You're the one getting defensive here. Maybe you should know more about what's going on with those hotels before trying to offer them as a solution for a problem at a significantly higher scale.
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Washington Post: First migrant facility for children opens under Biden
- Thread starter Samiya
- Start date
First off, I'd suggest Biden admin rethink its position here:
That's something meaningful he can do before he eats dinner tonight.
For what else can be done, there's ATD (Alternatives to Detention) which uses the community instead of armed guards at private camps that cost the taxpayer more money to use
Report | A Better Way: Community-Based Programming as an Alternative to Immigrant Incarceration
How should the United States treat asylum seekers and immigrants who seek safety and stability in our communities? The question implicates legal, ethical, moral, and economic considerations. The United States government has answered with wasteful policies rooted in cruelty and at odds with...
This has been around for years now, and it should've been planned for before Biden even won the election. It definitely should've been talked about during the transition. Instead, Joe kept making excuses month after month.
Imagine giving benefit of the doubt to the American system after the last 18 years. Couldn't be me. Or giving benefit of the doubt to a man that has been deporting black immigrants by the bucketloads and has already deported nearly 30K people in his first month.
For those simply asking questions about what else could've been done this past month, Biden can follow the same suggestions given to Trump (and Obama) over the years
Reminder: Trump doesn’t need to keep migrants in detention camps
The administration has better options to enforce immigration and asylum laws.www.vox.com
It doesn't have to be this way. The Trump administration doesn't need to lock up asylum seekers and undocumented immigrants to enforce US immigration laws.Requesting asylum is not against the law, so there's no legal requirement to jail them like criminals. Under past administrations, the Department of Homeland Security has usually chosen to lock up both asylum seekers and those who cross the border without a visa, but the agency also created several effective alternatives to detention. The White House could prioritize these programs instead of keeping migrants in such inhumane conditions.One alternative is to release immigrants under community supervision, in which a nonprofit group or government contractor provides families with social workers, who help them find housing and transportation, and who make sure they attend court hearings and comply with the law.[...]The Family Case Management Program was launched by the Department of Homeland Security in 2015, in response to the waves of mothers and children seeking asylum from gang violence. Instead of keeping children in detention centers with their parents, families in certain cities were released and monitored by social workers, who helped them find lawyers, housing, and transportation and made sure they attended their court hearings.It seemed to work pretty well, according to ICE, though officers never had more than 1,600 people enrolled in the program during the two years it existed (compared to more than 350,000 immigrants who were held in ICE detention centers just in 2016).The contractor that ran the program said that 99 percent of participants "successfully attended their court appearances and ICE check-ins." That included the 15 families who were ultimately deported.Also, the Texas facility isn't the only kiddy camp being reopened. They're reopening the Homestead facility in Florida and activists are pissed.
Some of you all have lost your goddamn minds if you think any of this is acceptable. And no, it does not have to happen this way. There's a ton of alternative ideas and such the Biden admin can push through yesterday to make the situation better.
Write to your congress members.
This all seems geared towards children accompanied by adults...
Well I should have used a more generic term like wilderness I suppose, I didn't mean a specific location. But that is beside the point. What I'm curious about is what is the realistic expectation for Biden in his first month of office to handle a broken immigration system that is currently functioning in its own way to try to connect unaccompanied children with homes during a pandemic? Not only were there children staying in those camps during the transition of power, but there has been an influx of new migrants since word got around Biden won. There are certainly possibilities for the future that this admin needs to consider implementing, but given the logistical circumstances what can be done now? And I don't mean that rhetorically, if there is something Biden could be doing that is much better given the current circumstances prior to any legislative reform passing, I want to know.
Better than easily throwing my hands up, and going "Welp. Guess there's nothing we can do. Orange Man gone. Good enough for me. No longer my problem."
Okay so 30 days is their goal and their max is 42 days. I don't want my argument to die on the hill of how long they're given to reunite these kids. I'm sure every case is different. And as I said, it's not an ideal situation. But the two policies have completely different goals and results.
By "both sides"ing, we are muddying the conversation and making it more difficult to find a better solution.
Yep the 42 days average sucks and that's with Biden improving it from the 102 days under Trump. I hope more investigations happen and that number keeps improving. But history tells us that the government is awful about this stuff.
If its like my own countries system then social workers will try and place them with family, its very rare there are no surviving family to mind a kid until something can be sorted, otherwise they go to an emergency foster family who will take kids in for short term - my family was such a family and hundreds of kids stayed with us for varying length of time - if no short term foster family could be found then they would go to a supervised home, these had some sort of staff and security etc.
Considering its hard to get short term foster families as it is, and they deal with all sorts of situation where kids need a temporary home, I doubt there is enough for the US indigenous population. Never mind 6k of kids per month, even with the size of the US that's massive. There's no way the social systems you have in place can manage that. You're talking about a huge drive to recruit and vet families to mind these kids. Also you'll have possibly behaviourally and language difficulties on top.
I don't know what the answer is, but they need somewhere to be house to meet their basic needs immediately.
This.
Also that turn over time is insanely fast. I hope it gets even shorter, but for services like that 42 days (14 of which seems to be them in mandatory quarantine, so couldn't get shorter than 14) is lightning speed. Especially considering the number who are in need.
A not terribly surprising turn of events, this is always how American systems try to handle social problems like this, just monitor and guard them in makeshift prisons. Or uh, facilities.
Funniest strawman in this thread by far.
Funniest strawman in this thread by far.
It's not like we eliminate detention camps for everyone else except unaccompanied minors. There's different programs to handle all of this.
The Florida Homestead detention center was closed more than a year ago. What to do with all the kids?
All unaccompanied children removed from Homestead migrant detention facility
Homestead was the nation's largest facility for unaccompanied migrant children
www.cbsnews.com
What it means that we shut down Homestead detention center
Last spring, we set an ambitious goal: to shut down the largest migrant detention center for youth in the U.S. in time for the children to attend school in the fall.
It's simple for me and others: don't reopen the kiddy "influx" prison bullshit.
I'm really in awe of this thread. People have really outsourced their morality to their respective parties
Ding Ding Ding
Wonder what would happen to these posts under the orange cheetos administration.
Anyway this shit is so depressing
How could this happen in the authoritarian leaning center-right United States of America!?
These camps have got to go. There is plenty of room in this country to build some kind of humane facility to hold people in while being processed. For the mightiest nation in the history of the world to be putting children in camps is embarrassing.
These camps have got to go. There is plenty of room in this country to build some kind of humane facility to hold people in while being processed. For the mightiest nation in the history of the world to be putting children in camps is embarrassing.
Yeah schools are not open right now and the short turn around time is very hard to place them in a community school in the nearest city. If this were months like in Sweden where they have open classrooms I could see it.
The company that ran the food and shelter program should be under intense scrutiny, but I prefer they didn't use them in any way.
damn yo guess you ain't been around baltimore lol
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THANK YOU!
People conflating this with Trump's family separation policy is driving me crazy, and while the article makes the distinction clear, whoever wrote that salacious headline certainly isn't helping. Neither is the OP who quoted none of the context.
The only realistic alternative to this is deportation or refusing entry to unaccompanied minors. Ideally these cases would be processed more quickly and no one would stay in these camps for long but immigration agents can't be hired and trained overnight.
Yeah, once you have a child picked up by the government with no known family to claim them, whether that child is a foreign migrant or a natural-born US citizen, you're already in a bad situation regardless. You don't really have a good option at that point. When you have enough of those kids showing up that you need specific accommodations for it, you're going to have to do some less than ideal stuff.
I do think that given the politics of this coming out of the Trump admin, more should've been done to make this look less like the Trump policy, even if there's no way to avoid the ultimate fact that you're making a holding facility for children. You have to know people are primed to see border detention facilities as negatively as possible right now.
In the long run you need an immigration policy and a refugee policy that's generous enough that people aren't trying to sneak in through long, potentially deadly treks, and a foreign policy that views boosting Mexican and Central American standards of living as a core US interest so that you don't have as many of these kids showing up alone like this.
really? are those the only alternatives? lots of hotels have vacancies now during the pandemic. ypu can house people there
That would require buying/leasing out entire facilities and converting them to house all of the extra services needed.
Many hotels already primed for that are being used as Covid facilities.
It takes time. All of the Austin hotel conversions are taking at least a year, and that's without the state government interference.
no, they cant
Judge blocks Trump administration from detaining migrant children in hotels | CNN Politics
US Distirct Judge Dolly M. Gee issued an order Friday blocking the US government from detaining migrant children in hotels, a practice that's been a key part of a secretive new system that immigration advocates had warned was putting kids in danger.
www.cnn.com
Short of kicking the kids out onto the streets and saying good luck finding your family the Shelter is the only realistic option. Is a particular company in charge a problem? That should be looked at and dealt with. However there is no way we are just going to kick unaccompanied children on the street. Renting out Hotel chains is also not a realistic thing and courts have opposed such measures in the past as unsafe.
There are all sorts of safety issues that need to be addressed for the good of the child which means taking the time to vet so called family etc. The last thing we want to be doing is turning over children to "family" that is nothing more than sex traffickers etc. The features of this facility are certainly leagues above the Concrete floors and steel cages with aluminum blankets Trump was doing.
There are all sorts of safety issues that need to be addressed for the good of the child which means taking the time to vet so called family etc. The last thing we want to be doing is turning over children to "family" that is nothing more than sex traffickers etc. The features of this facility are certainly leagues above the Concrete floors and steel cages with aluminum blankets Trump was doing.
These are children, and the government has a legal and moral responsibility to see that they are taken care of properly. Is a 12 year old responsible enough to take care of themselves in a hotel in a foreign country? We'll have to monitor them to make sure they don't accidentally or intentionally hurt themselves, right? We'll have to bring them food, right? We have to have doctors on staff to see to their health, right? We can't let them leave until we've verified they're going to an actual family member under safe circumstances, or this would be the easiest loophole possible for child traffickers to sneak kids into the country, right? That means security guards, fences, etc... And now the hotel is a government camp. There's really just no moral or legal way around this. The only thing we can realistically do is try to speed up processing times.
I'm reading the article, this is a emergency shelter until the children can find a state sponsor? There needs to be more sponsors in the US if this chart is anything to go by
www.acf.hhs.gov
Unaccompanied Children Released to Sponsors by State
Unaccompanied Children Released to Sponsors by State
They're all labeled "Legal Building", which suggests they're temporary offices for meeting with legal help.
So that's not evidence of anything dubious.
Looks like those are for the staff. Legal building on each of them.
Also hey liberals, even if this is a temporary emergency thing that had to be thrown up at a spur of the moment, how about being a little more empathic? Like "I know it doesn't look great, but this isn't permanent" or "It sucks, but it's the best they could do at the moment. They need to get them into better facilities ASAP" or something along those lines. A dismissive and haughty "It's better than Trump" just makes you all look like evil assholes.
Just food for thought.
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Uh, the picture says Legal Bldg on the side of every building. It's literally the offices for the legal department so they can operate socially distanced.
They each say LEGAL BUILDING.
And to be fair, there's nearly 7 pages here, many have said just that.
The source is the picture YOU posted.
What school can handle thousands of children, eating, sleeping, legal visits with immigration lawyers etc. and also ensure social distancing. According to the story, the only reason this site needed to be opened again was the others are at full capacity due to covid cutting occupancy in half.
European hot take coming in, beware...
While this solution is definitely not ideal, it seems like Trumps' absolute dedication to twist and contort any kind of federally-run agency/institution/procedure into the absolute worst and most cruel version of itself has led to people understandably compeltely rejecting anything that resembles what Trump has done even on a surface level.
Imo (!), this is suboptimal insofar as a lot of this stuff most likely has existed before Trump, just not as blatantly cruel, and it's not like a new admin can just go in and change everything within a few weeks on a fundamental level and without legislation - especially on something as complex and massive as immigration policy.
It's absolutely necessary to keep pressure up on the Biden-admin to do better (regarding basically everything...) but if people really loose trust in Biden/the dems as soon as something even as much as resembles Trumps policies or they don't change complex and structurally entangled systems overnight, Trump was successful in eroding trust in democracy completely.
Having said that, if there is not any meaningful change coming to the system within a reasonable timeframe, there is no defense anymore.
While this solution is definitely not ideal, it seems like Trumps' absolute dedication to twist and contort any kind of federally-run agency/institution/procedure into the absolute worst and most cruel version of itself has led to people understandably compeltely rejecting anything that resembles what Trump has done even on a surface level.
Imo (!), this is suboptimal insofar as a lot of this stuff most likely has existed before Trump, just not as blatantly cruel, and it's not like a new admin can just go in and change everything within a few weeks on a fundamental level and without legislation - especially on something as complex and massive as immigration policy.
It's absolutely necessary to keep pressure up on the Biden-admin to do better (regarding basically everything...) but if people really loose trust in Biden/the dems as soon as something even as much as resembles Trumps policies or they don't change complex and structurally entangled systems overnight, Trump was successful in eroding trust in democracy completely.
Having said that, if there is not any meaningful change coming to the system within a reasonable timeframe, there is no defense anymore.
No. We don't put white orphans in prisons. We'll sort out citizen orphan issues sometime down the line assuming the dems never lose an election again and it doesn't cost too much.
The migrant orphans are just fucked. We're trying all kinds of things out tho like putting kids in camps where they're abused and soon, putting kids in camps with abusers. Nothings really working very well so far but we'll get there.
There are pictures in the article showing the actual facility areas are big tents not the trailers.
Ya know these threads would be a lot more bearable and readable if people didn't try to come in with the hottest takes without doing a bit of research.
No discussion can be had in these threads when it just devolves into drive posts and people attacking each other.
Mods gotta get these threads sorted out
No discussion can be had in these threads when it just devolves into drive posts and people attacking each other.
Mods gotta get these threads sorted out
Completely agree with suggesting some sort of mod action with regard to ultra hot takes. Discussion revolving this sort of thing is at a horrendously base level. The first page, especially, is an embarrassment.
That said, further comforts and accommodations should still be worked on, but these are difficult situations with room for nuance.
That said, further comforts and accommodations should still be worked on, but these are difficult situations with room for nuance.
I'm not even going to say that you're wrong about this, but I just find it fascinating that this call for nuance only comes after the regime change.
I'm not American but don't yous have a fptp winner takes all voting system? So what would have been the alternative? Don't vote and have a "After Hitler, our turn" thing?
It's a matter of perspective: People want to vote Democrats as the lesser of two evils, that makes logical sense. But if you're going to then go to bat for the atrocities they commit, particularly those you just condemned the other side for, it's just team sports and not about actual progress.