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Waypoint+ |OT| "Fuck Capitalism, Go Home"
- Thread starter Mezentine
- Start date
I always say people gotta stop letting shitty people/alt righters influence how we talk and feel about media. It happens often on this forum lol.
The Star Wars movies, Pokemon, and now TLOU2. It doesn't matter to some people what reason you have for disliking something they'll combat your opinion like it was a personal attack lol. Makes the discourse not even worth partaking in.
It's also why review threads are insufferable.
The Star Wars movies, Pokemon, and now TLOU2. It doesn't matter to some people what reason you have for disliking something they'll combat your opinion like it was a personal attack lol. Makes the discourse not even worth partaking in.
It's also why review threads are insufferable.
iirc one of the main people that started this website was a militant Hillary stan At the old place.
you'll notice how few asian members actively post here any more as well. we were supposed to get our own thread where we could be assured the site would do better by us by staff before things backslide like a month later but apparently we've been backburnered
kind of a theme where there will be a big to do about big change that just kind of goes nowhere because it's too hard and also requires too much self-interrogation
very eh, on-theme for the general political axis of the site
Yeah, it's all just used as a convenient way to silence discussion. There were multiple people in that thread "concerned" that the article was going to be used to further anti-Semitic attacks against Druckmann, as if GGers are big readers of Waypoint. They don't care about thoughtful articles written from the perceptive of a Jewish man who lived in Israel they just want to tweet horrible slurs at people who they see as enemies in their bullshit culture war.
The implication from people in that thread (including a mod it's worth noting) that the article was just posted because Waypoint have some axe to grind with ND and it will lead to more attacks on Druckmann and his team is really really gross.
Nora doesn't want her Twitter shared here but she just told me to tell y'all that she got permabanned for calling out Terra's ban in the contact us form. She's encouraging others to do the same albeit gently enough so this thread isn't just a ghost town.
Without realising the irony of people using similar tactics to stop people criticising atrocities enacted by the Isreali state.
Hello? The fact that you can be retaliated against for that is fucked???????
Nora wasn't banned for contesting a ban. Nora was already in our review process for a previous violation of our posting guidelines, and the further abusive and inflammatory emails she has sent in resulted in a permanent ban of her account. This was a continued violation of our ToS, and is something we clearly lay out in our General Guide. We are volunteers, we're here, we read your concerns, and are happy to work towards solutions, and yes we can be slow moving, but we are not required to take abuse from our member base.
Hi, I genuinely appreciate the reply. I am curious though as to why Terra's comment earned two weeks whereas a post hoping for Waypoint staffs' throats being torn out only got a warning. Is venting frustration about awful comments like that somehow a worse offense than the posts themselves? Ditto for Nora criticizing people's hypocrisy in praising The Lincoln Project.
I'm a moderator on another, albeit significantly smaller forum myself and I understand the ridiculous bullshit you have to sift through sometimes but I can't help but think this is entirely punishing the wrong people in favor of other comments that far far more minimize people's lived experiences (like some of the dismissive ones in the Last of Us Isreal/Palestine thread).
User Banned (Permanent): Transphobic trolling, long history of hostility
Sorry to say, but Nora's ban was wrong in the first place. Not because that post shouldn't be actionable, but because that kind of post has never been actioned before and hasn't been actioned since, accusing everyone you disagree with of being privileged cishet male has always been standard on this forum
What does "working towards solutions" entail and what does it mean exactly?
Working towards solutions implies some sort of discussion right? I'm sure you realize that without any sort open discussion nobody will even know that you are trying to improve things or notice those steps taken by the moderation team so it would be in your own favor to have some sort of public discourse.
We know that Era is not very keen on threads about moderation and I genuinely understand the reason for that, but without any sort of way to talk about things like this nobody is going to be happy.
I'm also curious about this. My understanding was that calling for the death of anyone, not to mention someone simply doing their job as a critic, was frowned upon quite harshly.
I'd also like to have some clarification on this, especially the weird death threat being worthy of only a warning, as well as why Terra's ban was double the length of Lord Fanny's ban despite both being banned for the same reasons according to the ban message. Also, is there any discussion happening regarding how toxic TLoU2 threads have been in terms of the way valid criticism is being completely shut out in such a hostile manner, especially given that some moderators have been involved in this? The Woods
If you or a Nora have a script, I'm happy to use the contact form.
This has been my problem here. I don't understand how that was banworthy. If it was, there should've been many more for similar posts.
There was no personal attack on any user, not even any insults. It was basically a super mild jab towards liberals.
And, you know, at some point Era needs to come out with some guidelines for stuff like that.
Calling Repulicans shitheads is fine (which, don't get me wrong I think is) but saying " all the liberals on era: haha epic trump ownage go brrrrrrrr who cares they wanna legislate your rights away" is ban-worthy? Where is the cut-off here? At what point can you not be slightly critical anymore?
Because again: No insults, not even targeted at a specific member, nothing.
Like, if I post "liberals suck" that should actually get me banned because it is way more hostile than that post.
Something for Patrick Klepek if he ever continues exploring Dreams content on Mario Maker Morning streams:
avengers pls read the room. the tonal whiplash from even just the thumbnail is enough to kill
i know it has to be incredibly difficult to moderate a large forum while also having mods that represent every minority group that has their own diverse set of interests. they're probably not getting paid (i suppose all the ad revenue is going to server costs?) and the amount of people who are willing to put up with this forums' bullshit is going to be minuscule
but it's also really frustrating to see minority voices (black and trans from what i've noticed of late) getting shouted down and then banned for getting 'hostile' when they're sick of adhering to ~decorum on issues that affect their lives the few times i've peeked outside of community threads, which is the main reason i stick to them.
i just feel like its going to come to a point where the site team has to decide if they care more about having a big forum or addressing these communities concerns to prevent the site from continuously bleeding away minority users, because it's looking like those two are incongruent
but it's also really frustrating to see minority voices (black and trans from what i've noticed of late) getting shouted down and then banned for getting 'hostile' when they're sick of adhering to ~decorum on issues that affect their lives the few times i've peeked outside of community threads, which is the main reason i stick to them.
i just feel like its going to come to a point where the site team has to decide if they care more about having a big forum or addressing these communities concerns to prevent the site from continuously bleeding away minority users, because it's looking like those two are incongruent
Like Sabas said, I know the mod team doesn't give a shit about me as an Asian American. It's just like being in real life.
I think they're the best tool they have and I'd like to see bans double or triple, tbh. Which is why I'd be a terrible mod. But there needs to be significantly more thinking before posting, especially from these accounts running in just to be like "eH it's quite a reach man...." fuck that, who needs to read that? what does it contribute other than being the forum performative version of sticking fucking naughty dog stickers all over your car?
Not to mention Patrick is also a member here. Even Twitter would ban for that.
There must have been a secret report mob that got Terra, because that post is hardly aggressive nor inflammatory. Unless being generally critical of vibes is now a huge offense.
I don't think it requires a mob when the mods have literally joined in, or at least supported, the over the top accusations against Vice Games. For some reason there are sides to be chosen on this issue instead of just maintaining a reasonably civil discourse. Or at least it certainly seems that way when Terra gets 2 weeks for very general complaints about the way these threads are allowed to get toxic, but actual directly wishing that Vice Games would be killed (by zombies, just a fun in-game joke haha) gets a warning.
Gies is the guy who insisted Sim City couldn't be updated to run offline. And then it was. He's the least credible games critic around.
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Amongst other things, they don't know what age group GenX is.
I don't see how not knowing some technical detail about Sim City has anything to do with credibility as a games critic. Is it the job of a critic, where their credibility is at stake, to accurately recite the features on the back of the box for you or something? Ebert didn't know the distribution nuances or technical aspects of every film he reviewed, and he has like GOAT critic credibility.
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I'm in class. I'm not going to always be available, have a little patience please.
First off, the post that received a warning, we agree, it should have been a ban. That has been corrected. Just to clarify though, the post was not a death threat against journalists, but a joke in bad taste about the podcast ending: still, it was overly graphic and vitriolic, and was deserving of a ban.
As for Nora, she specifically lumped all liberals into one corner and all minorities into another, speaking for and over a number of marginalized posters who disagreed with her. It was also an inflammatory statement from a poster with a history of inflammatory statements. We work to give room to posters from marginalized backgrounds so they have space to express concerns and share their own experiences, but all posters are subject to the same rules. If you make inflammatory statements that violate our posting guidelines, you can still receive a ban for them, especially if you're aiming yourself at other people from marginalized groups. If you then send in contact us messages further heaping on inflammatory abuse, that ban gets extended, if not made permanent. The fact that one of those emails even had her using a fake name and email pretty clearly demonstrates that Nora is aware that her behaviour was unacceptable and decided to go through with it anyway.
For Terra, we're taking another look at the ban. Typical procedure is to extend ban durations for people whose accounts are still in the junior phase, thus the 2 week duration. Their accusation that those members from marginalized groups who took offence to things the Waypoint crew said are being "GG adjacent" was inflammatory enough to earn them a 1 week ban normally, and a 2 week ban due to their account status. But we are of course open to an appeal.
I haven't really posted in here much (or at all, similar with the GiantBomb community although I devour most of the content for the two websites) but yesterday was the first time I posted in a TLOU2 thread on this board. I haven't played the game, but I have listened to multiple spoiler podcasts (including all of Waypoints) and watched clips of the game and was interested in seeing what other era members thought of Vice's article.
That was a complete mistake.
Seeing how more critical videogame coverage is received here makes me want to bail from at least part of this website, if not the entire thing. There is such a radical difference between the community and etc sections vs the main gaming sub-board that it feels like different teams run moderation and thats a bummer because there seems to be a lot of garbage posted on the gaming side that somehow gets past a ban.
Anyways, I hope things are cleaned up on the gaming side. It would be a bummer to have to walk away from the website, especially one I've invested time (and now money monthly) into. But I guess the majority of us have done that with the last place already, so it wouldn't be the first time.
That was a complete mistake.
Seeing how more critical videogame coverage is received here makes me want to bail from at least part of this website, if not the entire thing. There is such a radical difference between the community and etc sections vs the main gaming sub-board that it feels like different teams run moderation and thats a bummer because there seems to be a lot of garbage posted on the gaming side that somehow gets past a ban.
Anyways, I hope things are cleaned up on the gaming side. It would be a bummer to have to walk away from the website, especially one I've invested time (and now money monthly) into. But I guess the majority of us have done that with the last place already, so it wouldn't be the first time.
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I don't agree at all that the GG comparisons were inflammatory, in fact I think it's an accurate criticism of a lot of users here when their product of the month gets criticized. The same brand tribalism and perceived criticism of the thing they like as a personal attack still absolutely exist here. Some of the attacks on Gita Jackson and Maddy Myers here who have dared be critical of the game and Naughty Dog's culture are absolutely comparable. Just complete weaponization of identity even pulling the same "you're the real racist" card for merely drawing parallels between enemies in the game and stereotypes of Palestinians. It's really why I barely even wade into arguments on the general board aside from posting in more trivial/less political threads altogether.
I really can't vouch for what Nora personally sent you either but I think the initial ban she received was wrong because her critique of liberalism absolutely comes from a wider systemic critique and how centrists mostly align themselves more with conservatives than actual progressive stances. Having read the post several times too I really can't find the area where she lumps all minorities together, she is clearly speaking of the responses in that very thread. And you know what? She was proved right too.
The site is geared toward maintaining a bullshit aura of civility that largely manifests in penalizing frustrated minorities that see what could be safe space beaten into submission in order to appeal to the delicate sensibilities of the cishet white liberal. The sad fucking thing being that this place is still head and shoulders above basically any other active forum I can think of.
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Yeah, uh, what the fuck? where is the transphobia? or even hostility? that's a pretty calm criticism of the level of discourse on the forum.
ETA: I would also be very interested to know how "history of hostility" is measured. is it people who have had a number of posts reported, or a number of warnings, or bans, or do mods look through post history? Like, how does a poster know they have an unacceptable history of hostility.
ETA: I would also be very interested to know how "history of hostility" is measured. is it people who have had a number of posts reported, or a number of warnings, or bans, or do mods look through post history? Like, how does a poster know they have an unacceptable history of hostility.
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Sorry to jump into your community thread folks, but Rael's ban was brought to my attention and I just had to say something. I've been on the receiving end of this phenomenon, and I've never hit the report button for it even once because even if I disagree, I deal with it because that's how discourse tends to run. But with the recent moderation, I don't understand why it's okay for people to accuse me and other posters of not caring for the marginalized (and in some cases outright doubting my minority status), but not for the certain marginalized folks to not be absolutely inclusive when drawing from their personal experiences.
And the transphobic trolling justification for Rael's ban is an absolute farce - especially since the moderators let that one other poster in the Lincoln Project thread get away with not even an apology for acting dismissive towards a trans poster, who was afterwards banned for being hostile. Trans people are what, less than 1% of the population? That you've banned so many (at least the ones brave enough to declare themselves in a watched forum) in recent weeks should speak volumes to you.
100% agreed. I obviously can't speak to whatever Nora emailed but neither of those posts where banworthy in the first place so.....
The trans population is very small but somehow they all keep getting banned from era, which uh is surely something the moderators here should be thoroughly looking at. There was a big conversation around this months ago but it doesn't seem like anything has changed, at least not publicly.
"Inflammatory" is a meaningless word in how broadly the mod teams uses it. What a joke to claim it's just procedural when it all rides on such a subjective and broadly applied term.
It's inflammatory to ban trans people and trans allies for trying to defend trans people.
And I can't even begin to put into words my feelings about that Rael "transphobic" ban, other than it's very insulting to use that term like that.
It's inflammatory to ban trans people and trans allies for trying to defend trans people.
And I can't even begin to put into words my feelings about that Rael "transphobic" ban, other than it's very insulting to use that term like that.
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