a liar, and making up Russia conspiracies about her while multiple posters cheer it on, and it's allowed without even a slap on the wrist. We know for a goddamn fact that if these posts were about Ford and her accusation against Kavanaugh, or just about any republican with an accusation against them, posts like these would be grounds for a perm without a second thought.
On the other hand, we have you banning sexual assault victims-
Bernie Sanders says opposing Biden is ‘irresponsible’
It doesn't take much mental faculty to appreciate that when you come into an existing conversation that includes people not wanting to vote because of those reasons and dismissing people not voting as being moronic and not worthy of respect, it includes those people. Even when explicitly...
www.resetera.com
-for daring to push back even slightly-
The Intercept: Time’s Up Said It Could Not Fund a #MeToo Allegation Against Joe Biden, Citing Its Nonprofit Status and His Presidential Run
VOX just picked it up. https://www.vox.com/2020/3/27/21195935/joe-biden-sexual-assault-allegation
www.resetera.com
-because 'hostility' while you allow your site to become increasing hostile and difficult to use with all of the victim blaming, voter shaming, and rape apologia that you're letting fly because it's 'your guy' who's accused now. Maybe practice what you fucking preach and come down on victim blamers going to bat for Biden the same way you would for anyone who would excuse sexual assault allegations against a republican.
Nothing indicates we're losing this election.
If anything Biden is a stronger candidate than we think
The guy sleepwalked his way into beating the most loved politician in the country.
And now Trump has proven he's an idiot and incapable of the job.
before there were people willing to take a chance on him cause they hated Clinton.
now the alternative is Biden, who really is just "Generic D", and those people will jump back to the democrats.
trump won because of Obama -> Trump voters. And Biden's got those in the bag
Sad to say this but always thought the idea this was going to be some sanctuary and opposite of that place was laughable. This is the real world and the internet you get what you get. I think some people just need to avoid certain conversations as trying to make a point on an Internet forum and have a common sense debate just never seems to happen.
do we have to do this in this thread lmao
Seriously, wtf is this, mods? We have-
Bernie Sanders says opposing Biden is ‘irresponsible’
I'm not gonna say it should be ban worthy, but for people who feel like they are being gaslighted by all the endorsement rollouts and public proclamations of how great a person and how darn likable a rapist is, to then see threads on here with people posting Avengers memes and shit hyping him up...
-posts like these-
US PoliEra 2020 |OT5| Guidance recommends quarantining PoliERA
Well goddamnit. Everyone quoting him does defeat the purpose of the ignore function. So, fuck it. I'll give you the attention you desperately crave and reward your obvious baiting. Rejoice! You can scream about it in your discord while furiously reporting me and indignantly respond with...
-downplaying a sexual assault allegation, victim blaming, calling her a liar, and making up Russia conspiracies about her while multiple posters cheer it on, and it's allowed without even a slap on the wrist. We know for a goddamn fact that if these posts were about Ford and her accusation against Kavanaugh, or just about any republican with an accusation against them, posts like these would be grounds for a perm without a second thought.
On the other hand, we have you banning sexual assault victims-
Bernie Sanders says opposing Biden is ‘irresponsible’
It doesn't take much mental faculty to appreciate that when you come into an existing conversation that includes people not wanting to vote because of those reasons and dismissing people not voting as being moronic and not worthy of respect, it includes those people. Even when explicitly...
-for daring to push back even slightly-
The Intercept: Time’s Up Said It Could Not Fund a #MeToo Allegation Against Joe Biden, Citing Its Nonprofit Status and His Presidential Run
VOX just picked it up. https://www.vox.com/2020/3/27/21195935/joe-biden-sexual-assault-allegation
-because 'hostility' while you allow your site to become increasing hostile and difficult to use with all of the victim blaming, voter shaming, and rape apologia that you're letting fly because it's 'your guy' who's accused now. Maybe practice what you fucking preach and come down on victim blamers going to bat for Biden the same way you would for anyone who would excuse sexual assault allegations against a republican.
the post gloating about having surfinn on ignore for daring to speak out about a fucking rape allegation against the democratic nominee for president is one of the most repulsive things I've read recently
what an absolute failure of action on this forum's part
There was a mod response :/
We need to have a talk on how we treat sexual assault victims on this site
This should be clarified. No moderator is allowed to perm on the spot just like that, even when it may seem blatantly obvious that a perm is the appropriate course of action. The offending post(s) must be reviewed by the available team and a quick turnaround on a perm must be approved by...
www.resetera.com
There was a mod response :/
I asked if this is the way I can expect to be treated by staff, and if so, I'll just close my account. Never heard backWe need to have a talk on how we treat sexual assault victims on this site
This should be clarified. No moderator is allowed to perm on the spot just like that, even when it may seem blatantly obvious that a perm is the appropriate course of action. The offending post(s) must be reviewed by the available team and a quick turnaround on a perm must be approved by...
jesus, I hadn't seen that
disgusting. they called you a fucking hall monitor
I don't even know where to begin with all that bullshit, what the hell is happening on this site?
Seriously, wtf is this, mods? We have-
Bernie Sanders says opposing Biden is ‘irresponsible’
I'm not gonna say it should be ban worthy, but for people who feel like they are being gaslighted by all the endorsement rollouts and public proclamations of how great a person and how darn likable a rapist is, to then see threads on here with people posting Avengers memes and shit hyping him up...
-posts like these-
US PoliEra 2020 |OT5| Guidance recommends quarantining PoliERA
Well goddamnit. Everyone quoting him does defeat the purpose of the ignore function. So, fuck it. I'll give you the attention you desperately crave and reward your obvious baiting. Rejoice! You can scream about it in your discord while furiously reporting me and indignantly respond with...
-downplaying a sexual assault allegation, victim blaming, calling her a liar, and making up Russia conspiracies about her while multiple posters cheer it on, and it's allowed without even a slap on the wrist. We know for a goddamn fact that if these posts were about Ford and her accusation against Kavanaugh, or just about any republican with an accusation against them, posts like these would be grounds for a perm without a second thought.
On the other hand, we have you banning sexual assault victims-
Bernie Sanders says opposing Biden is ‘irresponsible’
It doesn't take much mental faculty to appreciate that when you come into an existing conversation that includes people not wanting to vote because of those reasons and dismissing people not voting as being moronic and not worthy of respect, it includes those people. Even when explicitly...
-for daring to push back even slightly-
The Intercept: Time’s Up Said It Could Not Fund a #MeToo Allegation Against Joe Biden, Citing Its Nonprofit Status and His Presidential Run
VOX just picked it up. https://www.vox.com/2020/3/27/21195935/joe-biden-sexual-assault-allegation
-because 'hostility' while you allow your site to become increasing hostile and difficult to use with all of the victim blaming, voter shaming, and rape apologia that you're letting fly because it's 'your guy' who's accused now. Maybe practice what you fucking preach and come down on victim blamers going to bat for Biden the same way you would for anyone who would excuse sexual assault allegations against a republican.
Oh, hello. If you're publicly asking for my ban, at least @ me.
It seems that this thread's primary purpose has now been turned into publicly whining about mods and shit on other users you don't agree with. Something that has become very popular ever since it was shown to be so effective half a year ago - and mods sadly have not discouraged it, so people haven't stopped doing it.
As for my posts (and I realise starting this discussion here is futile), I stand by them. I made it very clear (in both posts you quoted) how important it is to encourage victims to come forward. To be receptive of what they have to say. To not dismiss them out of hand. And, that you can in fact do this while not immediately burning the accused at a witch trial. Many people, including victims, agreed with what I said. I do not believe I was being dismissive of victims, and that certainly was not the intent. I'll leave it at that.
Oh fucking really? You accused people of bringing this up of being bad faith actors three times in that post, you accused a victim of lying for political gain because she tweeted at the white house, and completely dismissed any corroborating evidence that she had. You aren't being just dismissive of victims, you're calling us liars and specifically calling Bidens accuser a liar based on bulletin that is completely unrelated.
You are literally why victims don't come forward.
Fucking classy. We totally needed you to come in here and derail a thread like this to talk about electability. It's so nice to know that everything is fine just so long as our rapist is sleep walking to the finish line. Dems can't be assed to care that they're slapping sexual assault victims across the face by making it come down to two pussy grabbers while still trying to pretend like they actually cared about believing women. Given how much you guys have been browbeating us about not wanting to vote for him, one might be made to think that he's not as amazing of a candidate as you make him out to be. You guys are acting like you need every vote you can get, and you don't care who you have to hurt and shame to 'sleepwalk' him across the finish line. Lesser of evils every step of the goddamn way.
So, yeah, go. Fuck off back to France, you douche canoe.
...why? why are you doing this, here of all places?
no. actually, i'm going to try to reach out to you, because i'm not sure if you understand. this isn't a game. it's not realpolitik. it's not forum stuff. for all the victims here, this is real life. this is the pain we have to experience, every single day. the words you type can cause real pain to us. it can open old wounds. it can re-traumatize. it does damage, mental and emotional.
the post you wrote in that endorsement thread made my anxiety levels shoot up to the peak. it triggered my fight or flight. it almost made me cry. it reminded me of all the times i was told to shut up and sit down, because i'm acting in 'bad faith'. of all the gaslighting and deflecting. of all the DARVOing. that's the truth.
do i think you're doing this on purpose? no. if i thought that, i wouldn't even try to reach out to you. but i don't think you are. i think there's a disconnect here. so i'm pleading with you -- please, please understand. this is not a game. this is not a debate. this hurts people.
Can you explain how this:
is somehow not inherently dismissive?
Frankly, I can at least vaguely understand the overall point of trying to clarify why a comparison to Ford is not 100% accurate - even if I think you're going about it poorly, doing it in places where it is doing more harm than good as the posts above clearly show, bringing weird Russia conspiracies into it, and what you're describing is not stuff that the average person dismissing the claims actually knows or cares about so it doesn't matter anyway!
But accusing other users of lying because they want Trump to win is ridiculous and should have been moderated in some fashion to begin with, regardless of anything else in your post.
(EDIT: Changed some wording.)
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Also holy shit I just read that second post of yours. You directly call her a Russian shill and making up the accusation for money because she opened a PayPal account. What the fuck is wrong with you and why do the mods let people say this now?
I'm new here, but it's clearly that there's a big speech of hate towards some of the celebs/politics happening here in this forum, it's like only 1 side matters and that scares me a lot.
The lesson time and time again here is you can have pretty rotten posts filled with victim blaming and other awful things as long as you are polite in tone. "Why so angry and upset? Clearly you are being irrational. Here is my well reasoned post where i tear down a rape victim and label anyone who cares as politically motIvated. I once again must stress that i do believe women but..."
Belong to a minority/victimized group that is being actively shit on and demeaned and you express anger in your response? You'll get warned pretty quickly for being hostile. Decorum is all that matters.
Belong to a minority/victimized group that is being actively shit on and demeaned and you express anger in your response? You'll get warned pretty quickly for being hostile. Decorum is all that matters.
fuckin lol. I stopped reading the post at that part. Absolute utter garbage, that is just disgraceful.
I've seen garbage like that way too often around this site and I'm sick of it. "Oh shit our nominee is accused of rape."
"Let's conspiracy theory our way out of this one."
Just because you preface and or end your post with it's important to "encourage victims to come forward", "let's not dismiss this out of hand" doesn't mean almost every other part of your posts listed don't directly contradict those positions.
I don't like that this thread exists, I don't like that I feel like it's one of the few places left to post without being harassed or shamed for speaking out, or that content has to be highlighted in this way.
But that's where we are. You're not the victim here, maybe self reflect on some of the vile things you have said that have hurt others and contributed to keeping them in the dark.
User banned (1 week): inappropriate and inflammatory comparison regarding sexual assault, personal attacks
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