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Waypoint: The Walking Sim is a Genuinely New Genre, And No One Fully Understands It
- Thread starter Sibylus
- Start date
I know right?? Either people forget Life is Strange, either they put it in the same basket as Telltale games which are... are they walking simulator?
Love this genre. I think Gone Home is legit one of the best videogames ever. I had such a huge emotional response to that game.
I don't think LiS, Death Stranding or Telltale games are walking simulators
I can understand why Death Stranding isn't one (it's not even debattable) but Why wouldn't Life is Strange be considered walking simulator? Because you have an inventory or choices to do?
To be honest, Death Stranding is way closer to the term "walking simulator" than all these other games are. It actually is a... simulation of the act of walking, with balance and stuff.
All these other games only ask the player to walk by pressing W, which isn't much of a simulation. I really hate the "walking simulator" name, it feels like and ironic way to describe the genre as a boring thing.
All these other games only ask the player to walk by pressing W, which isn't much of a simulation. I really hate the "walking simulator" name, it feels like and ironic way to describe the genre as a boring thing.
Imo walking simulators don't have much gameplay. LiS has puzzles, talking, choices, time travelling...
If this were true it would actually be much closer to a genre than a mechanic.
Mechanics are not genres in a literary or filmic sense, as mechanics do not codify their narrative. Gameplay is a genre of mechanics, but those genres seek to elucidate interaction, and do not typically codify tone, pacing, or theming (as well-known literary and flimic genres do).
If anything, I would actually call mechanics something closer to filmic art direction or cinematography.
Walking simulator means you walk to whatever vapid minimally-interactive exposition dump the 'auteur' wants you to stick around at from 5 to 60 minutes plus. Don't call it a game, call it 'interactive fiction.' You know, like a 'pick-a-path to-adventure' book.
Most game mechanics, such as first-person shooters, are far more engorged with vapidity than most anything produced with walking simulator mechanics. If gameplay is the sole measure of depth, most game mechanics are vapid.
Yeah i guess it's more like an adventure game, same categories as point and click adventure
No they're not. You have games like simulators, strategy on an operational and strategic level, CRPGs, and so on. Hell, I'd even say a 4 player coop like Vermintide or L4D is way better than these pathetic walking simulator because THE STORY IS DIFFERENT EVERY PLAYTHTOUGH. And that story isn't written by some person, it's written by the players. Fuck, lump even Total War series into inclusion Into this as well.
Fuck, I remember having more free choice with Pool of Radiance and Pirates!, two game's back into 1984-1986 or so that came on a few 5.1/4" flopies, than these walking simulators. It's a shame.
The problem I have with walking sims is the lack of player agency, not every narrative is good enough to carry the entire game on its own (hello Everybody's Gone To The Rapture) and it's pretty much turns into slog that you have no desire to ever finish. I think Firewatch is a good attempt at making a game more interactive by giving a player simple objectives to complete and not just wander around beautiful background admiring the view and reading an occasional letter to grasp the story.
It has similar narrative ties to VNs that walking sims do, but not to POC adventures so much. And mechanically it gives player much more agency than 99% AAAs out there, or indeed most walking sims as well.
I think there's a number of people who need to play more walking simulators. What Remains of Edith Finch is undoubtedly within this genre for example, but you actually spend more of the game with diverse mechanics being used as a storytelling device.
The evolution of this genre has been interesting and my ultimate conclusion playing several dozen of these is it's not about having no mechanics or fail states even (some definitely do), it's basically a genre focused on exploration/experience, atmosphere/feeling and its world/narrative. Often gameplay mechanics are simplified or used for narrative purpose first, but some use them in different or more challenging ways. Horror has explored this space more closely than others, but also other emotions have been touched upon.
I think one problem on why it's harder to narrow this genre is because it thrives in the indie space, and that space experiments and tries to push pre-proposed boundaries. As a result, there's been a lot of experiments and evolution in different directions for the genre. And it's been a PC-centric genre first, I know many on Era are console first and I notice a lot of detractors are using games from the early to mid 2010s rather than the more recent outings. Given as a genre, it is primarily aimed at people who like exploring and atmosphere in games first and their potential for stories/experiences than for those who like them more for challenge or mechanical engagement.
The evolution of this genre has been interesting and my ultimate conclusion playing several dozen of these is it's not about having no mechanics or fail states even (some definitely do), it's basically a genre focused on exploration/experience, atmosphere/feeling and its world/narrative. Often gameplay mechanics are simplified or used for narrative purpose first, but some use them in different or more challenging ways. Horror has explored this space more closely than others, but also other emotions have been touched upon.
I think one problem on why it's harder to narrow this genre is because it thrives in the indie space, and that space experiments and tries to push pre-proposed boundaries. As a result, there's been a lot of experiments and evolution in different directions for the genre. And it's been a PC-centric genre first, I know many on Era are console first and I notice a lot of detractors are using games from the early to mid 2010s rather than the more recent outings. Given as a genre, it is primarily aimed at people who like exploring and atmosphere in games first and their potential for stories/experiences than for those who like them more for challenge or mechanical engagement.
So games like simulators - so walking simulators aren't simulations? Choice is itself not a terribly deep mechanic on its own. If we can agree that cinematography is a valid art form, then a walking simulator is no less deep, given it is highly guided by a creator carefully placing objects in space for purposes of inspection or introspection. A "different story every time" is nothing without meaning; to say, "well everyone shot everyone differently this time" is an extremely vapid response to a question of depth. There's no depth to such a story, and little meaning without those within it to establish a meaningful context (and I sincerely doubt most are having an introspective moment while dying in a random co-op playing Diablo III).
To say a game mechanic is deep is likely to mistake the content for the context.
You're assuming you win in player vs horde games. Losing is even more fun than winning, you can in most cases pinpoint what caused you to lose, it enjoyable and you can still improve with what you learned and forming ore in tune dynaimc. And even with that improvement, you're not guaranteed a win, but you are another story.
Walking Sims are press Up to listen to some shit before moving up through some light interaction until you trigger another 'listening to some vapid forgettable shit for another repeat,' ad nauseam. It's not a game.
Again, I'm an old asshole that grew up with games like Space Invades, PAC Man, Mario Bro's, Civ, Masters of Magic, the Microprose Sim line, and SSI. For me those were games with reprocusions to your action and a fail state based on not coddling your bad decisions. These are not.
Also, Sekiro totally deserves GoTY. Fuck easy mode.
If Death Stranding falls into the walking simulator category, it's not that I don't understand it, it's just fucking boring and doesn't deserve my time. Haven't played Gone Home or any of the others yet though, but enough with the "you don't understand it" bs
That's the main game mechanic tho, at least with barely interactive stuff like Dear Esther and Everybody's Gone To The Rapture there's not really much else to do. There's little to no item management and puzzles for them to be comparable to classic P&Cs and the narrative design is drastically different from VNs or Interactive Movies.
I don't think that the term is insulting on its own, it's just better suited to describe the games than simply put them under the umbrella "adventure game".
So tell them to stop making 'walking simulators?' Tell them to make 'narrative driven ambulatory locomotive experiences instead?'
Anyone who calls Death Stranding a walking sim hasn't played it or has given up on it way too soon. It goes well into the horror genre and action genre way too many times in the game to consider it a walking sim. Lazy asses
Death Stranding does not belong on that list, lol.
Yea its a game where you walk a lot, but if thats the criteria then Doom should be on there as well
Yea its a game where you walk a lot, but if thats the criteria then Doom should be on there as well
I'm actually not assuming you win.
I see what you're concerned with now isn't the genre itself or the mechanics but rather purity testing.
Depending on how you define a game, whether it's win or lose states, varying levels of complexity, some things will invariably fall one way or the other. But given what is or isn't a game is more a societal conflation than a (relatively) strict adherence to rules, it's not really for either of us to decide that. Society's already given its answer, and while it's fine if you're uninterested, your own distaste doesn't really matter.
Should anyone give a shit about your purity tests and how old school you are?
You are like a linguist whining that people are using a word wrong, not realizing the language has left them behind.
What?? Rapture was one of my favorite walking sim in recent year. Only fault i give is the slow walk but the world, music, character and story was pretty great
Different strokes and all. It's one of the most boring narrative-driven games I've ever played.
Death Stranding is a "Walking Simulator" in the same way that Microsoft Flight Simulator is a, well, Flight Simulator.
The term "Walking Simulator" definitely wasn't coined to describe actual walking simulation though... instead, it's a derogatory reductive description of adventure games with minimal/no gameplay systems besides basic movement, which definitely doesn't describe Death Stranding. So yes DS is walking simulator, but no it doesn't really fit into the "Walking Simulator" genre.
In all honesty, we need a better and less derogatory name for the walking sim genre. But I would disagree with Waypoint's take here that it's a totally new genre or that it's not well understood, it's just an adventure game subgenre. Design Doc's recent video on modern adventure games touches on them.
The term "Walking Simulator" definitely wasn't coined to describe actual walking simulation though... instead, it's a derogatory reductive description of adventure games with minimal/no gameplay systems besides basic movement, which definitely doesn't describe Death Stranding. So yes DS is walking simulator, but no it doesn't really fit into the "Walking Simulator" genre.
In all honesty, we need a better and less derogatory name for the walking sim genre. But I would disagree with Waypoint's take here that it's a totally new genre or that it's not well understood, it's just an adventure game subgenre. Design Doc's recent video on modern adventure games touches on them.
Considering the genre name is still be using to criticize games that are more than just walking, because they look boring, I'd say it's still a derogatory genre name on it's own.
"Art gallery simulator" would be a more apt description of the gameplay of these games than "walking simulator", though it would still miss the point somewhat, since storytelling is the actual primary focus of most of these games.
I think the problem mostly lies in that mechanics aren't genres at all and genres have a contextual meaning that doesn't fit the contextual meaning of mechanics. A "walking simulator" is a mechanic, and while mechanics are a subgenre of games, they don't define games well given a game like Limbo is much closer to Five Nights at Freddy's than a game like Super Metroid.
What we need is not a new name, but a different way of thinking about games that doesn't cordon off games by mechanics alone.
I'm pretty sure you are 100% alone with this opinion. Impressive.
I think that's the case. While I would classify both LiS and TWD as narrative heavy third person adventure games, LiS1 and Before the Storm have strands of DNA from the Gone Home style of walking sim. I would say that is most evident when you are exploring homes and other lived in environments.
Of course I think first person adventure game is a more apt descriptor than walking sim.
"Walking simulator" is by far my favourite genre this last decade. For me, it implies a game with no stress that is more about exploration, reading the environment and understanding the world. Limited or no action.
I think this line of thinking might actually be useful more generally. I think using genre terms to create sub-genres might actually be a useful blend with mechanics. So Limbo might be a "Horror platformer" while Super Metroid would be a "Sci-fi platformer".
You should play Dear Esher.
Even Gone Home i thought was highly overrated
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"Walking sim" has become so genericized and taken out of the hands of the alt-right shitters that loved using it that I don't sweat its usage anymore. It survives in a non-derogatory context for many, and that's enough for me to find more experiences dripping in atmosphere and voice to enjoy.
Good points made on the cross-pollination into games like Life is Strange and Amnesia: a Machine for Pigs. Love the mentions of older titles such as LSD that figure also, keep 'em coming!
Good points made on the cross-pollination into games like Life is Strange and Amnesia: a Machine for Pigs. Love the mentions of older titles such as LSD that figure also, keep 'em coming!
Virginia is one I have on my To Play list, alongside the Beginner's Guide and A Short Hike. Looking forward to it!
LSD is so damn good. My friend got addicted to it for a bit, kept telling me he was going to, "figure it out".
Good times.
I did. Isn't Dear Esther made by the same studio? The only game of theirs I liked was a sequel to Amnesia.
Gone Home is much more involved imo, and the atmosphere is (in)appropriately creepy, which is a plus in my book.
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Dear Esther, Machine for Pigs, and Everybody's Gone to the Rapture were the Chinese Room (Brits).
Gone Home and Tacoma was Fullbright (Americanos), with a lot of ex-Irrational devs who worked on Bioshock 2 and the Minerva's Den story DLC.
I know. I didn't say it was Chinese Room who developed Gone Home, just compared it to Everybody's Gone To The Rapture and why I prefer Gone Home to it.
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Fair enough, misunderstood. I played and really dug Dear Esther, but haven't checked out EGTTR. It came to PC eventually, didn't it?
It's on Steam, yeah. They haven't discounted it for ages though and the base price is pretty high (2.5 Firewatches).