Yea but Angela got the info from him in the first place when he asked her to do digging in the closet. That's the paradox, there's no origin of information there.
Correct, it is a time paradox. Like the compass on Lost, the entirety of The Terminator or '—All You Zombies—', so on.
He could have chosen to leave that out of the pills. She saw what he wanted her to see.
Nostalgia is selected memories. Maybe they just kept that one out.
From what I understand the way it works is that the pills only contain memories you want to contain, as the whole process involves recalling the memory which is then put into the pill. So it could simply be a matter of Will not choosing to put that memory in a pill.
Maybe he's just resolved to fate as a man who sees times as entirely fixed?
Most do praise it. We just have a couple of talkative people who didn't get it.
well-stated.I can understand why there's a bit of confusion and frustration around the Dr Manhattan determinism paradox ("why did he stand in front of the teleporter if he knew he would be teleported?" Etc) - this is one of the many factors why Alan Moore and others consider the original series unfilmable.
Consider this page:
As a very small sample of the structure of the comic book series, Dr Manhattan sees the entire page in one go. As we do, as comic book readers. We perceive the time jump, the repetition, the transition between photo and Mars, the differences between the state of time where the photo was taken and where Jon is now, and his inner monologue which also leaps between chronology, all at once. Yes, we read it linearly, but we don't have to (which can be confusing - and thus the point). And once we finish the page, we can jump to any panel we wish without doing anything but moving our eyes, and also perceive the entire page as a whole.
Watchmen, the comic book series, is using this technique all the time (part of the reason why the 9 panel grid structure is so vital to it).
The reader acts as Dr Manhattan. Taking in the narrative, aware of it, but never being able to change it.
This is one of the unique structural constructions that comic books possess.
This chapter in the graphic novel/series uses this technique to allow the reader to understand what it's like to see the world through Jon's eyes - jumping around out of order. The comic book page allows us to understand it, but this is very, very difficult, if not impossible to recreate in the linear, time based medium of film. Some films use split screen (e.g Ang Lee's Hulk movie) but you can't linger on the screen with that in the same way you can with a comic book. Time, in comics, is both moving and frozen, whereas film has a run-time that inexorably keeps moving even if the frame is static. Any 'pause' is artificial.
Which is why this episode, for me, is phenomenal. Not because it fails to recreate something that is very difficult/nigh impossible to formally recreate in terms of time manipulation, but because despite that, it creates a coherent story which moves the entire TV series both forward and backwards through time via its narrative.
Yes, there's repetition. Yes, there's juxtaposition. Yes there's a lot of exposition. And yes they may seem redundant, but these are entirely the point. Dr Manhattan's perception is all of these things. And frankly, trying to create that effect means that some people's millage may vary. Some will feel it's too expository, some will think it doesn't move enough, others will say it's too hand holdy and others will say it moves too quickly. But there's no way to avoid that. The creators did an incredible job with the limitations (time, budget, medium) that were there to allow for a episode which makes sense of what came before it - and it was always going to be, somehow, too much of one thing to some, and not enough of the other, for others.
(Speaking of limitations, are people really expecting the SFX of a TV series - even one filmed just under 10 years later - to match that of a Zack Snyder movie? C'mon, now.)
I honestly went into this series wanting to hate it, for many reasons. Instead, it's turning out to be one of the most well crafted and brilliant TV series I've seen all year. The level of thought and thematic construction to mimic the comic has been staggering from start to finish.
Yeah. Same when he's making pancakes and eggs, he says it's important. We never get to hear his side of story and what he wants to share with Angela. She keeps interrupting and disrupting him until he's teleported.
That's a different thing because that pertains to Manhattan himself who experiences time all at once, and in that manner it makes sense that there is no causality...for him. Angela and Will don't experience time the way he does, and the information regarding the closet had nothing to do with Manhattan other than him merely being the messenger of that information between the two parties.
Why wouldn't he fix his broken TV's nor have a new plan after seeing the world still use nuclear energy
You mean like telling the story about him getting the bible from Angela, trying to break bread with her, than walk on water...
"reactor meltdown.. idiots! I gave them every opportunity. Solar, wind, wireless power transmission... why oh why do they need to be making their god forsaken bombs."
I can understand why there's a bit of confusion and frustration around the Dr Manhattan determinism paradox ("why did he stand in front of the teleporter if he knew he would be teleported?" Etc) - this is one of the many factors why Alan Moore and others consider the original series unfilmable.
Consider this page:
As a very small sample of the structure of the comic book series, Dr Manhattan sees the entire page in one go. As we do, as comic book readers. We perceive the time jump, the repetition, the transition between photo and Mars, the differences between the state of time where the photo was taken and where Jon is now, and his inner monologue which also leaps between chronology, all at once. Yes, we read it linearly, but we don't have to (which can be confusing - and thus the point). And once we finish the page, we can jump to any panel we wish without doing anything but moving our eyes, and also perceive the entire page as a whole.
Watchmen, the comic book series, is using this technique all the time (part of the reason why the 9 panel grid structure is so vital to it).
The reader acts as Dr Manhattan. Taking in the narrative, aware of it, but never being able to change it.
This is one of the unique structural constructions that comic books possess.
This chapter in the graphic novel/series uses this technique to allow the reader to understand what it's like to see the world through Jon's eyes - jumping around out of order. The comic book page allows us to understand it, but this is very, very difficult, if not impossible to recreate in the linear, time based medium of film. Some films use split screen (e.g Ang Lee's Hulk movie) but you can't linger on the screen with that in the same way you can with a comic book. Time, in comics, is both moving and frozen, whereas film has a run-time that inexorably keeps moving even if the frame is static. Any 'pause' is artificial.
Which is why this episode, for me, is phenomenal. Not because it fails to recreate something that is very difficult/nigh impossible to formally recreate in terms of time manipulation, but because despite that, it creates a coherent story which moves the entire TV series both forward and backwards through time via its narrative.
Yes, there's repetition. Yes, there's juxtaposition. Yes there's a lot of exposition. And yes they may seem redundant, but these are entirely the point. Dr Manhattan's perception is all of these things. And frankly, trying to create that effect means that some people's millage may vary. Some will feel it's too expository, some will think it doesn't move enough, others will say it's too hand holdy and others will say it moves too quickly. But there's no way to avoid that. The creators did an incredible job with the limitations (time, budget, medium) that were there to allow for a episode which makes sense of what came before it - and it was always going to be, somehow, too much of one thing to some, and not enough of the other, for others.
(Speaking of limitations, are people really expecting the SFX of a TV series - even one filmed just under 10 years later - to match that of a Zack Snyder movie? C'mon, now.)
I honestly went into this series wanting to hate it, for many reasons. Instead, it's turning out to be one of the most well crafted and brilliant TV series I've seen all year. The level of thought and thematic construction to mimic the comic has been staggering from start to finish.
I can understand why there's a bit of confusion and frustration around the Dr Manhattan determinism paradox ("why did he stand in front of the teleporter if he knew he would be teleported?" Etc) - this is one of the many factors why Alan Moore and others consider the original series unfilmable.
Consider this page:
As a very small sample of the structure of the comic book series, Dr Manhattan sees the entire page in one go. As we do, as comic book readers. We perceive the time jump, the repetition, the transition between photo and Mars, the differences between the state of time where the photo was taken and where Jon is now, and his inner monologue which also leaps between chronology, all at once. Yes, we read it linearly, but we don't have to (which can be confusing - and thus the point). And once we finish the page, we can jump to any panel we wish without doing anything but moving our eyes, and also perceive the entire page as a whole.
Watchmen, the comic book series, is using this technique all the time (part of the reason why the 9 panel grid structure is so vital to it).
The reader acts as Dr Manhattan. Taking in the narrative, aware of it, but never being able to change it.
This is one of the unique structural constructions that comic books possess.
This chapter in the graphic novel/series uses this technique to allow the reader to understand what it's like to see the world through Jon's eyes - jumping around out of order. The comic book page allows us to understand it, but this is very, very difficult, if not impossible to recreate in the linear, time based medium of film. Some films use split screen (e.g Ang Lee's Hulk movie) but you can't linger on the screen with that in the same way you can with a comic book. Time, in comics, is both moving and frozen, whereas film has a run-time that inexorably keeps moving even if the frame is static. Any 'pause' is artificial.
Which is why this episode, for me, is phenomenal. Not because it fails to recreate something that is very difficult/nigh impossible to formally recreate in terms of time manipulation, but because despite that, it creates a coherent story which moves the entire TV series both forward and backwards through time via its narrative.
Yes, there's repetition. Yes, there's juxtaposition. Yes there's a lot of exposition. And yes they may seem redundant, but these are entirely the point. Dr Manhattan's perception is all of these things. And frankly, trying to create that effect means that some people's millage may vary. Some will feel it's too expository, some will think it doesn't move enough, others will say it's too hand holdy and others will say it moves too quickly. But there's no way to avoid that. The creators did an incredible job with the limitations (time, budget, medium) that were there to allow for a episode which makes sense of what came before it - and it was always going to be, somehow, too much of one thing to some, and not enough of the other, for others.
(Speaking of limitations, are people really expecting the SFX of a TV series - even one filmed just under 10 years later - to match that of a Zack Snyder movie? C'mon, now.)
I honestly went into this series wanting to hate it, for many reasons. Instead, it's turning out to be one of the most well crafted and brilliant TV series I've seen all year. The level of thought and thematic construction to mimic the comic has been staggering from start to finish.
