• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Status
Not open for further replies.

unknownspectator

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,192
few weeks ago, there was a thread called "we need to talk about how we treat sexual assault victims" and it was closed due to complaints from the mods that it was only there for criticisms of other users and mods. I've noticed that very few allies posted their support, some went in their to dog on them, and only a couple of mods posted but it was mostly to enforce the rules and ultimately closed the thread but this isn't just on the mods as a whole, it's to everyone who calls themselves an ally. That thread was a huge red exclamation point and it's telling us we need to be better allies Era. So, how can we do that?

For starters, we can cease shaming them for not wanting to vote for Biden, we can actually believe women no matter who they are accusing, and we need to listen to them. So Era, how will you be a better ally? To those who are sexual assault victims, please tell us how to be better allies towards you.
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 30681

user requested account closure
Banned
Nov 4, 2017
3,184
I think being better allies, would first require everyone on this site to acknowledge that there are actual real, legitimate reasons not to vote for Joe Biden. That in the case of victims of sexual assault the trauma and pain caused by voting for Joe Biden is very real, and is also a legitimate reason for victims to decide not to vote for him. As long as that isn't acknowledged and isn't respected then I don't think we're going to go anywhere with this. Not every person who has chosen not to vote for Joe Biden is a angry Bernie Sanders supporter who wants to re-ignite the flames of the primary and has a "my way or the highway" view on this election. Not every person who has chosen not to vote for Joe Biden hates minority groups, nor is anyone trying to persuade anyone else not to vote.

The bottom line is, certain marginalized groups don't feel comfortable voting for Joe Biden, and I think the most basic of basic human decency is to acknowledge, and understand the reasons why people don't feel comfortable with that, and even if you don't agree with their decision the least you can do is respect their decision. That respect should go both ways.

As someone who isn't a sexual assault victim, but someone who has chosen not to vote for Joe Biden over other personal reasons, I ultimately understand and respect anyone who decides to vote for him. The stakes of this election are indeed massive, and I can acknowledge that, understand that, and I absolutely respect anyone's decision to vote for him. Unfortunately, I don't feel that level of understanding or respect has gone both ways, and it's really bothered me recently, because I think a lot of the shaming and yelling at people over not voting is only happening because people are comfortably shaming people from behind a computer monitor on their comfy chairs.

If I had a friend in real life who was a victim, tell me about not wanting to vote for Joe Biden, I would personally try to be as supportive of that friend as I possibly could be because that would be the humane thing to do. This site prides itself in being allies of marginalized groups, yet when those marginalized groups have an opinion that isn't in line with the majority their feelings are pushed to the side, instead of being understood and respected. That is ultimately all that is being asked and I think what has happened on this site in the past weeks has been anything but that. Instead of understanding and being supportive of victims on this site, many have turned to shaming them, or trying to argue the merit of their decision with them. These are human beings that are in great pain from being sexually assaulted, and it feels like that is being completely ignored and forgotten when they are being shamed, and people are trying to have arguments with them over their decision.
 

Sadsic

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,806
New Jersey
I think being better allies, would first require everyone on this site to acknowledge that there are actual real, legitimate reasons not to vote for Joe Biden. That in the case of victims of sexual assault the trauma and pain caused by voting for Joe Biden is very real, and is also a legitimate reason for victims to decide not to vote for him. As long as that isn't acknowledged and isn't respected then I don't think we're going to go anywhere with this. Not every person who has chosen not to vote for Joe Biden is a angry Bernie Sanders supporter who wants to re-ignite the flames of the primary and has a "my way or the highway" view on this election. Not every person who has chosen not to vote for Joe Biden hates minority groups, nor is anyone trying to persuade anyone else not to vote.

The bottom line is, certain marginalized groups don't feel comfortable voting for Joe Biden, and I think the most basic of basic human decency is to acknowledge, and understand the reasons why people don't feel comfortable with that, and even if you don't agree with their decision the least you can do is respect their decision. That respect should go both ways.

As someone who isn't a sexual assault victim, but someone who has chosen not to vote for Joe Biden over other personal reasons, I ultimately understand and respect anyone who decides to vote for him. The stakes of this election are indeed massive, and I can acknowledge that, understand that, and I absolutely respect anyone's decision to vote for him. Unfortunately, I don't feel that level of understanding or respect has gone both ways, and it's really bothered me recently, because I think a lot of the shaming and yelling at people over not voting is only happening because people are comfortably shaming people from behind a computer monitor on their comfy chairs.

If I had a friend in real life who was a victim, tell me about not wanting to vote for Joe Biden, I would personally try to be as supportive of that friend as I possibly could be because that would be the humane thing to do. This site prides itself in being allies of marginalized groups, yet when those marginalized groups have an opinion that isn't in line with the majority their feelings are pushed to the side, instead of being understood and respected. That is ultimately all that is being asked and I think what has happened on this site in the past weeks has been anything but that. Instead of understanding and being supportive of victims on this site, many have turned to shaming them, or trying to argue the merit of their decision with them. These are human beings that are in great pain from being sexually assaulted, and it feels like that is being completely ignored and forgotten when they are being shamed, and people are trying to have arguments with them over their decision.

i am a rape and abuse survivor and i dunno why anyone wouldnt vote for the democrat compared to trump (unless you were personally abused by joe biden or something) - the world is clearly being ruined by trump

personally i dont want people to talk to me like im irreparably broken and to treat me like i cant handle voting in a rational or pragmatic manner
 

MikeBreezy92

Member
Oct 28, 2019
574
i am a rape and abuse survivor and i dunno why anyone wouldnt vote for the democrat compared to trump (unless you were personally abused by joe biden or something) - the world is clearly being ruined by trump

personally i dont want people to talk to me like im irreparably broken and to treat me like i cant handle voting in a rational or pragmatic manner

This is why talking in a generalist manner about groups (sexual assault victims specifically) is kinda off and weird. Allyship is more about stepping back and not yelling over people who can speak for themselves and only amplify afterwards. You can say you want people to be better allies but if your brand of allyship overreaching and talking for people there's gonna be the reoccurring issues we've seen the past few weeks.

Its been a lot of generalizing and talking for other people. I get people being passionate but it's clear that people are definitely leaving bits and pieces of ideology at the door to push whatever viewpoint they have and everyone is coming off like assholes.
 

Deleted member 7130

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,685
It's jarring seeing how few replies this topic has compared to the 19 pages of the previous one...
i am a rape and abuse survivor and i dunno why anyone wouldnt vote for the democrat compared to trump (unless you were personally abused by joe biden or something) - the world is clearly being ruined by trump

personally i dont want people to talk to me like im irreparably broken and to treat me like i cant handle voting in a rational or pragmatic manner
I don't think anyone begrudges you making whatever choice you want. On the flip side, I think it crosses the line to imply there's something wrong with other survivors or other marginalized people for not making that same choice.
 

UltraMav

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,733
I dated and am still friends with a girl who is a rape survivor. Not only that, but she has a daughter as a result of that rape.

When this all broke about Biden, I asked her point blank what she was planning to do. Without hesitation, she said she would vote for Biden, as Trump's evils were too great to ignore, and she wanted a better world for her daughter.

I hated that she was put into this position in the first place, but I understood.

However, that's a personal choice that she made and I can't blame other survivors for making the opposite choice. It all comes down to what you prioritize and value the most, as an individual. I, for example, will be voting for Biden, but I don't begrudge anyone who can't stomach it for whatever reasons.

At the end of the day, we need to show compassion and understanding for those who can't do that, and realize there are legitimate reasons to feel that way. We deserve better than the options we have been provided.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
I know the other thread was not about and never had any intent to speak for every single sexual abuse victim. It was created to give a voice to those who are victims and also feel abandoned and/or uncomfortable/unsafe on this forum (the many people who spoke out and are still speaking out), especially in light of what has happened in the last month or so with Tara Reade. We were not speaking for every victim, and I don't believe anyone claimed to.

I think the request or general point is very clear (even if you are a victim yourself):

Please support victims and people who step forward with allegations of sexual harassment/assault, especially when there is no reason to doubt them. Please don't shame people simply for choosing not to vote for someone accused of rape. Please don't downplay or dismiss credible accusations.

All of these things go a long way to make us feel more comfortable and even respected. I don't even feel like I can post in many threads that I want to because I know I will be piled and harassed for simply sticking up for myself and other victims who have become discouraged and defeated.

Likewise, if people are simply trashing others solely because they have decided to vote for Biden, it should be called out too. My parents are very likely going to vote Biden. I talked to them about the allegations and they, surprisingly, carefully considered what Reade and the other 7 accusers have had to say (I think that's the right count).

They didn't downplay what was happening, they didn't rationalize refusing to believe a credible allegation. I wasn't blamed or shamed for my position; my own experiences were taken into consideration. They took time to try to listen and provide empathy. I respect them and their decision believe victims while still voting to do what they feel is right. I got lucky. I don't know what would have happened if it went the other way.

Despite disagreeing, I understand their likely decision. I didn't fight them on it or try to sway them; I simply wanted to make sure they were aware of the allegations, because every person has a right to know (as recently as about 2 weeks ago, they hadn't heard about the allegations of sexual harassment rape).

I think Reade said it best:
You don't have to discredit me or not believe me to vote for Joe Biden.
It's the right position to take, regardless of how you feel about this election.

Believe women. Believe survivors.
 

Sadsic

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,806
New Jersey
It's jarring seeing how few replies this topic has compared to the 19 pages of the previous one...

I don't think anyone begrudges you making whatever choice you want. On the flip side, I think it crosses the line to imply there's something wrong with other survivors or other marginalized people for not making that same choice.

i mean you definitely CAN choose not to vote for the oppositional party against Trump but it's not really in anyone's interest to do so unless you support Trump - being a sexual assault survivor doesnt really change that to me, but i get that someone who's recently been traumatized may feel differently

i am about 8 years outside of my abusive situation so i generally am pretty clearheaded about this but if i was in my original traumatized state i might have felt differently and i get it might be like that for others too, and i definitely wouldnt argue about fucking voting to someone in that state

but for someone who has generally moved on from being traumatized i would feel comfortable trying to talk about the virtues of voting pragmatically, and also understand that they might not actually agree with me, but i would still advocate for the conversation to be had
 

Deleted member 8644

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
975
This forum just gives way too much importance to itself. Some people here think that bullying a few people into voting democrat will make any sort of difference, the truth is that if this whole forum voted D it wouldn't make any difference at all, so why be an asshole? Do you go to sleep at night thinking that you're making people feel bad but it's all worth it to save the world?
 

lurksalot

Avenger
Oct 30, 2017
180
I think *most* people here are allies to sexual assault victims, but unfortunately remain quiet because they don't want to be labeled "rape apologists" by the vocal minority that refuse or are incapable of seeing a difference between Biden and Trump.

I can't say for certain if Biden has done the things he has been accused of, but I can say for certain that Trump, his family, and the GOP in general are all horrible, and ANY candidate that can end the travesty that is the current GOP rule will be a better ally to women, LGBTQ, minorities and anyone that doesn't have a voice or someone to stand up for them.

I do believe that Warren, Bernie or Yang would be better presidents, and are pushing for ideas that can truly better both America and the world, however the bulk of the American people that vote Democratic aren't ready for these changes and have voted for Biden. I feel that Trump has indirectly caused this, by making people feel that instead of swinging the pendulum as far left as possible, we should start with getting it closer to the middle, as that is what we know and are comfortable with from past experiences. If Biden can win the election, and choose someone as his running mate that can inspire these types of big changes in the future, then that is a start, and maybe a path to atoning for any wrongs he may have committed in his past.
 
Apr 25, 2020
3,418
I don't begrudge anyone from taking the attitude that Trump and his criminal cabal need to be removed no matter the cost. It's perfectly possible to seek justice for Biden's victims after he is president.
 

lurksalot

Avenger
Oct 30, 2017
180
The reality of the world is that not all people who deserve justice get it, here we are 150 years past slavery and still discussing the idea of reparations.
 

alexiswrite

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,418
People generally shouldn't discuss who they've voting for in emotionally charged settings like this one. Also, as I've observed people have very different understandings about what "believe women" means.
 

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,543
I think *most* people here are allies to sexual assault victims, but unfortunately remain quiet because they don't want to be labeled "rape apologists" by the vocal minority that refuse or are incapable of seeing a difference between Biden and Trump.


I think there's something to this when people who prioritize defeating Trump are treated not only as if they aren't allies but are actually apologists. Especially in light of the survivors who have been frankly bullied and had their experiences dismissed because they didn't go along with that vocal minority. Even the framing of this thread that it's people shaming survivors about voting when several of the people who have tried to do the convincing were survivors themselves. It's never been about others vs. survivors, and it is increasingly mischaracterized as being that way.

That said, it's long been my position that trying to convince people to vote who have categorically said that they won't is a waste of energy and often leads to frustration and hurt feelings. Prioritize people who are on the fence, and get the people who agree with you out to vote. Don't spend pages on a circular argument that convinces no one and leads people to feeling attacked. People know the stakes, but not everyone's priorities are the same.
 

ArkkAngel007

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
5,001
There's no reason to call out and harass survivors for not voting in this election. It's not a simple matter of choice, and no one should be put in that position. I'm not sure why there was such a poor response in handling people's ignorance there when, in a multitude of other subjects, that doesn't protect you. It's disgusting to imply that survivors are just accelarationists with excuses, and I wish there had been a stronger hand in dealing with those.

Likewise though, I think a major issue that ended up happening and aggravating things further was the implication or outright statements that everyone who will be voting for Biden is not an ally and/or condones sexual assault. I would hope the vast majority here have no ill intent or aren't seeking to harm or ignore victims of sexual assault in dealing with the choices they have in November. A lot of people can't afford to take some sort of moral high ground to prove anything with how things are and will continue to be, so let them get in the mud for hope things can be brought back around so there's another chance to not be in the same position. Maybe there's some luck and someone better steps in if the allegations take hold, but unfortunately that's difficult to expect.

Overall people need to take a step back and respect the situation of others if it isn't harmful and not in their control given their situation.
 

Deleted member 8644

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
975
Bill Clinton had a questionable history with women, and it has marked the legacy of his presidency and himself very harshly. Of course it's possible.
Bill Clinton raped women and he was impeached for an affair (with disgusting power dynamics, but not a cut and dried rape) for political reasons by the republicans. Do you think that's justice?
 

Mistouze

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,434
To be frank as a non american I don't feel like participating in these threads due to how they're basically "what's your opinion on voting for Biden" threads under the guise of discussion about the general public support of sexual assault victims.
 
Last edited:
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
At the very least, people shouldn't be guilt tripped into voting Biden. Biden would be replaced but people have given up hopes and locked him as the nomination.

Bill Clinton still gets cutesy Hulu docs about having a sexual affair with an intern. How has he faced any sort of consequence?
This is supposed to be a good ending for him?

He should have been in jail. A lot of people to this date like Bill Clinton, even though we know what he did.

Fact is, I doubt Biden will even go to justice especially if he becomes president.
 

Ephonk

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,944
Belgium
This is supposed to be a topic about sexual assault victims.
Every single post after the OP is about Biden (or Clinton once the discussions goes more offtopic.

Think about that. To me (not being from the US), that's part of what's wrong.
 

lurksalot

Avenger
Oct 30, 2017
180
User Banned (2 Weeks): Dismissive Commentary in a Sensitive Thread
At the very least, people shouldn't be guilt tripped into voting Biden. Biden would be replaced but people have given up hopes and locked him as the nomination.

If you don't want to vote for Biden, then hold your nose and vote against Trump, because we all know that the moment Trump wins 2020 every anti-Biden ERA member will be posting "if my guy had gotten the nomination this wouldn't have happened".

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
 
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
If you don't want to vote for Biden, then hold your nose and vote against Trump, because we all know that the moment Trump wins 2020 every anti-Biden ERA member will be posting "if my guy had gotten the nomination this wouldn't have happened".

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
See, this is what I am talking about.

This is called guilt tripping. If they are not able to vote for him then they shouldn't feel like they will cause misery later on if they don't. This is not how you treat people with personal trauma. If they are able to vote for him then that is their choice, if not you shouldn't guilt trip them.
 

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,244
The last thread was abysmal and it seems little was learned from it. Not surprising to see less people engaging with this after that one.
 

lurksalot

Avenger
Oct 30, 2017
180
What you call guilt-tripping, I can being pragmatic and realistic. What about the people with personal trauma that are affected by Trump being re-elected? Are their needs any less than yours? If I am to take your needs and personal trauma into account, shouldn't you also take their needs and do what is best for them? The door swings both ways.
 

CatDoggo

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
775
It's depressingly telling and also not surprising at all that this thread is largely being ignored or being turned into yet another attempt to guilt trip sexual assault survivors into voting for Biden. The people who need to gain some understanding and empathy will not, of course.

I'm going to be open and honest about my assault, so if this is triggering for anyone possibly reading this, here's a heads up.

When I was around maybe 10 or 11, I had someone who I thought was a friend hold me down and pretty much do to me exactly what Tara Reade has said Biden did to her. I did not tell anyone because I was a stupid kid who did not want to lose that friend and, thanks to how things were back then, I'd largely been socialized to believe that stuff like this was something that the opposite sex just did to you sometimes, in the same vein of how it's a trope that the more a boy treats you like shit, the more it means he just likes you. It wasn't until I was much older that I realized just how horrific it was that I allowed that to happen to me and didn't even say anything to anyone about it, or that I kept trying to be friends with the guy even though he kept trying to avoid me after doing that.

Does that invalidate what happened to me because it didn't hurt me as much as it should have back when it first happened? No.

There is no hope of any recourse for me, and if there was, seeing the way thing are, nobody would believe me anyway and just accuse me of trying to ruin his life. It would be, 'I waited too long to bring it back up again, why didn't I say something back then, why are some of the details inconsistent after 20-odd years', and so on and so forth. When I see how Reade is being treated, I see how I would be treated if I tried to come out against the person who assaulted me.

Watching the Dems close ranks and smear Reade using the exact same tactics republicans used to defend Kavenaugh and smear Ford has been incredibly depressing and aliening to watch. It's not just how badly this site has handle the situation, but it's everywhere. The smearing, the burying, the downplaying. Everywhere I go it's people calling her a liar and hurling abusive language at those who cannot bring themselves to vote for a creep. And then it becomes my fault for getting hostile because I'm not nice while pointing out rape apologia. It's bad enough that people do it, but then they go in circles trying to convince themselves that what they're doing isn't exactly what it is. YOU can't possibly be a bad person throwing assault victims under the bus in an attempt to downplay Reade's allegation, no, it is the assault victims who are wrong.

I mean, it's real life too. I had someone catch the smallest whiff that I'm not okay with voting for Biden and she dug in on me. She doesn't know about my assault and I can't comfortably bring it up to her at this point anyway. There is no empathy or understanding. Instead of trying to push the dem party to do better, the onus is pushed on us to make a sacrifice. We're expected to get in line 'for the greater good' while enduring all of the rape apologia and backhanded bullshit and we're apparently not supposed to resent that.

It's this frantic effort to white-wash Biden and paint all of his detractors as bad people or bad actors. It's disgusting to watch dems act no better than republicans. Rather than owe up to the flaws in their candidate, they demonize everyone else. On this site alone I've seen so many posts not-so-subtly imply what terrible people we are for not wanting to vote and give power to an assaulter, and any push back they receive usually ends with the person pushing back getting banned instead of the rape apologia. Sexual assault victims will be blamed if he loses. Hell, we're already being blamed, and I fear for what might happen to Reade if he loses.

Despite never really liking Biden in the first place, I was willing to hold my nose and vote for him 'for the greater good' despite knowing about his history of being touchy and his racist voting record, the same way I convinced myself to vote for Hilary despite not liking her or her polices very much either, but after a credible allegation and watching Dems close ranks and treat Reade and the people who believe her like shit, I can't do it anymore. If it comes down to two racist rapist, I'm bowing out. I lost friends convincing them to vote for Hilary, because I knew how bad Trump was. I partook in the browbeating at one point, not understanding how much it could hurt. Well, now I understand perfectly well how much it hurts.

I pretty much have to do everything in my power to keep my brother informed and drag him to the voting booth for every election, big or small. I will never bother again. I've been voting in every single election, no matter how small, since the day I hit voting age. I was proud to have been among those who voted to recall Scott Walker, even if that ended in failure. Instead of demonizing me, maybe consider what your party is doing to alienate a life long voter like me. Earn my vote by doing better, instead of browbeating me like you are owed my vote.

My plan was to vote down ballot in November, but I'm not even sure I can bring myself to vote at all anymore. I don't consider myself a democrat anymore, not after seeing how thoroughly they were willing to throw people like me under the bus. Neither party stands for people like me and I don't owe them my vote after how they have acted. I'm probably going to distance myself from politics all together going forward. It's just this black pit filled with terrible people. I got into politics thinking that I could help to make things better, but now I see that's mostly just a farce. We've got the evil party and the party that does evil things while convincing themselves they're good only because the other side is completely blatant in their evil. No matter who wins in the upcoming election, it will still be a dark day for me, because an abuser is going to get into power or remain in power and neither will ever see any consequences.
 

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,244
What you call guilt-tripping, I can being pragmatic and realistic. What about the people with personal trauma that are affected by Trump being re-elected? Are their needs any less than yours? If I am to take your needs and personal trauma into account, shouldn't you also take their needs and do what is best for them? The door swings both ways.
People aren't asking you to not vote for Biden, they're asking people to refrain from shaming or guilting people when they themselves choose not to.
 
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
What you call guilt-tripping, I can being pragmatic and realistic. What about the people with personal trauma that are affected by Trump being re-elected? Are their needs any less than yours? If I am to take your needs and personal trauma into account, shouldn't you also take their needs and do what is best for them? The door swings both ways.
So let me get this straight, you believe that one set of people is better than the other?

How about this, if people have reasons for not wanting to vote, they shouldn't vote. If people want to vote for someone then they should do so. Their vote is not other people's vote.


Guilt tripping is what you are doing now.
 

alexiswrite

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,418
User Banned (1 month): Dismissive commentary in a thread for supporting survivors. Pattern of trollish behaviour in similar threads.
It's depressingly telling and also not surprising at all that this thread is largely being ignored or being turned into yet another attempt to guilt trip sexual assault survivors into voting for Biden. The people who need to gain some understanding and empathy will not, of course.

I'm going to be open and honest about my assault, so if this is triggering for anyone possibly reading this, here's a heads up.

When I was around maybe 10 or 11, I had someone who I thought was a friend hold me down and pretty much do to me exactly what Tara Reade has said Biden did to her. I did not tell anyone because I was a stupid kid who did not want to lose that friend and, thanks to how things were back then, I'd largely been socialized to believe that stuff like this was something that the opposite sex just did to you sometimes, in the same vein of how it's a trope that the more a boy treats you like shit, the more it means he just likes you. It wasn't until I was much older that I realized just how horrific it was that I allowed that to happen to me and didn't even say anything to anyone about it, or that I kept trying to be friends with the guy even though he kept trying to avoid me after doing that.

Does that invalidate what happened to me because it didn't hurt me as much as it should have back when it first happened? No.

There is no hope of any recourse for me, and if there was, seeing the way thing are, nobody would believe me anyway and just accuse me of trying to ruin his life. It would be, 'I waited too long to bring it back up again, why didn't I say something back then, why are some of the details inconsistent after 20-odd years', and so on and so forth. When I see how Reade is being treated, I see how I would be treated if I tried to come out against the person who assaulted me.

Watching the Dems close ranks and smear Reade using the exact same tactics republicans used to defend Kavenaugh and smear Ford has been incredibly depressing and aliening to watch. It's not just how badly this site has handle the situation, but it's everywhere. The smearing, the burying, the downplaying. Everywhere I go it's people calling her a liar and hurling abusive language at those who cannot bring themselves to vote for a creep. And then it becomes my fault for getting hostile because I'm not nice while pointing out rape apologia. It's bad enough that people do it, but then they go in circles trying to convince themselves that what they're doing isn't exactly what it is. YOU can't possibly be a bad person throwing assault victims under the bus in an attempt to downplay Reade's allegation, no, it is the assault victims who are wrong.

I mean, it's real life too. I had someone catch the smallest whiff that I'm not okay with voting for Biden and she dug in on me. She doesn't know about my assault and I can't comfortably bring it up to her at this point anyway. There is no empathy or understanding. Instead of trying to push the dem party to do better, the onus is pushed on us to make a sacrifice. We're expected to get in line 'for the greater good' while enduring all of the rape apologia and backhanded bullshit and we're apparently not supposed to resent that.

It's this frantic effort to white-wash Biden and paint all of his detractors as bad people or bad actors. It's disgusting to watch dems act no better than republicans. Rather than owe up to the flaws in their candidate, they demonize everyone else. On this site alone I've seen so many posts not-so-subtly imply what terrible people we are for not wanting to vote and give power to an assaulter, and any push back they receive usually ends with the person pushing back getting banned instead of the rape apologia. Sexual assault victims will be blamed if he loses. Hell, we're already being blamed, and I fear for what might happen to Reade if he loses.

Despite never really liking Biden in the first place, I was willing to hold my nose and vote for him 'for the greater good' despite knowing about his history of being touchy and his racist voting record, the same way I convinced myself to vote for Hilary despite not liking her or her polices very much either, but after a credible allegation and watching Dems close ranks and treat Reade and the people who believe her like shit, I can't do it anymore. If it comes down to two racist rapist, I'm bowing out. I lost friends convincing them to vote for Hilary, because I knew how bad Trump was. I partook in the browbeating at one point, not understanding how much it could hurt. Well, now I understand perfectly well how much it hurts.

I pretty much have to do everything in my power to keep my brother informed and drag him to the voting booth for every election, big or small. I will never bother again. I've been voting in every single election, no matter how small, since the day I hit voting age. I was proud to have been among those who voted to recall Scott Walker, even if that ended in failure. Instead of demonizing me, maybe consider what your party is doing to alienate a life long voter like me. Earn my vote by doing better, instead of browbeating me like you are owed my vote.

My plan was to vote down ballot in November, but I'm not even sure I can bring myself to vote at all anymore. I don't consider myself a democrat anymore, not after seeing how thoroughly they were willing to throw people like me under the bus. Neither party stands for people like me and I don't owe them my vote after how they have acted. I'm probably going to distance myself from politics all together going forward. It's just this black pit filled with terrible people. I got into politics thinking that I could help to make things better, but now I see that's mostly just a farce. We've got the evil party and the party that does evil things while convincing themselves they're good only because the other side is completely blatant in their evil. No matter who wins in the upcoming election, it will still be a dark day for me, because an abuser is going to get into power or remain in power and neither will ever see any consequences.

You should be fully entitled to feel however you want to feel and act in regards to voting however you want to act without judgement. Obviously people shouldn't attack or smear Reade, however, people should also be allowed to have doubts especially given that this is not just a case where it's just "some of the details inconsistent after 20-odd years".
 

julia crawford

Took the red AND the blue pills
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,298
I remember that one post i dared to make about how victims, women or allies in general might feel so disempowered and failed by the system that they are likely to have a very hard time voting, and being met with a cavalcade of posters numbering all the ways in which Trump would be worse with palpable contempt.

Honestly i feel sorry for making that post, leaving those same people i talked about with even more awful posts to read through.
 

CatDoggo

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
775
You should be fully entitled to feel however you want to feel and act in regards to voting however you want to act without judgement. Obviously people shouldn't attack or smear Reade, however, people should also be allowed to have doubts especially given that this is not just a case where it's just "some of the details inconsistent after 20-odd years".

Uh, huh.

200.gif
 

Lentic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,836
I'm both surprised and unsurprised at some of the replies here. The entire point is that we should respect sexual assault survivors in both their decision to vote or not vote. Period.
The amount of stuff you can suddenly get away with on this forum, almost overnight, is something worth its own discussion.
 

Sadsic

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,806
New Jersey
So let me get this straight, you believe that one set of people is better than the other?

How about this, if people have reasons for not wanting to vote, they shouldn't vote. If people want to vote for someone then they should do so. Their vote is not other people's vote.


Guilt tripping is what you are doing now.

is there an acceptable way to try and convince someone to vote differently to you or is that just like a bad thing to do in your mind
 
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
is there an acceptable way to try and convince someone to vote differently to you or is that just like a bad thing to do in your mind
It depends.

When people have trauma or a good reason not to vote then they shouldn't be convinced. It is hard enough for them and trying to convince them will lead to guilt tripping most of the time.

In this case, we are talking about a rapist like biden. Trying to convince people who have trauma to vote for him is in bad taste.
 

Mekanos

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,184
is there an acceptable way to try and convince someone to vote differently to you or is that just like a bad thing to do in your mind

Realistically screaming at them about SCOTUS judges, abortion laws, etc. isn't going to be productive to someone who is pretty convinced they won't vote for Biden. They likely know about these things. You also have to accept that most people live in states that are either solidly blue or red. The demographics of posters on a video game forum who are mostly in their 20s and 30s are basically irrelevant in a general election, especially in a country where half the population doesn't vote as is.

I personally don't know how you would convince someone to vote for Biden outside of talking about all the bad things Trump did and will do, which is pretty much what this election comes down to. And if someone expresses being uncomfortable voting for Biden because they don't want to endorse who is he is a person and what that entails, you will probably either have to accept that or find a way to convince them that doesn't dismiss their own perspective on it, and their circumstances.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
is there an acceptable way to try and convince someone to vote differently to you or is that just like a bad thing to do in your mind
This is a thread about sexual assault victims. Do you think it's really appropriate to convince someone who has been sexually abused to vote for an alleged rapist with 8 different accusers involving various levels of misconduct? Someone who has already voiced that they won't do it for that very reason?
 

Cipherr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,439
This is supposed to be a topic about sexual assault victims.
Every single post after the OP is about Biden (or Clinton once the discussions goes more offtopic.

Think about that. To me (not being from the US), that's part of what's wrong.


This is exactly it. These topics are about the U.S. Election and the candidates full stop... Yeah you frame it otherwise but everyone sees right through it. And there's been a ton of them. There's nothing everyone on this forum hasn't said already on the topics that they wanted to.

The only people this serves now are those who are for whatever reason interested in re-arguing this every day of the week in thread after thread after thread after thread.

Seriously, don't act shocked that people got tired of it.

I've seen assault victims be talked over in all of these thread like they didn't even post at all. It's ridiculous; claim to be looking out for being a better ally for them.... Then just scream over them wholesale, uninterested in their viewpoint unless it reinforces your own. If anything, this forum could use less of THAT.
 

Sadsic

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,806
New Jersey
It depends.

When people have trauma or a good reason not to vote then they shouldn't be convinced. It is hard enough for them and trying to convince them will lead to guilt tripping most of the time.

In this case, we are talking about a rapist like biden. Trying to convince people who have trauma to vote for him is in bad taste.

i have pretty extreme trauma myself but i generally dont think the conversation on voting should just end because of that if the person is not recently victimized - it doesnt stop you from being able to think rationally or logically about who to vote for just because of sexual trauma. i am not irrational and unable to think about voting because i am a rape survivor, and i'd like to think other people who have sexual trauma in their history if they have not been recently hurt would be able to think about who to vote for as well

what i am sick of is talking in circles about this shit over and over, not every single tiny niche of the culture wars has to be dissected a thousands times over and im pretty tired of being used as a prop to talk about us presidential politics. either vote or dont vote, dont base it on some generalized idea of what you (or anyone reading this) think sexual assault victims feel about it, stop trying to take someone else's pain and weaponize it for your cause (again not specifying this to you specifically)
 

Cipherr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,439
I've also yet to see the thread titled and asking assault victims to vote a certain way. But we keep seeing this recurring request to let them choose on their own. I don't know where this badgering is happening, but its not happening in the threads I've been visiting. I have yet to see a single forum poster specifically and knowingly address a sexual assault victim on this site and look to force them into voting a certain direction. Why not post examples and speak to those posters specifically if this is supposedly happening in large numbers.
 

Lentic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,836
I've seen assault victims be talked over in all of these thread like they didn't even post at all. It's ridiculous; claim to be looking out for being a better ally for them.... Then just scream over them wholesale, uninterested in their viewpoint unless it reinforces your own. If anything, this forum could use less of THAT.
...the entire argument is that no sexual assault victim should be talked over. Who is taking offense to this argument?
 

rras1994

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,744
This is exactly it. These topics are about the U.S. Election and the candidates full stop... Yeah you frame it otherwise but everyone sees right through it. And there's been a ton of them. There's nothing everyone on this forum hasn't said already on the topics that they wanted to.

The only people this serves now are those who are for whatever reason interested in re-arguing this every day of the week in thread after thread after thread after thread.

Seriously, don't act shocked that people got tired of it.

I've seen assault victims be talked over in all of these thread like they didn't even post at all. It's ridiculous; claim to be looking out for being a better ally for them.... Then just scream over them wholesale, uninterested in their viewpoint unless it reinforces your own. If anything, this forum could use less of THAT.

Edit: I've also yet to see the thread titled and asking assault victims to vote a certain way.
We also should point out that one of the reasons the other thread got shut down was that sexual assault victims felt harasssed and bullied out of that thread and like they couldn't speak in it if they had a different opinion.
 

Lentic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,836
You tell me? If the argument is that none should be talked over.... Who exactly has been arguing the opposite?
...the people trying to talk over others? What you're essentially saying is "stop talking over the people who are trying to talk over others" and it makes no sense.

People should speak for themselves and respect their boundaries. It's not that hard of a concept to grasp, nor is it something that should be up for argument.
 

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
18,829
As a non american, I can only answer the question to the OP.

To be a good "ally" (although I kind of dislike that term because it tends to be used as a badge for people to feel better about themselves) you should help and support victims, but never speak for them, let them speak for themselves, and let them choose, and respect that choice. It's not about you or anyone else, only about them.
 

alexiswrite

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,418
I'm both surprised and unsurprised at some of the replies here. The entire point is that we should respect sexual assault survivors in both their decision to vote or not vote. Period.

The amount of stuff you can suddenly get away with on this forum, almost overnight, is something worth its own discussion.

As far as I can tell, the position of "I don't know, I have some doubts here, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen, this should definitely be investigated more" isn't a bannable offence. The report button is still right there though. Either way, I don't think this thread is for discussing who should be banned.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.