Excuse me? What nonsense have you been reading that states that trigger warnings are more harmful?
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We need to be more positive and less hostile as a forum
- Thread starter TheIdiot
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Excuse me? What nonsense have you been reading that states that trigger warnings are more harmful?
Haven't heard that, appreciate the attempts to keep things safe though
Dogpiling is interesting because it is not always obvious your are joining a dogpile until after you have done it.
This sites notification feature magnifies this.
I agree. Though now that the democratic primary is over I feel like things have been better. More thoughts on this later.
Not everything is an argument to be won
Not everything is a chance to score points
It's okay to be wrong sometimes, to admit that you're wrong and take is as an opportunity to reflect on someone else being more right than you are.
If someone is arguing a point just for the sake of arguing and they're just not reading what you're saying, take a pause, step back, and let them just make their peace. Letting them have the last word and feeling like they've won doesn't actually mean that you've lost.
Not everything is an argument to be won
Not everything is a chance to score points
It's okay to be wrong sometimes, to admit that you're wrong and take is as an opportunity to reflect on someone else being more right than you are.
If someone is arguing a point just for the sake of arguing and they're just not reading what you're saying, take a pause, step back, and let them just make their peace. Letting them have the last word and feeling like they've won doesn't actually mean that you've lost.
It's some early research I heard about listening to The Weeds, but here's an Atlantic link that covers the topic a bit: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2019/03/do-trigger-warnings-work/585871/
For now, we're sticking with 'em, but always looking for ways to improve.
Least we can do.
If all replies are in the same minute I agree but often you see people join the dogpiles long after it started.
GAF imploded because of the owners problems sure but was also a boiling pot of anger across the board that had that as the catalyst that tipped the scale. There was absolutely no civil discord across all major topics of the time and the hostility was off the wall. We are literally in the same boat.
If you look back at the opening threads of Off-Topic on here that first week the major threads were about "fresh start", "we can finally be nice again", "hope for change", etc. In my opinion this board was back in a similar slope within 12 months after it opened.
Leadership (both mod/admin but also most prominent members) can influence things back to civility but frankly I just don't see it, and everyone is falling into the same traps as GAF did.
Lol, I absolutely support the attempt. Seeing LGBTQ+ posters talk about how triggering some of the negative news can be was impactful. The constant deluge of hateful tweets, and videos of racists can be hard to bear. Even if they're cathartic because the racist/bigot is exposed/punished, it can be hard to watch or bear. While at the same time I understand how exposing these subjects and informing people what's happening in the world is also important. A lot of hateful people thrive on plausible deniability, and having their true intentions exposed can be important.
I just don't know what the best course of action is. Obviously site policy can only fix so much. Right now it feels like the best I can do is try my best to be respectful here, while supporting the causes I really believe in. While it can sometimes be depressing, I feel like I've learned a lot from the communities on this forum.
I just let the loudest voices shout at each other over shit they probably agree about on a base level and no longer care to contribute to the vast majority of topics posted here (yes, posted, not discussed).
It's clear the moderation team have been tying themselves in knots trying to do the right thing by the various minority groups who post here, it's also clear that it is not working.
It's clear the moderation team have been tying themselves in knots trying to do the right thing by the various minority groups who post here, it's also clear that it is not working.
Well, yeah. If I go into that TLOU2 thread about Vice getting pressured by Sony and the first thing I say is "this thread is a riot" then what am I really adding? I don't like TLOU2. I'm not gonna solve anything or change anyone's mind by arguing. Even if I then added "there's no good way for a company to pressure a journalist", a hundred other people already made that point for me. If that was all I said that'd be one thing but I had to get my own little dig in too.
I'm gonna get into arguments because I don't think there's a way to carry yourself at all times as an objective, stone faced, unemotive robot, but I can at least think about how I'm contributing to what others view as bringing this forum down and try to improve myself. It's better than just trying to cast blame on a nebulous userbase that's tearing ERA apart.
Right, but I think this is symptomatic of other issues as well.
Like, if you don't read every post in a thread, you may not realize just how much a point has been litigated to and back.
I find myself doing it sometimes: I read something crazy on page 2 of a 4 page thread and I immediately respond to it, only to realize that pages 3 AND 4 were filled with people doing the same. And so unless I read every post on those pages, I inadvertently contribute.
I think knowing how many times a particular post has been replied to may help, but I fear that it also invites people who aim to contribute to this behavior.
There does seem to be less gray than ever here.
This morning I wanted to post in a thread, but then I saw mods went ban heavy (because the community went report heavy), so I felt afraid to speak my mind, due to the bans being issued.
I think what I wish I would see less of, are the posts that people try to piss others off, hoping for a ban. It's plain as day when people are baiting others.
This morning I wanted to post in a thread, but then I saw mods went ban heavy (because the community went report heavy), so I felt afraid to speak my mind, due to the bans being issued.
I think what I wish I would see less of, are the posts that people try to piss others off, hoping for a ban. It's plain as day when people are baiting others.
Ah, that study. There has always been arguments about whether trigger warnings have a significant effect or not, but the only study to find they were harmful forbade anyone with trauma from participating in the experiment which affects their results in an obvious way.
I know having a News Forum was completely shot down, but I think they need to introduce mandated tagging for all threads to allow some of us to instantly filter out news threads from our view. I have had to set a screen time limit for resetera, because it is exhausting scrolling through the off topic section to find more lighthearted threads to have a bit of an escape. It makes me generally more negative than I would like to be.
I know they introduced ignoring threads, but that is not enough. I want to be able to turn it all off without seeing it some days. Since the forum seems generally uninterested in allowing these types of features (new forum or tagging), I am basically trying to weed myself off this forum little by little, which is unfortunate.
I know they introduced ignoring threads, but that is not enough. I want to be able to turn it all off without seeing it some days. Since the forum seems generally uninterested in allowing these types of features (new forum or tagging), I am basically trying to weed myself off this forum little by little, which is unfortunate.
Despite what this thread is about, I do really appreciate this community and the mods hard work
We can all strive to be more civil and not just assume the worst of our fellow posters
We can all strive to be more civil and not just assume the worst of our fellow posters
How dare you fucking agree with me!!!
I realize that this place has its own specific set of issues but the internet in general seems to have a problem with hostility
Yeah I agree and am also guilty of doing as you described so I'm 100% a hypocrite here but I think we still should be putting the effort in to maybe read a few replies to see if the point we are about to make has already been made.
Mental health is a huge issue in general and I've seen dogpiles chase a few members away from the forum for good because they couldn't handle it.
Spending less time on ERA (or insert social media here) helps. It may not solve the immediacy of your issue with ERA but given the circumstances, of well, life and how it is affecting everyone, I think maybe it helps to take a step back and let it ride out.. or contribute.
or just vent in this venting thread.
or just vent in this venting thread.
I'd genuinely like to see the forum move towards a more positive direction, but I feel like it'd be impossible.
I work a full time retail management job and I work nearly every day with off days few and far between. My life is absolutely exhausting lately because of COVID. And the world in general is so negative and terrible.
Then I have a little free time, and I would like to come to Era and have a nice discussion or two, but it's really becoming so bad here too. I look at the front page and I am drowned by threads on which celebrity/personality is being canceled, or which upcoming game I am not allowed to be excited for because of some controversy, or what Trump and his goons have to say today. And you might as well not even comment in the threads, because if you're taken out of context even slightly then you start getting bombarded with "yikes" and "get the fuck outta here with this shit" and I feel even more depressed and attacked than I was before I entered the thread.
And when I do stumble into a nice thread where a conversation can be had, we start having driving by posters coming in with hot takes like "I HATE THIS GAME/MOVIE WHY ARE THEY MAKING THIS" and it just drains the last bit of energy out of me for the day.
And all of this stuff I see is completely valid. I by no means want any of it silenced and I am by no means saying that bad people shouldn't be called out, but I want the hostility toned down some. I want to have a little bit of sunshine in my life.
Edit: I also realize I am not innocent in some of this. I've made comments in the past that were certainly negative. And ended up being drive by posts because when I checked the forum later that day, I'd have so many notifications of people just dog piling me, so I just leave it alone and go to bed.
I work a full time retail management job and I work nearly every day with off days few and far between. My life is absolutely exhausting lately because of COVID. And the world in general is so negative and terrible.
Then I have a little free time, and I would like to come to Era and have a nice discussion or two, but it's really becoming so bad here too. I look at the front page and I am drowned by threads on which celebrity/personality is being canceled, or which upcoming game I am not allowed to be excited for because of some controversy, or what Trump and his goons have to say today. And you might as well not even comment in the threads, because if you're taken out of context even slightly then you start getting bombarded with "yikes" and "get the fuck outta here with this shit" and I feel even more depressed and attacked than I was before I entered the thread.
And when I do stumble into a nice thread where a conversation can be had, we start having driving by posters coming in with hot takes like "I HATE THIS GAME/MOVIE WHY ARE THEY MAKING THIS" and it just drains the last bit of energy out of me for the day.
And all of this stuff I see is completely valid. I by no means want any of it silenced and I am by no means saying that bad people shouldn't be called out, but I want the hostility toned down some. I want to have a little bit of sunshine in my life.
Edit: I also realize I am not innocent in some of this. I've made comments in the past that were certainly negative. And ended up being drive by posts because when I checked the forum later that day, I'd have so many notifications of people just dog piling me, so I just leave it alone and go to bed.
Yeah same right here. I don't post too much anymore because of this.
When I get too many notifications its because I've probably said something that someone has disagreed with not because people are praising my post. That's no longer fun.
There's an issue with the mod system - and I'm not attacking the mods here - but we see warnings and bans for specific posts and then end up banning the person. I think we've gone way too far and banned a lot of good people. The least we can do is be nice to people. Some people can still see the error of their posts and can turn it around. I don't really see a good outcome to manage an internet forum for any of this - perhaps the world right now is too tense and antagonistic that there's no grey area on any issue and that creates a problem for an internet forum, where it only takes one person out of thousands who see the post to disagree.
Really things have been this way since 2016. I mean on and off this forum. 2020 is just kicking it up a notch with it being an Election year, Covid, Police Brutality, and a console launch year so all the fanboys are out.
It's not working the way it was intended, which makes sense because you're asking more of people rather than less. You can still expect more of people without banning them for 3 months every time they're not trying hard enough to be better.
I look at it like this. I'm a teacher. As a classroom teacher, the very last thing I ever want to do is suspend a kid. I don't want to have them suspended for fighting, stealing, cursing, or anything else because it doesn't work. They don't learn anything and they just come back resentful. You also don't set an example for everyone else. And yes, I realize teaching is not at all like running a forum, but here's one way where it is.
Exclusion, especially exclusion for the sorts of things we've worked into the charter here, sends the message that we don't want such people here. It sends the message that anyone can and should be replaced. And while that's fine, no one wants more bigots or bigot apologists or excusers, they're just being replaced with more of the same. Like lemmings.
Mmm, I can see how that could influence things a smidge, yeah. Good to know, thanks.
I'd say allow for random fun threads
Don't leap to dogpile
Carefully read the article if there is one and OP before posting. Not just the headline.
Be nice? Talk about things you like or talk about things you liked about something you didn't like instead of focusing on what you don't like. This goes more for discussing entertainment rather than serious issues.
Don't leap to dogpile
Carefully read the article if there is one and OP before posting. Not just the headline.
Be nice? Talk about things you like or talk about things you liked about something you didn't like instead of focusing on what you don't like. This goes more for discussing entertainment rather than serious issues.
Yeah, the current format is not meant for lighthearted perusal.
In many ways though, I think that is sort of a good thing. Some people would not be exposed to a ton of complex discussions and topics without that mix.
I have been coming to this place and the one before since the mid-2000s. Gaming got me here, but the generally leftist discussions kept me coming back. I honestly don't think I would be the person I am without the influence of the community.
But yeah, ultimately, people who have been on this forum long enough know what they are about, and should have those tools I think.
As someone who has been banned numerous times, I don't believe they are ban happy. The way I see it is, they are more open to dialogue than actually crushing your existence.
"More harmful" might seem like a bit of a stretch, but I think there's good reasons why they might not really serve their intended purpose. Just seeing them reminds you of the past trauma anyway, so you're are immediately thinking about something that is troubling to you. Trigger warnings induce anxiety even before the potentially offensive content is observed, therefore heightening tension.
They also put you in a kind of bubble, where you're never really forced to confront traumas and just avoid them altogether.
Telling someone that they are about to read or see something offensive/upsetting also predisposes them to be offended or upset. So instead of reading it and having a spontaneous and more honest reaction, they expect to be upset and therefore get upset.
Absolutely. And worse yet there's clear examples of moderators themselves breaking the rules and calling them out on it can get you banned. Honestly me typing this sentence makes me concerned that I'll be banned.
As someone who has also taught, I completely agree. The other thing is exclusion has no chance of being effective here anyway since the barrier to reentry is too low to really dissuade any true malevolence.
Mods can't win though cos the moment they aren't ban trigger happy they get criticized for that too
I don't mean this in a judgmental way so I hope it doesn't come off like that, your comment just helped me put my perspective into words (thanks!).
I work like 50 hrs a week managing a team of around 40 people, many fresh out of high school or in college. Many of them love to stir shit because it's funny, or generally have an attitude of not giving a damn. So when I come on this site and hop into a thread, I'm not trying to deal with more of it. Having to wade through it - or ending up engaging with it - just puts me off contributing anymore, doesn't make me feel welcome, and sometimes can fuck with my anxiety or depression. Because it feels like I can't get away from it, you know?
Again, not directing this at you. I've been combative on this site quite a bit myself and I'm trying to improve. I've reached out to many of the people I argued with to at least apologize. We all have our blind spots and vices and such, and being open like this is how we learn to do better.
Which thread? The Bezos guillotine thread I see has no bans. Not sure what you're saying.
i've had better experiences with the Waypoint, Idle Thumbs, post-marxist Something Awful, and the recently created Bread and Roses forums. There's probably others I'm forgetting.
I mean that people are mocking moderation regarding bans in there.
We do not force people to confront their trauma by reading about other people's trauma in detail. That would be horrific, and has no basis in the field of psychology as that has a very high chance of triggering someone's ptsd.
I see it the other way. I never been ban before (except for the endgame thing lol) but that's because I know what to post and what not to post. I mainly observe. Not all mods are the same tho of course. But it's not the exception but the rule right?
In many ways, NOT being ban-happy triggers more toxicity because mod attention is being pulled because of reporting. So if the mods don't try to chill the discussions, the community itself will discuss the offending post itself.
The discourse has been fairly rough lately, but I don't view the calls for to make things less 'strict' and more welcoming of 'other opinions' in good light. I remember a lot of that from the other place too, and when those things came out it was clear the original call was the right one.
However, I am hating how people do tend to try the game the system. The Biden/Reade stuff was a good example. Some Biden supporters tried to make many, who didn't want to vote for the president docket in the general election at all because of experienced trauma, out to be Trump supporters, while some of those victims would also insert/project themselves into other discussions to call all Biden voters rape apologists and supporters. Both with the goals of shutting down "opposition" with labels that could subject to a ban and projecting their fears on to others, rather than coming to terms that people with PTSD or other effects of trauma can't and shouldn't take part in that election when many could do so in their place and that most Era voters weren't gunning for Biden in the Primaries and dealing with the hand dealt in a two party, first to the post system.
I'm just not sure if there's a way to foster a more positive environment between users. Mods can lighten up or crack down all they want, but the behavior is largely on us. Myself included, even if I have managed to not get any bans or warnings across both places. Been just as guilty being a part of a dog pile, not reporting, and trying to force the tone of a thread to align to my preference rather than in-line with what the situation called for.
I suppose that mods could attach a disclaimer on the, as an example, Wizarding World RPG reveal thread with acknowledgement of Rowling's issues and that the Wizarding World/Harry Potter franchise is very much attached to her currently for the "art isn't the artist" crowd but the thread is about the content of the reveal itself, but it still feels a bit like trying to stifle or segregate the discussion. It's bad enough that OTs are treated generally as the hype/positive or gtfo threads and all the other threads are the mud pits. It would be nice to spread it about a little more, but there's not really a solution to that I'm seeing.
However, I am hating how people do tend to try the game the system. The Biden/Reade stuff was a good example. Some Biden supporters tried to make many, who didn't want to vote for the president docket in the general election at all because of experienced trauma, out to be Trump supporters, while some of those victims would also insert/project themselves into other discussions to call all Biden voters rape apologists and supporters. Both with the goals of shutting down "opposition" with labels that could subject to a ban and projecting their fears on to others, rather than coming to terms that people with PTSD or other effects of trauma can't and shouldn't take part in that election when many could do so in their place and that most Era voters weren't gunning for Biden in the Primaries and dealing with the hand dealt in a two party, first to the post system.
I'm just not sure if there's a way to foster a more positive environment between users. Mods can lighten up or crack down all they want, but the behavior is largely on us. Myself included, even if I have managed to not get any bans or warnings across both places. Been just as guilty being a part of a dog pile, not reporting, and trying to force the tone of a thread to align to my preference rather than in-line with what the situation called for.
That's understandable if people were upset for prior bans around the same subject/reference. I personally think the imagery and reference is a good reminder, especially in a country that supposedly has a self-lauded amendment for similar purposes that somehow is never actually used for that reason. But I also understand the mod team having issues trying to avoid fostering implications of threat and death when it falls under "Advocating Violence" in the TOS. Luckily not my call to make, but hopefully stuff like that continues to be reviewed either way.
Unfortunately there's no way to really enforce that without likely stamping over one element or the other. You can't say that stuff is off-topic for coverage of things as it generally very much is a factor in some way. Just as people are allowed to say they're excited about a game, they should be able to say they won't support it for problematic elements that property is involved in.
I suppose that mods could attach a disclaimer on the, as an example, Wizarding World RPG reveal thread with acknowledgement of Rowling's issues and that the Wizarding World/Harry Potter franchise is very much attached to her currently for the "art isn't the artist" crowd but the thread is about the content of the reveal itself, but it still feels a bit like trying to stifle or segregate the discussion. It's bad enough that OTs are treated generally as the hype/positive or gtfo threads and all the other threads are the mud pits. It would be nice to spread it about a little more, but there's not really a solution to that I'm seeing.
People just tend to just dog pile and not report, and the mod team has had issues of the past of getting dunked on for not responding to a situation when it was never brought to their attention in the first place until someone finally uses the feature well after or one of the mods looks in the thread by chance. No one isn't getting police called on them for getting their post reported, so snitch away or at least just ignore the user if they're a constant problem on a personal level but not in a way that is against any rules.
I don't know how to deal with things, I don't know what the right answer is. I moderated gaf for a few years, and I've been here for a few years, and my overall impression is that the community frequently feels unpleasant to be in. I don't think the general composition of personality traits has changed much over the last... 10 years or whatever, it's just that now the abrasive, obnoxious, aggressive people don't use homophobic slurs anymore. Great, but they're still abrasive, obnoxious and aggressive. I know several people I considered very valuable members of the community who have left because this place just drained them. As I said - I don't know what the answer is, and I was on the other side of moderation so I know how hard it is to make the right call. That's just how I feel about it.
I'm more of a lurker than I am a participant... just like the old place. I think I had my learning experience posting something that was a bit... tone deaf in the particular thread. It didn't go down well, and I think part of it was my fault. I might be speaking for myself, but our current society and current events really force us to dehumanize each other. Also information moves so quickly and things are looking so grim I think that we're all a bit on edge.
I hope we can focus less on the negativity and anxiety we're all feeling and just focus on creating and supporting a community. It was great seeing resetera created from the outside because I felt like when this community came on board the general sentiment was so positive. It didn't really seem like people were focused as much on what was wrong with the old place, but what kind of new place we would create together.
With all that said I hope everyone is just taking care of themselves mentally and physically and that we're all unplugging and thinking about all the other important things in our lives. This is a really great time for introspection and self-improvement.
I hope we can focus less on the negativity and anxiety we're all feeling and just focus on creating and supporting a community. It was great seeing resetera created from the outside because I felt like when this community came on board the general sentiment was so positive. It didn't really seem like people were focused as much on what was wrong with the old place, but what kind of new place we would create together.
With all that said I hope everyone is just taking care of themselves mentally and physically and that we're all unplugging and thinking about all the other important things in our lives. This is a really great time for introspection and self-improvement.
I can see that, and I'm sorry that I've been contributing and actively doing it myself.
I've just thought about it as free no consequence internet fun. I never thought about whether or not I've been actively making situations worse.
Appreciate the response. I can understand wanting to make news more visible rather than hide it from the world. I've accepted that a news forum will never happen, generally with the thought that it didn't work so well the time they tried.
I feel like there has to be a compromise here, though. I think tagging can work; it doesn't even have to be visible on the main page; just make thread owners categorize their threads to allow people to turn on and off when they choose. There are days where I want to read news, and then there are days where I don't want to read news.
I know people could say, "just don't come here then", and that is essentially what I have been trying to do (unfortunately) even though this has been a part of my "routine" for quite some time.
I think I remember the post you're talking about. I liked that you admitted your fault pretty quickly and I disagree with the persons that continued to chase after you after the fact. ResetEra should always be a place that fosters growth.
Just thinking. Maybe mods should get an alert when a particular post has been replied to many times. Chances are it's 1 of 3 things. 1) a shitty take which deserves moderation. 2) something with a different view from the norm where the folks dogpiling perhaps need moderating. 3) a hilarious response to something that folks are responding to positively, in which case the mods get a good laugh.
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I don't know how feasible this is but I kind of like this idea. If a post is getting that many responses there's probably something noteworthy about it.
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