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RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,648
And if this nabs me a ban for "minimizing sexual assault" y'all have really lost the damn plot.
Let me ask you this: When you say "y'all", you are referring to yourself as part of an outgroup. You seem to not see yourself as part of the forum, or at least the majority of it. I guess I would ask what group do you see yourself as a part of, and when you say "y'all" what group are you referring to that others are a part of?
 

HiLife

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
39,616
Era ain't as a woke as they think they are and I agree. So much sus shit lately from posters I never expected.
 

weekev

Is this a test?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,213
I think sexual assault survivors in the US have a horrible situation come November and totally understand their desire to not be part of a democratic process that is pitting 2 rapists against each other. The fact that is even a situation is gross as fuck.
 

Ogodei

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,256
Coruscant
Minimizing sexual assault no matter who the perp is should be a bannable offense. Period.

The problem with this is it creates room for bad-faith posters to stake out a position in pursuit of an ulterior motive and use categorical rules like that to spread bad faith posting with impunity, because anyone who tries to get a word in edgewise gets banned. Context counts, posting history counts, and concern for a delicate issue counts.

There's a space between bad faith JAQing regarding sexual assault, which absolutely should not be tolerated, and having a good faith discussion on the broader context of an accusation with proper concern for trauma victims.

I for one wish there was more transparency around this story and what sort of vetting of it has been going on. The lack of understanding about why Reade's accusations aren't getting picked up is what's breeding this terrible situation we're seeing in this thread. In the shadows of that lack of knowledge, some really dark stuff is growing.
 

Midnight Jon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,161
Ohio
Let me ask you this: When you say "y'all", you are referring to yourself as part of an outgroup. You seem to not see yourself as part of the forum, or at least the majority of it. I guess I would ask what group do you see yourself as a part of, and when you say "y'all" what group are you referring to that others are a part of?
I don't see myself as part of this forum because ETC has demonstrated it doesn't want people of my ideological bent in there and will stop at nothing to brand me as something I'm clearly fucking not.
 
Oct 27, 2017
17,973
It's true. Mods aren't allowed to perm on the spot except in very specific circumstances.

This should be clarified. No moderator is allowed to perm on the spot just like that, even when it may seem blatantly obvious that a perm is the appropriate course of action. The offending post(s) must be reviewed by the available team and a quick turnaround on a perm must be approved by higher-ups in charge. Other than an easy-to-make mistake because of the forum's own interface, when it comes to quick perms specifically, I haven't seen it done other than through review and approval.

Truth. I've had a wall of people publicly admit to ignoring my posts because I brought up an accusation of rape too much. A mod told me we need to wait for the right time.

To be fair to both you and other members, what you recently brought up in PoliEra was media coverage and treatment of the accusation - which frankly no one here can actually give you any satisfaction on. Many here refuse to watch said media, and others post quite often that the media needs to be called out on both their coverage and lack of coverage of allegations, so they agree with you more than you realize. Even people who did respond to you at length knew they couldn't fully address your complaint. And that mod was talking about the media, not whether we ourselves as a community have to wait for the right time.

At least people were willing to listen to you and hear you out about the media. And people are willing to continue to listen to you, but also just know that you are not the sole or premier arbiter of what "believe women" means on Era, nor are you the designated hall monitor on this issue. People are ignoring you because of your sustained hall-monitor campaign and surprise litmus tests, not because they don't want to listen to you or other people regarding sexual assault.

I'm sorry that it feels like the world passes you by on this topic. And you should have the space and place to discuss these things without every thread being taken over by "what is your vote and what does it mean and answer me now before I disrespect you forever" interjections that are taking over even this thread. When a thread like this comes up, we as a community shouldn't feel the immediate need to pop up countervailing posts and threads about the implications of voting, IMO. We really should be listening and acknowledging this space and who needs it, and allowing for venting - even about something that is months away.
 

Audioboxer

Banned
Nov 14, 2019
2,943
The turning of a blind eye to MJ for years in spite of it being completely obvious has also been troublesome.

Undoubtedly, but for celebrities, artists, sports-people, film-makers and any more like that in power who get away with it, you can boycott.

The whole crux of the issue here is the argument you have to vote and/or if you are struggling to how can you carry that burden on top of your abuse.
 

RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,648
I don't see myself as part of this forum because ETC has demonstrated it doesn't want people of my ideological bent in there and will stop at nothing to brand me as something I'm clearly fucking not.
What is your ideological bent, and what do you believe is the ideological bent of others? I don't mean to be rude, it just sticks in my craw a bit when I see the whole "Era is all X" type stuff or people intimate they aren't welcome because of their beliefs when a fairly wide range of beliefs are accepted here, just not obviously awful ones.
 
OP
OP
Xaszatm

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
I don't see myself as part of this forum because ETC has demonstrated it doesn't want people of my ideological bent in there and will stop at nothing to brand me as something I'm clearly fucking not.

I'm just going to say this right now. You are making this thread unsafe for victims of sexual assault and rape.
 

Valcrist

Tic-Tac-Toe Champion
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,686
TW: rape
I was raped when I was 5 years old, and then I was raped by multiple people all through my early teenage years from 13-15. I managed to escape the situation eventually, but it has destroyed my life. It's hard for me to tell my friends that this is one of the reasons I don't want to vote for Biden, because it's hard to open up about this to people that I know. It also doesn't help that Biden doesn't seem to support SSI (I get this for my PTSD and multiple sclerosis) which would affect my ability to pay my rent and take care of myself and my mental health.
 

Midnight Jon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,161
Ohio
What is your ideological bent, and what do you believe is the ideological bent of others?
I am a social democrat who has consistently voted and organized in line with socially democratic policy for the last 11 years. This forum gives me the impression that it is increasingly revolutionary socialist in bent and seems to be jumping onto anything that they think will stick to opponents of revolutionary socialism if it Gets The Job Done, and that it took all the posters and none of the lessons from the place it was meant to replace.

I'm just going to say this right now. You are making this thread unsafe for victims of sexual assault and rape.
I'm just going to say this right now: I am literally one of those victims and will have mental trauma for the rest of my life from it.

What do you think your achieving here?
Since this forum seems to rise and fall on the whims of bad faith posters regardless of their political lean? Probably not much.

(Honestly I've been expecting a perm since someone asked me to "speak my mind" and I subsequently did so.)
 

rras1994

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,742
Are you trying to establish your right to be an absolute ass by saying the alternative is stifling free speech?
You don't tell a poster who already said multiple times in the thread they are a sexual assault victim that by talking in the thread they are making it unsafe for sexual assault victims. You can disagree with a person without going to that.
 

Audioboxer

Banned
Nov 14, 2019
2,943
Jon is a sexual assault victim. Why is his pain irrelevant compared to yours?

It's not a good path to go down pitting sexual assault victims against each other, but I don't think it's that radical to reiterate what I said earlier, all victims can be at different stages of recovery. That can influence feelings and triggers.

Some people might be more capable or ready to vote for Biden, or do something others cannot in that moment, or might not ever be able to. Recovery isn't a linear path. I think everyone needs to keep that in mind.
 

Ryuuroden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
289
User Banned (1 Month): Inflammatory Whataboutism in a Sensitive Thread
It feels there is a massive minimizing of the countless woman and children being raped in ICE camps by the guards under the willing allowances of the Trump administration. Is Biden going to continue the industrialized rape concentration camps because if he isn't then this is that moral quandary of 1000s possibility 10s of thousands being raped under permission of the trump govt and voting for accused rapist Biden who won't continue the camps. That doesn't minimize anything Biden does but it does offer perspective
 

Deleted member 48897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 22, 2018
13,623
Did those 7 women accuse him of sexual assault or rape, or are you willfully minimizing their accounts into Reade's?



I guess the question is when, say, Lucy Flores writes that he touched her
[in] an intimate way reserved for close friends, family, or romantic partners — and I felt powerless to do anything about it
or when Caitlin Caruso says (as summarized from Huffpo)
Biden...rested his hand on her thigh, even though she squirmed to indicate her discomfort. He also hugged her "just a little bit too long." At the time, she said, she didn't say anything publicly about it, but it felt uncomfortable because she had just shared her story of sexual assault
should we not read these as testimonies of experience sexual assault, even if the victims haven't explicitly used that term to describe it?

(Note that I'm intentionally not including Vail Kohnert-Yount's account here, because she did explicitly say she does not consider the instance of unwanted touching from Biden sexual assault. That said, I refuse to judge the other testimonials in that specific light, that because one person said that they didn't consider it sexual assault that this judgement should be applied to accounts of unwanted touching aside from her own. How they feel about their experience must not depend on what Kohnert-Yount experienced.)
 

RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,648
TW: rape
I was raped when I was 5 years old, and then I was raped by multiple people all through my early teenage years from 13-15. I managed to escape the situation eventually, but it has destroyed my life. It's hard for me to tell my friends that this is one of the reasons I don't want to vote for Biden, because it's hard to open up about this to people that I know. It also doesn't help that Biden doesn't seem to support SSI (I get this for my PTSD and multiple sclerosis) which would affect my ability to pay my rent and take care of myself and my mental health.
That was brave as hell of you to share, I hope you are doing okay now
 
OP
OP
Xaszatm

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
I'm not sure what your point is here, are you trying to silence any form of dissent by saying it makes you feel unsafe?
Jon is a sexual assault victim. Why is his pain irrelevant compared to yours?
I am a social democrat who has consistently voted and organized in line with socially democratic policy for the last 11 years. This forum gives me the impression that it is increasingly revolutionary socialist in bent and seems to be jumping onto anything that they think will stick to opponents of revolutionary socialism if it Gets The Job Done, and that it took all the posters and none of the lessons from the place it was meant to replace.


I'm just going to say this right now: I am literally one of those victims and will have mental trauma for the rest of my life from it.


Since this forum seems to rise and fall on the whims of bad faith posters regardless of their political lean? Probably not much.

Using your own personal trauma (which I am horrified by and absolutely sorry for) to blunt or downplay other people's trauma is wrong. I am saying that your comments ignore their trauma while putting yours up as a defense. That is why I say your comments are inappropriate for this thread.
 

Sean

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,591
Longview
I'm just going to say this right now. You are making this thread unsafe for victims of sexual assault and rape.

He absolutely is. It's disgusting how people like him are allowed to wield his own shit against the rest of us. It's telling how some people are defended and the rest of us aren't. But hey, that's typical around here and why I've been not wanting to bother.
 

Ortix

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,438
I guess the question is when, say, Lucy Flores writes that he touched her

or when Caitlin Caruso says (as summarized from Huffpo)

should we not read these as testimonies of experience sexual assault, even if the victims haven't explicitly used that term to describe it?

(Note that I'm explicitly not including Vail Kohnert-Yount's account here, because she did explicitly say she does not consider the instance of unwanted touching from Biden sexual assault. That said, I refuse to judge the other testimonials in that specific light, that because one person said that they didn't consider it sexual assault that this judgement should be applied to accounts of unwanted touching aside from her own. How they feel about their experience must not depend on what Kohnert-Yount experienced.)

Lucy Flores explicitly said she did not think it was sexual assault. So, in that case, yes?
 

Deleted member 48897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 22, 2018
13,623
Lucy Flores explicitly said she did not think it was sexual assault. So, in that case, yes?

OK. What I read from her in that The Cut article didn't seem so explicit; the only point she uses the term is in referring to what happened to her as not being "what most people consider sexual assault" [emphasis mine] which didn't read to me as an explicit denial so much as an acknowledgement of the realities of how society dismisses unwanted physical contact this way. If she said more to that fact anywhere else I was missing it when trying to look up the specifics of what they said about their experiences (i.e., it may have been behind the NYT paywall)
 

Audioboxer

Banned
Nov 14, 2019
2,943
Sure, but some people think that 'Letting it play out' = Not believing Women.

Depends on how you're using that phrase, because in of itself it's pretty blunt and/or could be seen as dismissive. In an ethical world there should be no waiting if we want to talk about the man himself, Biden, tackling something like this head on. Nor his party probably, because politicians are supposed to be servants of the people, so you'd expect a political party to handle this quickly and seriously.

So to just sort of keep flipping a coin waiting on something, is also often a serious flaw in regards to helping victims. They're always waiting. Waiting to be heard. Waiting to be taken seriously. Waiting for justice. Waiting for the powerful not to have the stack in their favour.
 

Ortix

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,438
Are you seriously minimizing a man behaving in a clearly inappropriate and sexually harassing way again? Why are you not banned yet?

Because I'm not doing that? I responded to the question above regarding the Lucy Flores case. When coming forward, she pointed out all the ways in which Biden made her uncomfortable/ hurt her, and explicitly clarified she did not consider it sexual assault. I am quoting a victim's feeling on what she went through, here. That is all I did.

I'm not sure why you feel the need to aggressively twist my words and get me banned over that.
 

Midnight Jon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,161
Ohio
I guess the question is when, say, Lucy Flores writes that he touched her

or when Caitlin Caruso says (as summarized of Huffpo)

should we not read these as testimonies of experience sexual assault, even if the victims haven't explicitly used that term to describe it?

(Note that I'm explicitly not including Vail Kohnert-Yount's account here, because she did explicitly say she does not consider the instance of unwanted touching from Biden sexual assault. That said, I refuse to judge the other testimonials in that specific light, that because one person said that they didn't consider it sexual assault that this judgement should be applied to accounts of unwanted touching aside from her own. How they feel about their experience must not depend on what Kohnert-Yount experienced.)
Honestly? As a victim myself it's always immensely complicated whether you read something as an experience of sexual assault. I wasn't even sure myself whether the coercion that I experienced was assault for years after the fact, so I absolutely am giving them that read if they go out and say it. (Caruso in particular is a strong argument toward giving the behavior that read overall.)

And to be clear, Biden's behavior has been wildly inappropriate at best and I will absolutely not try to shame anyone into voting for him whether the reason's the allegations or anything else. I just think the discourse around here is actively poisonous about it.
 

Valcrist

Tic-Tac-Toe Champion
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,686
That was brave as hell of you to share, I hope you are doing okay now
I've shared before, but anonymously on the old forum. I've never seen any mental health professionals because I don't want to relive it even though I relive it from time to time it's more intense when I talk about it to people in person. My parents don't even know.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,120
It feels there is a massive minimizing of the countless woman and children being raped in ICE camps by the guards under the willing allowances of the Trump administration. Is Biden going to continue the industrialized rape concentration camps because if he isn't then this is that moral quandary of 1000s possibility 10s of thousands being raped under permission of the trump govt and voting for accused rapist Biden who won't continue the camps. That doesn't minimize anything Biden does but it does offer perspective

Not sure what the the purpose of this post is.
 

Deleted member 2761

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,620
You don't tell a poster who already said multiple times in the thread they are a sexual assault victim that by talking in the thread they are making it unsafe for sexual assault victims. You can disagree with a person without going to that.

1. Suiko did not say that he was a sexual assault survivor. 2. Personal trauma is not a license to downplay the trauma of others.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,226
If there any victims of sexual assault being shamed to vote for someone who is a sexual abuser, that is fucked up and they have every right to make that voting decision and then some. I would personally love to take a swing at anyone who says otherwise.
 

BDS

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,845
Because I'm not doing that? I responded to the question above regarding the Lucy Flores case. When coming forward, she pointed out all the ways in which Biden made her uncomfortable/ hurt her, and explicitly clarified she did not consider it sexual assault. I am quoting a victim's feeling on what she went through, here. That is all I did.

I'm not sure why you feel the need to aggressively twist my words and get me banned over that.

What Biden did to her is clearly harassment and assault, regardless of what a person chooses to consider it for their own mental health. She says she didn't want it, and he did it anyway.
 

Deleted member 48897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 22, 2018
13,623
Honestly? As a victim myself it's always immensely complicated whether you read something as an experience of sexual assault. I wasn't even sure myself whether the coercion that I experienced was assault for years after the fact, so I absolutely am giving them that read if they go out and say it.

Like to be clear I sought more to actually bring specific details of their accounts into the discussion rather than use this as a gotcha -- I do believe that the judgement of what happened to a victim in the moment is primarily theirs. I knew at least one victim in the list of accusers didn't consider it but my admittedly cursory searching only turned up VKY saying so.
 

rras1994

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,742
And I don't necessarily agree with Midnight Jon but a wait and see aproach is allowed on this forum and I feel deeply uncomfortable saying to a sexual assault victim in this thread they aren't welcome in a thread about sexual assault victims because they make it unsafe for sexual assault victims. There were ways of disagreeing with Miidnight Jon that involved not saying that.
 

Audioboxer

Banned
Nov 14, 2019
2,943
Biden has also faced increasing calls to address allegations of sexual assault from Alexandra Tara Reade, who claimed he'd attacked her in 1993 while she was a member of his Senate staff. Biden's camp has denied Reade's allegation, but the candidate himself hasn't offered public comment.

www.mic.com

Bernie Sanders drops out of the 2020 race

Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders — a onetime frontrunner for the Democratic presidential nomination — announced Wednesday that he was suspending his 2020 campaign, after a series of electoral defeats in a number of primary races. With Sanders out, former…

I mean it's shit like that, that makes people angry. Hiding behind your campaign staff.
 
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