This too. Online discussions obsessing over polls and analysis are not heathy long term. Know when to get offline and relax for a bit.
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We need to have a serious talk about the way the black electorate is discussed on here.
- Thread starter Brawly Likes to Brawl
- Start date
This too. Online discussions obsessing over polls and analysis are not heathy long term. Know when to get offline and relax for a bit.
So I guess we have to forever keep our heads down and maintain the status quo so that we don't get the whip? I have to say, an existence like that sounds just as bad as Trump to me.
Great OP
As for my insight, I am not black but due to other things I am also a survival voter, and I would never judge or question any other survival voter other than supporting their right to vote in their best interest. Add intersectionality into the mix and black people that are a member of the grouping I do belong in are (statistically also, not just my opinion) the most vulnerable members of American society especially for violence against them.
So when I see things like OP points out or how some of a certain candidates supporters have treated his not so great relationship with black voters as a black problem not a candidates messaging Problem it kind of pisses me off.
Especially since if your in a vulnerable group your options are basically finding the most palatable candidate for yourself but knowing you will vote for whichever gets the nom because our two party set up and primary systems for them don't leave you much choice. I am not a democrat any more than I am a Republican but with those choices I have no other choice, if people who vote defensively and survival think he's our best option again not my place to chide them.
As for my insight, I am not black but due to other things I am also a survival voter, and I would never judge or question any other survival voter other than supporting their right to vote in their best interest. Add intersectionality into the mix and black people that are a member of the grouping I do belong in are (statistically also, not just my opinion) the most vulnerable members of American society especially for violence against them.
So when I see things like OP points out or how some of a certain candidates supporters have treated his not so great relationship with black voters as a black problem not a candidates messaging Problem it kind of pisses me off.
Especially since if your in a vulnerable group your options are basically finding the most palatable candidate for yourself but knowing you will vote for whichever gets the nom because our two party set up and primary systems for them don't leave you much choice. I am not a democrat any more than I am a Republican but with those choices I have no other choice, if people who vote defensively and survival think he's our best option again not my place to chide them.
I'm Black and I'm pretty disappointed with the results from last night. I wish we could want better for ourselves
Amazing OP, thank you for this thread.
Indeed.
That's what I thought it meant, at first, but in the context of the Democratic Primary, it's targeted at black voters in the South in a really racist way (read the OP, it's all explained there). Funnily enough, over here in Canada "low information" voters does typically refer to the white redneck conservative voter or (usually white) boomers voting according to vague feelings, like distaste of the current elected ("anyone but this guy who's been in power a while and whom I'm sick of! even if the other two candidates are at polar opposites politically! I'll take either one of them over Guy in Power!" -- looking at you, dad... -_-), so I was initially confused when people called it a racist dog whistle. But when you see how it's used in the primary towards Democratic bases (white rednecks in Southern states typically don't vote Dem, eh), then yeah, it becomes obvious.
I have to be honest, I was a little surprised by this thread because that's the sort of community that I, at least, tend to use it to describe. Rural white communities that don't get much of any political outreach in any direction because their demographics are too small to register on any polls or elections.
...We do. But as with all things in life some of us see different paths to better. It's as simple as that.
No one is saying to not be disappointed, no one is saying to not take this talk to your elders.
The sever lack of understanding, even with the OP seems to be lacking.
Self preservation. The devil I know.
This sounds like dismissing it. It looks like it. It smells like it. It is.
The sever lack of understanding, even with the OP seems to be lacking.
Self preservation. The devil I know.
🤔
This sounds like dismissing it. It looks like it. It smells like it. It is.
That much was obvious. But you do have smileys, so at least you're lightening the mood. Thank you for your contributions. 😃
Great post OP, you clearly took the time and detail to lay this all out because I've been thinking about this too and you put the words right into my mouth.
Sorry but this sounds like really stupid. Not calling you stupid but the framing of it comes of as such. Everyone wants better for themselves and their loved ones. Bernie hasn't shown or even bothered to represent himself as that person who can do it.
Dementia Man is getting a lot for free but at least there is some sort of effort and there's a history there. Plus you know. "Moderate" white people will probably go for him.
Looks like engagement to me. Also, "tales from the back of your head" isn't the same as "tales from your ass". But again, you do you. Live as you like.
"Low information" is also being used by media to label people who make up their minds very shortly before voting. The "reasoning" is: "how could you wait until the last minute to think about this and vote when there has been so much information out there on the candidates for months!" Obviously this is not correct, plenty of people have been paying attention and thinking the entire time, some just not deciding until it was "go" time.
Since polling has shown Super Tuesday to be full of voters making up their minds shortly before or at the ballot box, people got labeled with this on top of everything else.
Since polling has shown Super Tuesday to be full of voters making up their minds shortly before or at the ballot box, people got labeled with this on top of everything else.
I'm glad this was said, the reality some people just aren't able to risk another 4 years of Trump and are looking at risk management. If it means getting the Vice President of Obama into the office to get one of the absolute worse presidents in the history of the US out of office, then so be it.
Thank you for posting this, OP. The sheer amount of dogwhistling in the thread last night was getting so frustrating to see.
Excellent OP!
If you want more insight on how messed up politics in America is for Black folks here is Malcolm X's "Ballot or the Bullet" speech from 1964. It's pathetic that this still applies today:
youtu.be
If you want more insight on how messed up politics in America is for Black folks here is Malcolm X's "Ballot or the Bullet" speech from 1964. It's pathetic that this still applies today:
Malcolm X - Ballot or Bullet
"The Ballot or The Bullet" was a speech by Malcolm X mostly about black nationalism delivered April 12, 1964 in Detroit, Michigan. This speech is in the publ...
youtu.be
Normally, yes, it's a phrase commonly used for rural white voters, following the argument of "What's the Matter with Kansas," which was a major political theory book about how the rural working class became conservative despite that Republicans don't serve their interests.
But, in the aftermath of South Carolina, it was a phrase largely used to describe "South Carolina voters" (The SC Democratic party is overwhelmingly Black)
There's thousands of posts like this on twitter, but this one bubbled up because it evoked some of the strongest reactions.
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Biden's campaign message was basically "don't ask me for shit" BUT ALSO I'm specifically addressing a comment in the damn OP that says "being a black voter is an exercise in harm reduction".
Bet. So you can see why I entered the thread looking for the info. 🤣🤣🤣. Got it. This has been a very enlightening day. The amazing part is that somehow my point seems to have flown clear over your head, while you keep trying to talk down to me. Thank you for allowing me to engage with you.
Great post. I'm disappointed it didn't turn out the way I wanted/thought it was, but if we want to get those voters the next time. You can't shit on them and act exactly like the GOP and expect them to back you next time that only hurts your own credibility.
On the other hand, there's a lot of rhetorical sleight of hand that goes on when the strategic voting of the older black population is treated as a full-throated endorsement.
You neeeeeeeeeeed these black institutions like the black church and Bernie didn't make the moves necessary to win them over
I was *very* surprised to read some """progressive""" arguments about black voters. If your argument sounds like republicans calling afro-americans "ungrateful" for not voting for the party who abolished slavery, it might be a better idea not to say it.
(same could be said about Buttigieg not joining the guy who voted in favor of gay marriage, to some extent)
(same could be said about Buttigieg not joining the guy who voted in favor of gay marriage, to some extent)
Even though I'm a Bernie fan i'll admit out of all the candidates, Elizabeth Warren took race the most seriously and has the most respect for Black folks.
No. I phrased it that way for a reason. "Tales from your ass" is a rude way of saying you're just making shit up. OP clearly didn't. Because his opinions have been validated on this forum numerous times. However, in order to say a large number of black people definitely did a thing for a reason, as a part of a larger conversation about election results, data points would be better. That's it and that's all. I'm not sure why this is so controversial. I don't like when people ascribed motivations to black people without some sort of proof. It us. That should be clear. But I guess my language wasn't clear enough for the mod.
The funny thing is the dogwhistle 'low information' voter discussion shows that even IF the hardcore progressive white wing of the dem party got what they wanted and we ushered into a beautiful nordic socialist dream...those same assholes would find a way to lock those 'low information' voters out of it.
The racism effectively justified their choice by the way they quickly turned against them. And as usual they see the humanity in their Trump voting father ("its sad, he used to be so nice but foxnews brainwashed him") than the poor black man who grew up literally not being able to drink out of a water fountain ("See, they just vote stupid").
As a black voter my thing is that so many of these loud on the internet progressive assholes are quick to talk down (my favorite being is 'Here's my personal hard luck story about M4A' as if black folks don't understand the implications of lack of medical care even when shit is working. Like America is actively trying to kill us even when we are just trying to give birth!
www.heart.org
It just fuels the fact that if they actually passed many of the progressive things that they want to benefit from, they would make sure the resources go to THEM first, lol.
Like, fuck you bitch. How about you get offline and preach to your 20 year old libertarian roommate who doesn't vote because it's bullshit (while his parents are paying his rent), or better yet your proud Trump voting grandmother who lets the gay and race slurs fly. But nope, once again it's the black people's fault that America can't muster up a real progressive movement. African Americans would L-O-V-E to live in Bernie's America, is just we don't believe you guys are being honest with yourselves about making it happen and the low turnout of the young vote is proof in the pudding.
So it goes.
The racism effectively justified their choice by the way they quickly turned against them. And as usual they see the humanity in their Trump voting father ("its sad, he used to be so nice but foxnews brainwashed him") than the poor black man who grew up literally not being able to drink out of a water fountain ("See, they just vote stupid").
As a black voter my thing is that so many of these loud on the internet progressive assholes are quick to talk down (my favorite being is 'Here's my personal hard luck story about M4A' as if black folks don't understand the implications of lack of medical care even when shit is working. Like America is actively trying to kill us even when we are just trying to give birth!
Why are black women at such high risk of dying from pregnancy complications?
Black women are up to four times more likely than white women to die from pregnancy-related complications.
It just fuels the fact that if they actually passed many of the progressive things that they want to benefit from, they would make sure the resources go to THEM first, lol.
Like, fuck you bitch. How about you get offline and preach to your 20 year old libertarian roommate who doesn't vote because it's bullshit (while his parents are paying his rent), or better yet your proud Trump voting grandmother who lets the gay and race slurs fly. But nope, once again it's the black people's fault that America can't muster up a real progressive movement. African Americans would L-O-V-E to live in Bernie's America, is just we don't believe you guys are being honest with yourselves about making it happen and the low turnout of the young vote is proof in the pudding.
So it goes.
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Great post OP. I'm black as well and I usually try to stay out of race discussions because it can get so exhausting but I had to give you props for this
Yes, I understand that now but I do hope you also get it that that's what all older black folks have done. Tried to minimize damage to the community so we younger ones get a better shot at things.
And that devil is known.
There must be this understanding between the older ones and the younger ones. Not saying it's a one way street but their reality have always been a rougher one.
I know what it means sir and I say that it still comes off the same. The intent I read from the post was nothing but saying, as you put it, tales from your ass. We can use every southern fake politeness as we wish but it still reads and sounds untrue.
Great OP addressing an issue that needs attention.
The "low information" narrative is also refuted in a general way by polling data:
poll.qu.edu
Question 2 shows support for candidates based on how much attention voters have paid. Biden does very well here among people paying the closest attention and has historically in Quinnipiac polling.
I think there's lots of room for discussions about what, on average (since there are no absolutely monolithic voting blocs), motivates the African American vote but the evidence certainly doesn't suggest low information or apathy. The fact that a) turnout is so high in this primary, where generally only those very interested participate, and b) higher turnout has favored Biden, and c) much of this turnout is new voters supporting Biden and finally d) Biden's dominance of the AA vote all suggests exactly the opposite.
The "low information" narrative is also refuted in a general way by polling data:
Poll Results | Quinnipiac University Poll
Quinnipiac University Poll’s list of recent and past poll results for political races, state and national elections, and issues of public concern.
poll.qu.edu
Question 2 shows support for candidates based on how much attention voters have paid. Biden does very well here among people paying the closest attention and has historically in Quinnipiac polling.
I think there's lots of room for discussions about what, on average (since there are no absolutely monolithic voting blocs), motivates the African American vote but the evidence certainly doesn't suggest low information or apathy. The fact that a) turnout is so high in this primary, where generally only those very interested participate, and b) higher turnout has favored Biden, and c) much of this turnout is new voters supporting Biden and finally d) Biden's dominance of the AA vote all suggests exactly the opposite.
I'm not from the south, but hey, point taken. Next time I'll do better at getting my original point across.
That led to a good discussion with the panel talking about point number 4 in the OP. They don't have the video on their YouTube channel and I can't check the site here at work, sorry.
EDIT: Rereading the OP, they actually hit on all four points in the OP. Sucks they didn't upload anything from last night.
Castro was up there too.
This is not a good argument to make given 2016's history and trends we're seeing in 2020. Hillary won black voters in SC 84/16. She ended up winning them nationally 75/25. People are aware that southern black voters are going to trend differently than black voters outside the region, but their margins and leans can be used to ballpark overall national support. In the CA primaries results thus far for 2020, Sanders' weakest demographic group is still black voters, even though his margins with black Californians are better relative to the numbers he's getting from black voters living in the south.
edit: Here's exit poll data from California. Biden is still winning black voters 38/18 vs Sanders, and Bloomberg's at 20%! https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/03/us/elections/exit-polls-california-primary.html
Great post OP. I feel like black users on Era have been saying snippets and permutations of this sentiment over the years, but it's nice to have it all written up in a single post.
This detail always sticks out to me. Black people have always been in "just survive" mode, so threatening us with even more white supremacy is not going to be effective. Give us someone who explicitly bases their policy around the racial aspect of our experience. Then you'll turn our heads (but yes, obviously we know a candidate like that would be dead in the water with the general white electorate).
And excellent addition, Nep.
This detail always sticks out to me. Black people have always been in "just survive" mode, so threatening us with even more white supremacy is not going to be effective. Give us someone who explicitly bases their policy around the racial aspect of our experience. Then you'll turn our heads (but yes, obviously we know a candidate like that would be dead in the water with the general white electorate).
Thanks for sharing. I wanted for Bernie to win but whatever. Now it's a matter of everyone voting for Biden come election time to get rid of the filth in the White House and bring relatively "peace" to our hurting communities.
Thank you.
Weirdly enough, the old white lady seemed to give the most fucks about black people. Which is why I was super down for her campaign. Shame that her viability isn't in the cards.
Thanks and please in no way believe I wanted to stifle your opinion. I just read it that way and didn't like how it came off.
All of America's institutions are racist and anti-Black from top to bottom and we are capped at 12-13%, saddled with "allies" politically. This is why we need pro-Black instead of reactionarily Black politicans in office.
The next Black president or a conscientious one for that matter, needs to look at immigration and bring in more of the diaspora. There is a major double standard on the grounds people from certain races and countries can successfully claim asylum on compared to Latin Americans and the Black diaspora, who face worse persecution back home and have higher obstacles to legal status in the courtroom.
It's fucked up and rigged.
The next Black president or a conscientious one for that matter, needs to look at immigration and bring in more of the diaspora. There is a major double standard on the grounds people from certain races and countries can successfully claim asylum on compared to Latin Americans and the Black diaspora, who face worse persecution back home and have higher obstacles to legal status in the courtroom.
It's fucked up and rigged.
In a race full of candidates who fucked up in race matters, Biden serving 8 years in the first black pres's administration helps mitigate much of his issues (ie, spending 1970's racist, lol).
There's an argument to be made he's a proven 'ally' just by this fact. Its less about Biden/Obama, more like the bar is so low
