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Deleted member 20284

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,889
This is the perfect example of the type of post that should not be posted and contributes to a toxic environment on this site.

It displays a complete lack of empathy and demonstrates victim blaming tendencies. Then finishes with an exclusionary message that is basically telling the person they are responding to to leave the community if they are unwilling to put up with bad actors.

Just an overall toxic post

I disagree. It's a realistic post. Look up the locus of control. You can control and alter yourself for the better. Changing, educating and generally altering the wider community or environments you operate within is outside of your control (for the most part). The post isn't being toxic by intention, in fact empathy is objectively demonstrated in that post. This idea the world will cater for every whim in every situation is utopian at best.

Reminder: This isn't a staffed community. It's moderated by some volunteers who do their best. They include the same highs and lows of moral fibre the community does. So many tout diversity and inclusion yet are so deaf when differing points of view are posted.

In reality you control what you post and how you personally react and treat others. You don't get to control how others interpret or react to what you put in a public place. Moderation is there for the extremities by nature of volunteer work, outside of that wake up to the sandbox you're playing in is sound advice, such as SubvertedTrope posted.
 

kmfdmpig

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
19,354
The problem is I have on a couple occasions attempt to report some users and it took the cat calling bump thread I mentioned above, for a user to get banned. I don't feel the report system is reliable and I feel bad saying this, but it's absolutely true. I don't think the systems in place are enough to keep me and other users safe.
What happens to users with questionable posts is so inconsistent that it's hard to have a ton of faith in reporting anything. I was banned for 5 days for complimenting a joke that was deemed offensive, as was the person making the joke initially. The exact same joke is currently in the title for a thread with 300k+ views and tons of mod/admin posts. I see some heinous posts get warned or ignored altogether and some fairly benign ones get major bans. I share your lack of confidence in the systems, lack of appeals process and lack of real transparency.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
This is good advice for the OP. Becareful posting anything too personal over the internet. Save that information for professionals with knowledge and empathy for others.
While generally this can be good advice, I've found a lot of help and support from others on this forum for extremely personal and traumatic experiences. The generally anonymous nature of the forum makes it much easier for myself and others to discuss traumatic experiences they've had, because sometimes discussing that sort of thing with people you know in real life can be very scary and also invite risk of rejection, judgement, ostracization, etc. Those risks still exist in online interactions in communities like this one, but the consequences are much less severe.

Just as some examples, some people might find it difficult to come out as gay or trans in their real life social circles, but are more comfortable doing so here. Or people may be more comfortable discussing sexual harassment, assault, or abuse if they've been victimized.
 
Sep 14, 2018
4,620
This is the perfect example of the type of post that should not be posted and contributes to a toxic environment on this site.

It displays a complete lack of empathy and demonstrates victim blaming tendencies. Then finishes with an exclusionary message that is basically telling the person they are responding to to leave the community if they are unwilling to put up with bad actors.

Just an overall toxic post

This is a perfect example of the type of post that immediately assumes the worst of imagined intentions and contributes to a toxic environment.

You got everything wrong, that's all I'll say, goodbye.
 

Scarlet Death

Member
Oct 25, 2017
939
Seattle, WA
I've also been dealing with mental health and a developmental disorder that frequently puts me in situations like the OP. I stopped making personal threads in 2016. It ultimately proved to be too harmful for my mental health, which was what I was trying to help by posting in the first place? I've started getting better at being honest with my boundaries as I've learned more about my communication disabilities. When necessary I will straight up say that I can't discuss something any further unless it's in good faith and explain why. Already having trouble being understood, a flood of overgeneralizations and bad faith takes every sentence sometimes would just make put me in a bad place. IRL I might go nonverbal for a while or have a panic attack.

Not only the moderators here, but I think we could all benefit from understanding some people's brains just process and receive information differently. It's fucking stresful having to mask and emulate just to keep the peace all the time. It's my respnosibility if I want to be understood, but I know a good chunk of my friends changed their behaviour after famliariazing themselves with some reading material.
 

BLEEN

Member
Oct 27, 2017
21,876
What happens to users with questionable posts is so inconsistent that it's hard to have a ton of faith in reporting anything. I was banned for 5 days for complimenting a joke that was deemed offensive, as was the person making the joke initially. The exact same joke is currently in the title for a thread with 300k+ views and tons of mod/admin posts. I see some heinous posts get warned or ignored altogether and some fairly benign ones get major bans. I share your lack of confidence in the systems, lack of appeals process and lack of real transparency.
Which thread? Curious

And you can appeal. The CONTACT US link on the bottom of every page. Have had to appeal my bans twice. If I get perma'd again it's probably over for me. And yeah, the reasons people get banned sometimes is, imo, way too strict. I feel more warnings should be used. But they are used less than outright bans. I've mentioned this to staff before as well. I'm sure moderating ain't easy and people are stretched thin so I at least feel for 'em.

I love this community, with its problems and all tho. ♥️
 

kmfdmpig

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
19,354
Which thread? Curious

And you can appeal. The CONTACT US link on the bottom of every page. Have had to appeal my bans twice. If I get perma'd again it's probably over for me. And yeah, the reasons people get banned sometimes is, imo, way too strict. I feel more warnings should be used. But they are used less than outright bans. I've mentioned this to staff before as well. I'm sure moderating ain't easy and people are stretched thin so I at least feel for 'em.
The NBA thread with the LeBron nickname mocking his allegiance to the CCP. Ban worthy one minute and then seen by thousands for weeks without a problem the next. I did use the contact us link and never heard back. I was unimpressed. Yes, I agree that it is tough to be a mod and subjectivity will always play a role. The processes themselves could be better, however.
 

mxbison

Banned
Jan 14, 2019
2,148
I visit MMA forums, bodybuilding forums, fighting game forums, pretty much everything where you'd think they are toxic shit holes.

This site is by far the most hostile....

You get attacked so quickly for nothing, it's crazy.
 

Deleted member 42055

User requested account closure
Banned
Apr 12, 2018
11,215
The NBA thread with the LeBron nickname mocking his allegiance to the CCP. Ban worthy one minute and then seen by thousands for weeks without a problem the next. I did use the contact us link and never heard back. I was unimpressed. Yes, I agree that it is tough to be a mod and subjectivity will always play a role. The processes themselves could be better, however.

I remember that, some Asian* members thought it racist to have the play on his name... and now it's the title of an OT.

I would agree on the Popeyes racism thread example as well. Pages of people being ok with violence, outright advocating it, all while a mod was engaging in the discussion. Yet people have caught bans over advocating violence against Trump..

Heck, Iwas told " youre not an ally that's for sure" because I didn't agree with the level of violence present in that Popeyes thread. I could only laugh it off and exit, the thread had become outright " with us or against us" toxic.

Point being OP sometimes you have to know when to dip out of threads for your own sanity
 

ItIsOkBro

Happy New Year!!
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,485
everyone thinks they're some kind of master fucking detective deducer that knows the true intentions behind every post.

the thing is, 85% of the time they're right because bad faith posters can be so obvious, especially given the timing of their post and language used.

85% is pretty high right...but why even repeatedly engage with them in the first place? either you're wrong and you aggravate a legit poster with your hot accusations or you're right and you give the person what they want and contribute to derailing the whole ass thread.

anyhow this came to mind because i remember recently seeing someone legitimately asking a question and they got hit with a "oh yea right you're just asking questions huh I see right though you" and i was like gotdamn.
 
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Oct 29, 2017
2,047
everyone thinks they're some kind of master fucking detective deducer that knows the true intentions behind every post.

the thing is, 85% of the time they're right because bad faith posters can be so obvious, especially given the timing of their post and language used.

85% is pretty high right...but why even engage with them in the first place? either you're wrong and you annoy a legit poster with your hot accusations or you're right and you give the person what they want and contribute to derailing the whole ass thread.

anyhow this came to mind because i remember recently seeing someone legitimately asking a question and they got hit with a "oh yea right you're just asking questions huh I see right though you" and i was like gotdamn.

"You ain't slick."

Oh, okay, Cool-Ass Forum Detective.
 

Chaos Legion

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,912
Would having more dedicated subforums help stop people from entering threads with less than noble intentions? Etcetera hosts so many topics about virtually every subject, I just wonder if that causes some of the problems.
 

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,359
I think some of the prior posts are right. People do have a tendency to take someone's posts and exaggerate them to an unintended extreme. Not necessarily out of malice, but because we're all so used to trolls, JAQ'ers, concern trolls, etc. that it's hard for a lot of people to just take someone at their word, especially when it's not in agreement with you.

Another thing is that a lot of our communities are very clique-ish. A lot of people, whether they are new members or old members entering an unfamiliar OT might feel unwelcome as a small group of friends ridicule the new person's post. To be clear, this isn't a universal thing. Some communites are more welcoming than others, but I think it's something worth working on.

One last tip. As a former mod I would ask you to always try to be as helpful with your reports as possible. Describe exactly what rule you think a post is violating and whether they are doing it over multiple posts. Reports that are just "Why is this allowed?" "Do something about this." "Ban this person." Often leave mods scratching their heads when a violation isn't as obvious to them as it is to you. You have the benefit of the thread's context, it helps to share that context with the staff to get violations processed faster.
 

PixelatedDonut

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,966
Philly ❤️
This is a perfect example of the type of post that immediately assumes the worst of imagined intentions and contributes to a toxic environment.

You got everything wrong, that's all I'll say, goodbye.
This. Like the lack of perspective is crazy to me....idk like some here I also deal with mental illness. Maybe it's my anxiety and depression idk, but the 0 to 100 post and gotcha attempts run rampant.
 

Cipherr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,426
I think youre setting too high a standard for this place OP. Even the best moderated places wont be perfect. In general i dont think there is any truly safe places on the internet sadly. Better to talk to your true friends and family if you really need support.

I disagree. Because this same community has been better at it in the past than they are now. Its absolutely a side effect of what is allowed and what isnt. People push and push and push, and when unchecked, more people start to do the same thing. The point the other poster made about backfires is another good point too. Ive also noticed it.


everyone thinks they're some kind of master fucking detective deducer that knows the true intentions behind every post.

the thing is, 85% of the time they're right because bad faith posters can be so obvious, especially given the timing of their post and language used.

85% is pretty high right...but why even repeatedly engage with them in the first place? either you're wrong and you aggravate a legit poster with your hot accusations or you're right and you give the person what they want and contribute to derailing the whole ass thread.

anyhow this came to mind because i remember recently seeing someone legitimately asking a question and they got hit with a "oh yea right you're just asking questions huh I see right though you" and i was like gotdamn.


YES! To the bolded especially. It creates a problem, because while shooting bad actors is important, when overly aggressive you kill any chance for legit learning and conversation in those same threads by assuming the worst and dismissing someone else because of what you "thought" they meant. Whats sad is in the other thread about moderation posters were calling for extending that behavior to perma banning anyone thought or assumed to be posting in bad faith; which would make things even WORSE. Would just end up throwing away 20% of well intentioned people that could be great parts of the community all because you can't either ignore a post, report it and let the mods deduce intent, or I dont know... try talking to the person to be sure before condemning someones character.

Aside from the fact that you don't have to interact with a poster if you arent certain of their intentions, it takes very little back and forth to seriously figure out if they are discussing, saying or asking something in good faith. No need to be so trigger happy.
 

thewienke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,936
Yeah, I feel like too often we assume the worst out of someone

I'm half quoting you because I feel that that drives a lot of issues not just here but on the internet as well. Also to add on to that, people want to get their sick burns in as quick as possible with little regard for the person on the other side. Everyone on the internet is disposable and treated as such.


Heck, Iwas told " youre not an ally that's for sure" because I didn't agree with the level of violence present in that Popeyes thread. I could only laugh it off and exit, the thread had become outright " with us or against us" toxic.

Point being OP sometimes you have to know when to dip out of threads for your own sanity

On the occasions when I believe a poster is being genuine (and not concern trolling, JAQing, etc) and they get dismissed with the "you ain't slicks" and "you're not an ally"s, I kinda roll my eyes a bit.

How many out of the thousands and thousands of members here do more than vote and try to educate the people around them about progressive causes? How many don't even do that much?

I guess at the end of the day, the personal growth that readers experience by going through threads discussing social justice issues or politics or any controversial topic is valuable. But when someone says "you are not an ally" to a random post it doesn't really mean a lot because your actions offline dictate that more than anything. Who we are when we put the phone down or step away from the computer is really what counts in the grand scheme of things.
 

PixelatedDonut

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,966
Philly ❤️
yeah he left, the reasoning as far as i remember he was tired/pissed about some stuff on poliera and another thread i think bernie discussion was involved.
Yeah some toxic people who frequent poliera would go into threads he made and write passive aggressive/drive-by shitpost that would take over the discussion of those threads. It's really shitty because I really loved his contributions to this community. As people have said in this thread, there's a group of people who are always looking for gotcha/was to antagonize other posters.
 

Maximus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,586
I think some of the prior posts are right. People do have a tendency to take someone's posts and exaggerate them to an unintended extreme. Not necessarily out of malice, but because we're all so used to trolls, JAQ'ers, concern trolls, etc. that it's hard for a lot of people to just take someone at their word, especially when it's not in agreement with you.

Another thing is that a lot of our communities are very clique-ish. A lot of people, whether they are new members or old members entering an unfamiliar OT might feel unwelcome as a small group of friends ridicule the new person's post. To be clear, this isn't a universal thing. Some communites are more welcoming than others, but I think it's something worth working on.

One last tip. As a former mod I would ask you to always try to be as helpful with your reports as possible. Describe exactly what rule you think a post is violating and whether they are doing it over multiple posts. Reports that are just "Why is this allowed?" "Do something about this." "Ban this person." Often leave mods scratching their heads when a violation isn't as obvious to them as it is to you. You have the benefit of the thread's context, it helps to share that context with the staff to get violations processed faster.

Exactly, these are great observations and it's nice to hear a former mod point these things out.
 

travisbickle

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,953
Reality is you need to be pretty chill to accept the opinions of hundreds if not thousands of other people when you give up personal information about your life online. Opinions you have to literally read yourself presented in text format on social media/forums, interpreted in your own mind influenced by however you feel at that moment. The internet is a pretty bad format for people who have anxiety and/or issues with communication, ironically it's like a moth to a flame for those same people. As someone who grew up pre-internet, you would share your opinion with a small group of friends/family and keep most of it to yourself.
 

Croc Man

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,546
I think some of the prior posts are right. People do have a tendency to take someone's posts and exaggerate them to an unintended extreme. Not necessarily out of malice, but because we're all so used to trolls, JAQ'ers, concern trolls, etc. that it's hard for a lot of people to just take someone at their word, especially when it's not in agreement with you.
Yeah that's the big one. I get why people are like that with all the assholes emboldened by the current climate but it leads to normal people getting shouted down and ironically risking pushing them towards the extremes. An obvious example irl not just online is Brexit, vote leave and you're a racist, remain you're a traitor. Point out most aren't at either extreme in an argument and you get "both sides".
 

Glasfrut

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,535
Messy post following because I'm not sure how to parse what I'm currently thinking:

I think there's something inherently broken with how we communicate on the internet.

First, we use the internet as a weird public personal space we wouldn't in real life. People go online to vent first and maybe understand after (or find others to vent alongside). We talk more forcefully and bluntly than we would in real life or with our actual voices.

Second, like a poster mentioned before - a lot of these issues people are venting on are complex and not the easiest for people to break down and engage with. Not sure with what we're dealing with - we pinpoint the easiest part we empathize or disagree with.

Third, the venting goes in all directions. People saying out loud "I don't get it" to people saying "this issue frustrates me given my own circumstances/experiences". I think it can be frustrating for a PoC to be told "I don't get it/chill" because we hear that off the internet too. But perhaps some posters who say that feel they can't say the same at school/work/in public so they use this space to pop that shot off. Or they legit say it hoping to be schooled because it would be crowned elsewhere.

If we take the racism/popeyes thread mentioned - there's two (major) streams in that thread: 1. People who are rightfully appalled by the violent response but most likely do not experience racism to the level or extent that People (number) 2. who constantly face racial microaggressions and outright racism consistently enough to understand how the guy reacted.

Each side vents a thought at opposite ends in the thread and takes the least charitable understanding of the other: Either people are okay with violence, or people are okay with racism.

Is there a middle? I don't think that's the answer or the issue. But we often don't ask or try to understand "Why do you feel that way?". Because it's our own public personal space, we don't like the idea of less control (saying: okay, I get that person feels different in my space and that's okay). Maybe we're all mistakenly feeling this is our body and trying to nuke infections.

The Biden/voter thread earlier was like this. People jump in to vent but load up with: how can all these people be so stupid or uninformed. That slowly develops to 1. People that think like this don't support real (radical) change and fighting it shows how dumb you really are vs. 2. Hey, any position short of understanding means you feel PoC voters are dumb. Can't you see why some of them would do this?

Maybe due to the lack of immediate feedback when we say something (As we type vs real life where we can gauge how people are responding as we talk and in turn modulate), people often default to hyperbole.

All this mess of a post to say I think the public personal space aspect of the internet is fuelling a lot of this aggression.
 

RexNovis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,154
Ok having read through most of the thread you linked while there are some jerks in there I feel like the vast majority of the people in that thread were genuine and attempting to be understanding and helpful.

Seems to me you are misreading intent or attributing malice where there is none which is easy to do when you have low self esteem and are suspicious of everything anyone says about or to you.

that's not to say there aren't jerks. There are. But in my experience they tend to be addressed when pointed out the vast majority of the time.

I guess what I'm saying is that if you're not in a mental or emotional place to accept constructive criticism then you shouldn't be posting threads about your life and the issues you're facing. In the end it's the people that care that will dare to be blunt and honest with you about how to address those issues. It doesn't mean they are cruel or mean it means that they want to help you and that often times necessitates uncomfortable honesty.
 

Roytheone

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,140
I feel era is getting worse and worse by the week. It used to be pretty good but now it is just a toxic, aggressive place most of the time. A shame :(
 

Gifmaker

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
964
A place that in large amounts defines itself over how much better it is in certain regards than most other places, certainly has a risk of generating a sense of elitism, which is ultimately what contributes to a lot of your problems, OP. For a place that prouds itself of its progressiveness and tolerance, ERA has struck me as pretty unforgiving and closeminded for a while now. It must be great to go with the flow, but heaven forbid if you strive against the stream. On the other hand, someone mentioned a few posts earlier how this place has to put up with a lot of trolls, jerks and other people of that kind, so I can understand to a certain extend how people may be wary of certain behaviours and stuff. But at the end of the day, sometimes people simply are just asking questions, and not following an alt-right playbook or something. It can be hard to differentiate between the two though, especially in a place as large as this with as many members. If you are not a relatively well-known poster, people will have a tough time being certain of your intentions. Everybody can misjudge somebody, and if you feel you are being misjudged unfairly, confront people about it. If they continue to misjudge you despite calling them out on it, it's their fault.
 

nsilvias

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,722
I visit MMA forums, bodybuilding forums, fighting game forums, pretty much everything where you'd think they are toxic shit holes.

This site is by far the most hostile....

You get attacked so quickly for nothing, it's crazy.
i agree, while reddit has a bad rep out here even the shitty subreddits i was apart of were more chill despite all the shitposting.
 

VikingJoseph

Member
Oct 27, 2017
271
Era members calling parents? Eh? What I miss?
I believe the poster was saying that people were calling posters that were parents climate change deniers. Lots of people on this forum have bought into the idea that parenting is selfish and irresponsible because bringing more people into the world causes climate change. It is a really toxic thought process and it is insane to actually see those ideas out in the open- and not just by one or two extreme people, but lots!
 
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LookAtMeGo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,136
a parallel universe
I believe the poster was saying that people were calling posters that were parents climate change deniers. Lots of people on this forum have bought into the idea that parenting is a selfish and irresponsible because bringing more people into the world causes climate change. It is a really toxic process and it is insane to actually see those ideas out in the open- and not just by one or two extreme people, but lots!
I see. Yeah that's dumb. The comma threw me off a bit lol
 

cognizant

Member
Dec 19, 2017
13,751
I don't post much outside smaller threads and community threads, since most times if I post in a larger or popular thread if I make one mistake or don't clarify something enough, I'll get multiple people "no u wrong" back to back.

I'm not someone who has an issue if one person mentions it and that's it, but when it's a gang up it doesn't really want to make you post in those kind of threads anymore.

It's like when you have people drive by posting, where getting in that zinger is more important than actually contributing to the thread.

I have the exact opposite problem. I've tried to take part in Hangout threads in the past but always felt like I'd gatecrashed a party and got the cold shoulder. Also experienced some passive aggressive posts questioning why I was even writing posts about the thread topic... because being off topic and in-jokes are the way to go apparently. So I don't visit hangout threads anymore. Not the friendliest place.

The PC OT thread in gaming is cool though. *thumbs up*
 

ArkkAngel007

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
4,994
Parent? Climate change denier

Live in a suburb and not the city? Racist

Recognize problematic place has service that should be emulated to draw people away from it due to it's homophobic history? You're the homophobe

Ask a question to learn and make up for any ignorance on subjects to avoid AltTube BS? Just google it or you're a Forever Trumper.

Posts chide others that only the POC, LGBTQ+ member, or women who are affected by the thread subject get a say, and when they come forward? Sorry, your opinion doesn't match mine, so it doesn't count.

There's a bizarre and hostile discourse here that seems more eager to hear their own echo than actually want any change or support. I honestly shouldn't be afraid to post thoughts that generally align what would be far left in the US and interest to better myself for fear of it being taken out of context, but generally I just lurk and hope someone else takes the risk and that it goes well.

Yes, trolls and those posting in bad faith do exist here, there's no denying that. Issues like the acephobe subject do occur from time to time. Assuming that's the default, however, doesn't speak well at all of our community.

The OT threads are calmer, but also can be a bit cliquish to where it's hard to take part or kickoff any discussion on your end, leading to things getting pretty cold and more of a pleasant lurk experience.

Idk, the other place for a while and early on here was a lot calmer and level typically outside of high profile review threads or primary election threads, and I don't think we've shifted from being a primarily left friendly forum to account for the uptick in heat. Just hope things can settle a bit soon, and people who are gloves up on default will be given reason to breathe a bit. So maybe this time next year hopefully.
 

eisschollee

Member
Oct 25, 2018
355
Pirate Bae , Mendinso

Would 'Invite only' topics/OT's help here?

It would avoid a lot of drive by , "tell you what you feel" people from participating in things they have no agenda in?
On the otherside, for example me :) , would loose a lot of insight and discussion of said issues of being not part of the mayority on ERA.

But first and foremost, I think the priority has to be to have a safe space to feel safe to open up about issues the want to discuss with peers.
And this discussion must be without all the issues adressed here and in the other threads where the mayority voices/ enforces their view on others
 

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,048
Era does have problems with general discourse and this is highlighted well by the OP and people that have given examples like the parents and climate change denial. Especially around people creating personal threads that then backfire. The below does not speak to this, and especially not the OP who provides a good example of the type of "grow a thicker skin" or "do something about it then" responses that dismiss the concerns of a person in their own thread.

Many people though use these opportunities as a springboard to further seed the divide. People who are repeatedly seen in threads bemoaning cancel culture and who have poked at minority issues in threads. This isn't "internet detective", it's people so obvious in their actions that they stand out. It's not hard to remember the avatar of the person that stuck out in threads around issues, and it's not hard to connect that when they crop up every month or so to do the same. Part of the hostility comes from that sense of seeing the same person provoke the same things over time.

There is no endemic of ignorant people being unable to discuss sensitive topics.

If you approach a sensitive issue in an active thread about it without tact and receive a curt reply then that is on you. Especially if what you're asking is available within a web search or has been asked on numerous pages before the one you're landing on. Some people receive that and take it as a lesson. They research the more common aspects of the topic and come back in later to apologise for the initial disruption and to try again. A large amount of people instead, choose to become the victim. Who then bemoan that community for treating them unfairly and then come into topics like this and promote an idea that noone can talk about things unless they have encyclopedic knowledge.

People can reference "bad faith actors" when they list out what can happen but you need to actually stop and think about them. Numerous times people have called out someone who was banned, saying they were just asking a question. That it was heavy handed. When their only context to the situation is that single post. That will commonly be the context because post histories aren't appended to posts, so it will seem like it is being moderated for that post alone.

What do you think these actors do? They purposefully post in methods that make it hard to discern in individual cases what they're doing. So yes, people saying "internet detective" about referencing other posts on the forum will get a side-eye because with bad actors the context is what you have to determine that they are so. You're not going to find them going "lol fucking trannies amirite?" in a thread.

They will be the ones just prodding and poking. Making sure they they do so over time, in various threads. Who, when faced with a negative reaction, will collapse and play the victim. Will do their best to encourage other posters to see them as the hurt party.

If you're indiscernable from a bad-faith actor then do better to not be. Other people manage it on the forum every day. In amongst some of the most heated discussions on the forum this past week we had posts of people not understanding asexuality and being explained it at length by people within the community. Likewise we've had people who posted a poorly-worded post on the topic who, having received some heat, apologise and attempt to reword it to better reflect their position. This happens frequently and isn't a problem - most people interested in a subject manage one of these two ways.

Non-minorities might be unaware that there are places on the internet set up around the tracking of minority members here. Who will dox and harass people at any opportunity and do so frequently. People who sign up to the forum, slap a trans-flag on their avatar and set their gender to 'non-binary' to stoke the divide. They literally have fan-art of this. This is what people might be dealing with, and they get pretty good at detecting the bad faith from the good. Not perfect mind, but spare some thought as to why that is when you receive a hostile reaction, instead of immediately acting the aggrieved party.

I say all of this as someone who has spent hours detailing things that can be found with a Google search in threads. I am not averse to educating, but I also likely have some more context behind a hostile reaction than someone browsing the thread and assessing it purely on that post alone.

The difficulty in moderation is also tough as a result. If it takes, say, 10 posts to discern a bad faith actor then that's 9 posts people within those threads have had to put up with. You have people reading only post 10 and asking why that person was banned. Try to call it at 5 and you might solve the former but you exacerbate the latter. Which is where some of the curt responses come in. Communities have to put up with a certain amount of bad faith as a consequence. So if you realise you're ignorant on a topic please make some effort to either do some research yourself, or make sure that when you're popping in to ask something you're doing so in a way that clearly accounts for the above.
 
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Gabe

Verified
Oct 25, 2017
200
Italy
I don't mean to hijack the bigger point of your thread.
However, since the straw that broke the camel's back seems to be that Grindr related thread and you made a big deal about it in this one, i went and checked it out.
My only comment is that it all seems like an horrible waste of time, both the events described in your post AND the fact that you spent time making a thread about it in the first place.

Just so i'm clear: i'm not talking about MY time, OP. I'm talking about YOURS.

And it's super unhealthy.

You said that the facts you described happened many times, then you proceeded to identify the problem's cause (or the predominant one , at least) in the fact that you had a profile picture that didn't match your appearance.

I see a pretty simple solution - and you saw that too - that can be applied in literally 5 seconds: take a selfie and upload it.
Think about how much time you probably spent being stressed about those situations to the point of feeling like you needed to vent and make that thread. I understand that you sent a recent picture before meeting the last person, but still...it could ALL have been avoided, easily.

In short, what i'm saying is, (and this is my 2 cents for life in general, forget the Grindr thing for a second) sometimes the solutions to our problems are so simple that we almost don't accept them, and instead we go thru unhealthy mental processes that only make things worse. Life's too short to spend it trapped in our own mental uroboros and if a simple, innocuous, solution prevents us to go in a dark unhealthy place: go for it without wasting your precious time!

Last thing, i also went thru your post history and i saw you also mentioned problems processing and retaining information.
My lady works in that field, so if you want to shoot me a PM with some more specific details i can have her check it and see if she can help out somehow (to be clear: free of charge).

Cheers.
 

Doober

Banned
Jun 10, 2018
4,295
I'd like to see the general temper of the forum cool a bit.

It's becoming increasingly common that while I may agree with someone's argument or position, they're often being a caustic, abrasive asshole about it.

Even mods act this way sometimes.

You can be right without being a colossal prick.
 

Corncob

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,575
UK
I think most of us are in agreement that there are plenty of cases on Reset where people are far too quick to try and backfire a thread, go for those 'gotcha' moments, or generally post blunt feedback that is in no way constructive. However, I do not agree that this is as widespread a problem as you are making out, and I also do not think all of your examples fit into this bracket.

If someone creates a personal thread and is seeking feedback, there has to be a level of expectation that they might get responses they did not expect or particularly want to hear. There's nothing wrong with challenging someone, especially if it's done with good intent and it's constructive. Sometimes people do need to have their opinions challenged, and I think this kind of feedback is a vital in developing yourself. Part of maturity is being challenged, accepting you're wrong on certain opinions, learning, evolving... a good teacher will challenge your opinions as you grow up, your friends and family should call you out on your bullshit when needed, and people on this forum should be able to respond and tell you things you might not want to hear. You might not always agree and the people giving the feedback might be wrong, but people aren't going to change for the better if they're never challenged.

The opening the door for someone thread is a perfect example. To me that person should have their opinion challenged and critiqued. That person needs to realise that their perspective is completely skewed there. They are clearly in the wrong and should not expect the rest of the world to bend to their will. What would help them the most is to take that feedback on board, reflect and realise that's a problem with them and nobody else and it's an issue they should work on. If I complained to my friends about someone opening a door for me, they'd rightly tease me and point out how ridiculous I was being and thank god for that.

Comments that are bigoted, racist, anti-LGBT, hateful, etc. should be dealt with decisively and without remorse, but I think when it comes to someone feeling insulted or slighted by feedback on other issues it's less clear-cut. There has to be an allowance for a certain level of discussion and I don't see how you could ever draw up a definitive list of guidelines/rules for what constitutes 'acceptable' feedback. If it's not always clear what is constructive and what is not and, if a new policy is implemented, there's going to be inconsistent modding and bans and it's going to create an atmosphere that could prejudice open discussion.

If you get upset or anxious when someone suggests that updating your profile picture or that going to the gym could help your self-esteem/dating success then I personally think you might have some issues you need to sort through. Like most of us do I might add. I'm not even saying that you should necessarily agree with the feedback or take the advice on board, just that being challenged that way should not be causing you anxiety.

There's a guy I work with who has severe anxiety and other mental health issues. We work in a huge office with people constantly on phones, having work discussions, general chatter and so on and some people are obviously louder than others. The noise often causes this guy anxiety to the point where he has to quickly walk away into a quiet room. To deal with this my boss first allowed him to listen to music at his desk, which helped for a while but then lost its effect, then he let him work from home one day a week which again helped for a while, until eventually he increased this to two days a week. Now he spends three days in the office with his headphones in constantly and he's more affected by noise than he's ever been. He cannot handle it, makes passive aggressive comments to people talking, puts in complaints and causes issues all the time. This is because he's never been forced to confront the problem. The problem is not the noise as a busy office is invariably going to be somewhat noisy, the problem is how the noise affects him. Confronting his own issues is the only way he could actually solve the problem, or the other extreme is finding another work environment he's more suited to. Instead of my boss trying to get him to confront the problem, he's enabled him with bandaid fixes that have exacerbated the entire issue and created a bigger problem.

What I'm trying to say is it's easier to work on yourself and how you perceive people, opinions and the world than it is to hope the whole world changes for you. When people undertake Cognitive Behavioural Therapy about their anxiety, they are asked to confront the things that make them anxious, not shy away from them. Exposure to critique and feedback is helpful if you go in with the right mindset.
 

Pirate Bae

Edelgard Feet Appreciator
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,794
??
Pirate Bae , Mendinso

Would 'Invite only' topics/OT's help here?

It would avoid a lot of drive by , "tell you what you feel" people from participating in things they have no agenda in?
On the otherside, for example me :) , would loose a lot of insight and discussion of said issues of being not part of the mayority on ERA.

But first and foremost, I think the priority has to be to have a safe space to feel safe to open up about issues the want to discuss with peers.
And this discussion must be without all the issues adressed here and in the other threads where the mayority voices/ enforces their view on others

No, for two reasons:

1). It would create a community where only certain users are allowed to participate in discussion, therefore creating a clique culture between subgroups. We want everyone to participate and grow, so long as they are acting in good faith.

2). In my opinion, drive-by posts are only part of the problem. The bigger issue in my opinion is the inflammatory content of the posts themselves, which is more a culture / environmental issue here and cannot be solved with an "invite-only" thread process.
 

Evo Shandor

Member
Oct 29, 2017
479
I hear you OP and thank you for sharing your difficulties.

While this forum is better than most, it can obviously still improve. Greater empathy is needed not just here but everywhere.

Something we all need to remember is that the moderators and administrative staff are volunteers and by no means perfect. This does not handwash significant issues some moderation has. But we need to remember these people are doing this on their own time and that expecting immediate responses to all reports is unreasonable. Yes, you should get a response to your report but it may take awhile.
 

RPGam3r

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,469
I would say my biggest side eye to this forum and some of its members is the blatant disrespect with "fuck you" posts. Since when is that ok to do to other members?
 

Yahsper

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,523
While I agree with what a lot of posters are saying here about the community and how bad faith actors need to be filtered out (and on the other side, there definitely is a problem with discussions often escalating from 0 to 100 because certain posters don't allow any benefit of the doubt on others), I think it's also important to remember this is a public forum for discussion and not a support group.

If you post anything on a public forum with thousands of users, you will get a vast array of opinions and takes and advices. Many will contradict each other, posters will assume things about you and generally project their personal experience onto yours. If you want a discussion, that's perfectly fine, but if what you really need is a support group, I'd advice to bring your story to one of those instead.

Trying to transform a huge public forum into a support group is impossible and will only cause more issues. It's just not the format for it.
 

Good4Squat

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
3,148
I would say my biggest side eye to this forum and some of its members is the blatant disrespect with "fuck you" posts. Since when is that ok to do to other members?
Yeah, I don't really get why it is allowed either. Just report the post if you feel it is so heinous as to warrant that kind of response.
 
Nov 1, 2017
1,140
I would say my biggest side eye to this forum and some of its members is the blatant disrespect with "fuck you" posts. Since when is that ok to do to other members?
Yeah, I don't really get why it is allowed either. Just report the post if you feel it is so heinous as to warrant that kind of response.
To both of you I would refer to experience behind Kyuuji 's post for why this sometimes happens. This is not to say that kyuuji has said it to people out of frustration but that members with similar experiences have.

There are many people that were allowed to join this site that did the same asking questions shtick on gaf about the exact same topics. Some of them were banned from the old place for the same things they get banned for here so they learned to alter their tone a bit to avoid breaking the TOS. However, if you're someone with knowledge of their past post then you know they are likely to go unbanned, they slink away only to do the same thing repeatedly at later times. These are people that claim to just be ignorant when called out even though they've had the wrong take sometimes for a decade. Other times I've seen people that aggressive is when someone comes into a topic that has already answered their question to ask something completely demeaning that has been addressed for pages prior to their post that they obviously haven't read. I'm not reading every topic though so I'd be interested to look at examples you both have of people getting away with this.