We need to have a talk about Digital Foundry comparisons

Crayon · Nov 20, 2020

People from Twitter kind of a bad example don't you think? We have no control over that. People here who get that bad get actioned.

As a matter of fact, the assassin's Creed thread was just fine. Those comparison threads are always salty. It's not like it was some kind of banyard.

Edit: beaten at post #7

krazen · Nov 20, 2020

"Gamers" are inherently horrible people, imagine going that hard for a console in an era of crossplay and near universal multi-console releases.

id say they grow out of it eventually, but as we've seen from various movements, nah. They get worse.

Imagine a bunch of people passionate about videogames giving you all this awesome info about graphics for you to make a decision for free...and you shit on em because you're basically salty about your own life.

Kewlmyc · Nov 20, 2020

People on the internet suck. This shit isn't new.

Datajoy · Nov 20, 2020

I feel bad for John especially, he strikes me as a really sensitive and thoughtful guy. Its easy just say "tune it out", but I can tell that is hard for him and he takes a lot of the toxicity he sees to heart. Hope he can always remember that for every asshole on twitter there are hundreds of grateful fans and viewers out here too.

M. Wallace · Nov 20, 2020

Ambient said:
People are idiots even here. It's a bummer.

Yep. Shame.

cakely · Nov 20, 2020

Era is not Twitter.

I agree that there are awful people out there that take console wars far too seriously, but there's really no need to post tweets from bad actors on Twitter here. Our moderation has a pretty good handle on it, all things considered.

laser · Nov 20, 2020

shinken said:
Wait. John stopped posting here? Did something happen?

From another thread.

zoodoo said:
Dark1x stopped coming here because of Ion Fury threads. People were complaining about the devs behaviour and comments (homophobic, transphobic, misogynistic et...). Dark1x produced 2 videos about the game. People called him out about the first one and he said he did not know. After the 2nd one, people were mad at him again. His response was that he was torn because he loved the game and knew the devs. Personally I thought that was very hypocritical of him, knowing how sensitive the subject matter was. He did not appreciate the heat on him and left. But no one attacked him personnally or chased him. He was just called out for his bullshit as anybody should be regardless of your popularity.

It had nothing to do with console wars

SimonM7 · Nov 20, 2020

Chessguy1 said:
john is too nice

This is sadly a huge part of it. DF has become the primary choke point in a console war that has come to a head apropos the respective launch, for the final word on who bought the best box. It is run by genuinely sweet guys with genuine passion for their work, who had no clue what hit them when they unwittingly drew the aggro of garbage fanboys from the deepest pits of brand-as-identity hell.

carlsojo · Nov 20, 2020

Zophar said:
Please do not pour your identity into your choices as a consumer, people, for God's sake.

This is sadly what people do - they associate with a brand or product and it becomes their identity.

Mobius 1 · Nov 20, 2020

It's not a simple matter for them to simply tune out part of the audience they're trying to reach. What we need is simple human decency from these scumbags harassing them, but decency and respect seem to have fallen off a cliff in the past few years with no signs of recovery.

laser · Nov 20, 2020

Ambient said:
People are idiots even here. It's a bummer.

Marcellus Wallace said:
Yep. Shame.

Sorry, but calling a person out for signal boosting homophobic devs that released a game with homophobia is different from console wars. Stop with the false equivalency.

onyxxxxxxx · Nov 20, 2020

thats the internet. ever since so many people joined gaming, forums and youtube through the past decade, you have a ton of uninformed, misguided users and people have no patience at all. thats generation 'social' smartphone for you. I see that kind of stuff literally everywhere, it's even exhausting for users. Thats why I'm usually passive and dont bother with comments and others. that being said:

I'm totally thankful for channels like DF and other youtube pioneers that do so much for the average consumers!

CatAssTrophy · Nov 20, 2020

offshore said:
So it's irrelevant, and yet that's exactly what you've based the thread on. lol.

"People are mad about the outcomes of comparison videos, let's not talk about those videos specifically, and instead discuss how people react to them and mistreat the DF guys" is the point of the thread and it seems like you're intentionally misrepresenting that.

RadioJoNES · Nov 20, 2020

Love you John :)

Sixfortyfive · Nov 20, 2020

John should just do DF Retro full time. It would be more fun for him and more enjoyable for me. Win-win.

laser said:
Sorry, but calling a person out for signal boosting homophobic devs that released a game with homophobia is different from console wars. Stop with the false equivalency.

And it's real interesting how Era just completely dropped the issue and ceased to bother Digital Foundry about it after we chased John off the site.

Almost like we didn't actually care about it either.

Prine · Nov 20, 2020

It really pains me to see the shit John and Dictator are subjected to, they're the target because they're the most visible due to them being so passionate about what they do, they engage with gamers, but that brings with it the opportunity for abuse, unfortunately. I know we'll lose the guys active participation with gamers because of the toxicity gamers, why would any want to deal with that continuously? And it's not unique to DF. We have it here on Era. Rich has the right approach I feel, communicate through content and articles, don't go anywhere near public forums or twitter.

laser · Nov 20, 2020

Sixfortyfive said:
John should just do DF Retro full time. It would be more fun for him and more enjoyable for me. Win-win.

And it's real interesting how Era just completely dropped the issue and ceased to bother Digital Foundry about it after we chased John off the site.

Almost like we didn't actually care about it either.

Sorry, but you're mixing the two. People that care do care. The people who don't care are the people who only want to talk about graphic and game play and not the social context, which is a large part of gaming side. There's not enough people who care on gaming side, which is why we have game awards threads that instantly blow up while threads that call out crunch or discrimination never last long.

CrichtonKicks · Nov 20, 2020

Teiresias said:
I mean, you make proclamations about what we need to do on Era . . . and then post only things from Twitter?

I mean, I don't think anyone insults John or Alex here do they, without consequences?

Someone made some pretty abhorrent accusations about Alex here not too long ago (might have been in one of the Crysis remastered threads) but I don't recall if they were actioned.

DuvalDevil · Nov 20, 2020

Ah, I love DF. Watch every video right after its available. Rich, Tom, John and Alex are doing incredible work and I enjoy the deep dives every time. Had a private conversation with John on Twitter and he just doesnt seem like a nice guy, he really IS a nice guy. Too nice maybe. Internet trolls can smell that like sharks smell blood in the water and they jump right on it. Fuck those idiots.

Its a shame, because those people deserve all the credit they can get. DF crew...keep your heads up and keep doing your awesome work!

Scottoest · Nov 20, 2020

I love the DF guys, and think their videos are great. I also think there's no question that they occasionally poke the fanboy hornet's nest, by pushing the "head to head" aspect of their videos, or that their videos have become a focal point for a lot of console warring and they almost certainly know that. That's as true now, as it was seven years ago when everyone was laughing at the Xbox One for running games at 900p because of DF's videos.

They aren't dishonest in any way, and absolutely nobody should be hurling invective at them over the internet for what they do, which should go without saying. Making videogame breakdown videos shouldn't come with emotional costs.

Kyuuji · Nov 20, 2020

Sixfortyfive said:
And it's real interesting how Era just completely dropped the issue and ceased to bother Digital Foundry about it after we chased John off the site.

Almost like we didn't actually care about it either.

You mean aside from the next time a 3D Realms related video came up on DF and there was a discussion with Alex around it?

Kraken3dfx · Nov 20, 2020

John, Richard and the rest of the guys at DF are doing the lord's work over there, I love their enthusiasm for drilling down into the differences in hardware and bringing the differences to the surface. At the end of the day, it's rarely going to affect my personal choices unless the differences are completely striking (Bayonetta PS3 is a good example where it definitely would), but I love to watch them compare footage and get into the technical nuance of gaming hardware, whether is an XSX or a Saga Saturn.

Wein Cruz · Nov 20, 2020

To anyone complaining about twitter examples being posted you can go through any DF thread and see full blown system wars.

This thread, in particular, was embarrassing

Digital Foundry: Analysis of PS5 teardown video

Article: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-playstation-5-teardown-analysis

www.resetera.com

The good thing here on era at least is that personal insults towards them result in a ban. I would never read twitter or YouTube comments if I were them.

Fallout-NL · Nov 20, 2020

Kewlmyc said:
People on the internet suck. This shit isn't new.

Yup, they should just ignore these people. I can only imagine how horrible functioning on the internet must be if you're somewhat famous and don't ignore these people. Just ignore them. DF is doing fabulous work and they should feel great about that.

nizerifin · Nov 20, 2020

These fellas need to stay off of social media. They don't need to constantly defend themselves against disingenuous criticism, and I understandably think the harassment is getting to them. My concern, beyond the obvious mental damage that can occur when dealing with idiots all day, is that the console warring will begin to seep into their analyses, making them fear reporting their findings if they favor one platform over another. I'm not saying this has happened yet, to be clear.

Necron · Nov 20, 2020

We're not any better, I'd argue; Dark1x doesn't even visit here anymore.

I'd personally stay off the social medias in general if I were him.

Deleted member 43 · Nov 20, 2020

Firmus_Anguis said:
It's a fucking toy (sorry, had to borrow your words, Matt).

No need to be sorry. They are fucking toys.

Vinc · Nov 20, 2020

I almost feel like people miss the point of these comparisons entirely. There are 3 main pillars that make a DF video interesting. 3 things that give them value:

- They allow people to make an informed purchase decision.
- They offer an educated analysis of video games from the technical standpoint, which is educational / informative, and can go as far as helping the developers identify inconsistencies in their products.
- They are entertaining (their content has gotten a little bit more personality driven, which has been super entertaining to me).

It isn't about tribalism or a war, it's about comparing consumer products. That's not a war. It IS about which console performs the best for a particular product. That's a fair and interesting conversation to have for the reasons cited above, but there is absolutely nothing interesting about dunking on other people or gloating at them that your "team" won.

I think we may have a societal problem with tribalism, a problem we always had, but one made far worse by the age of social media. I know a common thing to say is that it was always there and that social media just gives the worst people a voice, but I genuinely do think it also did get worse with time. People feel more entitled and more empowered because of social media, it's not just a megaphone, it's fucking us up.

Digital Foundry does really great work. It doesn't just suck that people have to go and harass the team because of it, it's genuinely despicable.

Lobster Roll · Nov 20, 2020

Chessguy1 said:
i saw this on reddit the other day.. john is too nice, he shouldn't humor them. i mean, just read the first message, it's obviously not being asked in good faith.

Still can't believe they entertain fools that talk to them like that and push the conversations online. I hope DF know that their work is greatly appreciated here.

Kyuuji · Nov 20, 2020

Necron said:
We're not any better, I'd argue.
There's a reason Dark1x doesn't even visit here anymore.

He was asked questions around why he was fawning over a game that had homophobic content and was made by a team who were actively transphobic and bigoted toward their community and social channels. One that refused to remove said homophobic content because of "censorship" while courting an alt-right crowd. He didn't handle the critical line of questioning well and decided to take a break for his health - which he was entitled to and makes sense.

Don't equate the harassment in the OP over console boxes to asking someone questions about their video boosting questionable people and products.

LifeLike · Nov 20, 2020

Justsomeguy said:
I hope they remember that the quiet majority love their work and really appreciate it.

Deleted member 10629 · Nov 20, 2020

I wonder if in the future John will limit himself to DF Retro stuff, or go back to the comparisons without voice overs. The shit they take for stating facts is undeserved.

Protome · Nov 20, 2020

I feel like John really needs to take a page from the rest of the DF crew's books and log off a bit more. He's far too patient with bad faith commenters/Twitter users.

Necron said:
We're not any better, I'd argue; Dark1x doesn't even visit here anymore.

I'd personally stay off the social medias in general if I were him.

He left here for very different reasons and it's honestly embarrassing that you're equating the two.

Joseki said:
DF should honestly remove the comments from their YouTube channel and Twitter.

They probably won't ever remove their YouTube comments because YouTube's algorithm favours videos with comments on.

Androidsleeps · Nov 20, 2020

I really don't understand why John keeps engaging with these random trolls on twitter, I mean this cannot be healthy. The guys should also set mods on their Youtube streams if they don't already.

Yeeeeeeeeeer · Nov 20, 2020

if the df guys are reading this, love your work! F the haters because the majority of us channel subscribers appreciate the hard work you put into the videos. That said, just based on the toxic comments in the comparison videos I knew some ppl would be tweeting and DMing them hateful messages. It's probably best that you guys disable comments and avoid reading your mentions for your own sakes

Deleted member 1238 · Nov 20, 2020

Kyuuji said:
He was asked questions around why he was fawning over a game that had homophobic content and was made by a team who were actively transphobic and bigoted toward their community and social channels. One that refused to remove said homophobic content because of "censorship" while courting an alt-right crowd. He didn't handle the critical line of questioning well and decided to take a break for his health - which he was entitled to and makes sense.

Don't equate the harassment in the OP over console boxes to asking someone questions about their video boosting questionable people and products.

When people say "he doesn't post here anymore for a reason" I don't think they're referring specifically to the ion furry situation. He's clearly received a lot of flak over console wars nonsense here for years. The Ion Furry related incident was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

You don't need to feel guilty (you shouldn't, you were in the right to have a conversation about that) or respond to every one of these posts claiming that he "left for a reason." We know the Ion Furry incident was not a moment of harassment. It was all the other nonsense that ultimately caused him to leave. He and Digital Foundry still get stupid console wars related accusations thrown at them in certain era threads to this day. Era and oldGAF have a long history of toxicity over console wars nonsense.

if the ion furry incident were the only thing John has to deal with here I'm sure he'd still be around. But it wasn't. It's not your fault and you don't have to feel bad about pressing him on that, but let's not ignore the other several threads he's and DF have been victims in

Pasha · Nov 20, 2020

Kyuuji said:
He was asked questions around why he was fawning over a game that had homophobic content and was made by a team who were actively transphobic and bigoted toward their community and social channels. One that refused to remove said homophobic content because of "censorship" while courting an alt-right crowd. He didn't handle the critical line of questioning well and decided to take a break for his health - which he was entitled to and makes sense.

Don't equate the harassment in the OP over console boxes to asking someone questions about their video boosting questionable people and products.

We had people here insinuate that DF were paid shill for MS because they got a console early and did a bunch of videos on it instead of covering the PS5 teardown video.

So lets try not to gloss over this fact by bringing ion fury controversy into this thread.

Tenck · Nov 20, 2020

"Era is not Twitter". Yeah no shit, but this place can be a terrible place too. Especially when we had threads about DF taking sponsorships and how that looked bad because they were somehow not going to be critical for reasons.

get2sammyb · Nov 20, 2020

It's absolutely absurd how people are arguing over 60 frames-per-second vs 58 frames-per-second in rare circumstances, or one console having a few extra lines of pixels compared to the other. The people arguing these things wouldn't even be able to see the difference without the data being put in front of them.

Deleted member 679 · Nov 20, 2020

laser said:
Sorry, but calling a person out for signal boosting homophobic devs that released a game with homophobia is different from console wars. Stop with the false equivalency.

Alex Battaglia was called a fucking nazi in here because he has a scar on his face and is german.

Yes, let's stop with wild claims such as "there are idiots even in here".

Inugami · Nov 20, 2020

Joseki said:
DF should honestly remove the comments from their YouTube channel and Twitter. I'm not exaggerating, I have NEVER seen a meaningful discussion in there. They are the worst gaming comment section online, even 4ch is a level higher.

The lenght people go to defend/attack a plastic box is insane.

The problem is that if you removed comments, you cut into your own revenue stream. Comments are one of the metrics used to promote your video. As shit as comments are, they help pay their bills. (This is not a dig about them making money, this is legit their income and it's horrifying they have to choose between the verbal abuse/fighting and making their bills).

LumberPanda · Nov 20, 2020

Since twitter doesn't have mods, it'll always be shit. They should migrate all that twitter discussion to a forum that has moderators that will ban accounts for trolling or console warring.

Maybe we could get a DF Megathread like the Sterling one, get John back, and then they can direct all discussion to that thread which would allow it to be vetted by mods here so they don't have to deal with low quality trolls.

Blackthorn · Nov 20, 2020

Digital Foundry needs a social media manager for all their accounts. Having someone as a go-between and filter for the shit would do so much for their well-being, John especially, as the trolls seem to target him the most.

Kyuuji · Nov 20, 2020

Pasha said:
We had people here insinuate that DF were paid shill for MS because they got a console early and did a bunch of videos on it instead of covering the PS5 teardown video.

So lets try not to gloss over this fact by bringing ion fury controversy into this thread.

Pointing out the circumstances around why John stopped posting here when people directly mention him having stopped posting here isn't glossing over anything.

Console wars will always be stupid and people suggesting Alex is right leaning or bigoted because of a scar, or that DF are interested in stoking the fires of console fanboyism are stupid to a degree that's hard to fathom. Anyone taking it a step further and harassing them deserves to be ejected from whichever platform they find themselves on. I'm completely in line with people who recommend stopping comments on their videos though as mentioned above it has consequences that Eurogamer might not allow as it can drop engagement.

Stefarno · Nov 20, 2020

It's such a shame for all the fanboy nonsense they have to deal with. The DF team are great - you can really tell the passion they have for what they are covering.

Social media has resulted in a total disregard for that there are real people behind things like this. The combined impact this could have on someone over time must be awful.

HonestAbe · Nov 20, 2020

It's terrible.
It really is. I couldn't imagine being on the frontline like DF.

I was lucky enough to secure 2 Series X's. I thought it would be better for my wife to sell it (asked 650 for console plus shock blue controller, going rate in area was 850-1,000 console only) knowing I would get a lot of trolls. The amount of terrible messages she got was insane. Like she wanted to take the post down. It legit almost made her cry some of these words people were calling her. Act like adults people, not that hard.

Scruffy8642 · Nov 20, 2020

Joseki said:
DF should honestly remove the comments from their YouTube channel and Twitter. I'm not exaggerating, I have NEVER seen a meaningful discussion in there. They are the worst gaming comment section online, even 4ch is a level higher.

The lenght people go to defend/attack a plastic box is insane.

Yeah I'd be for this. The content they provide is an objective analysis, there's no real benefit to having people discuss it on the videos themselves.

laser · Nov 20, 2020

Gbraga said:
Alex Battaglia was called a fucking nazi in here because he has a scar on his face and is german.

Yes, let's stop with wild claims such as "there are idiots even in here".

That was shit, but has nothing to do with what I said. Please respond to what I actually posted.

tmac456 · Nov 20, 2020

People are trash. Simple as that. But they really need to get thicker skin and/or just stop engaging in the nonsense. It's a waste of physical and mental energy.

TalonJH · Nov 20, 2020

I always feel bad for John. Every time his tweets hit my timeline I already know what the replies are going to be.

We need to have a talk about Digital Foundry comparisons

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