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Mechaplum

Enlightened
Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,796
JP
The fucking prices of vegetables here are getting obscene. 8 bucks for a head of cauliflower. Onions at 3 bucks a pound (a large onion weighs nearly a pound). Carrots at 3 bucks a pound. Etc. etc. etc. Cooking healthy is expensive. It just is. I'm not even mentioning meat, since the prices of meat, even the cheaper cuts, has jumped nearly double since I've been an adult cooking for myself. Used to be able to buy a big pork shoulder roast for 8 bucks, and now they're always over 20, unless there's a sale.

All the processed garbage is SO MUCH CHEAPER. If I had to feed a God damned family, I couldn't afford to feed them well.

Where are you located? Is that a farmer's market or some upscale supermarket? Insane prices.

Onions and carrots here are less than two dollars per KG(~two pounds), a head of cauliflower about two bucks.

As to the topic, it would be great if the snack and soft drinks industry can be regulated a bit or at least have some civic responsibility. The Japanese/Koreans work 10-12 hour days and rarely if ever cook and their obesity rates are very low.
 

Bluesteel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
245
Man, I was going to go to bed but saw this post and read through all of the posts and had to get up and add a nuance that I think hasn't been brought up yet.

Speaking just on lower-income bracket households:

For families, if you're in lower income brackets, where you are trying to maximize the amount of calories you can get, food choice matters. This is important because the highest calorically heavy foods often lie within processed foods (sweets / carb-heavy foods) etc.

Now, a nuance that I learned from my public health PhD /MD friend: taste buds and the acclimation to certain types of foods might often take multiple (I want to say at least 7, but I'm not too sure anymore) consumption times before they can be accepted. As an example, at first taste of some vegetable, you might find it quite repulsive. After having tasted it a couple of times though, you realize more nuance to the flavor and really like it.

Why is this important? If you're in lower income households, you cannot afford for your child to hate some food and refuse to eat it. The "smart" move is to go for the foods that your family is guaranteed to eat no matter what. Even if you try and make a conscious decision to "eat healthy," the tendency is to revert back to "shitty" foods because ultimately the risk of children/other members of the family rejecting to eat health alternatives is too high. This, of course, leads to a crazy cycle in which you program individuals to consume shitty processed foods, and when they raise children, they operate on the same type of logic with their children.

Self control in this situation/context doesn't apply at all. Maybe everyone else can exercise this "self control" and find avenues to eat healthier and whatever, but this leaves the most vulnerable segments of society at even higher risk.
 
Dec 2, 2017
20,610
I'm really chronic for bad food choices. I do regular exercise, I either run or go for a walk every day. After exercising I'm so hungry I binge on chocolate or crisps or processed meats and thus all the calories I burnt are negated basically.
 

plngsplsh

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,142

bane833

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
4,530
Time and money constraints on lower-middle class and below really puts the personal responsibility angle to bed. You're not just going to bootstrap you're way out of obesity if you work long hours at a job that pays very little
Yeah I think this is one of the major factors. You need time to exercise and prepare your food. Time you do not have if you work 40+ hours a week.

Let's face it, the work life balance most people entertain goes completely against human nature.
 

Sunster

The Fallen
Oct 5, 2018
10,009
Where are you located? Is that a farmer's market or some upscale supermarket? Insane prices.

Onions and carrots here are less than two dollars per KG(~two pounds), a head of cauliflower about two bucks.

As to the topic, it would be great if the snack and soft drinks industry can be regulated a bit or at least have some civic responsibility. The Japanese/Koreans work 10-12 hour days and rarely if ever cook and their obesity rates are very low.
because big sugar has not completely infiltrated their countries as it has in the US. We have sugar in everything, even "healthy" snacks.
 

Theef

Alt Account
Banned
Nov 3, 2017
755
Glad I enjoy cooking, scary to imagine eating processed food on the regular
 

GMM

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,481
We eat processed food packed with tons of sugar and other garbage that is bad for our bodies, losing weight is a question of self control and knowledge on how to eat properly is not something most people posses, most people just don't know any better and aren't willing to change their ways.

Having been obese most of my life and on the brink of being morbidly obese just a year ago, losing 50+ kgs over the last year and learning how to eat has changed my life immensely. Forget the processed garbage, buy vegetables and fresh meat, eat in moderation and enjoy a healthier life, it really doesn't require that much more.

I see people complaining about them being fat and how I'm so insane for losing a ton of weight in a relatively short period of time, they say there is nothing to do about it, but it's not hard to pinpoint when you see the excessive snacking going on on top of already eating enough calories to last you through the day.

Our food culture is completely messed up, we eat poor foods in big portions and quite often, no wonder everyone is getting obese.
 

astroturfing

Member
Nov 1, 2017
6,450
Suomi Finland
I'm sorry but this is pathetic. There is so much information and so ways to maintain a healthy lifestyle that no one should have to rely on the government to protect them from unhealthy food.

you cant expect everyone to be more clever than the armies of food scientists and psychologists tricking us. who has time to dig into the intricacies of nutrition science?

im super tired from working when i go buy food and i just buy whatever, probably things im manipulated to buy. stuff that has neat packaging etc. i just trust that the supermarkets dont try to poison me.
 

TSM

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,821
On a societal level in the long term there need to be government reforms of the food industry from top to bottom. But in the short term I really don't see any hope for individuals other than them finding it within themselves to make the necessary lifestyle changes.

One of my mother's big struggles is that going shopping at the grocery store means running the exit gauntlet. The supermakets funnel you out through the bakery sections, and then all sorts of bad snacks at the register. I actually think grocery delivery might be a better option for a lot of people than actually shopping in person if their goal is to lose weight.
 

oneils

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,084
Ottawa Canada
Turn certain foods into cigarette packs.
No more "health claims"
Nutritional info on the front, not the back.
Include in big bold font how much sugar was added,
Indicate number of calories in the container and not "serving."
Ban advertising
Include pictures of a fatty liver
stop subsidising corn
tax certain foods

We are probably a couple of decades away from this
 

Maximo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,159
I'm really chronic for bad food choices. I do regular exercise, I either run or go for a walk every day. After exercising I'm so hungry I binge on chocolate or crisps or processed meats and thus all the calories I burnt are negated basically.

Im a god damn fiend for chocolate, chips, ect I can't have any in my house or its gone I have no off switch when it comes to snack food.
 

Chairmanchuck (另一个我)

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,082
China
I dont believe for one second that with a 40 hour job you cant cook healthy meals.

This is what I made in around 25 minutes and the Bahn Mi took, I guess, 40-45 minutes:

mmexport1562920316997.jpg


mmexport1562920482952.jpg

Even after an 8 hour day, this 30minutes to 1 hour isnt really that long.

Now ofc its different when you have a 12 hour job, whether you have a partner, long commute etc. but just judging from my friends and family, they rather watch the newest Netflix show after work in bed, play a game, "relax" and its not that much about "not having time or money".
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,483
The fucking prices of vegetables here are getting obscene. 8 bucks for a head of cauliflower. Onions at 3 bucks a pound (a large onion weighs nearly a pound). Carrots at 3 bucks a pound. Etc. etc. etc. Cooking healthy is expensive. It just is. I'm not even mentioning meat, since the prices of meat, even the cheaper cuts, has jumped nearly double since I've been an adult cooking for myself. Used to be able to buy a big pork shoulder roast for 8 bucks, and now they're always over 20, unless there's a sale.

All the processed garbage is SO MUCH CHEAPER. If I had to feed a God damned family, I couldn't afford to feed them well.
An organic cauliflower from Whole Foods in Beverley Hills is $3.49 on their website. They also have carrots for 99c/lb and yellow onions for 79c/lb. Where the hell are you getting vegetables?
 

Deleted member 11822

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,644
So eating a single mint or tootsie roll will destroy the workout?

One absolutely not. Several, or a slice of pizza, or 'sports drink' is not beneficial.
My point in that post was a response to another user pointing out how many people think that time at the gym / exercise == blank check for dietary mayhem, when in fact they are doing long term damage.
If you don't think making junk food available at the gym is a problem, that's cool. I on the other hand find it to be nonsense, and deserving of ridicule.
 

Bjomesphat

Member
Nov 5, 2017
1,819
Why is this important? If you're in lower income households, you cannot afford for your child to hate some food and refuse to eat it. The "smart" move is to go for the foods that your family is guaranteed to eat no matter what. Even if you try and make a conscious decision to "eat healthy," the tendency is to revert back to "shitty" foods because ultimately the risk of children/other members of the family rejecting to eat health alternatives is too high. This, of course, leads to a crazy cycle in which you program individuals to consume shitty processed foods, and when they raise children, they operate on the same type of logic with their children.

That's just parenting.

My twins are 2 years old. From day one that they started eating solids exclusively for their meals, it was eat what we made them or wait until the next meal. Which might mean they go to bed hungry. That lasted for about a day because they learned very quickly to eat what's given to them. Obviously we're not going to keep making what they truly don't enjoy, but at two years old now they have no problem devouring vegetables, rice, beans, fruits, etc.

It's all about instilling healthy habits and knowing when your body tells you to stop. We control when they eat and what they eat, but they have full control over how much. We also don't really restrict foods or shame foods. If we give them cookies for dessert, they can have as much as they want. Show me another kid that finishes half a cookie and gives you the rest because their body is telling them they've had enough. It's all about instilling good habits and teaching kids from a young age to listen to their bodies.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,997
Things can be your responsibility without being your fault.

Yes, they spend billions trying to play our biological and psychological imperatives against us. Yes, (IMO) government should step in to force corporate responsibility. Will that happen, ever, in a million years? Not in America. Business is God here, and the citizen exists only as cattle.

It is unfair. We're being manipulated from birth via advertising and our evolution to eat poorly and, yet, none of the parties making this happen are going to help you, the victim. The only person in your corner is you. It is not your fault. It is your responsibility if you care about your health.

I don't know about more progressive countries, but here in the US? The cavalry ain't coming. The weight of this burden is all on the individual.
 
Oct 30, 2017
8,706
I don't see how we can possibly ignore these multi billion dollar food companies that push to pack the shelves with their crappy food. They put excessive amounts of salt and sugar in our foods with little regard for the health effects for the population.
If the American public is seemingly getting fatter while consuming foods from some companies, at some point we have to look toward them as the problem.

It's clear that finger wagging, promoting bootstrapping, and education have limited effects. We have easy access to understandable nutrition info.
 
You can believe in personal responsibility while also acknowledging the systematic forces that have been implemented to ensure the cycle at play doesn't end. It's also society's responsibility to step back and realize that there has historically been some cynical shit behind where we are right. There's a reason why other countries aren't having the same problems that America is.
 
Nov 14, 2017
4,928
Yes, if people have not figured out by now that Cookie Crisp for breakfast, Mickey Ds for lunch, and Dominoes for dinner is unhealthy then they need more than government assistance.
This is trolling.

The linked article makes explicit the connection between industrial processed food production, marketing, and how that drives unhealthy consumer behaviour. It makes an explicit comparison to smoking - we all know smoking causes cancer, but tobacco companies still manage to recruit new smokers from the young every year through sophisticated propaganda.

You either have to accept the premise that these food products are harmful in a comparable way to tobacco products, and as such should be regulated comparably, or demonstrate why that premise is false. In either case, you should leave the sanctimonious shitposting out.
 

Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
43,064
The fucking prices of vegetables here are getting obscene. 8 bucks for a head of cauliflower. Onions at 3 bucks a pound (a large onion weighs nearly a pound). Carrots at 3 bucks a pound. Etc. etc. etc. Cooking healthy is expensive. It just is. I'm not even mentioning meat, since the prices of meat, even the cheaper cuts, has jumped nearly double since I've been an adult cooking for myself. Used to be able to buy a big pork shoulder roast for 8 bucks, and now they're always over 20, unless there's a sale.

All the processed garbage is SO MUCH CHEAPER. If I had to feed a God damned family, I couldn't afford to feed them well.
Where is this? Vegetables are literally pennies per serving in the US, while processed food or fast food you'l be spending several bucks on a meal at least.
 

Deleted member 8257

Oct 26, 2017
24,586
Man I love unhealthy food. I'm relatively normal at 158lbs, 5'10 height. But I love burgers, fried food, pizza, rice and other trashy food so much. I can devour half a large pizza if I'm by myself.
 

Spork4000

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
8,488
Lot of people pushing individual solutions for societal problems in this thread. Advice can work on a single or a few individuals to reduce obesity, but we need some massive societal shift around the way we see and consume food in this country and a huge part of that starts with the food industry.
 

Ryu_Ken

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,783
I dont believe for one second that with a 40 hour job you cant cook healthy meals.

This is what I made in around 25 minutes and the Bahn Mi took, I guess, 40-45 minutes:



Even after an 8 hour day, this 30minutes to 1 hour isnt really that long.

Now ofc its different when you have a 12 hour job, whether you have a partner, long commute etc. but just judging from my friends and family, they rather watch the newest Netflix show after work in bed, play a game, "relax" and its not that much about "not having time or money".
Hallelujah! Nail on the head.

Sorry not buying this "not enough time" line. Both my wife and I work 40 plus hour weeks, have two kids and still manage to eat reasonably healthy food.

I don't believe there are any conspiracies or other people to blame. It is down to the individual to be proactive, educate themselves in healthy living and get off the couch watching the latest reality TV show or complaining that it's somebody else fault.

Less calories in, more out, it really is that simple.
 
Last edited:
Lot of people pushing individual solutions for societal problems in this thread. Advice can work on a single or a few individuals to reduce obesity, but we need some massive societal shift around the way we see and consume food in this country and a huge part of that starts with the food industry.
As multiple have pointed out in this thread, we've already tried shouting "personal responsibility" at people and obesity has only gotten worse. I can't speak for other countries with this issue but America specifically has a serious problem with systematic issues of all kinds. We will stamp our feet ad keep saying it's the individual that's the problem even as it's clearly not making things any better. You see it with racism, you see it with income inequality, you see it with mass shootings, you see it with everything here.
 

Kinggroin

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,392
Uranus, get it?!? YOUR. ANUS.
I dont believe for one second that with a 40 hour job you cant cook healthy meals.

This is what I made in around 25 minutes and the Bahn Mi took, I guess, 40-45 minutes:



Even after an 8 hour day, this 30minutes to 1 hour isnt really that long.

Now ofc its different when you have a 12 hour job, whether you have a partner, long commute etc. but just judging from my friends and family, they rather watch the newest Netflix show after work in bed, play a game, "relax" and its not that much about "not having time or money".

8 hour days aren't equal.

Tell a construction worker, or field inspector, or something that's physically or mentally exhausting—kind of of work—to do what you do everyday. Yeah, it's almost totally about drive and willpower, I agree.

But many of you act like everyone's thresholds are the same. I completely understand anyone busting their ass, that comes home, orders Chinese food, and sinks into their couch to binge Stranger Things.
 

Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
43,064
I dont believe for one second that with a 40 hour job you cant cook healthy meals.

This is what I made in around 25 minutes and the Bahn Mi took, I guess, 40-45 minutes:



Even after an 8 hour day, this 30minutes to 1 hour isnt really that long.

Now ofc its different when you have a 12 hour job, whether you have a partner, long commute etc. but just judging from my friends and family, they rather watch the newest Netflix show after work in bed, play a game, "relax" and its not that much about "not having time or money".
And even if you don't have time, you could just have a couple carrot sticks and some almonds, or something like that.

Accessibility is simply not a barrier to good health in the US. Desire and will power is all that stops people. People just don't want to admit that because it makes them seem like they're weak. That's not always true though - humans have limited capacity for expending their will, and you have an extremely stressful day at work it's understandable you will not have the energy required to resist eating a burger when you get home.
 

Spork4000

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
8,488
As multiple have pointed out in this thread, we've already tried shouting "personal responsibility" at people and obesity has only gotten worse. I can't speak for other countries with this issue but America specifically has a serious problem with systematic issues of all kinds. We will stamp our feet ad keep saying it's the individual that's the problem even as it's clearly not making things any better. You see it with racism, you see it with income inequality, you see it with mass shootings, you see it with everything here.

Yeah, I know. That's what I was saying.
 

fulltimepanda

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,795
Wow the amount of 'but it's all personal responsibility!' in this thread is pretty astounding. With so little taught about food in school and companies more or less free to advertise and develop food in any way they want ( which would be to sell more), it isn't hard to see that the industry has stacked the odds so heavily against the average joe. Societies around the world are reflecting it with the obesity epidemic and I can picture more weird shit popping up in future thanks to the food industry.

"Generations at risk due to liver damage caused by excess consumption of palm oil" or something like that.
 
Hallelujah! Nail on the head.

Sorry not buying this "not enough time" line. Both my wife and I work 40 plus hour weeks, have two kids and still manage to eat reasonably healthy food.

I don't believe there are any conspiracies or other people to blame. It is down to the individual to be proactive, educate themselves in healthy living and get off the couch watching the latest reality TV show or complaining that it's somebody else fault.

Less calories in, more out, it really is that simple.


I do think it's a matter of energy/willpower and just doing it in the end, but there also has been a concentrated effort to push sugar/selective campaigns on people plus the work-life issues. There's no perfect 'enemy' or solution really. But, even if a nationwide overhaul of everything nutrition and fitness was the answer, it's not going to happen (at least not in our lifetime) so people are just going to have to tackle the problem themselves on an individual level. Basically, people can hope for initiatives and push for better access/health/policies to combat the obesity crisis, but if they really want something done, they'll have to do it themselves. Personal responsibility by necessity, really. I just can't see anything ever happening on a large, meaningful scale.
 

Maxximo

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
636
I wouldn't mind one bit if the EU would regulate the food sold and consumed based on nutritional facts, more or less as we do(with degrees of success...right VW?) for car emissions.

But then I'm pretty sure people would complain they cannot have their mcdonalds and shit so who cares just eat what you want and if you are fat move your ass and find a solution because it's your body and you only get one.
 

hendersonhank

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,390
The food industry makes you want things via advertising and addictive foods, therefore you can't control whether or not you choose to indulge that want? That's the argument here?
 

nel e nel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,134
I absolutely still believe that personal responsibility is a huge part of getting on track. Yes, bad food is addictive. It's always been. Is it within your power to make better choices and stay disciplined. There are more healthy food choices available in a pinch than EVER before.

What good is 'personal responsibility' when it's so easily manipulated to work against itself?
 

LL_Decitrig

User-Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,334
Sunderland
The food industry makes you want things via advertising and addictive foods, therefore you can't control whether or not you choose to indulge that want? That's the argument here?

No. Control is possible, but relying on self control isn't going to solve the epidemic. That would be like responding to a high road crash rate at a dangerous junction by asking everybody to please drive with more care.
 

Sowrong

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
1,442
They should regulate internet and tv hours as well. People will be forced to go outside if they have no electronics to use at home.
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
"Personal responsibility" puts the general public in an arms race against the advertising, marketing and related research industries. Their jobs are to literally circumvent "personal responsibility" or "willpower" at any possible point in order to push a product, and they have much more money and influence than a typical person does.

You'd have to have your head literally in the sand if you think all this:
oecd-overweight-rates-past-future-chart.jpg


Is just lack of "personal responsibility" rather than a systemic overwhelming of human behavior by global industrial forces.

Yes, all those people in all those countries just happened to forget "personal responsibility" starting from the 80s.
 

Fhtagn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,615
The food industry makes you want things via advertising and addictive foods, therefore you can't control whether or not you choose to indulge that want? That's the argument here?

Make this same argument about cigarettes or alcohol and see how ridiculous you sound. The food industry has been intentionally optimizing for addiction, and it's omnipresent, making "good choices" ends up being impossible without perfect planning ahead, as many places to pick up food in a pinch have no good options at all.