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We are far enough away from it, I think we can safely talk about how terrible Torchwood was.

Slayven

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
92,989
Torchwood is the perfect example of when folks say "Dark", "Gritty", "Grounded", etc what they really mean is everyone is a raging asshole and you just cheer for the recurring ones. Like the POV character cheated on her partner, told him about it, then wiped his memory and her character was suppose to be the moral compass for the rest of the torchwood members. Poor Toshe, she didn't deserve to be in the show

And the show didn't do any favors for Harkness, dude was literally a time cop but how often was the mess of the week because of him bumbling through history?
 
BDS

BDS

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,845
There's a reason Doctor Who entirely ignores the existence of this show outside of a couple RTD-era crossovers.
 
Prophet Five

Prophet Five

Pundeath Knight
Member
Nov 11, 2017
7,689
The Great Dark Beyond
Torchwood was so boring to me. I got halfway through Season 2 and just gave up. I heard great things about the third season but just couldn't make it there.

Which sucks because I liked Captain Jack but I think he's more of a "limited doses" kind of character.
 
water_wendi

water_wendi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,354
Was Gwen supposed to be a moral compass?

i enjoyed the show. It got better as it went on. Havent seen the last season yet though.
 

VAD

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,505
I can give you some of Miracle Day but you're wrong. Owen had the best story line and Capaldi killed it in Children of Earth.
 

Deleted member 7051

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,254
The concept of Torchwood was fantastic - a covert group of agents that dealt with extraterrestrial threats in a decidedly un-family-friendly way, but it never really became what it should have.

Plus we don't really need a Doctor Who Cinematic Universe. Class showed people just aren't that interested if the Doctor isn't in it.
 
ZeroX

ZeroX

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,266
Speed Force
It's better than Doctor Who

Granted I only really care for Barrowman so I only watched the Doctor Who episodes with him in it
 

rras1994

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,742
Children of Earth was worth it and amazing- I didn't watch the rest of the show though
 
APZonerunner

APZonerunner

Features Editor at VG247.com
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
1,724
England
Winny（๑•̀ㅂ•́）و said:
The concept of Torchwood was fantastic - a covert group of agents that dealt with extraterrestrial threats in a decidedly un-family-friendly way, but it never really became what it should have.

Plus we don't really need a Doctor Who Cinematic Universe. Class showed people just aren't that interested if the Doctor isn't in it.
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I mean, Torchwood broke viewership records for BBC, was moved to a big boy channel, was hugely successful and is still spewing books, comics and audio plays despite being quite shit. Torchwood had a significant fanbase, and its effect can't be overstated, as in the Tennant years of Doctor Who it built a larger audience than Doctor Who on BBC America and BBCA then weaponized that for the huge marketing push that saw the Smith/Moffat era of Doctor Who become a proper cult hit in the US.

So there is an audience, it just wasn't there for Class. A lot of Torchwood is shit, but at least it has an attitude and identity and was also very much of its time. Class was just bland and boring, which is why it failed.
 
plagiarize

plagiarize

Eating crackers
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
27,501
Cape Cod, MA
Children of Earth was incredible. Season 1 had definite problems, but I rather enjoyed season 2.

Miracle Day was utter shite.
 
OP
OP
Slayven

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
92,989
APZonerunner said:
I mean, Torchwood broke viewership records for BBC, was moved to a big boy channel, was hugely successful and is still spewing books, comics and audio plays despite being quite shit. Torchwood had a significant fanbase, and its effect can't be overstated, as in the Tennant years of Doctor Who it built a larger audience than Doctor Who on BBC America and BBCA then weaponized that for the huge marketing push that saw the Smith/Moffat era of Doctor Who become a proper cult hit in the US.

So there is an audience, it just wasn't there for Class. A lot of Torchwood is shit, but at least it has an attitude and identity and was also very much of its time. Class was just bland and boring, which is why it failed.
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Teenagers being assholes has a low appear, alien teenagers being dicks even less so. I enjoyed the Sarah Jane Adventures though
 
Silver-Streak

Silver-Streak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,007
Seasons 2 and 3 (Children of Earth) are some of the best TV the BBC has put out still to this day.

Miracle Day had some interesting characters, but HOO BOY.
 
Sheev

Sheev

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,803
Season 2 and Season 3 are both legitimately great. Season 1 tried way too hard to be edgy to separate itself from Doctor Who, and Miracle Day was just...Miracle Day.
 
Pluto

Pluto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,412
I hated Torchwood, it so desperately tried to be "adult" that it became the most juvenile show in the franchise with its sex jokes and all that shit. It was like a 13 year olds vision of grownup entertainment. Violence, tits, swearing, sex, guns ... yeah.

Sure, Children of Earth was good but that's 5 episodes out of 41.

The Sarah Jane Adventures, the actual kids show is better in every way.
 
ChrisP8Three

ChrisP8Three

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,006
Leeds
Aside from Miracle day i generally liked it, but it killed careers didn't it? has the actress who played Gwen been in anything good since?
 
excelsiorlef

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
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Oct 25, 2017
73,315
It took a huge hit for me after Season 2, even though 3 was good. The dynamic got all fucked
 
Siggy-P

Siggy-P

Avenger
Mar 18, 2018
11,865
Winny（๑•̀ㅂ•́）و said:
The concept of Torchwood was fantastic - a covert group of agents that dealt with extraterrestrial threats in a decidedly un-family-friendly way, but it never really became what it should have.

Plus we don't really need a Doctor Who Cinematic Universe. Class showed people just aren't that interested if the Doctor isn't in it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The Sarah Jane show did well on CBBC until the main actress passed on and they had to cut it short.

Class, I didn't even know that was a Doctor Who show until I saw people talk about it here on the Doctor Who threads on Era.
 

rras1994

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,742
ChrisP8Three said:
Aside from Miracle day i generally liked it, but it killed careers didn't it? has the actress who played Gwen been in anything good since?
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She was Merril in Dragon Age 2 and the Welsh guy who's name I can't remember (had a thing with Barrowman's character if I remember correctly) was Solas in Dragon Age Inquisition.
 

CrunchyB

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,104
Slayven said:
Like the POV character cheated on her partner, told him about it, then wiped his memory and her character was suppose to be the moral compass for the rest of the torchwood members.
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I remember seeing that episode and actually getting angry at that bitch move. That was so fucked up and soured me on the rest of the series.

Barrowman was cool but just about everyone else was an unlikable asshole. Some good plots, many dumb plots, crappy special effects, bleh.
 
Daphne

Daphne

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Oct 27, 2017
3,678
Anything wrong with Torchwood was worth it for Children of Earth alone. It's a remarkably stand alone series too, so you can lift it right out into the DW canon.
 

Deleted member 34949

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Nov 30, 2017
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Yeah, lump me in with the "At least we got Children of Earth out of it" crowd.

I kinda liked Owen's arc in Season 2, though
 
Foltzie

Foltzie

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The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
6,776
I appreciate the effort and it had an amazing cast, but yeah, it took its shot and missed more than it hit.

I even liked Miracle Day as a concept*, but it took way too long to get to its point.

*Though in this universe why in the world wouldn't the Doctor have appeared?
 
Lonestar

Lonestar

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Oct 25, 2017
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I still don't understand what the idea of Bill Pullman's role in Miracle Day was about.
 
Jakenbakin

Jakenbakin

Member
Jun 17, 2018
11,783
I tried watching it forever ago and couldn't get into it. I can just jump into Children of Earth?

I first heard of the show back in the day because my mom was a big fan of Miracle Day but it sounds like that isn't worth it
 
Tedmilk

Tedmilk

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Nov 13, 2017
1,904
I remember enjoying some episodes and really fancying Gwen, but the mere thought of it now makes me cringe. I'd imagine it's dated horribly.
 

mclem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,419
Children of Earth was great, and I'm given to understand that Big Finish has worked their usual magic and produced some rather good audios out of what they had to work with. And I think I liked the occasional episode. But yes, much of it was... jeez.

It did at least give us "Here he comes in a ruddy great tractor".



Captain Jack's theme first appears in Countrycide in a scene where, yep, he crashes through a barn door in a ruddy great tractor. What's significant, though, is that Murray Gold composed his theme to match that rhythm
doctor who wiki said:
An extra in the Series 2 disc set shows Murray Gold found his inspiration to compose the theme out of this scene by bashing out notes on his piano keyboard to the tune of, "here he comes in a ruddy-great tractor".
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Gabbo

Gabbo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,563
The second half of season 2 and Children of Earth are fantastic. Hell, Miracle Day was great as an idea until they incinerated the doctor and it split too much into the revenge story against Jack. Season 1 and everything after what i just mentioned about Miracle Day are bad.

Still, the idea behind the show could work, just stay away from Jane Espensen please.
 
apocat

apocat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,035
Children of earth was incredible, though. An absolutely fantastic mini series. I also had a lot of fun with the campiness of season 2, even if it wasn't objectively good in any way.
 
Teiresias

Teiresias

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,203
I don't see how anyone can slack on Torchwood for its visual effects when it was on par with what was being done on Doctor Who of the time and was in line with BBC quality of the time period.

In any event, I never got the impression they were excusing anything these characters did in the show, but to be fair it's been a long while since I watched it.

Even if they were shitty and excused for it, I don't see how that's any worse than the myriad of excuses given the Doctors behavior over the years.
 
StopMakingSense

StopMakingSense

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,708
Children of Earth is like best of Who.

Season 2 has its moments.
Season 1 is boring.

And that's it. That's all of Torchwood that was ever ever made. Anyone who says otherwise should be shot, honestly.
 
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