-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
We need to have a discussion about how members treat other members on this site and among other issues.
- Thread starter Deleted member 5334
- Start date
This is common in a lot of places, but very prevalent here, and ESPECIALLY on EtcetERA side. It's like so many people here operate under the base assumption that good faith should not be offered by default, but only after thorough vetting and litmus testing. People are fucking mean in these parts, and it's worth noting that when I started using this side as my ignore pool, gaming side got better within a couple of weeks.
To OP: sorry you have to deal with asshats in what should be a welcoming environment. Don't sleep on the ignore function! It shouldn't have to be the only way to address this problem, but it really does help to customize your user experience into one that's friendlier over time!
So what you're saying is, you'd rather backseat mod because you don't trust the moderation team to do their job?
Last edited:
Hey friend,
That thread got locked before I could reply to your post, but I wasn't saying that you were cat fishing anyone; I was disagreeing and calling out the person using the term "fatfishing" and even applying that to your situation. I hope you didn't think I was piling on you there, and I'm sorry if that post upset you. It wasn't my intent at all.
So it's backseat modding now to call out and criticize transphobia? Because it should be a standard habit of all posters to foster an environment in which posts like that are not allowed to exist.
I'm saying that if I see transphobia I'm going to speak out against it because it benefits me and others like me to make this forum a place where our existences aren't called into dispute. Very funny misinterpretation of my post tho.
Transphobia is clearly against the rules though. Why wouldn't you just ignore it, report it, and move along with your day? Why even engage? Unless you don't trust the moderation team to handle a transphobic post.
I think that is clearly the case. I don't trust the mods to do their job because each one of them is different and they aren't on all the time. So there is no consistency.
My post had nothing to do with the moderation. If you're actually curious about my thoughts on that subject, their record with trans threads the past few months has been abysmal. Thankfully they are taking steps to address this, but sure, it would be accurate to say that I have not been able to trust moderation to handle anything but the most egregious instances of transphobia.
That being said, the quality of moderation here has not and will never have any bearing on any attempts to combat transphobia on my part. As a trans woman, it is a subject inexorably tied to my life. I believe egregious transphobia should be condemned in the harshest of terms. I'll always be ready to add my voice to the chorus in these situations. But it needs to be said that transphobia manifests in myriad ways, oftentimes with no malice intended. In these situations, it behooves me to point out what is transphobic so that both the person who was unknowingly transphobic, as well as any onlookers, will be able to learn and grow from the experience.
To be frank, your understanding of what constitutes transphobia sounds a bit naive, so I'd recommend checking out many of the trans threads here to see what we deal with so consistently.
They work hard but can't be everywhere, and it's the duty of every community to self-police to some degree, we can't just expect a small group of volunteers to settle every dispute. Also, it helps to further engage with potential edge-case opinions in order to determine a user's ultimate intent and to build a case or pattern for the mod team to be able to refer to if necessary.
I don't think this should be a thread where bans are re-litigated, but speaking to your opinion, the only opinion you should have is to not hit kids, there is objectively a wrong opinion in this case proven by a vast amount of studies.
Last edited:
Ughh so i can't pretend to know what to poster you quoted was referring to, but what's frustrating isn't when you get dog piled or "cancelled" for a joke in poor taste or something- homophobic, sexist, racist, etc. There is no problem dumping on someone for that. The issue is when something benign happens and somehow in a roundabout way you get labeled a trumper or alt righter (obviously it goes way beyond that given the subject of the thread but I'm jumping into this particular argument). Totally fine to be blunt in your view if it's justified, but it just so happens that not everyone is a trumper. Again for instance as I've pointed out before, me saying I'm worried about Bernie's chances after a heart attack does not make me an alt right concern troll. Somebody in the bk lawsuit thread saying "let's not sue the one corporation pushing meat replacement and possibly have others avoid it for that reason" doesn't make that person alt right bootlicking scum, which btw good on the mods for banning the poster who said that.
OP
OP
For anyone that's probably been wondering: I'm still here and been reading the thread. Just been difficult to comment on more than what I've said, especially since I'm not sure the best way to word it. I've been communicating with a mod about concerns about this topic a bit, for the record, so I am seeing everything. Apologizes if it seemed like I abandoned the thread (I haven't).
That aside...
For the record, you're good! I had to double check to make sure which post was yours in the old thread. Sorry if it made it seem like it was everyone in that thread, which I guess I should've made it clear that it wasn't everyone.
That aside...
For the record, you're good! I had to double check to make sure which post was yours in the old thread. Sorry if it made it seem like it was everyone in that thread, which I guess I should've made it clear that it wasn't everyone.
Yes haha posting from my phone my bad! Post updated.
Edit- point of that post is people are very much on edge these days and I can understand and totally empathize with that, but it also makes for an extremely hostile environment. Im not oppressed in anyway, and I don't feel that way, but I can very much say I avoid posting much at all compared to what I used to and that's about pretty casual topics including hobbies and gaming. For people who post serious situations that get taken out of context and absolutely hammered for it for no reason it kinda tells you a lot on this forum want to be part of a gotcha dog pile moment.
I don't think I've cast anyone as being a Trump supporter or alt-right member. I've said a few times I agree with the wider discourse issue in places. I don't visit the politics OT so can't speak to that but I commented in that parenthood vs. the end of the world thread saying it was an extreme response/position. I don't believe we're at odds, this part of a prior post sums up my end: I'm speaking specifically about people using topics like this as a springboard to propagate the narrative that people are handled unfairly in threads over sensitive (minority) topics. It's a complete reversal of the issue that's been brought to light and finally acknowledged the past week.
Thought I was going mad lol - post above!
Yes we're in agreement. As I've said I fully understand tensions being high and people being guarded in highly sensitive topics. I think it CAN go too far where somebody said something completely harmless (not a joke not "just asking questions) but it's very rare. That being said issues like the OPs example prove that people are quick to judge and shame without allowing for any room for interpretation. I also think it leaks over into a lot of pretty neutral topics, where a lot of the usual subjects are there dumping on people with absolutist statements in a condescending tone, often using whatever buzzword they just learned on Twitter to dump on someone.
Sounds like an egregious enough of a problem that I'd no longer want to be part of such a community if I felt the way you do about how it is ran.
This is a situation where I agree and disagree at the same time. Egregious transphobia should be condemned. However, because it has been called out as a clear rule violation, it isn't your responsibility to address. "Don't take the law into your own hands" for lack of a better way to put it. And if the transphobia is unknowingly to all but an expert eye such as yourself then maybe you should be working with the moderation team to help them understand it since they're the ones who will be enforcing things and keeping the community safe. Otherwise, the majority of the time, you're just feeding the trolls.
We all know they can't be everywhere, that's common sense, not sure why it keeps getting mentioned. That is what the report button is for. And again, it is not the community's job to self police or to vet posters. Unless I missed that portion in the TOS.
It's not your job to tell the trans community how to handle transphobia toward us, but here we are.
The difference is that the direction I'm giving is based on the TOS. All this talk of "self policing", "adding to the chorus", and trying "to determine a user's ultimate intent" is based on what? Nothing, other than wanting to bypass the rules and the moderation team.
I'm not sure as to your point - do you not trust the mods to determine who is backseat moderating?
I have modded extremely large forums for literally years, it is absolutely on the community to determine the content they want represented, the opinions that are acceptable or unacceptable, and the culture of the forum. You do not ban your way to a new culture once you have reached a high activity level or size, it cannot be done. If you have an issue with posters being asked hard questions or being asked to elaborate on their positions, I think it's silly but I guess it's an issue that can be raised.
I said DAMN Kyuuji!
It's the consequence of people treating their forum conversations like normal conversations: If someone says something that's fucked up, people generally tell them so.
I don't get involved in certain threads that carry a lot of this chaos, but this discussion makes me think about the recent Bill Gates that was locked due to the OP intentionally removing important context to change the interpretation of what was actually said: https://www.resetera.com/threads/bi...a-hypothetical-warren-v-trump-matchup.151627/
There was another thread created after this due to the issues with the first one. I think that sometimes when this happens even to a slight extent, that can lead to poor discussion, which will automatically create a hostile situation where posters will go to extremes and make certain assumptions about people, then attack them. In the thread above and the new thread that was created, there were so many drive by posts by people who didn't actually read the thread.
There was another thread created after this due to the issues with the first one. I think that sometimes when this happens even to a slight extent, that can lead to poor discussion, which will automatically create a hostile situation where posters will go to extremes and make certain assumptions about people, then attack them. In the thread above and the new thread that was created, there were so many drive by posts by people who didn't actually read the thread.
Nice job answering a question with a question. If you can't see my point then I don't know what to tell you. At the end of the day, backseat modding isn't what's under question by the OP or many of these similar types of threads we've had over the last couple of weeks. ResetEra being a safe space and what that looks like and how to get there is what is in question. Making up your own rules and bypassing the TOS isn't how to get there IMO.
But to answer your question, I do trust the mods to identify backseat modding. However, the issue they currently face is that if they ban someone from a marginalized group for backseat modding something like transphobia then there will be a huge backlash against the staff and the site. Similar to what we saw a few days ago. And nobody wants to lose traffic/$ so here we are in a place where the TOS can be walked all over. As I said in a previous post, I don't envy their position.
And that's fine, but the responses aren't that simple. People are being piled on and labeled bigots. People who have been a part of this community and its predecessor for 20 years. Go read in some of the threads out there how afraid people are to post. Hell, I'm sure people are lighting up the report button on some of my posts in here.
It's like cold war-esque paranoia. I call it the Red Hat Scare. To be honest, I have had to bite my tongue in a few replies because of this. I think it's the fact that the very conceit of this website was rooted in an ideological exodus, and anyone that deviated it from even the slightest was to be piled on by members who thought they were an abstract enemy.
you're saying that like "sexual assault is bad" is a controversial ideology.
Why are you so concerned with it then? That's what you've been going at people for lol. Why are you so concerned with, and vehemently against, the trans community calling out transphobic comments? There's no need for it.
You're completely right — it isn't what the threads have been about the past week, they've been about the issue of people policing how trans people respond to issues related to ourselves. The thing you're doing right now.
This:
Telling trans people visibly rebuking transphobia within the community that they're doing it for no reason other than to skirt the rules?
Lmao, good lord. All this over trans people calling out transphobia.
I love how this conversation has gone. We're now calling trans members speaking up against transphobia a TOS violation, based on some warped definition of what constitutes backseat modding. And I appreciate your candor in letting us know you care more about the feelings of people scared of being called out for spouting bigotry more than you care about the feelings of marginalized groups who have to confront that bigotry, on a forum that prides itself on being an inclusive place for those very groups. Here's something you might not have considered: none of us want to have to constantly call this stuff out. Nothing would make me happier than if these threads weren't consistently filled to the brim with bile. But they have been, and we don't have the privilege to be able to ignore it. And that's how we got to the current situation.
Im not a big fan of this kind of grandstanding. If there is a particular topic on which you think that discussion has been stifled unfairly then it bears airing out in public.
By not being specific you provide ammunition to those who might assume the worst.
I gotta say, lots of people here do go crazy and assume the worst. Not only that, theres an attempt at mind-reading and trying to discern the intentions by spending time digging through old posts to prove the person is a scumbag.
If it makes you happy, like whatever, its your time to waste, not mine. I don't think it's a mentally healthy way and in a way the nazis won by living rent free inside your heads.
I firmly blame Extreme Onlineness for this. Nobody cant force anyone to knock it off, but me and others have made their points. So let the chips fall where they may.
If it makes you happy, like whatever, its your time to waste, not mine. I don't think it's a mentally healthy way and in a way the nazis won by living rent free inside your heads.
I firmly blame Extreme Onlineness for this. Nobody cant force anyone to knock it off, but me and others have made their points. So let the chips fall where they may.
Where did I say that? or are you just looking for conflict? You can put anything in those quotes and it'd make as much sense.
I don't have specifics, but it's not grandstanding. You don't have to look too in-depth to find caustic attitudes here. Some of the most popular topics on the OT is just 20 pages of people sniping eachother over a simple misunderstanding, deliberate or not. It just sends the message that people here prefer to antagonize and tear eachother down for any given reason, no matter how small it is. To be quite honest, even if I were to be specific, you'd still "assume the worst". anyway.
Eh I personally feel past comments should be fair game (if a point is being made by showing them). I have 9000 posts, I don't hide my profile, anyone is free to go back and if I've said anything dumb or whatever please let me know so I can apologize and do better, but I have nothing to hide. People should stand behind what they say.
User Banned (1 Month): Dismissing Concerns of Transphobia
If I go to the gaming side and I call out and accuse someone of being a fanboy then I'll be banned for backseat modding. If I call someone out on this side for being transphobic then why should it be any different?
I've got great news, there's a feature just for that!
And if you feel like the site allows so much "bile" that the ignore function wouldn't be able to keep up, then I'd ask you what I asked a previous poster, why stay?
Nah, fuck that. One doesn't ignore transphobia.I've got great news, there's a feature just for that!
And if you feel like the site allows so much "bile" that the ignore function wouldn't be able to keep up, then I'd ask you what I asked a previous poster, why stay?
"Ignore it or leave" being your response to transphobic content is honestly repulsive, regardless of how subtle you think you're dressing the point up. It's not a TOS violation to call out transphobic content and rebuke it. You're the one citing the TOS to trans members while telling them they're backseat moderating. Perhaps stop projecting about that and safe spaces when you're the one getting bent out of shape for fear of moderation because people are being asked to post with tact and consideration around sensitive issues.
edit: Good to see swift action from the mods, appreciated.
Last edited:
dude, the idea of fanboyism is a product of internet/gaming culture and is inextricable from the arbitration of forum discourse. transphobia is a real thing in the real world that falls outside of the jurisdiction of forum moderating.
in what world is someone being a fanboy in anyway comparable to transphobia.
edit:fixed my words.
Can't believe we have someone saying that users shouldn't call out bigotry because it's a breach of the TOS. I guess if the community felt that the moderation here was sufficient then there wouldn't be a need to act directly, but here we are. And to be honest, it's everyone's duty to call out bigotry, not just the mods. The more people who speak out against it, the stronger the message that it's unacceptable.
Also, the idea that there are huge swathes of users who are afraid to post is pretty funny - as has already been mentioned in this thread, part of the problem here is that you have endless hordes of users queuing up to insert themselves and their hot takes into every single thread, regardless of whether they're actually adding anything whatsoever (and indeed, often they are doing the opposite). If people in general read more and posted less then this would be a better place.
And comparing computer games fanboyism to transphobia is nonsense. Sorry, but that's a terrible comparison.
Also, the idea that there are huge swathes of users who are afraid to post is pretty funny - as has already been mentioned in this thread, part of the problem here is that you have endless hordes of users queuing up to insert themselves and their hot takes into every single thread, regardless of whether they're actually adding anything whatsoever (and indeed, often they are doing the opposite). If people in general read more and posted less then this would be a better place.
And comparing computer games fanboyism to transphobia is nonsense. Sorry, but that's a terrible comparison.
Why should she be the one that has to be pushed out? This is one of the few gaming forums that is open to minorities, if you just give up to the abuse, more minorities move out and the place gets worse with the bigorty and then even more minorities move out and the cycle continues. And if the mods actually thought it was backseat modding they would call out, but they don't.If I go to the gaming side and I call out and accuse someone of being a fanboy then I'll be banned for backseat modding. If I call someone out on this side for being transphobic then why should it be any different?
I've got great news, there's a feature just for that!
And if you feel like the site allows so much "bile" that the ignore function wouldn't be able to keep up, then I'd ask you what I asked a previous poster, why stay?
Are they made with cocunut flour and sugar free syrupt? Oh, and a bit of sugar free whipped cream on top?
They certainly can be, the whipped cream is invisible though!
---> 🥞 🥞
Have a great weekend!
People left the old site because of Tyler's actions, not because of any ideological conflict. By labeling it as an ideological conflict, you are dismissing the personal actions of the previous owner, and the concerns of people who did not approve of his personal actions.
So, in that way, you are the one creating the conflict here.
Last edited:
I hope AZ Greg's posts here, his twisting of legitimate complaints from trans posters into some sort of effort to upstage the mods and bypass the rules, and his complaining about people being 'afraid to post' while telling trans people to leave the forum if they don't like it here, provide some insight into the kind of disingenuity that constantly creeps into the discussion of trans issues here.
Edit: Also wanted to say I appreciate the ban.
Edit: Also wanted to say I appreciate the ban.