We need to be more positive and less hostile as a forum

[TheIdiot]

An hour back Omnistalgic made a thread about how the general negativity is permeating the forum and finding its way into every other thread.

This person raised fair points on how we as a forum can change, including discouraging sensationalist thread titles and encouraging people to research before making a thread.

To this I add that as a community we need to stop insulting other users the moment they say something they don't agree with. Let me be clear: I am not talking about bigoted statements, or political threads on the gaming sides, I am talking about people that look for any excuse to shit on another person just because that type of behavior is allowed here.

This thread has been made in an attempt to continue the discussion that started in the other thread. Forum administrator Poodlestrike said the team wants to have a discussion about having less hostility and toxicity in this forum, and I would like to have this discussion both as a community and as a forum user who abides by the rules and guidelines set by the administrators and moderators.

We're level-headed, mature individuals, and we should be able to have a dialogue and reflect as a community on how we can improve our experience on this site.

The previous thread was locked because of the framing of the OT, so I ask everyone that posts here to please not mix politics into this. This is NOT about politics being annoying or "poo-pooing progressivism" as unfairly stated by Poodlestrike. The fact that this forum takes political matters seriously is an absolute strength of the forum, part of its integrity, and something that should continue indefinitely.

But I disagree with blaming the negativity on the state of the world. This has been ongoing since the forum's inception, it's simply been more apparent lately because people have more time to frequent the forum.

I've posted this in EtcetEra as I feel that this is a general issue that needs to be addressed at a forum-wide level.

Mods: If you feel this thread is inappropriate, for whatever reason, I implore you to post a staff post stating the reason, but leaving it open to give us the chance to prove we can hold a mature discourse, rather than shutting down any chance of having a real discussion.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Any number of posts in the other thread were explicitly or implicitly whining about "politics in gaming." So I would reject your characterization of my comments as unfair.

As for the rest... yeah, hostility and toxicity is something we want to cut down on. We've increased bans for hostility in general, but these are trying times, and trying to mandate that people only make positive, in-depth contributions isn't really reasonable. Got to find a balance, really.

 

[Lord Fanny]

So, this isn't about being a reaction to politics, but please don't mix politics in with these discussions, and then called the statement from the person who locked the other thing unfair? I don't know, man, not off the best of starts lol. I think your hearts in the right place, but you're aiming in a lot of directions that probably aren't very realistic

 

[poptire]

I think most people on the forum are reasonable and want to be part of a like-minded community. There are, however, a few bad-faith posters or trolls who enjoy coming into any discussion ready to derail. I don't know how else to handle those people other than ignores/bans.

 

[Glasfrut]

Any number of posts in the other thread were explicitly or implicitly whining about "politics in gaming." So I would reject your characterization of my comments as unfair.

Click to shrink...

Honestly, this is what I end up at even when I do generally agree about the other points. People want to be able to slide through with slick comments and not catch bans for it. If not that, it's about avoiding uncomfortable truths about their hobby.

I get people come here to escape but why does someone's escape entail shutting out my concerns as a human?

 

[SpottieO]

Probably a bad example in the OP but I have noticed it also. Particularly egregious on the gaming side. A whole lot of this isn't exactly what I want therefore it is shit.

Like I think the Paper Mario reveal or the Pokémon Unite threads are probably the perfect examples. Those threads were just absolute dumpster fires.

 

[Volimar]

I think there's something to be said for people who find a bad post and decide to just zero in on it and unleash hell, thinking they're entitled to because it's a bad post. We can do better than adding to the hostility. Dogpiles might make you feel good but they don't help the forum health.

 

[SpaceCrystal]

I think most people on the forum are reasonable and want to be part of a like-minded community. There are, however, a few bad-faith posters or trolls who enjoy coming into any discussion ready to derail. I don't know how else to handle those people other than ignores/bans.

Click to shrink...

And that is what needs to be done.

 

[Hoa]

The previous thread was locked because of the framing of the OT, so I ask everyone that posts here to please not mix politics into this. This is NOT about politics being annoying or "poo-pooing progressivism" as unfairly stated by Poodlestrike. The fact that this forum takes political matters seriously is an absolute strength of the forum, part of its integrity, and something that should continue indefinitely.

Click to shrink...

I don't think what poodlestrike said was unfair, because there were a significant amount of the replies talking about separating politics from gaming into it's own section or not liking the rise of political topics in that section.

I think Filipus' thread on the other side about the quality of replies is a great talking point though

Let's talk about the level of discourse on Gaming Side. AKA ban 3 word posts.

Since there is no feedback topic at all on this forum I assumed it would be okay to make one here. In line with a topic that was just locked here I think we need to have a conversation about the level of discourse on Gaming Side. Although Resetera is a place where we post news it is primarily...

www.resetera.com

 

[Betty]

We're a long way from Twitter or Gamefaqs levels but yeah, we should be more positive and less negative.

I do think a big reason for some hostility is just because of how stressful and exhausting the world and news is right now.

Things will get better.

 

[Border]

I said as much in the other thread, but positivity does not generate Replies, Responses, and Engagement.

Because visibility on this forum is directly and exclusivity tied to the number of Replies and the frequency of Replies, threads involving arguments, controversy, and heated discussions will inevitably rise to the top and have the highest visibility.

if I were designing some kind of algorithm to determine what appears on the Front Page, I'd probably implement a Like/Smile/Love button and use that to at least partially determine what gets promoted to the top of the list.

 

[TheIdiot]

Any number of posts in the other thread were explicitly or implicitly whining about "politics in gaming." So I would reject your characterization of my comments as unfair.

As for the rest... yeah, hostility and toxicity is something we want to cut down on. We've increased bans for hostility in general, but these are trying times, and trying to mandate that people only make positive, in-depth contributions isn't really reasonable. Got to find a balance, really.

Click to shrink...

I believed it was overall unfair because while there were definitely a fair amount of people conveniently misinterpreting the OP, there was still an interesting and nuanced discussion taking place, and there was no hostility present in the thread.

 

[kmfdmpig]

I think one thing that would help is if people didn't try to purposefully misconstrue postings to take them in a negative light. It seems like there's a lot of that at times and it just leads to needless hostility. If the poster has a history of implying something that they're not saying then it's one thing but it would be a more pleasant place to post if there wasn't so many posters who assumed bad intent when it's not really there.

 

[Deleted member 21411]

My comments there apply here, we dog pile and many people are so focused on "owning" and replaying with snark I think they end up saying really fucked up shit half the time and creating a more hostile environment. I'm guilty of some of that but there's a lot of "I should be racist it furthers my progressive goals" so many fucking times. Its not even like something a modern can just fix with the ban.

Example that comes to my mind, any time Tencent's comes up it's not the Chinese government brought it it's the entire people of china. People get racist fast

I said as much in the other thread, but positivity does not generate Replies, Responses, and Engagement.

Because visibility on this forum is directly and exclusivity tied to the number of Replies and the frequency of Replies, threads involving arguments, controversy, and heated discussions will inevitably rise to the top and have the highest visibility.

if I were designing some kind of algorithm to determine what appears on the Front Page, I'd probably implement a Like/Smile/Love button and use that to at least partially determine what gets promoted to the top of the list.

Click to shrink...

see this is the kind of change I really think needs to happen. My worry is it'll get abused for a "sick takedown" rather than the original intention

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

Any number of posts in the other thread were explicitly or implicitly whining about "politics in gaming." So I would reject your characterization of my comments as unfair.

Click to shrink...

Thanks for addressing that both in the previous thread and here.

Wasn't sure how to voice my concern about that without it seeming antagonistic on the gaming side but the transparency of it was frustrating to see.

 

[MoosetheMark]

I don't think it's fair to characterize these criticisms entirely as "stop talking about politics." I want to talk about politics and social issues here but in a less exhausting, aggressive and toxic way. The two shouldn't be mutually exclusive.

 

[Kientin]

I've been trying my best to try to be more aware of any negativity in my posts because I have noticed the negativity lately. In threads about games or whatever media I like I just enjoy discussions in general even when someone doesn't like what I like. It's kind of a downer when someone trashes something especially without reasoning. But it's just as bad or worse when fans of said thing just attack someone else, sometimes personally, in retaliation. Then all of a sudden the thread is more about lashing out against each other rather than discussing the actual thread subject.

Thanks for making this. Even if it just makes a couple people more aware of what they are posting I think it's well worth it.

 

[lesserpanda]

My mental health cannot take politics, however, whenever I read threads that adcovate for greater political agency I see posts that regard people like me (who just want to play games. It doesn't matter how they're made, just as long as they're fun) as cowards. I understand the need for politics in games, but some of us are not political and some of us can't even handle political discourse without causing them further mental health issues. The world is bad enough already and now it's leaking into the medium that I love and I feel like i'm starting to fall into a corner where I can't escape from. I'm not attacking people for wanting politics in games, so please don't attack me for only seeing games as a medium of escapism and joy. My mental health needs this escape :/

 

[PaulloDEC]

I think the main reason this place can be such a downer lately for me lately is that it regularly feels like a "Here's who you should hate today!" notice board. Just endless threads about people, usually minor public figures (thanks to Twitter, almost anyone qualifies as this), who've done bad things and are now on the naughty list.

And it's not that these people don't deserve the consequences of their actions so much as that it's exhausting and depressing to be constantly seeing those kinds of threads.

 

[Poodlestrike]

I believed it was overall unfair because while there were definitely a fair amount of people conveniently misinterpreting the OP, there was still an interesting and nuanced discussion taking place, and there was no hostility present in the thread.

Click to shrink...

And we can try to have that same discussion here, where those posts aren't dragging things down. Again, I'm fine with having the discussion. But... well, I think that just looking at hostility sort of sums up the issue. It's possible to be toxic without being hostile.

Thanks for addressing that both in the previous thread and here.

Wasn't sure how to voice my concern about that without it seeming antagonistic on the gaming side but the transparency of it was frustrating to see.

Click to shrink...

Yeah. TBH at first I wanted to try and have this conversation in that thread, but it became clear reading those posts that it wasn't going to be possible.

I think one thing that would help is if people didn't try to purposefully misconstrue postings to take them in a negative light. It seems like there's a lot of that at times and it just leads to needless hostility. If the poster has a history of implying something that they're not saying then it's one thing but it would be a more pleasant place to post if there wasn't so many posters who assumed bad intent when it's not really there.

Click to shrink...

I've tried talking about this before, but ultimately I think that it's something we kind of have to address as a community. Staff can't read people's minds. If we know somebody is being disingenuous because they've taken off the mask in the past, we can do something, and we're working more on getting people for the kind of slick posts that'd normally go uncommented on, but...

 

[CountAntonio]

I don't think it's fair to characterize these criticisms entirely as "stop talking about politics." I want to talk about politics and social issues here but in a less exhausting, aggressive and toxic way. The two shouldn't be mutually exclusive.

Click to shrink...

I think the main reason this place can be such a downer lately for me lately is that it regularly feels like a "Here's who you should hate today!" notice board. Just endless threads about people, usually minor public figures (thanks to Twitter, almost anyone qualifies as this), who've done bad things and are now on the naughty list.

And it's not that these people don't deserve the consequences of their actions so much as that it's exhausting and depressing to be constantly seeing those kinds of threads.

Click to shrink...

These two posts I agree with.

 

[Border]

see this is the kind of change I really think needs to happen. My worry is it'll get abused for a "sick takedown" rather than the original intention

Click to shrink...

I think you would only want to have a system that accepts postive feedback -- only Likes/Loves. No Disklikes or downvotes.

Ideally, I would not even want the number of Likes to be publicly viewable. Or at best there would be a rating determined by the ratio of Views-to-Likes, and that would be public. The rating would then have some weight in determining what content gets promoted.

Maybe make it fun by having a LOVE button that counts for as much as 10 Likes, but each user can only Love one thread per day.

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

I don't think it's fair to characterize these criticisms entirely as "stop talking about politics." I want to talk about politics and social issues here but in a less exhausting, aggressive and toxic way.

Click to shrink...

There were numerous posts in the previous thread that wanted to separate the discussion of politics from gaming industry related discourse completely.

I do, however, agree that the general discourse can be exhausting and needlessly aggressive with an absence of nuanced or thoughtful discourse found in numerous threads. I've taken to reading mostly and briefly commenting as a lot of these issues seem sidetracked far too often in order to focus on posters or things beside the point instead of actually discussing the topic at hand.

 

[Servbot24]

It's always a little annoying how giddy people are to pile onto a controversy no matter how small. It just reeks of "this is my chance to show i'm a good person by saying i don't like that bad thing". And then you get a thread that just reads:

-yikes
-oof
-oof
-yikes
-side eye
-cringe
-oof
-yikes

Like I don't really want to read that even if they are justified posts.

 

[Deleted member 21709]

What, that thread got closed?!

 

[bionic77]

It is hard to write out thoughtful and positive posts.

It is way easier to just emote and say how much you hate something.

Thats just the internet and probably humanity as well.

I also don't think it is that hard to find the cooler posters and posts and ignore the crappy ones.

I mean did you really have to read all 10,000 Star Wars threads to realize every single one was hot garbage? I figured it out on my own around 3000....

I wish there was more positivity and intelligence in general, not just on this board. But I am very skeptical of ever seeing that behavior be the norm.

 

[JasonV]

I want to talk about politics and social issues here but in a less exhausting, aggressive and toxic way.

Click to shrink...

What do you characterise as exhausting? Aggressive? Toxic?

 

[Alex3190]

I've been wanting to make this thread for a while, just never got to it.

I agree that this thread needs to be more positive.

 

[LiK]

We can have good healthy debates. Just remember to avoid insults and personal attacks. Discuss the issues and your POV. Gotta be reasonable to receive the same treatment. That's all I hope for in every thread.

 

[Siggy-P]

I feel a lot of fun or otherwise positive threads get randomly locked for not offering "productive discussion" or some variant of it. And those random funny threads are the sort of thing that build community spirit.

But I agree with the Poodle that a lot of people also just wanna frame the discussion on this forums growing hostility to sneak in sly comments, posts in bad faith or otherwise objectionable content.

Aside from all that, speaking about us as a community we have an serious problem with dogpiling. That and purposefully disengenuous loaded OP's that misrepresent the articles they're posting

 

[Deleted member 4034]

It's always a little annoying how giddy people are to pile onto a controversy no matter how small. It just reeks of "this is my chance to show i'm a good person by saying i don't like that bad thing". And then you get a thread that just reads:

-yikes
-oof
-oof
-yikes
-side eye
-cringe
-oof
-yikes

Like I don't really want to read that even if they are justified posts.

Click to shrink...

That list in response to blantant racism always makes me mad.

As someone that's eaten several hostility bans, my frustration comes from a few things.

- People saying I'm mad when I'm not.
- People being condescending toward me.
- My argument being misconstrued to be taken as the worst thing despite any clarification or apology on my part (any criticism of a console or company means I hate then, not that I own their system or game and am speaking as a fan or anything).
- Someone saying something really stupid and acting like they didn't.

 

[Odrion]

I think our history kinda fucked us. No one trusts anybody and it's been that way since the old forum exploded.

 

[PrivateWHudson]

I said as much in the other thread, but positivity does not generate Replies, Responses, and Engagement.

Because visibility on this forum is directly and exclusivity tied to the number of Replies and the frequency of Replies, threads involving arguments, controversy, and heated discussions will inevitably rise to the top and have the highest visibility.

if I were designing some kind of algorithm to determine what appears on the Front Page, I'd probably implement a Like/Smile/Love button and use that to at least partially determine what gets promoted to the top of the list.

Click to shrink...

You are correct that engagement is driven by controversy, but if I want "popularity" content, I'll just go to reddit.

 

[Hoa]

I think the main reason this place can be such a downer lately for me lately is that it regularly feels like a "Here's who you should hate today!" notice board. Just endless threads about people, usually minor public figures (thanks to Twitter, almost anyone qualifies as this), who've done bad things and are now on the naughty list.

And it's not that these people don't deserve the consequences of their actions so much as that it's exhausting and depressing to be constantly seeing those kinds of threads.

Click to shrink...

If society wouldn't keep sticking its head in the sand until shit hits the fan then it wouldn't be an issue. If people were held accountable from the jump we'd have less of these incidents popping up all at the same time involving people who got 5 too many passes.

But we rarely seem to learn.

 

[TaySan]

Be the change you wish to see. I'm doing the best i can to avoid personal insults and try to be more positive whenever i can. :D

 

[Quzar]

I'm curious where this falls in line for those that want to talk politics and political figures, because I'm assuming that "positive posts only" means that those with critiques should stfu and leave. Which, sure.

 

[Speevy]

Can I ask a question of public interest about moderation?

How much of moderation comes from people using the report button or quoting undesirable posts and how much of it comes from just things you noticed while browsing the board?

 

[Deleted member 11413]

I think the main reason this place can be such a downer lately for me lately is that it regularly feels like a "Here's who you should hate today!" notice board. Just endless threads about people, usually minor public figures (thanks to Twitter, almost anyone qualifies as this), who've done bad things and are now on the naughty list.

And it's not that these people don't deserve the consequences of their actions so much as that it's exhausting and depressing to be constantly seeing those kinds of threads.

Click to shrink...

You're not wrong but also what's the alternative? Seriously, if people are speaking about abuse, harassment, racism, etc. isn't it important to provide a platform for that? If not here, where?

I get that it's exhausting, I find a lot of the stories of abuse triggering of my own trauma. I hate seeing that shit constantly, over and over again. It puts me in a dark place. But it's necessary. People NEED to know. Otherwise how else is progress made?

 

[ScoobsJoestar]

Like to be perfectly honest I'm always torn about visiting this forum because on one hand it has some really good discussion but on the other hand it's so negative I actively feel worse after browsing it lol I should probably request a ban one of these days to break the habit.

 

[Deleted member 4034]

I think the main reason this place can be such a downer lately for me lately is that it regularly feels like a "Here's who you should hate today!" notice board. Just endless threads about people, usually minor public figures (thanks to Twitter, almost anyone qualifies as this), who've done bad things and are now on the naughty list.

And it's not that these people don't deserve the consequences of their actions so much as that it's exhausting and depressing to be constantly seeing those kinds of threads.

Click to shrink...

Plus the severe overestimation that anyone on the forum can actually do something about these people.

 

[Fiction]

It's really hard to stay positive nowadays, even for me who had a reputation as being super nice on the other forum.

I find myself snapping at people and then regretting it often these days. And I'm sorry for that. Everything is just so damned stressful.

I still love you all

 

[Arc]

I think we just need to chill the fuck out on all fronts. This is a videogame forum, not a courtroom. Don't shame people for enjoying themselves here because there is shit going on in the world, and don't try to pretend that there isn't shit going on in the world.

 

[cursed knowledge]

Can I ask a question of public interest about moderation?

How much of moderation comes from people using the report button or quoting undesirable posts and how much of it comes from just things you noticed while browsing the board?

Click to shrink...

i was just wondering about this as well

 

[Volimar]

Can I ask a question of public interest about moderation?

How much of moderation comes from people using the report button or quoting undesirable posts and how much of it comes from just things you noticed while browsing the board?

Click to shrink...

Speaking for my time as a mod, I almost never just happened across a rule violation. And when I did, that just meant that I reported it instead of a regular member, aside from simple things like a title change/wrong forum/dupe thread. Mods seriously rely on reports.

 

[Ruisu]

Hmm, nah. I don't buy this desire for positivity. Feels more like a need to ignore real problems even if the OP claims otherwise, I mean, generic negativity is not really something you can solve? Neither is generic hostility, you need to actually point out what specifically is the problem otherwise you'll just have a bunch of people with their own "this is what's wrong with resetera" takes that lead to the last thread.

Users shitting on other users? Is that happening for real? What is shitting in this context? Is the problem that the forum is just not polite enough? Like I said, you can't solve any problem if you're not specific.

 

[PaulloDEC]

You're not wrong but also what's the alternative? Seriously, if people are speaking about abuse, harassment, racism, etc. isn't it important to provide a platform for that? If not here, where?

I get that it's exhausting, I find a lot of the stories of abuse triggering of my own trauma. I hate seeing that shit constantly, over and over again. It puts me in a dark place. But it's necessary. People NEED to know. Otherwise how else is progress made?

Click to shrink...

I really don't know. I guess it sometimes feels like Era is simply outlet number #57 to jump onto the pile; it feels more like we're joining in on an established story than actually doing anything significant in terms of boosting the signal. Maybe that's unfair.

Plus the severe overestimation that anyone on the forum can actually do something about these people.

Click to shrink...

Well, yeah. The eventual outcome seems to usually just be that more people know that a person did something bad, which has value. But in terms of any practical, real-world outcome? I'm not sure there's any to be had.

 

[Deleted member 1120]

There are a lot of people on this site at each other's throats for various reasons.
It's never going to be more positive, especially in the lead up to console launches. The fanboys are ready at their keyboards.

 

[DeliciousSunnyD!]

It is hard to write out thoughtful and positive posts.

It is way easier to just emote and say how much you hate something.

Thats just the internet and probably humanity as well.

I also don't think it is that hard to find the cooler posters and posts and ignore the crappy ones.

I mean did you really have to read all 10,000 Star Wars threads to realize every single one was hot garbage? I figured it out on my own around 3000....

I wish there was more positivity and intelligence in general, not just on this board. But I am very skeptical of ever seeing that behavior be the norm.

Click to shrink...

I agree on all your points.

This feels more like a human being problem and not a specific "forum" problem.

This community, in my eyes, is still one of the best on the web and it's because of how it functionally works, the people it attracts, the behavior/views it moderates.

I pray that this community never moves to a reputation/like-farming system.

 

[krazen]

I dunno. Gaming side is a shitshow because, well, "Gamers."

As far as politics and etc on Etcera I feel that while it's negative at times (we are in the middle of a pandemic + recession + worldwide sociopolitical protests, what do you expect) generally the mood while angry, isn't per say completely negative. There's less of a defeatist attitude imho than most corners of the internet.

 

[night814]

I think most people on the forum are reasonable and want to be part of a like-minded community. There are, however, a few bad-faith posters or trolls who enjoy coming into any discussion ready to derail. I don't know how else to handle those people other than ignores/bans.

Click to shrink...

If you think they are legit trolling then report and then ignore, if enough people do that they won't have anyone left to troll.

There's definitely a lot of negativity, I think it's more of an internet as a whole problem though rather then this forum in particular. I don't think there is generally much that can be done about it because a lot of positive story's will get ignored because there is no controversy or anything to debate/discuss other then "that's good".