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Deleted member 45211

User requested account closure
Banned
Jun 19, 2018
492
Thanks to everyone in the thread for sharing. This must be a really hard subject to discuss.

I voted blue down the line in 2018, both locally and nationally, cause there weren't any rapists on the ballot.
I had a discussion about this with another poster recently, and I'm not trying to be provocative but just asking honestly: do you really think that's true? Or are you talking about known rapists?
 

Deleted member 2085

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,330
You know, after my own experience with family members ignoring my years of sexual abuse because acknowledging it would be inconvenient for them, I really shouldn't be surprised by the way a huge portion of this forum has acted. It just confirms my beliefs that humans are ultimately selfish.

I would have much less hatred for the people furiously advocating for Biden and shaming anyone who chooses not to vote for him, if they had put forth any small amount of effort to prevent him from being the nominee. Even just posting the articles on social media to try to get them trending. Instead, they acted like Biden was a forgone conclusion and began shaming rape and sexual abuse victims for not "taking one for the team" while Bernie was still in the fucking race. Because, to them, rape victims aren't worth expending even the smallest amount of energy on. Or worse, they actively preferred the rapist over his competition (which is obviously the case for several of these people).

Between the Michael Jackson threads, the Kobe threads, and now the Biden threads, I've become resigned to the fact that most of the "allies" here only care about victims when it props up their own ego. They're happy to ignore victims' suffering as soon as it gets in the way of their tribalism, their hero worship, their self-professed moral superiority, or their entertainment. There's a shit ton of posters on this forum who are guilty of enabling rape culture, but they'd never fucking acknowledge it about themselves. Even more obnoxious is the fact that several of the more vocal people actually advocating for victims in these recent threads are currently banned.

I do want to take a moment to acknowledge those who have been advocating for victims in all these threads. It's nice to know that some truly empathetic people are here. Thank you.
Well said.
 

King Kingo

Banned
Dec 3, 2019
7,656
Sorry, off-topic, but is being sexually abused as a child considered sexual assault?

Always unsure to give my opinion when it comes to these topics since I don't know if I'm considered a victim of sexual assault or if abuse is a different category.

Holy... yes. That's the worst sort of sexual abuse to go through. The gravity of the assault doesn't hit you until you realise how your body was manipulated for the gratification for someone who should know better.

I'm sorry you experienced that, you never deserved that. Please know that there are people here including me that are open to listening to you.
 

floridaguy954

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,631
Same thing I said in the last one. I think every sexual assault survivor knows there is a difference between Trump and Biden being elected. This does not need to be stated.

But they don't need to be lectured about it, they don't need to hear about how it is the "lesser of two evils", how it is 4 more years and their fault if they don't. And whatever dog shit excuse comes up to protect him and push guilt on to others.
This is exactly how I feel about this situation, well said.
 

Orb

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,465
USA
Saying something like "if you don't vote for Biden you are helping Trump" should be an immediate temp ban
 

Pixieking

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,956
Saying something like "if you don't vote for Biden you are helping Trump" should be an immediate temp ban

But... You are.

Who Helped Trump Most in the 2016 Presidential Election? Nonvoters, Pew Study Says


When it comes to the Donald Trump presidency, nonvoters are just as responsible as verified 2016 voters for the presidential election results, according to a new study from the Pew Research Center.

The study notes an important statistic: four in 10 Americans who were eligible to vote did not do so in 2016. And by taking the unique (and uniquely valuable) step of validating those who claimed they voted, Pew researchers were able to determine who actually voted and who did not. Breaking out these categories into hard data makes it clear: Nonvoters in 2016 had just as much to do with establishing the Trump presidency as actual voters.

Edit: Open in a private tab to avoid the paywall

Links in that article a bit skew-iff, so...

www.people-press.org

An examination of the 2016 electorate, based on validated voters

One of the biggest challenges facing those who seek to understand U.S. elections is establishing an accurate portrait of the American electorate and the

Among nonvoters who hold a set of political values with a distinct ideological orientation, those with generally liberal values (30% of all nonvoters) considerably outnumbered those with generally conservative values (18%).
 

Deleted member 5666

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,753
Saying something like "if you don't vote for Biden you are helping Trump" should be an immediate temp ban
It sucks and isn't fair but its sadly how our two-party electoral system works. Within swing states that is. Doing so in like California or New York doesn't have an effect but say MI, WI, PA, NC, AZ, FL, MN, etc it does. I do wish it was like Canada or the UK where we had a multi-party parliamentary system.

Let's take a random swing state for example:
Biden wins 100x votes.
Trump wins 101x votes.
2x voters who otherwise vote down ballot Democrat abstain voting Biden because of one reason or another even though they lean Democrat.

If they didn't abstain Trump would have lost the state.

People shouldn't bully or scream at non-voters because that won't work to convince them to vote against Trump. *ESPECIALLY* to sexual assault victims. It will benefit no one to insult them for not planning to vote against Trump. As that tactic won't convince them to vote against Trump.

Those of us who want to defeat Trump need to think better about how we work to convince people to vote against Trump without treating those not yet on our side poorly or cruelly because yelling at them to vote against Trump isn't working and won't work.

However to your point, it would be factually correct to say in a swing state a non-vote/third party vote from someone who otherwise leans Democrat would be an effective net +1 for Trump given how our electoral system works. But there will hopefully be better and less harsh ways to explain that without bullying as we get closer to November. So I am not sure how you could properly police that.
 
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Deleted member 18857

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,083
I stay away from any US politics thread since this thing has surfaced for this very reason. I already felt fortunate not being a US citizen since 2016, and I really didn't think the feeling would intensify this year, but here we are.

My social-distancingly-adequate hugs to all the victims in the US. I feel for you all.
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,487
I always come back to this point and it's got people here shouting me down but it is the responsibility of the parties to get people to vote for them. That's their whole fucking point of existance. They need to produce a candidate that people want to vote for. If they can't do that then it is on no one but them.

Voting is a right that people can choose to exercise should they wish. If victims of sexual assault do not wish to vote for a fucking rapist I do not understand how people are suddenly full on surprised Pikachu. Are the people doing this gaslighting shit fucking daft?

End of day, no one has the right to tell victims of abuse how to feel or how they must act in the face of abusers. Like give your head a shake and fucking stop doing this bullshit. End of story.
 

DickGrayson

Alt Account
Member
Jan 30, 2020
941
We're dealing with two very real and very harmful wounds when we're talking specifically about voting Trump out of office. Biden has been credibly accused of sexual assault so of course victims will feel very reticent to vote for him (and rightfully so)... Trump has been victimizing entire communities in America on a daily basis so of course victims will feel an urgent need to remove him from power (and rightfully so). My family has been targeted by racists who feel emboldened because of Trump's rise to power and his near constant attacks on minorities. My wife is giving birth to a boy who may have to grow up in a country that is going to be forever fused to the hateful rhetoric of white nationalism if Trump gets another 4 years in office. This is, for us, a do or die kind of moment. We're both victims of sexual assault, and for us the choice has never been easier.

We're living a nightmare, even more so than before his presidency (which was bad enough).

So when people wail and gnash their teeth at the thought of NOT voting against Trump, it's because for some their ability to continue living, or for their kids to continue living, seems to depend on removing this man from office... and so yes, sometimes the very real pain of others can be obscured by their own very real pain.

We are all going to have to be patient, and caring, and kind to each other... because we need everyone to get through this together...

Obviously any gaslighting or victim blaming needs to be squashed, but if someone lashes out at another because they choose not to vote for Biden, please try to remember what they might be going through during these very difficult times.
 

RockGun90

Member
Jul 28, 2018
438
We're dealing with two very real and very harmful wounds when we're talking specifically about voting Trump out of office. Biden has been credibly accused of sexual assault so of course victims will feel very reticent to vote for him (and rightfully so)... Trump has been victimizing entire communities in America on a daily basis so of course victims will feel an urgent need to remove him from power (and rightfully so). My family has been targeted by racists who feel emboldened because of Trump's rise to power and his near constant attacks on minorities. My wife is giving birth to a boy who may have to grow up in a country that is going to be forever fused to the hateful rhetoric of white nationalism if Trump gets another 4 years in office. This is, for us, a do or die kind of moment. We're both victims of sexual assault, and for us the choice has never been easier.

We're living a nightmare, even more so than before his presidency (which was bad enough).

So when people wail and gnash their teeth at the thought of NOT voting against Trump, it's because for some their ability to continue living, or for their kids to continue living, seems to depend on removing this man from office... and so yes, sometimes the very real pain of others can be obscured by their own very real pain.

We are all going to have to be patient, and caring, and kind to each other... because we need everyone to get through this together...

Obviously any gaslighting or victim blaming needs to be squashed, but if someone lashes out at another because they choose not to vote for Biden, please try to remember what they might be going through during these very difficult times.
America has always been this country. The only difference now is that Trump has shown them that they dont need to hide anymore. They can do it out in the open. That's not gonna go away once Trump is out of office and suggesting otherwise is only going to lead to disappointment.
 

DickGrayson

Alt Account
Member
Jan 30, 2020
941
America has always been this country. The only difference now is that Trump has shown them that they dont need to hide anymore. They can do it out in the open. That's not gonna go away once Trump is out of office and suggesting otherwise is only going to lead to disappointment.

Nobody is claiming that voting Trump out is going to magically fix America, but we're bleeding out here and another 4 years of Trump feels like it will kill us. We can triage this all day but the result will be the same, Trump (for some of us) is priority #1.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,948
America has always been this country. The only difference now is that Trump has shown them that they dont need to hide anymore. They can do it out in the open. That's not gonna go away once Trump is out of office and suggesting otherwise is only going to lead to disappointment.

And you're fooling yourself if you think things can't keep getting worse. We can always go back to segregation, public lynchings, full on slavery, etc. Every day Trump stays in power is another day closer to these types of realities. Progress has been made, and Republicans are determined to undo it.
 

DickGrayson

Alt Account
Member
Jan 30, 2020
941
I was told by an administrator telling someone to suck your dick because you didn't like the response from them is A-ok. This site has lost the plot unfortunately.

I mean, at a certain point, we need to face the reality that telling someone to suck your dick because you didn't like the response from them may be the release valve that's needed to keep from further passive aggressive escalation.

I'd personally refrain from it, but I wouldn't begrudge anyone who spit invective at me right now.
 

Audioboxer

Banned
Nov 14, 2019
2,943
I wouldn't say full right wing per se, but in some of the takes regarding anime tiddies/"actually a 3000 year old dragon" and on corporations treating customers and overreaching there are definitely a lot of posts that take a right wing position.

The left can have paedophiles and creeps too. Those are just... shitty views. In a sense they are pretty apolitical and just about whether the person lusts for children/young girls.

Pretty off-topic correction to make, but I think it's important for all survivors not to politicise abuse incorrectly. From the point of view making it appear to rape or being a paedophile, is just a right-wing position. Many abused will have been abused from people all of walks of life.

Lots of those views skirting with nonsense like that are rampant in geek/anime communities. Self-policing is often poor and many people, like within a lot of hobbies, are crazily defensive of said hobby.

As for general corporate worshipping, again, that can be apolitical. Even although many on the left criticise crony-capitalism, the excitement around a new "toy" sets off many.

I don't think any of that is inherently saying Era tilts right-wing. Its an enthusiast gaming forum and there is always going to be a lot of childish shit or uber fanboyism. I think many of the staff will have an easier role banning takes on paedophilia than they have trying to decipher at times if someone is abusing victims of rape due to downplaying their struggles. It should be easy in principle to weed out bad faith acting, but when you're trying to moderate 40,000 people, it's not always easy. Though posts like this are obviously blatant - https://www.resetera.com/threads/we...ult-victims-on-this-site.181172/post-30832385

Then again topics like this should be read and thought about. There has to be credible reasons why OP and others feel how they do.
 
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Froli

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,653
Philippines
Either Trump or Biden wins, it feels like this will tear the site apart

Biden wins = You voted a creepy president <with video evidence of him touching girls inappropriately> with rape allegations
Trump Wins = The same old lying, inept, evil, racist piece of shit
 

Deleted member 55966

User requested account closure
Banned
Apr 15, 2019
1,231
I mean, at a certain point, we need to face the reality that telling someone to suck your dick because you didn't like the response from them may be the release valve that's needed to keep from further passive aggressive escalation.

I'd personally refrain from it, but I wouldn't begrudge anyone who spit invective at me right now.
Why can't telling someone you're done with the conversation and putting your phone down be a viable option? I get what you're saying about the hurt Trump has caused to communities is real and incredibly damaging, but saying you can go off on another individual hurting in a different way doesn't make the problem better. It just pushes the vitriol you're feeling onto another person that might not be able to handle it.
 
Sep 14, 2019
3,028
Holy... yes. That's the worst sort of sexual abuse to go through. The gravity of the assault doesn't hit you until you realise how your body was manipulated for the gratification for someone who should know better.

I'm sorry you experienced that, you never deserved that. Please know that there are people here including me that are open to listening to you.

Thanks. I used to think in high school I was one of the "lucky ones" that didn't get affected by it when one becomes older. Boy, was I wrong...
 

King Kingo

Banned
Dec 3, 2019
7,656
Thanks. I used to think in high school I was one of the "lucky ones" that didn't get affected by it when one becomes older. Boy, was I wrong...

And that's how sexual predators strike. They get young and impressionable people and give them this false sense of social fulfilment because minors are easily influenced to have validation as it's a crux of their social identity. Female predators get away with it more often than their male counterpart because it opposes the functionalism characteristics of a woman being a caretaker and the emotionally considerate sex.

It doesn't help that there's disgusting men on the internet who project their sexual fantasy onto victims and say "oh, I wish that happened to me".
 

MIMIC

Member
Dec 18, 2017
8,316

Then any statement that says that and also fails to acknowledge that Biden is a rapist should result in a ban. Two way street.

Let's be real: the statement is being used to bully someone into voting. Period. But if you're going to shine a light on someone for apparently "helping Trump" then a light should be shown back at you for tolerating sexual assault.

"If you don't vote for Biden the rapist then you are helping Trump" would be OK.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,489
Thanks. I used to think in high school I was one of the "lucky ones" that didn't get affected by it when one becomes older. Boy, was I wrong...

I feel this. I got raped twice while I was in school and blanked the events out of my brain for nearly fourteen years, but when I finally remembered what happened to me after #MeToo flared up, it explained SO MUCH about my stunted sexual development and my tendency to freeze up whenever people got close to me or touched me without consent. Like pretty much every neurosis and hangup I have about physical contact that I picked up over the past ~20 years can be traced back to that one moment.
 
Sep 14, 2019
3,028
It doesn't help that there's disgusting men on the internet who project their sexual fantasy onto victims and say "oh, I wish that happened to me".

Yes! Exactly! I've talked to guys about this and they end up getting turned on by the experience! "I wish I had a neighbor like that growing up..." Like, dude... I'm trying to talk about a traumatic experience that has fucked me over, especially during my adult years... Can you keep your dick out of this?

I have the same issue when I talk to people about my sexual addiction. Some people try to instigate it, wanting me to get into detail about it for their sexual gratification.


I feel this. I got raped twice while I was in school and blanked the events out of my brain for nearly fourteen years, but when I finally remembered what happened to me after #MeToo flared up, it explained SO MUCH about my stunted sexual development and my tendency to freeze up whenever people got close to me or touched me without consent. Like pretty much every neurosis and hangup I have about physical contact that I picked up over the past ~20 years can be traced back to that one moment.

And this too! I'm so sorry you've gone through this...

I can't even hug my immediate family because I get so uncomfortable being touched, despite them never doing anything inappropriate to me. It's all the abuse. My sex addiction. My paranoia and fear that if I have a child, I can't trust anyone because they might do something to them. I'm so screwed up and I hate it.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,489
And this too! I'm so sorry you've gone through this...

I can't even hug my immediate family because I get so uncomfortable being touched, despite them never doing anything inappropriate to me. It's all the abuse. My sex addiction. My paranoia and fear that if I have a child, I can't trust anyone because they might do something to them. I'm so screwed up and I hate it.

It sucks. Especially being aware of what happened and knowing how much damage it did. On the (small) plus side, my understanding of the situation helped me identify these toxic behaviors I've bred within myself and I'm working to get past them. It's a process, though. A long process.
 

FantaSoda

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,992
I think the mods do a great job moderating here. Nothing is perfect and there are things that could be improved but comparing this place to NeoGAF or saying that it is veering "Pro-Trump" feels so hyperbolic it is hard to take it seriously.
 
Apr 21, 2018
6,969
The whole voting Biden has caused a dilemma everywhere I look. I don't want to support or vote for a rapist, but Trump being president is literally dangerous for people, and he incited violence and racism.

It's a shitty situation and a tough conversation to have, but I don't blame anyone for not voting.
 

Deleted member 4532

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,936
I agree OP. Rather than taking their anger out on the democratic party for ACTIVELY brushing/censoring Biden's rape, they want to go all in on this shitty party even if it means ignoring voices around them. They've shown their true colors as neoliberals who don't give a fuck.

I'm done with the democrat party and any of its supporters excusing rape. Will be voting Green in November. Not picking between two racist rapist.
 
Sep 14, 2019
3,028
It sucks. Especially being aware of what happened and knowing how much damage it did. On the (small) plus side, my understanding of the situation helped me identify these toxic behaviors I've bred within myself and I'm working to get past them. It's a process, though. A long process.

That's very true. I was in therapy for over a year with my original therapist and she was a big help.

Small victories!
 

learning

Member
Jan 4, 2019
708
We're dealing with two very real and very harmful wounds when we're talking specifically about voting Trump out of office. Biden has been credibly accused of sexual assault so of course victims will feel very reticent to vote for him (and rightfully so)... Trump has been victimizing entire communities in America on a daily basis so of course victims will feel an urgent need to remove him from power (and rightfully so). My family has been targeted by racists who feel emboldened because of Trump's rise to power and his near constant attacks on minorities. My wife is giving birth to a boy who may have to grow up in a country that is going to be forever fused to the hateful rhetoric of white nationalism if Trump gets another 4 years in office. This is, for us, a do or die kind of moment. We're both victims of sexual assault, and for us the choice has never been easier.

We're living a nightmare, even more so than before his presidency (which was bad enough).

So when people wail and gnash their teeth at the thought of NOT voting against Trump, it's because for some their ability to continue living, or for their kids to continue living, seems to depend on removing this man from office... and so yes, sometimes the very real pain of others can be obscured by their own very real pain.

We are all going to have to be patient, and caring, and kind to each other... because we need everyone to get through this together...

Obviously any gaslighting or victim blaming needs to be squashed, but if someone lashes out at another because they choose not to vote for Biden, please try to remember what they might be going through during these very difficult times.
This is a very succinct summary. These are very difficult times and we need to work together in every way.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
Thanks. I used to think in high school I was one of the "lucky ones" that didn't get affected by it when one becomes older. Boy, was I wrong...
I think a lot of men who were abused, especially if it was grooming and not through force, feel that way at the time but then later they realize how much it has hurt them. There is a lot of denial around this subject for all victims, and society encourages and fosters this denial in Male victims in particular because it largely does not acknowledge Male victimization. I was in denial about the abuse I suffered being abuse for a long time.

I know you've reached out and talked before about personal things to me before, but if you want to talk about this as well I am open to it and I understand your pain, because I went through it as well.
 

RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,648
tenor.gif
 

CrocM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,587
I wonder if some of the downplaying of sexual assault comes from some of the frustration from a perceived equivalency to Trump as a threat to the outcome of the Presidential election.
I understand that Trump being re-elected would have some very real horrible consequences and some people are naturally afraid of that. I'm not excusing the behavior, just that I'm trying to understand where it comes from for some of these people.
That's definitely where it comes from. Downplaying sexual assault is wrong, though. Shaming people for not voting for Biden is wrong. But someone mentioned banning people who suggested not voting helps Trump, and I think that is wrong too. I think we can have that discussion, as its a really important one. I'm a survivor of sexual assault from when I was a young child, and I'd like a place to discuss it and hear what other people have to say. Shutting down the conversation is not the answer.
 

bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,888
I think the mods do a great job moderating here. Nothing is perfect and there are things that could be improved but comparing this place to NeoGAF or saying that it is veering "Pro-Trump" feels so hyperbolic it is hard to take it seriously.
I think it is pretty difficult to discuss certain things online.

Its ok to be crazy and stupid when you are talking about a video game or a movie, but this is a really sensitive topic that is also going to be filled with a lot of emotions. But unlike something dumb like a comic book movie or videogames this is something real to way too many people in this country and around the world.

I was pretty naive to how common sexual assault is in the United States until I went to law school. My criminal law professor broke down the statistics and it was just shocking to hear not just how common sexual assault it, but how rarely it is reported and how hard it is to get a conviction. Now being a father to a daughter I just see the world with different eyes and there are just a lot of things that are shitty in life, not just for young women and children, but for a lot of people. It is such a widespread problem and it just doesn't seem like anything is ever done to address it. Then to have the candidate for president in one of the most important elections of our lifetime be someone that is accused of this is just going to be too much for a lot people.
 

-Peabody-

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,594
I guess I would have hoped for an understanding that people are obviously conflicted about what they're going to do in the general election. Framing this as an 'A or B' choice that can be decided relatively quickly with utilitarian calculus isn't fair to those who are struggling with this decision. Some people are so dead set on wanting to kick out Trump that stopping and thinking about it for a moment is akin to being one of his supporters.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
I can only speak for myself, but I'm not surprised to see people here react so poorly and treat victims so terribly. Victims are almost always ignored, brushed off, and treated as inconvenient if not outright vilified, attacked, and ostracized. Everyone who has experience abuse or assault knows what that feels like. Even if they've never told anyone, they see other victims being treated that way and they internalize it.

We are used to it. We expect it. It still fucking hurts.
 
Sep 14, 2019
3,028
I guess I would have hoped for an understanding that people are obviously conflicted about what they're going to do in the general election. Framing this as an 'A or B' choice that can be decided relatively quickly with utilitarian calculus isn't fair to those who are struggling with this decision. Some people are so dead set on wanting to kick out Trump that stopping and thinking about it for a moment is akin to being one of his supporters.

Yeah, before the allegations surfaced, I was all "Vote Blue No Matter Who!" But now, I don't feel comfortable saying that anymore.

I'm still voting for Biden. I really want the other fucker out and if Biden ever needs to step down, after being elected, from the allegations, at least we'll have his VP pick.

But... I'll understand if people, especially victims, don't want to vote for him.
 

CrocM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,587
Yeah, before the allegations surfaced, I was all "Vote Blue No Matter Who!" But now, I don't feel comfortable saying that anymore.

I'm still voting for Biden. I really want the other fucker out and if Biden ever needs to step down, after being elected, from the allegations, at least we'll have his VP pick.

But... I'll understand if people, especially victims, don't want to vote for him.
This is pretty much where I'm at, too.
 

mddover

Member
Jan 9, 2019
201
I haven't been a victim of sexual violence, but I still find myself conflicted about what the right course of action is in this situation. To some degree my uncertainty is moot since I live in a red state and it doesn't really make any difference who I vote for, but nonetheless I don't know what the correct choice would be if I lived in a swing state.

On the one hand, I think there's a convincing argument to be made that we only have two real options to pick from and we should therefore choose the least harmful one even if both options are bad. But on the other hand, just as there are likely to be far-reaching consequences of a continued Trump presidency, there may be far-reaching consequences of rallying behind Biden. With the Republicans supporting Trump and the Democrats supporting Biden are we entering a scenario where neither party can credibly say that sexual assault has any bearing on one's fitness for public office?

I may be misremembering some of the details of the Kavanaugh case, but as I recall it was fairly similar to what we have with Biden. That is, there is an allegation combined with additional evidence (e.g. Kavanaugh's yearbook or the videos of Biden being "handsy") that suggest that it wouldn't be completely unimaginable that these men might have committed sexual assault. Democrats argued, rightfully in my opinion, that the seriousness and credibility of the allegation should disqualify Kavanaugh from holding a position on the court. If the Democrats now support Biden, does that undercut our argument? More specifically, was the party actually opposing Kavanaugh simply because he was a conservative and the rape allegation was only used as a tool to keep him off the bench, or did we really believe that that accusation of sexual assault disqualified him in and of itself?

Especially after the #MeToo movement, I think there has been a growing consensus on the left that our response to Bill Clinton's sexual misconduct was incorrect. The Republicans no doubt were using the Lewinsky scandal to score political points, but the blanket defense that we as Democrats had for all of the sexual abuse allegations surrounding Clinton was a mistake. And in hindsight, our unity at the time seems to have been to little benefit: his presidency was followed by who I still consider to be worst president in my lifetime. Would things have been different if Democrats had been more supportive of the victims and separated from Clinton? Maybe? Probably not? Who knows.

I was very sympathetic to the argument that if Republicans were really as concerned about morality as they claimed to be in the 90s, then they wouldn't have supported Trump, and by doing so they showed themselves to be hypocrites. I still think that's a good description of what happened - the Republican party at large used morality as a weapon to achieve political power, but they didn't actually care. With all this in mind, am I a hypocrite if I now support Biden? When I told family that even if they agree with conservative policy they ought to oppose people as immoral as Trump, was I lying (perhaps unconsciously) to myself and my family about my true motivations? Did I really care that Trump is a sexual predator, or did I just not want a conservative to be elected?

Even with all these considerations in my head, I do think that reiterating that despite everything we still only have two options and should therefore choose the least harmful one is still a reasonable response. It's not one I necessarily agree with yet, but maybe in time I'll get there. But for all the conflict I'm experiencing, I can only imagine that it is amplified several times over for those who lived through sexual violence. These are dark, confusing times and we're just trying to do the best we can.
 
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Furyous

Banned
Jan 7, 2018
433
I tried to write this reply for an hour but its still going to come across as mean but here goes...

I'm black and historically speaking white women accusing black men of a sexual assault usually ends with the black man dying, a black community massacred, and/or heavily disenfranchised such as Rosewood. Sorry for not rushing to demonize everyone accused of a sexual assault/rape. Keyword here is "accused" but more on this later..

I understand my history and the power of allegations of sexual assault such as this:

www.nytimes.com

Woman Linked to 1955 Emmett Till Murder Tells Historian Her Claims Were False (Published 2017)

Carolyn Bryant Donham is quoted in a new book as admitting her long-ago allegations that Emmett grabbed her and was menacing and sexually crude toward her, “is not true.”

This isnt saying every woman is lying about sexual assault but that one community was heavily disenfranchised in part due to false allegations (not every allegation is false obviously).

I cannot speak for what is said here but in real life so lets get to the crux of this issue.

Trump got elected with 20 sexual assault allegations hanging over his head, settled a case of sexual misconduct days before election, audio leaked of him encouraging grabbing women by a body part, tried to force himself on a reporter... all before inaguaration. Most of the previous examples happened before the 2016 election. I have not touched on any of the stuff that came out since then like allegations of another sexual assault. Was there a coordinated campaign amongst white women to criminalize Trump that I missed? Was he thoroughly investigated by an independent third party and cleared of impropriety?

Trump earned votes from 53% of white women in the 2016 election with all that on the table. Biden is accused of sexual impropriety. Do I vote for him over Trump because liberal outlets tell me Trump is the worst President ever? An argument could be made that by voting for either Trump or Biden I am anti-women, misogynistic anti-feminist filth so maybe I shouldnt vote.

In the immediate aftermath of Trump's victory my community was blamed for not voting.....

I am powerless on this issue. You don't feel safe here? I'm not safe in real life, to a certain extent from you... You should not be shamed for holding any politician accountable and are more than welcome to express your opinion on this issue.

You hold more power than I can dream of even now. Organize a campaign to get Biden off the DNC ticket. It's going to be tough but you can do it. Might be kinda hard with the coronavirus but do it.

Look at it on the bright side: If your campaign to oust Biden gives the country four more years of Trump I get blamed for it even from you. Alison Morris about to slip up again on election night I can see it now. Please dont attack women here for expressing hurt and pain over Biden's alleged rape.

I doubt you read this far but don't shame anyone for holding Biden accountable.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
(Edit: not in response to the above post, it was submitted as I was typing)
Can we just have this one thread where people don't post walls of text running interference for Biden and trying to argue that victims should, actually, vote for an accused rapist?

It's one of the reasons why this thread exists.

It's not about voting for fucking Biden. Some of you need to listen for once. This site feels like screaming into a void.

I thank the many people who have spoken up for victims of accuse, however, and shared their own experiences and how they've been impacted here.
 
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uncelestial

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,060
San Francisco, CA, USA
User Banned (Permanent): Inflammatory derailment, victim blaming regarding sexual assault over multiple posts; long history of dismissive behavior
If we want to make shots across the bow at people offering anything but unconditional acceptance of Tara Reade's accusations against Biden, framing that as an issue of "how we treat sexual assault victims" feels disingenuous. Because of the high-profile nature of this case and the high stakes involved, it is going to be very, very heavily scrutinized, and rightly so. And the fact is, you should be skeptical of Reade's claims.

Just take a moment to take in this well-sourced article someone put together, which goes to great lengths to Show The Sources with screencaps and links. Just take it in and let it sink in before popping off at me - if anything, that's all I ask of you.

medium.com

Evidence Casts Doubt on Tara Reade’s Sexual Assault Allegations of Joe Biden

Alexandra Tara Reade’s accusations of sexual assault against Joe Biden appear very questionable once the story is fully investigated.

Ok? Ok.

Now, can we please better define the behavior described by the OP, "gaslighting and victim blaming?" What is the nature of that behavior? Is it applying scrutiny to Reade's allegations? Is pointing out the political stakes and having a broad discussion about the veracity of Reade's claims what amounts to "feel[ing] like the whole site openly despises and dismisses victims?" If it's not, I just have to say, that's hard for me to see. Maybe I'm not listening well and missing the point, maybe I've missed some infamous incidents (I'm not the most active member here or anything), but maybe also the OP could've been more specific about incidents they are seeing and not framed the discussion around the Biden accusations.

The thing is there is plenty to nail Joe Biden on when it comes to women. Invading their personal space constantly with his handsy weirdness. His shameful running of the Anita Hill hearings and the way she was allowed to be treated on his watch. His shaky support of abortion rights.

But drawing lines in the sand re: Reade's allegations in this way is going to prove very, very destructive for the community here.

Anything you want to say about posters who extrapolate their skepticism about Reade into general skepticism towards sexual abuse victims, fair enough - they are scum. But because the OP isn't calling out specific incidents, it's hard not to suspect that actually the OP is extrapolating that the skepticism towards Reade proves that there is widespread skepticism towards all victims. I don't believe that about this community. And neither should you.
 
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uncelestial

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,060
San Francisco, CA, USA
(Edit: not in response to the above post, it was submitted as I was typing)
Can we just have this one thread where people don't post walls of text running interference for Biden and trying to argue that you should, actually, vote for an accused rapist?

It's one of the reasons why this thread exists.

It's not about voting for fucking Biden. Some of you need to listen for once. This site feels like screaming into a void.

I thank the many people who have spoken up for victims of accuse, however, and shared their own experiences and how they've been impacted here.
I think a better OP that didn't actually frame the narrative around the reaction to the Biden story would have produced a thread a lot closer to that goal. Of course what the OP did is going to confuse the plot, by a lot.
 
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