This is the problem with liberals valuing civility above all else. Fucked up insinuations about the people over at Waypoint because there's a defense force to the new major video game that sincerely values products over people? This is fine. Somebody venting their frustrations about that shitty behavior in a somewhat spicy way? Can't stand for that!
you'll notice how few asian members actively post here any more as well. we were supposed to get our own thread where we could be assured the site would do better by us by staff before things backslide like a month later but apparently we've been backburneredIt's especially frustrating because I feel like the "this place is awfully frustrating for minorities and you keep over moderating people expressing this frustration" was a theme that lead directly to the staff/mods meeting with Trans ERA at the end of last year, so I imagine it was also a point of discussion when they met with the Black community and yet here we are 8 months later and things don't feel any better.
I always say people gotta stop letting shitty people/alt righters influence how we talk and feel about media. It happens often on this forum lol.
The Star Wars movies, Pokemon, and now TLOU2. It doesn't matter to some people what reason you have for disliking something they'll combat your opinion like it was a personal attack lol. Makes the discourse not even worth partaking in.
It's also why review threads are insufferable.
Nora doesn't want her Twitter shared here but she just told me to tell y'all that she got permabanned for calling out Terra's ban in the contact us form. She's encouraging others to do the same albeit gently enough so this thread isn't just a ghost town.
Nora wasn't banned for contesting a ban. Nora was already in our review process for a previous violation of our posting guidelines, and the further abusive and inflammatory emails she has sent in resulted in a permanent ban of her account. This was a continued violation of our ToS, and is something we clearly lay out in our General Guide. We are volunteers, we're here, we read your concerns, and are happy to work towards solutions, and yes we can be slow moving, but we are not required to take abuse from our member base.Nora doesn't want her Twitter shared here but she just told me to tell y'all that she got permabanned for calling out Terra's ban in the contact us form. She's encouraging others to do the same albeit gently enough so this thread isn't just a ghost town.
Nora wasn't banned for contesting a ban. Nora was already in our review process for a previous violation of our posting guidelines, and the further abusive and inflammatory emails she has sent in resulted in a permanent ban of her account. This was a continued violation of our ToS, and is something we clearly lay out in our General Guide. We are volunteers, we're here, we read your concerns, and are happy to work towards solutions, and yes we can be slow moving, but we are not required to take abuse from our member base.
Hi, I genuinely appreciate the reply. I am curious though as to why Terra's comment earned two weeks whereas a post hoping for Waypoint staffs' throats being torn out only got a warning. Is venting frustration about awful comments like that somehow a worse offense than the posts themselves? Ditto for Nora criticizing people's hypocrisy in praising The Lincoln Project.Nora wasn't banned for contesting a ban. Nora was already in our review process for a previous violation of our posting guidelines, and the further abusive and inflammatory emails she has sent in resulted in a permanent ban of her account. This was a continued violation of our ToS, and is something we clearly lay out in our General Guide. We are volunteers, we're here, we read your concerns, and are happy to work towards solutions, and yes we can be slow moving, but we are not required to take abuse from our member base.
Sorry to say, but Nora's ban was wrong in the first place. Not because that post shouldn't be actionable, but because that kind of post has never been actioned before and hasn't been actioned since, accusing everyone you disagree with of being privileged cishet male has always been standard on this forumNora wasn't banned for contesting a ban. Nora was already in our review process for a previous violation of our posting guidelines, and the further abusive and inflammatory emails she has sent in resulted in a permanent ban of her account. This was a continued violation of our ToS, and is something we clearly lay out in our General Guide. We are volunteers, we're here, we read your concerns, and are happy to work towards solutions, and yes we can be slow moving, but we are not required to take abuse from our member base.
Nora wasn't banned for contesting a ban. Nora was already in our review process for a previous violation of our posting guidelines, and the further abusive and inflammatory emails she has sent in resulted in a permanent ban of her account. This was a continued violation of our ToS, and is something we clearly lay out in our General Guide. We are volunteers, we're here, we read your concerns, and are happy to work towards solutions, and yes we can be slow moving, but we are not required to take abuse from our member base.
Hi, I genuinely appreciate the reply. I am curious though as to why Terra's comment earned two weeks whereas a post hoping for Waypoint staffs' throats being torn out only got a warning. Is venting frustration about awful comments like that somehow a worse offense than the posts themselves?
I'd also like to have some clarification on this, especially the weird death threat being worthy of only a warning, as well as why Terra's ban was double the length of Lord Fanny's ban despite both being banned for the same reasons according to the ban message. Also, is there any discussion happening regarding how toxic TLoU2 threads have been in terms of the way valid criticism is being completely shut out in such a hostile manner, especially given that some moderators have been involved in this? The WoodsHi, I genuinely appreciate the reply. I am curious though as to why Terra's comment earned two weeks whereas a post hoping for Waypoint staffs' throats being torn out only got a warning. Is venting frustration about awful comments like that somehow a worse offense than the posts themselves? Ditto for Nora criticizing people's hypocrisy in praising The Lincoln Project.
I'm a moderator on another, albeit significantly smaller forum myself and I understand the ridiculous bullshit you have to sift through sometimes but I can't help but think this is entirely punishing the wrong people in favor of other comments that far far more minimize people's lived experiences (like some of the dismissive ones in the Last of Us Isreal/Palestine thread).
If you or a Nora have a script, I'm happy to use the contact form.Nora doesn't want her Twitter shared here but she just told me to tell y'all that she got permabanned for calling out Terra's ban in the contact us form. She's encouraging others to do the same albeit gently enough so this thread isn't just a ghost town.
This has been my problem here. I don't understand how that was banworthy. If it was, there should've been many more for similar posts.Sorry to say, but Nora's ban was wrong in the first place. Not because that post shouldn't be actionable, but because that kind of post has never been actioned before and hasn't been actioned since, accusing everyone you disagree with of being privileged cishet male has always been standard on this forum
There was no personal attack on any user, not even any insults. It was basically a super mild jab towards liberals.This has been my problem here. I don't understand how that was banworthy. If it was, there should've been many more for similar posts.
Like Sabas said, I know the mod team doesn't give a shit about me as an Asian American. It's just like being in real life.i know it has to be incredibly difficult to moderate a large forum while also having mods that represent every minority group that has their own diverse set of interests. they're probably not getting paid (i suppose all the ad revenue is going to server costs?) and the amount of people who are willing to put up with this forums' bullshit is going to be minuscule
but it's also really frustrating to see minority voices (black and trans from what i've noticed of late) getting shouted down and then banned for getting 'hostile' when they're sick of adhering to ~decorum on issues that affect their lives the few times i've peeked outside of community threads, which is the main reason i stick to them.
i just feel like its going to come to a point where the site team has to decide if they care more about having a big forum or addressing these communities concerns to prevent the site from continuously bleeding away minority users, because it's looking like those two are incongruent
I think they're the best tool they have and I'd like to see bans double or triple, tbh. Which is why I'd be a terrible mod. But there needs to be significantly more thinking before posting, especially from these accounts running in just to be like "eH it's quite a reach man...." fuck that, who needs to read that? what does it contribute other than being the forum performative version of sticking fucking naughty dog stickers all over your car?Like, i dunno, i don't think not banning enough is the problem of the moderation here.
Not to mention Patrick is also a member here. Even Twitter would ban for that.I'm also curious about this. My understanding was that calling for the death of anyone, not to mention someone simply doing their job as a critic, was frowned upon quite harshly.
There must have been a secret report mob that got Terra, because that post is hardly aggressive nor inflammatory. Unless being generally critical of vibes is now a huge offense.
Yeah this lol. Gies seemed like a total Xbox fanboy at Polygon and always came across as too overly-serious and having an air of massive arrogance around him.
What a shitty tweet from NYC. I guess their plan for this pandemic is lots of bootstraps.
fucking nutballs.I mean we got one dude coming over from the tlou2 threads saying "you think you're having a secret conversation in here?"
you know, normal things to post on a forum.
I don't see how not knowing some technical detail about Sim City has anything to do with credibility as a games critic. Is it the job of a critic, where their credibility is at stake, to accurately recite the features on the back of the box for you or something? Ebert didn't know the distribution nuances or technical aspects of every film he reviewed, and he has like GOAT critic credibility.Gies is the guy who insisted Sim City couldn't be updated to run offline. And then it was. He's the least credible games critic around.
I'm in class. I'm not going to always be available, have a little patience please.
Hi, I genuinely appreciate the reply. I am curious though as to why Terra's comment earned two weeks whereas a post hoping for Waypoint staffs' throats being torn out only got a warning. Is venting frustration about awful comments like that somehow a worse offense than the posts themselves? Ditto for Nora criticizing people's hypocrisy in praising The Lincoln Project.
I'm a moderator on another, albeit significantly smaller forum myself and I understand the ridiculous bullshit you have to sift through sometimes but I can't help but think this is entirely punishing the wrong people in favor of other comments that far far more minimize people's lived experiences (like some of the dismissive ones in the Last of Us Isreal/Palestine thread).
I don't agree at all that the GG comparisons were inflammatory, in fact I think it's an accurate criticism of a lot of users here when their product of the month gets criticized. The same brand tribalism and perceived criticism of the thing they like as a personal attack still absolutely exist here. Some of the attacks on Gita Jackson and Maddy Myers here who have dared be critical of the game and Naughty Dog's culture are absolutely comparable. Just complete weaponization of identity even pulling the same "you're the real racist" card for merely drawing parallels between enemies in the game and stereotypes of Palestinians. It's really why I barely even wade into arguments on the general board aside from posting in more trivial/less political threads altogether.First off, the post that received a warning, we agree, it should have been a ban. That has been corrected. Just to clarify though, the post was not a death threat against journalists, but a joke in bad taste about the podcast ending: still, it was overly graphic and vitriolic, and was deserving of a ban.
As for Nora, she specifically lumped all liberals into one corner and all minorities into another, speaking for and over a number of marginalized posters who disagreed with her. It was also an inflammatory statement from a poster with a history of inflammatory statements. We work to give room to posters from marginalized backgrounds so they have space to express concerns and share their own experiences, but all posters are subject to the same rules. If you make inflammatory statements that violate our posting guidelines, you can still receive a ban for them, especially if you're aiming yourself at other people from marginalized groups. If you then send in contact us messages further heaping on inflammatory abuse, that ban gets extended, if not made permanent. The fact that one of those emails even had her using a fake name and email pretty clearly demonstrates that Nora is aware that her behaviour was unacceptable and decided to go through with it anyway.
For Terra, we're taking another look at the ban. Typical procedure is to extend ban durations for people whose accounts are still in the junior phase, thus the 2 week duration. Their accusation that those members from marginalized groups who took offence to things the Waypoint crew said are being "GG adjacent" was inflammatory enough to earn them a 1 week ban normally, and a 2 week ban due to their account status. But we are of course open to an appeal.
Sorry to say, but Nora's ban was wrong in the first place. Not because that post shouldn't be actionable, but because that kind of post has never been actioned before and hasn't been actioned since, accusing everyone you disagree with of being privileged cishet male has always been standard on this forum
Sorry to say, but Nora's ban was wrong in the first place. Not because that post shouldn't be actionable, but because that kind of post has never been actioned before and hasn't been actioned since, accusing everyone you disagree with of being privileged cishet male has always been standard on this forum
100% agreed. I obviously can't speak to whatever Nora emailed but neither of those posts where banworthy in the first place so.....I don't agree at all that the GG comparisons were inflammatory, in fact I think it's an accurate criticism of a lot of users here when their product of the month gets criticized. The same brand tribalism and perceived criticism of the thing they like as a personal attack still absolutely exist here. Some of the attacks on Gita Jackson and Maddy Myers here who have dared be critical of the game and Naughty Dog's culture are absolutely comparable. Just complete weaponization of identity even pulling the same "you're the real racist" card for merely drawing parallels between enemies in the game and stereotypes of Palestinians. It's really why I barely even wade into arguments on the general board aside from posting in more trivial/less political threads altogether.
I really can't vouch for what Nora personally sent you either but I think the initial ban she received was wrong because her critique of liberalism absolutely comes from a wider systemic critique and how centrists mostly align themselves more with conservatives than actual progressive stances. Having read the post several times too I really can't find the area where she lumps all minorities together, she is clearly speaking of the responses in that very thread. And you know what? She was proved right too.