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Raonak

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,170
I agree with the idea if they remade 3, they should make the city streets part become semi-openworld.

They can still re-use a lot of assets. The engine alone is already finished. Since RE3 didn't really add many new mechanics, it wouldn't require many modifications.
Sure, most of the environments need to be recreated, but tools and textures are already in place.

Not to say it would be easy. Because it would be just as much work as making any other sequel.
 
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Lukemia SL

Member
Jan 30, 2018
9,384
What substantial amount of assets ???

Every single thread.

RE3's puzzles are laughable and are pretty much front-loaded in the clocktower segment. RE2's streamlining is its biggest strength as its puzzles isn't a backtracking fest that was at the detriment of both RE1 and RE3, which are both made with the intent of padding the playtime further, especially considering how short of a game RE3 is.

The live selection branching brings absolutely nothing different except the 5 minutes that follows said selection, outside of different story cutscenes that are as uninteresting as it gets. RE2 has more content, its zapping system is immensely more interesting in terms of replay-value, its extra modes are much better, the story is better, the music is better, the progression is more fluid, the characters are all beloved, and the game itself is such a guiding stone in the franchise, every entry can't stop being a successor of RE2 in a way or another more than they are a successor of the games that came immediately before them.

If it was so influential, and it brought so many things, where are they now ?

Where is the Nemesis type ? Where is the dodge mechanic ? Where is the enemy respawn mechanic ? Where is live selection ? There's a reason they're not reused.

Just a question when was the last time you played Resident Evil 3: Nemesis The Last Escape and any other Resident Evil games? Your post has a lot of wrong in it.
 

Encephalon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,856
Japan
They already have the engine and an artstyle to go off of now that RE2 remake changed things from RE7.

Also, RE3 was just one character/one campaign.

Not saying it will be "easy" to make. But something that could get done in three years. RE2 took what, a little over four years including pre-production?

There's not a large difference between the campaign of Jill and Chris or Leon and Claire in 1 and 2. They visit the same locations, and solve the same puzzles for the most part. Different cutscenes play, and they visit the locations in a different order.

RE3 has much more content to cover.

RE3's puzzles are laughable and are pretty much front-loaded in the clocktower segment. RE2's streamlining is its biggest strength as its puzzles isn't a backtracking fest that was at the detriment of both RE1 and RE3, which are both made with the intent of padding the playtime further, especially considering how short of a game RE3 is.

The live selection branching brings absolutely nothing different except the 5 minutes that follows said selection, outside of different story cutscenes that are as uninteresting as it gets. RE2 has more content, its zapping system is immensely more interesting in terms of replay-value, its extra modes are much better, the story is better, the music is better, the progression is more fluid, the characters are all beloved, and the game itself is such a guiding stone in the franchise, every entry can't stop being a successor of RE2 in a way or another more than they are a successor of the games that came immediately before them.

If it was so influential, and it brought so many things, where are they now ?

Where is the Nemesis type ? Where is the dodge mechanic ? Where is the enemy respawn mechanic ? Where is live selection ? There's a reason they're not reused.

"Front loaded in the clock tower segment?" What are you talking about? The hospital (vaccine production), park (gear puzzle), water plant (water test/matching blocks, steam puzzle), etc. follow the half way point in the Clock Tower. Sure puzzles may extend the length of a game, but these games are fundamentally adventure games before they're action games, and that's why the puzzles place such an important role. Backtracking is what makes these games. It gives locations character. Without it, they're nothing.

You're entirely off base in terms of RE3's branching paths. The order you visit locations in the game changes puzzle item locations, etc. It's an arrange mode built into the base game. Live selection is just a small part of it.

It's probably not a coincidence that Pyramid Head was in Silent Hill 2 after 3, though Nemesis was just a Clock Tower type enemy in a Resident Evil game.
 
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SofNascimento

cursed
Member
Oct 28, 2017
21,320
São Paulo - Brazil
RE1 at 5 mil, RE2 at 6 mil and then RE3 at 3.5 is a substantial dropoff. Hell, Breath of Fire III sold 1 million worldwide (respectable) then IV sold half that which imo really lowered Capcoms confidence in the IP

It also a game developed by a different team that originally was not meant to be RE3. Numbers alone do not tell the story. Although I do not disagree with your conclusion being a valid one, there is not enough evidence for it to be more than speculation.
 

VaporSnake

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,603
What substantial amount of assets ???

I have no idea why you continue insisting that the game doesn't use anything from RE2 when an entire location is lifted from it.

Yes, the entire RPD being done already is "substantial" whatever city street lies outside of the RPD as well, not to mention individual city/item/weapon/gore/scenery assets that could be reused that have already been created for RE2.

Like I and others have said, (even friggin' real game devs have said as much in this very thread) with RE2 the new visual style, tone and foundation has already been created, they don't have to start from scratch again like they did with RE2, which in itself already makes it "easier" to develop an RE3, disregarding the fact that the games actually share locations that are already complete in RE2. Like I said before, there isn't much logic going on with your op and subsequent points, just blatant ignorance of how game development works.
 

Encephalon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,856
Japan
It's weird to suggest RE3 is a financial disappointment in order to prop up CV as a more logical alernative, when CV appears to have sold less than RE3, over two releases.
 

SofNascimento

cursed
Member
Oct 28, 2017
21,320
São Paulo - Brazil
Where is the Nemesis type ? Where is the dodge mechanic ? Where is the enemy respawn mechanic ? Where is live selection ? There's a reason they're not reused.

Nemesis is not something you add in every game. Saying that there has not being another Nemesis and trying to imply that it somehows show it being not good is laughable. Nemesis, is, without a doubt, the most successful monster ever present in a Resident Evil game.

Dodge mechanics are not an inherent step foward, they are a choice you make if you want your game to have a certain tone/speed. REmake, for example, wouldn't work if you could simply dodge zombies like Jill could in RE3. Besides, games that feature dodges mechanics in some capacity are: RE4, RE5, RE6, Rev 1, Rev 2.

I'm not sure what you mean by enemy respawn mechanic. Enemies in RE3 didn't automatically come back just because you left the room. Some areas were repopulated after some story event was triggered, so when you came back there would be new enemies. That's something you see in pretty much every RE game.
 

Encephalon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,856
Japan
I have no idea why you continue insisting that the game doesn't use anything from RE2 when an entire location is lifted from it.

Yes, the entire RPD being done already is "substantial" whatever city street lies outside of the RPD as well, not to mention individual city/item assets that could be reused that have already been created for RE2.

Like I and countless others have said, (even friggin' real game devs have said as much) with RE2 the new visual style, tone and foundation has already been created, they don't have to start from scratch again like they did with RE2, which in itself already makes it "easier" to develop an RE3, disregarding the fact that the games actually share locations that are already complete in RE2. Like I said before, there isn't much logic going on here, just blatant ignorance of how game development works.

The entirety of the R.P.D. is not lifted from RE2. You can only visit the left hand side of the first floor, and the 2nd floor leading to the Stars Office. That's it. Barely any game time is spent there. Maybe 15 minutes (you visit the R.P.D. to get a single gem item to open up the path to the area with the Restaurant). What other "locations" are you talking about? None of 2's city streets are featured in RE3. Nor were the clock tower, hospital, park, or water treatment plant, for that matter.

How much work do you think "establishing a visual style" amounts to? Do storyboards suddenly draw themselves, highly detailed prerendered backdrops render from thin air, music compose itself, and character models will themselves into existence?
 

VaporSnake

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,603
The entirety of the R.P.D. is not lifted from RE2. You can only visit the left hand side of the first floor, and the 2nd floor leading to the Stars Office. That's it. Barely any game time is spent there. Maybe 15 minutes. What other "locations" are you talking about? None of 2's city streets are featured in RE3. Nor were the clock tower, hospital, park, or water treatment plant, for that matter.

How much work do you think "establishing a visual style" amounts to? Do storyboards suddenly draw themselves, highly detailed prerendered backdrops render from thin air, music compose itself, and character models will themselves into existence?

I'm aware that the RPD is not a major aspect of RE3, but a significant portion of it is already in place with RE2 remake. I didn't mention any other locations besides of the city streets outside the RPD so I'm not entirely sure what you are referring to by "other locations" You must realize that the person I was responding to keeps repeating that no assets would be reused in RE3 when it's blatantly, obviously untrue. Ignore the rest of the RPD for a second, just the main lobby of the station itself being established already, a single room disproves his claims.

As for the second part, way to misunderstand the point. I'm not saying the game is completely bypassing pre-production at all, but that a decent amount of the heavy lifting is already done. Yes creating a new gameplay style, look and tone for the series was a major part of this new games development, an aspect that they don't have to again repeat. It's the same reason so many companies are compelled to churn out a sequel after the release of a first game, the games foundations/engine and the companies initial investment are already complete, meaning the sequel is both cheaper and "easier" to produce. Doesn't mean that I'm claiming no new art needs to be produced, that's a gross misrepresentation of what I'm saying.

Additionally I was saying that a plethora of assets required for the game are already in place. Do you think they will create new green/red herb, handgun ammo boxes, weapon models, ink ribbon assets etcetera? Of course not, they'll use what is already completed in addition to creating new assets for whatever new content is required. Do you think they'll start from scratch and throw out all the crashed vehicle models/building geometry/city textures? Of course not. This doesn't take away from the countless hours of work needed to create the actual new content, but to continually claim that the game wouldn't reuse any assets created for RE2 is lunacy. RE2 even reuses assets from RE7, a game set in a Louisiana bayou why wouldn't an RE3 reuse things for a game that takes place in the same exact city and shares some of the same locales?
 

Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,632
It does use the same engine as RE7, but that was kind of my point. RE2's development did a lot of work to take an engine originally made for a first-person RE and create an effective third-person experience. An RE3 remake would naturally build off of the work done for both RE7 and RE2.
The engine was not made for first person RE specificslly, the engine was the engine not specific for any perspective or genre so making RE2 a third person game would not have required additional work on the engine itself. The same engine is also used for DMCV which is as far removed from both of them
 

Encephalon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,856
Japan
I'm aware that the RPD is not a major aspect of RE3, but a significant portion of it is already in place with RE2 remake. I didn't mention any other locations besides of the city streets outside the RPD so I'm not entirely sure what you are referring to by "other locations" You must realize that the person I was responding to keeps repeating that no assets would be reused in RE3 when it's blatantly, obviously untrue. Ignore the rest of the RPD for a second, just the main lobby of the station itself being established already, a single room disproves his claims.

As for the second part, way to misunderstand the point. I'm not saying the game is completely bypassing pre-production at all, but that a decent amount of the heavy lifting is already done. Yes creating a new gameplay style, look and tone for the series was a major part of this new games development, an aspect that they don't have to again repeat. It's the same reason so many companies are compelled to churn out a sequel after the release of a first game, the games foundations/engine and the companies initial investment are already complete, meaning the sequel is both cheaper and "easier" to produce. Doesn't mean that I'm claiming no new art needs to be produced, that's a gross misrepresentation of what I'm saying.

Additionally I was saying that a plethora of assets required for the game are already in place. Do you think they will create new green/red herb, handgun ammo boxes, weapon models, ink ribbon assets etcetera? Of course not, they'll use what is already completed in addition to creating new assets for whatever new content is required. Do you think they'll start from scratch and throw out all the crashed vehicle models/building geometry/city textures? Of course not. This doesn't take away from the countless hours of work needed to create the actual new content, but to continually claim that the game wouldn't reuse any assets created for RE2 is lunacy. RE2 even reuses assets from RE7, a game set in a Louisiana bayou why wouldn't an RE3 reuse things for a game that takes place in the same exact city and shares some of the same locales?

Oh okay, it wouldn't be nothing, especially when they would be reusing a lot of textures, etc. I misunderstood your argument. Yeah, some of the remake will definitely carry over. Hopefully it allows them a bit of a headstart, but I'm guessing it'll be at least 2 years before a potential RE3 remake releases.
 

Lukemia SL

Member
Jan 30, 2018
9,384
I have no idea why you continue insisting that the game doesn't use anything from RE2 when an entire location is lifted from it.

Yes, the entire RPD being done already is "substantial" whatever city street lies outside of the RPD as well, not to mention individual city/item/weapon/gore/scenery assets that could be reused that have already been created for RE2.

Like I and others have said, (even friggin' real game devs have said as much in this very thread) with RE2 the new visual style, tone and foundation has already been created, they don't have to start from scratch again like they did with RE2, which in itself already makes it "easier" to develop an RE3, disregarding the fact that the games actually share locations that are already complete in RE2. Like I said before, there isn't much logic going on with your op and subsequent points, just blatant ignorance of how game development works.

It still isn't the ENTIRE LOCATION of the RPD.
Those REAL GAME DEVs™️ still aren't an authority on Resident Evil either especially when they also seem to think a lot of the work has been done for 3 too.
They don't have to start from scratch but they still have to put in a lot of work for the various and more diverse locations on display in 3 in comparison to 2's minimal amount. You're calling the OP ignorant of development while being ignorant of what the game has in comparison to its predecessor is quite bloody funny.
 

VaporSnake

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,603
It still isn't the ENTIRE LOCATION of the RPD.
Those REAL GAME DEVs™️ still aren't an authority on Resident Evil either especially when they also seem to think a lot of the work has been done for 3 too.
They don't have to start from scratch but they still have to put in a lot of work for the various and more diverse locations on display in 3 in comparison to 2's minimal amount. You're calling the OP ignorant of development while being ignorant of what the game has in comparison to its predecessor is quite bloody funny.

I'm completely aware of what the game has in comparison to the predecessor, you're getting hung up on semantics here, just because the whole layout of the RPD from RE2 isn't reused in 3 doesn't take away that the majority of the rooms required for RE3 have already been created. They don't need to create concept art for the STARS office or main lobby or create a new floorplan for the RPD or design a new exterior, this "entire location" is in the can already. Plus who's to say an RE3 remake wouldn't expand upon the original's time in the RPD?

Like it or not "a lot" of the work has been completed: see my above giant post about the various 3D models, textures and other assets that will obviously be reused, I never once claimed that a significant amount of new content would not need to be created, fucking duh. I'm rather responding to the rather absurd claim that RE3 wouldn't reuse much from RE2.
 

Encephalon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,856
Japan
I'm completely aware of what the game has in comparison to the predecessor, you're getting hung up on semantics here, just because the whole layout of the RPD from RE2 isn't reused in 3 doesn't take away that the majority of the rooms required for RE3 have already been created. They don't need to create concept art for the STARS office or main lobby or create a new floorplan for the RPD or design a new exterior, this "entire location" is in the can already. Plus who's to say an RE3 remake wouldn't expand upon the original's time in the RPD?

Like it or not "a lot" of the work has been completed: see my above giant post about the various 3D models, textures and other assets that will obviously be reused, I never once claimed that a significant amount of new content would not need to be created, fucking duh. I'm rather responding to the rather absurd claim that RE3 wouldn't reuse much from RE2.

I think they're misunderstanding what you're claiming, because there's a narrative out there about the existing RE3 that it was a small game, mostly built off of RE2's assets/locations, that could be released as an "expansion" to RE2's remake because of its insignificant amount of content. Generally these arguments bring up the R.P.D. as evidence that there wasn't that much to the original RE3.
 

Lukemia SL

Member
Jan 30, 2018
9,384
I'm completely aware of what the game has in comparison to the predecessor, you're getting hung up on semantics here, just because the whole layout of the RPD from RE2 isn't reused in 3 doesn't take away that the majority of the rooms required for RE3 have already been created. They don't need to create concept art for the STARS office or main lobby or create a new floorplan for the RPD or design a new exterior, this "entire location" is in the can already. Plus who's to say an RE3 remake wouldn't expand upon the original's time in the RPD?

Like it or not "a lot" of the work has been completed: see my above giant post about the various 3D models, textures and other assets that will obviously be reused, I never once claimed that a significant amount of new content would not need to be created, fucking duh. I'm rather responding to the rather absurd claim that RE3 wouldn't reuse much from RE2.

Okay good you do understand then.

Encephalon that's what it is yeah.
 

Hieroph

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,995
REmake: gen 6
REmake 2: gen 8

Obviously REmake 3 will be gen 10. Just imagine the graphics.
 

Y2Kev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,863
This video is the best video on why RECV is annoying AF I've ever seen. This timestamp just shows how the linearity and lack of item boxes make the first half of the game just incredibly tedious.

https://youtu.be/VXqTXv9-z-8?t=585

Now add in bandersnatches!
 

Encephalon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,856
Japan
This video is the best video on why RECV is annoying AF I've ever seen. This timestamp just shows how the linearity and lack of item boxes make the first half of the game just incredibly tedious.

https://youtu.be/VXqTXv9-z-8?t=585

Now add in bandersnatches!

The best feature of Code Veronica is probably that there's so much puzzle shit to do, and areas are so expansive, it's difficult to get into auto pilot when replaying it.
 

SofNascimento

cursed
Member
Oct 28, 2017
21,320
São Paulo - Brazil
This video is the best video on why RECV is annoying AF I've ever seen. This timestamp just shows how the linearity and lack of item boxes make the first half of the game just incredibly tedious.

https://youtu.be/VXqTXv9-z-8?t=585

Now add in bandersnatches!

It's funny that until a few days ago I had no idea this series existed and from then until now I probably saw it posted 3 or 4 times. And that's a good thing because it's the best analysis of the classics games around. The only other that can compare is The Sphere Hunters' which is more a fan view rather than an gameplay analysis and I also found The Completionist's videos to be really good.

Plenty of time to see those videos until RE2 hits!
 

Y2Kev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,863
The problem is that instead of slowly walking towards the player Nemesis would be running faster than you.
I think they can fix the problem just by putting some barriers in place. Like have you run towards an electric fence and shut the door or something. Or have Nemesis get distracted by something else. Or he catches on fire in some spots and needs to retreat. Lol. RE3 is such an amazing game.
 

Furisco

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,084
Oh yeah. I found RE2's controls to be very good. Similar to RE6's in theory but actually enjoyable and responsive.
RE6 controls are enjoyable and responsive too
509487918662811663.png


I think they can fix the problem just by putting some barriers in place. Like have you run towards an electric fence and shut the door or something. Or have Nemesis get distracted by something else. Or he catches on fire in some spots and needs to retreat. Lol. RE3 is such an amazing game.

The only thing i want is to see them making it dynamic and a pillar Remake 3's gameplay, Nemesis encounters being just a bunch of setpieces would be wack city.
 

SofNascimento

cursed
Member
Oct 28, 2017
21,320
São Paulo - Brazil
I think they can fix the problem just by putting some barriers in place. Like have you run towards an electric fence and shut the door or something. Or have Nemesis get distracted by something else. Or he catches on fire in some spots and needs to retreat. Lol. RE3 is such an amazing game.

Don't you think that might take away the organic side that Mr. X seems to have? That is, Nemesis would only be able to show up where this barriers exist, instead of anywhere.

RE6 controls are enjoyable and responsive too
509487918662811663.png

latest
 

Encephalon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,856
Japan
I think they can fix the problem just by putting some barriers in place. Like have you run towards an electric fence and shut the door or something. Or have Nemesis get distracted by something else. Or he catches on fire in some spots and needs to retreat. Lol. RE3 is such an amazing game.

This and maybe have Jill be able to not hide, but slip past obstacles that Nemesis will need to go around, or take the time to destroy (more immediate than something that requires you to set a "trap" to block the path, like the electric fence or xyz on fire. Then have Nemesis learn to quickly find a way to the other side if you abuse one a few too many times.

I get your point. I like it though how there are so many possibilities and ways to reinvent things. I think capcom will figure it out

It's exciting to think about.
 

SofNascimento

cursed
Member
Oct 28, 2017
21,320
São Paulo - Brazil
It's interesting to note that doors in RE3 worked exactly like barriers. They gave the player a time to put some more distance between Jill and Nemesis because otherwise he would always catch you. But doors don't work like that anymore.
 

Encephalon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,856
Japan
It's interesting to note that doors in RE3 worked exactly like barriers. They gave the player a time to put some more distance between Jill and Nemesis because otherwise he would always catch you. But doors don't work like that anymore.

I'd imagine we would see less doors for the city area. There's no need to separate a city into small rooms and hallways like RE3 effectively does. I think it would be cool to have Jill explore the city in an unconventional way, entering buildings through windows, make more use of vertical space to get through from one area to the next. But this has me wondering if they would attempt to make RE3 more "realistic" with wide open streets, etc etc. I guess the answer probably lies in the RE2make content that I've been avoiding, but I hope if they do remake it, they keep in a game that feels like it primarily takes place in narrow back alleys, narrow outdoor shopping areas, etc. A city that wasn't built for a high volume of cars and had to make do with an older layout.
 

StallionDan

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,705
RE3's puzzles are laughable and are pretty much front-loaded in the clocktower segment. RE2's streamlining is its biggest strength as its puzzles isn't a backtracking fest that was at the detriment of both RE1 and RE3, which are both made with the intent of padding the playtime further, especially considering how short of a game RE3 is.

The live selection branching brings absolutely nothing different except the 5 minutes that follows said selection, outside of different story cutscenes that are as uninteresting as it gets. RE2 has more content, its zapping system is immensely more interesting in terms of replay-value, its extra modes are much better, the story is better, the music is better, the progression is more fluid, the characters are all beloved, and the game itself is such a guiding stone in the franchise, every entry can't stop being a successor of RE2 in a way or another more than they are a successor of the games that came immediately before them.

If it was so influential, and it brought so many things, where are they now ?

Where is the Nemesis type ? Where is the dodge mechanic ? Where is the enemy respawn mechanic ? Where is live selection ? There's a reason they're not reused.

Have you actually played RE3? Be honest, because your post I quoted and a few others about it are factually wrong. Not opinion wrong, like actually not based on reality, over things that anyone who has played the game should very clearly know.

Like you claim live selection changes nothing but the next 5 minutes of cutscenes, but it can change where Nemesis encounters happen, where and what types of enemies spawn, where items are, change puzzle answers (on top of the randomisation that already happens), change boss fights, give extra boss fights, kill different characters, give different endings as well as numerous alternative cutscenes.

Anyone who has played the game should know this.

Also please explain why RE1/3 having actual puzzles that require thought is laughable.
 
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Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
22,864
Have you actually played RE3? Be honest, because your post I quoted and a few others about it are factually wrong. Not opinion wrong, like actually not based on reality, over things that anyone who has played the game should very clearly know.

Like you claim live selection changes nothing but the next 5 minutes, but it can change where Nemesis encounters happen, where and what types of enemies spawn, where items are, change puzzle answers (on top of the randomisation that already happens), change boss fights, give extra boss fights, kill different characters, give different endings as well as numerous alternative cutscenes.

Anyone who has played the game should know this.

I have played the game and the changes are stated here, this is nowhere near as sprawling as you make it look like https://residentevil.fandom.com/wiki/Live_Selection
 

Lukemia SL

Member
Jan 30, 2018
9,384
This video is the best video on why RECV is annoying AF I've ever seen. This timestamp just shows how the linearity and lack of item boxes make the first half of the game just incredibly tedious.

https://youtu.be/VXqTXv9-z-8?t=585

Now add in bandersnatches!

I've recently watched this series of videos. I agree with you and the video here, CV is a tedious hassle. Whenever I replay the series CV is the only one I contemplate skipping altogether.
 

SofNascimento

cursed
Member
Oct 28, 2017
21,320
São Paulo - Brazil
I have played the game and the changes are stated here, this is nowhere near as sprawling as you make it look like https://residentevil.fandom.com/wiki/Live_Selection

You really should watch this:



It might not change your opinion about the game, but it might give you something to think about.

And dat nemesis music. Pants shat.

Before I replayed RE3 recently I never really cared about soundtrack much... it just went over my head. This time I could appreciate how soundtrack was important, not only to RE3 but all RE games. In particular the scene where Nemesis jumps into the Police Station the sound shifts right before you go down the stairs and you can even listen to a window breaking in the distance. It sets the encounter perfectly.