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Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
15,988
RE3 was disappointing because RE2's Tyrant felt like an actual Nemesis more than RE3's Nemesis did.

That's the only thing I'll grant you. Capcom did too good of a job with Mr. X.

X himself isn't that hard to deal with (you can outrun him easily and his slow ass punches are telegraphed a mile away) but the police department itself is set up in such a way that the zombies and lickers you didn't kill an hour ago are almost certainly now directly in your escape path. Especially if you didn't board up the damn Windows in that one corridor.

That's not really possible to do with RE3's layout, because you don't really end up revisiting much the way you do raccoon city PD.

X is also totally invincible (!) where Nemesis isn't- all the magnum rounds in the world will only stun X, but you can take out nemesis easily (at least for a while) with a grenade or two and RE3 was always designed that way. An "invincible" Nemesis doesn't quite work so X comes off as a bigger threat.

Capcom sort of painted themselves into a corner there because making Nemesis a "better" Mr X doesn't really work without making RE3 brutally unfair.
 

Richter1887

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
39,146


Doesn't seem that much shorter.

It is not about the length. RE3 had different routes and a more randomized design that could make each playthrough different. It was also a true survival horror that let's you explore and had puzzles. REmake 3 was mostly linear and each playthrough was the same every time.

Just looking at the length doesn't make REmake 3 any better. It still had way way less content and that's just if we are talking about the campaign and not the bonus stuff.
That's the only thing I'll grant you. Capcom did too good of a job with Mr. X.

X himself isn't that hard to deal with (you can outrun him easily and his slow ass punches are telegraphed a mile away) but the police department itself is set up in such a way that the zombies and lickers you didn't kill an hour ago are almost certainly now directly in your escape path. Especially if you didn't board up the damn Windows in that one corridor.

That's not really possible to do with RE3's layout, because you don't really end up revisiting much the way you do raccoon city PD.

X is also totally invincible (!) where Nemesis isn't- all the magnum rounds in the world will only stun X, but you can take out nemesis easily (at least for a while) with a grenade or two and RE3 was always designed that way. An "invincible" Nemesis doesn't quite work so X comes off as a bigger threat.

Capcom sort of painted themselves into a corner there because making Nemesis a "better" Mr X doesn't really work without making RE3 brutally unfair.
A good way to fix this is make Nemesis more like the original where you can knock him out if you have enough ammo. If you want to take the risk or want to save ammo you could try to escape and he would stalk you all the time until you find some way to take him out.
 

ANDS

Banned
Jun 25, 2019
566
People who say they "just knew" AVENGERS would fail are full of it; especially when the reasons they thought it would falter ("It's just based on the movies!") aren't even the reason it last all of its steam.

Avengers? Did anyone actually expect it to be good considering all of the negative press and poor showings it had?

What negative press? Folks who played the beta said it was fun and a lot of people engaged with it.

what the hell is rocket arena

A fun arena game that EA sent out to die.
 

Bradford

terminus est
Member
Aug 12, 2018
5,423
It's weird to see Panzer Dragoon Remake, a totally acceptable game, on the main list, and not Deadly Premonition 2.
 

JigglesBunny

Prophet of Truth
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
31,075
Chicago
Resident Evil 3 showing up here proves that "disappointing" doesn't mean "bad." Still deserves its place here though.
 

Jaymageck

Member
Nov 18, 2017
1,940
Toronto


Doesn't seem that much shorter.


It's less about length and more about what's in that length.

RE3 original has alternative paths, multiple endings & an awesome extra mode called mercenaries. It also has quite a few more locations in the main game, with at least one unique boss fight that helps provide more variety and distinction from RE2.

I actually really enjoyed the RE3 remake for what it is, on its own merits. It's a fun, cinematic game. But it is disappointing as a remake of 3. And considering how much more contentful the RE2 remake was, it could be argued it's a rip-off at the price it released at.
 

Calvin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,580
The Avengers is not a bad video game. I understand that people are unhappy with the live/end-game/GaaS aspect that was heavily hyped. I am disappointed in that too though I continue to play it.

The main story was an 8-10 hour fully fledged single player experience with an excellent story, great voice acting, interesting combat, and holds up well against similar games. I know how many people actively dislike the game, I just genuinely wonder how many of them actually played the campaign. Baffling.
 

NDA-Man

Member
Mar 23, 2020
3,074
A good way to fix this is make Nemesis more like the original where you can knock him out if you have enough ammo. If you want to take the risk or want to save ammo you could try to escape and he would stalk you all the time until you find some way to take him out.

I mean, isn't that how it is already? Nemesis shows up, Grawr, beat him up, grab a briefcase? Admittedly over a truncated timeline.

Like I think the only way to make Nemesis work like Mr. X did (as someone who didn't really see Mr. X as anything to write home about) would be to just keep him as fast as he is, but give him Mr. X's invulnerability.
 

No Depth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
18,263
Yea RE3 tops for me too. Echoing most of what was said already. The remake deserved better and we will likely never see another opportunity.

Panzer Dragoon had a rough start, but the team delivered with solid post-release support shortly after launch. No chance it belongs in this list.

Avengers I only played briefly and didn't dislike the campaign bits at all, but as stated it felt like nothing but negativity surrounded this from reveal.
 

Nocturnowl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,078
Look, maybe I'm expecting too much from Watchmojo and their 30 seconds of paper thin explanations but this vid is just naff.
You're really gonna roll out here and not only act like games like Rocket Arena and Kirby Fighters 2 were games with any hype behind them to even leave waves of disappointment, but then also give such reasons as "the visuals of Rocket Arena are too much like Fortnite" which might be the most bafflingly limp critique I've heard for a while.
 

Richter1887

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
39,146
I mean, isn't that how it is already? Nemesis shows up, Grawr, beat him up, grab a briefcase? Admittedly over a truncated timeline.

Like I think the only way to make Nemesis work like Mr. X did (as someone who didn't really see Mr. X as anything to write home about) would be to just keep him as fast as he is, but give him Mr. X's invulnerability.
Kinda but I was thinking more like this:

Nemesis shows and wants some jelly sandwich then you decide if you want to risk fighting him and risk ammo and supplies or run away, and hope he doesn't show up out of nowhere when you least want him to show up because you wanted to use the ammo on something else. Right now he shows up in downtown and you can't do anything about it other than run away cause he wakes up after you grab the brief case. Rather, they can do it like the original where you take him down and then he shows up later on.

The game should have made him a dog at the end instead of halfway through. He should have stalked you all the way through the hospital and Nest 2 until you take him down for good.

If he wakes up all the time then there is no use killing him instead of running away. If they make it so you can take him down and get a brief break until he shows up in the next scripted event it would be a good enough balance and add another strategy to the gameplay. Capcom just took the easy way out and decided to make him show up in one part where he stalks you then he becomes a set piece.
 

Roliq

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Sep 23, 2018
6,177
Kirby Fighters 2 was a disappointment?
I asked the same question.

Like other Kirby spin-offs over the past decade, it served its job as a fun distraction while we wait for the next mainline entry. (And Story Mode's an engaging challenge!)
Like the only thing that people would feel disappointed was not having most of the dream friends since they already had the movesets, other than that i don't see how since it was small game announced and released in a small timeframe
 
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HustleBun

Member
Nov 12, 2017
6,075
Kirby Fighters was disappointing? I was contemplating a purchase.
I asked the same question.

Like other Kirby spin-offs over the past decade, it served its job as a fun distraction while we wait for the next mainline entry. (And Story Mode's an engaging challenge!)
Kirby Fighters 2 was a disappointment?
Like the only thing that people would feel disappointed was not having most of the dream friends since they already had the movesets, other than i don't see how since it was small game announced and released in a small timeframe
Yeah, it's actually pretty good.
The only flaw is that online co-op isn't available in the Tower mode. It's local only which prevented my buddy from buying it.

 

rainking187

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,146
People shit on Avengers so much before it released that it actually ended up being significantly better than I was expecting.
 

P A Z

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,914
Barnsley, UK
My own biggest disappointment was the new Amnesia.

Never played one before but loved Soma, just bounced right off Amnesia, didn't even encounter a single enemy before I quit, despised the matchstick mechanic.
 

fanboy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,452
Slovakia
It can be a good game but an insanely disappointing remake. You think REmake 3 was good? Now imagine how it could have been if half the game hadn't have been cut out. It'd have been flat out amazing. Its a gigantic missed

Ehm, i read a bit about cut content and I really dont think they cut half of the game. Actually, hltb shows me that remake is as long as the original.. how much did they cut? 20%?

Anyway, r3make was supposed to be in one pack with r2make. That should be a lot of content... they probably decided to cut some of it to finish the game in time. Even cutting content wasnt enough and they had to split the game to 2 parts. If they approached the r3make.as a standalone game,.maybe there would be more content, who knows.
Also, its a remake, maybe they decided to do things little differently.
 

RoKKeR

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,375
Minecraft Dungeons at 2 is bizarre. Didn't it do exactly what it set out to do? Lol
 

Vidpixel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,637
List seems pretty random, especially the order. Guess that just goes to show this year was pretty good video game-wise
(events of the real world notwithstanding).
 

TripleBee

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,641
Vancouver
List is whack.

Deadly Premonition 2 is the real answer. First one is a cult classic.

2nd Game was like a 5 - both score wise and frame rate.
 

Richter1887

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
39,146
RE3 was the first RE I skipped in the past few years (I got tired of playing such similar games), so I have no idea

But what was wrong with RE3?
It was a game that barely felt like the original. It was basically a new game that takes some elements from RE3 like Nemesis, the story, characters and some ideas but is basically a different game altogether. Best way to describe it is think of the OG as Robocop the original movie and the remake as Robocop reboot.

The game itself feels rushed and is much more linear. If you ever played the demo you have basically seen the whole city area. The rest is a more linear game that barely has any exploration.

It is a fun game but it is a really disappointing "remake".
Ehm, i read a bit about cut content and I really dont think they cut half of the game. Actually, hltb shows me that remake is as long as the original.. how much did they cut? 20%?

Anyway, r3make was supposed to be in one pack with r2make. That should be a lot of content... they probably decided to cut some of it to finish the game in time. Even cutting content wasnt enough and they had to split the game to 2 parts. If they approached the r3make.as a standalone game,.maybe there would be more content, who knows.
Also, its a remake, maybe they decided to do things little differently.
Nah man that isn't the case. The game cut like 60% (and even that is generous) or more of the original. Even if you ignore how much smaller the city parts are compared to the original, the game barely has any of the replayability and randomized systems the original had. It has a bunch of enemies who never returned and all the puzzles were gone. Heck it doesn't even have as many weapons or stuff like outfits and mercenaries.

It is as bare bones as they come.
 

NDA-Man

Member
Mar 23, 2020
3,074
RE3 was the first RE I skipped in the past few years (I got tired of playing such similar games), so I have no idea

But what was wrong with RE3?

Okay, the short version from a guy who genuinely liked the game: They cut a bunch of stuff. A few enemy types where cut, including Gravedigger, a boss. In the original game, there were little "choose your own adventure" moments--like, at one point Nemesis ambushes you on a bridge, and you an either choose [Yeet the motherfucker off the bridge] or [Jump of the Bridge] (Paraphrased), and your choice would affect where you enter the next area from (the front door or the sewers)--that particular choice would affect the ending Uptown Raccoon was dramatically scaled down, the Clock Tower was just used as a boss arena when it was its own mini-RE mansion in the original, and a park got cut. The final area in the original was a rusty old factory that was a front for an Umbrella lab, when in the REmake it was an Umbrella lab directly underneath the hospital. And Nemesis's presence was diminished (a couple of boss fights, which IMO are much more fun than pretty much any bossfight in the fixed camera games, and brief stalker segment, and a lot of scripted stuff).

Personally, as a guy who fell completely out of love with fixed cameras, and found the script and acting way better, I'd say the gameplay makes up for the cuts (really, the only place I actually missed was the Clock Tower), but eh, different strokes for different folks.
 

shadowman16

Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,863
Ehm, i read a bit about cut content and I really dont think they cut half of the game. Actually, hltb shows me that remake is as long as the original.. how much did they cut? 20%?

Anyway, r3make was supposed to be in one pack with r2make. That should be a lot of content... they probably decided to cut some of it to finish the game in time. Even cutting content wasnt enough and they had to split the game to 2 parts. If they approached the r3make.as a standalone game,.maybe there would be more content, who knows.
Also, its a remake, maybe they decided to do things little differently.
Maybe you should read into it more then. Because the areas they cut sure as heck constitute cutting large parts of the game, sure they made the hospital a bit longer to compensate and that was excellent but it doesn't excuse the fact that so many iconic locations were cut - I mean - a big part of RE3 and the plot is escaping Raccoon City, and yet they cut notable parts of the city... RC in the remake feels so incredibly tiny compared to the amount of places you visit in the original. And since they cut those areas, that has a huge knock on effect to Nemesis (who is supposed to chase you through the city, but is reduced to a couple of (good) cutscenes and a couple of quick, scripted chases.

And (going back to it yet again) - cutting the clock tower sucks. Its basically a great interval point between exploring the main part of Raccoon City and the second half of the game. Its a mini RE1 type mansionish area, had some unique monsters, and originally has one of the best moments of the game (the Nemesis helicopter cutscene). And in the remake... its gone. You get out, get mine rounds, and then fight Nemesis. Then when you would do the hospital, park, cemetery, giant worm boss fight (in that order I think) its reduced to just a improved hospital. RE3 was ace because it let you explore Raccoon City as you tried to escape before it got nuked. REmake 3 screws that up by cutting or shrinking basically every last area in the game aside from the hospital. So many incidental parts of the city that were explorable are reduced to showing up in cutscenes or scripted sections.

And then there's the whole Dead Factory section, which is replaced more than cut but I already mentioned that. Its still reduced in size and complexity though - since the original version has a couple of clever puzzles that can be done to access certain parts of the factory and gain some sweet super powered weapons, but that was cut. Nemesis' penultimate boss fight had you basically melt him into nothingness as you fought him (hey, that's a cutscene now), Nicholai actually got a boss fight (granted, helicopter, not amazing) but again, yet another cut.

And all of the above doesn't take into account how at numerous points throughout these areas you get the choice of where to go. So there's at least two distinct playthroughs of the game to do where you can explore some different areas that can't be reached if you choose a particular choice. Its a better incentive to replay than what the remake offered (which was mainly great for higher difficulty and timed runs.
Oh, and there's also the part where enemies were cut in the remake, enemies were barely used in the remake, item randomisation was cut, enemy randomisation? I forget to be honest, but I can't recall it really being there (example - the Dead Factory had stuff like Spiders and Drain Deimos in certain rooms when you went back through them after a certain points - the remake cuts the spiders outright and uses the Drain Deimos in only one sole part of the game)

So yeah, its certainly a different take on the game, and its not a bad game if played in isolation. But looking at how much good content was either cut or changed its impossible to not be disappointed with how the remake turned out. If even just the Clock Tower part was included that would have automatically made it better. And if they got the park included as well? I'd have honestly been satisfied with it.
If time was an issue (which I'm sure it was) then it should have been delayed. They pushed it out way too soon after RE2 and unsurprisingly got a backlash when people complained about how short and subpar of a remake it was compared to how good 2 was.
 

Tatsu91

Banned
Apr 7, 2019
3,147



The list:

10. Resident Evil 3
9. Nickelodeon Kart Racers 2 Grand Prix
8. Predator: Hunting Grounds
7. Kirby Fighters 2
6. Rocket Arena
5. Crysis: Remastered
4. Battle Toads
3. Panzer Dragoon: Remake
2. Minecraft Dungeons
1. Marvel's Avengers

Panzer dragoon,MC dungeons and RE3 being their but that waste of time fast and the furious that had its own game awards segment not is a travesty.
 

Diogo Arez

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 20, 2020
17,614
RE3 deserved top 3 at least, the game was decent but never a good remake and sometimes a bad RE too tbh
 

daveo42

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,250
Ohio
RE3make definitely belongs on the list for being such a massive step down from 2, but no Doom Eternal invalidates this list. 2016 was one of the most fun I've had with any shooter in ages and I bounced off Eternal fast. One of my most hyped games of the year I put down after just a few hours with it.
 

Carnby

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,236
Well I the RE3 complaints make sense. So it's a good RE game, just not a good remake of RE3.
 

Richter1887

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
39,146
Oh, and there's also the part where enemies were cut in the remake, enemies were barely used in the remake, item randomisation was cut, enemy randomisation? I forget to be honest, but I can't recall it really being there (example - the Dead Factory had stuff like Spiders and Drain Deimos in certain rooms when you went back through them after a certain points - the remake cuts the spiders outright and uses the Drain Deimos in only one sole part of the game)
Enemy randomization was definitely a thing. A good example of that are the area near the town hall where sometimes dog would jump from the fire or crows or nothing. Another part where you can see it clearly is the park early on when you cross the water. Sometimes you encounter hunter gamma or zombies. Another is in the clocktower where you can find brain suckers or small spiders near the chapel.

Capcom really massacred the game :(
 

Sparks

Senior Games Artist
Verified
Dec 10, 2018
2,879
Los Angeles
Avengers? Did anyone actually expect it to be good considering all of the negative press and poor showings it had?
There's still massive potential there. For me the killers were the insane load times, performance issues and very confusing multiplayer integration. Otherwise there is some fun feeling Ultimate Alliance vibes that could be interesting... it just needs massive support. Whichhhh, I'm growing less confident with every day.
 

Deleted member 34949

Account closed at user request
Banned
Nov 30, 2017
19,101
Panzer Dragoon launched in a pretty sorry state deserving of this list, but after the 1.3 patch and the PS4/PC port, it's in a pretty good place now.

Definitely nowhere near as disappointing a remake as RE3.