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Was their ever a trend or trends in genres you like that hurt the genre for you?

Crushed

Crushed

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,719
The rise of the quickplay/ranked play matchmaking standard for FPSs.

I get that servers lists were more complicated, and the standardization of settings has its benefits, but the death of more persistent in game communities and the rise of matchmaking (especially SBMM) resulted in a system that feels less like something to do to pass time with friends and more like a grind to make your persistent numbers go up, and drop the game once you stop caring about those numbers. Ranked play becomes a stressfest 90% of the time with any matchmaking, and quick play is split between people treating it as ranked practice and getting mad at anyone not being just as serious, or people who see the name "quickplay" as a blessing to goof off and troll strangers.
 
Garrison

Garrison

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,897
Gosh, so many things...

Theme park design, instances, guide map telling your were you find your next item on a quest, and single player focused design overall killed mmo's for me.

Thanks WoW!
 
Dogui

Dogui

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,809
Brazil
Before FFXII, Jrpgs had a lot better (and fewer) sidequests. Now everything needs to have 300 useless "kill 10 generic enemy" mmo-esque sidequests. Despite being one of my favorite games ever, Xenoblade is only a good experience for me because i ignore them.

Also, i loved the social link stuff in Persona but it kind of fucked other games. Cold Steel is probably the best example, with Rean being the center of the fucking universe just to retain the visual novel elements instead of making meaningful relationships between the characters.

I like RE4 a lot, but it did killed the entire classic survival horror genre, which i liked more :p
 
danmaku

danmaku

Member
Nov 5, 2017
3,233
From Software pushing slow-ass combat with stamina bars in action games. Thank god (and by god I mean Itsuno) DMC stayed away from that.
 
HK-47

HK-47

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,595
Dogui said:
Before FFXII, Jrpgs had a lot better (and fewer) sidequests. Now everything needs to have 300 useless "kill 10 generic enemy" mmo-esque sidequests. Despite being one of my favorite games ever, Xenoblade is only a good experience for me because i ignore them.

Also, i loved the social link stuff in Persona but it kind of fucked other games. Cold Steel is probably the best example, with Rean being the center of the fucking universe just to retain the visual novel elements instead of making meaningful relationships between the characters.

I like RE4 a lot, but it did killed the entire classic survival horror genre, which i liked more :p
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I don't recall any side quests like that in FFXII outside of maybe opening up bazaar items

Also RE4 saved RE from itself.
 
MouldyK

MouldyK

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
10,118
Combat in Farming games like Stardew.

Like i'm meant to be farming, not battling Jelly Monsters.

Nothing annoys me more than finding a fun-looking farming game, then they talk about combat and i'm like "Is fishing, farming, mining and talking to townfolk not enough?"

Can't wait until Animal Crossing decides it needs to actually turn you into the "Killager".
 
Asbsand

Asbsand

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,901
Denmark
WoW's formula for MMO design. (Loot as the reward, side quest to "ding")

MMO WoW RPG design in single player open world RPGs (do X thing Y times to get a "QUEST COMPLETED" message. Play like this for 100 hours)

Gears stop and pop combat in pretty much all PS3-generation TPS shooters.

Throwing distraction bricks and bottles just because it's a "horror" game; just because The Last of Us did it, and you're too afraid to break any boundaries as a conservative Ex-Horror-RE publisher, Capcom (thanks for RE7 and 2 though)

Having a "hold R to duck and see through walls stealth" system just because The Last of Us did it.

Having "Towers" just because it's an open world game in a post Ubibox world. (breath of the wild is no excuse even though it subverts its execution: it's still derivative of other games, not of elsewhere which is bad imo).

Downgrading to lower tier "screenplay" writing with sparse dialogue and lots of F bombs and shits to sound more credible. What happened to prose and thank fuck for Sam Lake and stuff.

Trying hard to impose purely scripted setpieces into a series that didn't used to have them. Mass Effect 3 wannabe'd Uncharted 2. Halo 4 and 5 wannabe'd Call of Duty Modern Warfare sequels. Cutscene-driven setpieces with no system interactions *suck*.

Mario Odyssey also aping a slightly more "Ubibox" feel. Instant gratification everywhere. Redundant moons and coins to the level of Far Cry's boring wildlife and boring upgrade systems. Remove 500 moons and place everything more meticulously and Odyssey would've been a more memorable game for it. I came out loving its 4 hour campaign with its charming cutscenes but not as much the raw game under there.
 
Ruddles

Ruddles

Member
Oct 17, 2018
351
I'd pick the dominance of APM (actions per minute) in the RTS genre. At one time my favourite genre but it turned into clickfest over strategic choices. At least there's still XCOM for people like me that have reaction times of treacle :)
 
Chettlar

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,604
Bulebule said:
Action adventures: Skill trees and leveling up/getting skill points. Most of the time they feel unnecessary bloat to the game and I rather have different techniques/weapons (that are actually useful) unlock automatically as you progress through the story.

RPGs: Huge worlds with lengthy distances between points of interests with basically nothing happening elsewhere. I rather have smaller areas with plenty of content/secrets.

Any genre in general: Huge number of collectable items that don't give any actual satisfaction after collecting them. I rather have smaller amount of them behind puzzles like Luigi's Mansion 3 does. I don't care about the overall reward but the journey to get them has to be fun as well.
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Would have been the post I made.
 
monmagman

monmagman

Member
Dec 6, 2018
4,126
England,UK
Everything being open world has hurt lots of games.....I understand why though,an 8hr linear game isn't cutting it anymore and I guess making a 30hr one isn't realistic given game costs these days.
 

Deleted member 37739

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 8, 2018
908
spineduke said:
its not like every 2d action game is a roguelite, if theres one genre that needs as much diversification as possible, its the 2d platformer.
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More that lots of cool 2D action games that looked really cool turned out to be Rogue-likes... I'm all for diversification, but the title was about trends that hurt a genre for you and this is one that came to mind for me.
 
RROCKMAN

RROCKMAN

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,824
The rise of creepy cool crosses and random Christian Iconography being thrown around in RPGs and Anime in the 90s and early 2000s

Mary Magdalene sharing a body with a robot girl still makes me cringe to this day
 
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RROCKMAN

RROCKMAN

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,824
ara said:
Is this a Xenogears/Saga thing? Cause it sounds hilarious and I've been meaning to replay the earlier Xeno games and need motivation
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Xenosaga, yup have fun. Bring Spotify though, the first game has like exactly one battle theme and it gets old pretty quick

For all the hate Xenoblade 2 gets, it's the only time Takahashi figures out this thing called subtlety
And actually starts to use it correctly.
 
SaberVS7

SaberVS7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,256
For everyone complaining about the death of linearity.

Did you guys not SEE the reaction that FF13 and other super-linear Late 7th-Gen games got? The industry had no choice but to react and adapt to the shifting attitudes towards Linearity in the Early 2010s.

No one wants to be the studio behind the next "The game plays itself!" embarrassment. And anything less than what various JRPG devs have been doing Can and Will garner that reaction from Influencers like FF13 did.
 
HK-47

HK-47

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,595
Asbsand said:
WoW's formula for MMO design. (Loot as the reward, side quest to "ding")

MMO WoW RPG design in single player open world RPGs (do X thing Y times to get a "QUEST COMPLETED" message. Play like this for 100 hours)

Gears stop and pop combat in pretty much all PS3-generation TPS shooters.

Throwing distraction bricks and bottles just because it's a "horror" game; just because The Last of Us did it, and you're too afraid to break any boundaries as a conservative Ex-Horror-RE publisher, Capcom (thanks for RE7 and 2 though)

Having a "hold R to duck and see through walls stealth" system just because The Last of Us did it.

Having "Towers" just because it's an open world game in a post Ubibox world. (breath of the wild is no excuse even though it subverts its execution: it's still derivative of other games, not of elsewhere which is bad imo).

Downgrading to lower tier "screenplay" writing with sparse dialogue and lots of F bombs and shits to sound more credible. What happened to prose and thank fuck for Sam Lake and stuff.

Trying hard to impose purely scripted setpieces into a series that didn't used to have them. Mass Effect 3 wannabe'd Uncharted 2. Halo 4 and 5 wannabe'd Call of Duty Modern Warfare sequels. Cutscene-driven setpieces with no system interactions *suck*.

Mario Odyssey also aping a slightly more "Ubibox" feel. Instant gratification everywhere. Redundant moons and coins to the level of Far Cry's boring wildlife and boring upgrade systems. Remove 500 moons and place everything more meticulously and Odyssey would've been a more memorable game for it. I came out loving its 4 hour campaign with its charming cutscenes but not as much the raw game under there.
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Everyone in the know knows that bricks and bottles aren't for distractions, but for busting some dude's face in.
 
Neoleo2143

Neoleo2143

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,462
DragonKeeper said:
I thought the discussion was about quality of overall writing, lolis and pervtaku pandering. Not about if it was fun to play.
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At the very least the game doesn't have social links at all, and the character relationships progress at their intended pace. Stuff like bonding points and social links hamstring character writing harder than anything in Xenoblade 2.

I'm disappointed in the increased presence of sexual "fanservice", but I don't really find myself disliking the characters or writing in Xenoblade 2, in ways they're actually quite a bit more interesting than XC1, particularly thanks to the world being generally more developed.
 
DragonKeeper

DragonKeeper

Member
Nov 14, 2017
1,588
Neoleo2143 said:
At the very least the game doesn't have social links at all, and the character relationships progress at their intended pace. Stuff like bonding points and social links hamstring character writing harder than anything in Xenoblade 2.

I'm disappointed in the increased presence of sexual "fanservice", but I don't really find myself disliking the characters or writing in Xenoblade 2, in ways they're actually quite a bit more interesting than XC1, particularly thanks to the world being generally more developed.
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The only things wrong with the character writing in XC2 is the main characters weren't particularly interesting. That and how poorly the visual designs of characters like Pyra matched their narrative designs (terribly self conscious but is dressed like a space stripper). It's the plot and story and clash of themes and designs that make the writing so rough...and Tora being 100% awful. The dialog is also really bad anime cheese when its trying to be funny.
 
Sea lion

Sea lion

Banned
Nov 8, 2017
903
Is there any recent JRPG that isn't derogatory to women in some fashion?
Cause that shit needs to end, along with the token pedo bait. Which is whole other can of worms that we as consumers can change. But I guess we need to think of the degenerates first or something.
 
lake

lake

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,289
The move toward various types of "realism" in competitive FPS games was the start of my move away from the genre, which I'd been a rabid day-one fan of. First movement speeds started dropping. Then "real-world"-styled games like Counter-Strike caught the zeitgeist, which totally killed my interest.
 

Deleted member 59109

User requested account closure
Banned
Aug 8, 2019
7,877
The trend in adventure games in general to all be open world. It's unfortunately even spreading to platformers too, with the "collectathon" mentality
 

Deleted member 16753

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
520
RTS games introducing hero characters completely destroyed the genre for me. It's pretty much the antithesis to what I enjoyed about the genre.

Come back mechanics in fighting games isn't doing the genre any favours either.
 
Jay_AD

Jay_AD

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,910
Half Life was great, but it and its overwhelming success also was the inflection point for shooters moving from "interesting, explorable spaces" towards "linear corridors dotted with scripted setpieces".
 
RROCKMAN

RROCKMAN

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,824
Hailinel said:
Lesbians and bi women exist in the fanbase? Not to mention the large portion of the fanbase that's female?

Also, how are same-sex pairings otaku pandering in and of themselves?
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They aren't but it's seriously odd to think that majority Yuri type pairing aren't an attempt at pandering when they have a long history of being otaku bait, especially in doujins.

And even if it was for just the bi/lesbian part of the fan base, why not even the score to reach the most amount of people in the first place? Surely some Bi people and Straight girls would want Boy on Boy too, even if we ignore the gay audience.
 
Hailinel

Hailinel

Shamed a mod for a tag
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,527
RROCKMAN said:
They aren't but it's seriously odd to think that majority Yuri type pairing aren't an attempt at pandering when they have a long history of being otaku bait, especially in doujins.

And even if it was for just the bi/lesbian part of the fan base, why not even the score to reach the most amount of people in the first place? Surely some Bi people and Straight girls would want Boy on Boy too, even if we ignore the gay audience.
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Regardless of how even the game could be, they didn't hire an artist known for her otome game work to pander to male otaku.
 
GoldStarz

GoldStarz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,040
Alpha Baymax said:
Xenoblade Chronicles 2 didn't even set a low bar. For a Nintendo Switch launch game, it's fun to play and has engaging characters.
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DragonKeeper said:
I thought the discussion was about quality of overall writing, lolis and pervtaku pandering. Not about if it was fun to play.
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Xenoblade 2 is fun to play, but Torna is just as, if not more, fun than its base game while being better written and largely avoiding the grossness that XB2 had.

Neoleo2143 said:
At the very least the game doesn't have social links at all, and the character relationships progress at their intended pace. Stuff like bonding points and social links hamstring character writing harder than anything in Xenoblade 2.

I'm disappointed in the increased presence of sexual "fanservice", but I don't really find myself disliking the characters or writing in Xenoblade 2, in ways they're actually quite a bit more interesting than XC1, particularly thanks to the world being generally more developed.
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I mean, they 100% do have the same social links, and honestly they're even worse since skills and abilities are locked behind them in addition to their Blade Quests (not that any of them are that interesting).

I definitely can't agree that the XB2 characters are more interesting than XB1's though. It feels like there's barely anything beyond the surface for most of them and Morag barely does anything to further her own character.
 
Sanctuary

Sanctuary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,228
Very much so. Last gen there were a great many genres that decided to go first-person with and without shooting elements. I was already so over first-person shooters (and perspective in general due to the limitations it has on gameplay) before that trend even started.

Open-world was already getting tiring (on top of the games that were checklist, time waster based) as were "RPG elements" (and I happen to love RPGs...mostly).

This gen seemingly a large majority of the bigger games have been "Open-world" had "RPG elements" and now also had a massive amount of that "Cinematic Experience™" injected into them. It just makes it very hard for me to enjoy certain genres that I used to because the games have become so homogenized and interchangeable. This is primarily an issue in the AAA space, but god damn, I used to enjoy a good mix of AAA games with my "AA" games as well.

I honestly can't enjoy most AAA games that have been released this gen, and only moderately like some that I've actually purchased. It really isn't just me being "bored with video games" either, because each time I think that might be the case, a random game falls from the sky that disproves that.

DanteMenethil said:
Everyone convincing themselves that turn based jrpg is outdated and action rpg are strickly better. Ruined final fantasy and countless others.
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Turn-based can get pretty boring at times, especially if the game is extremely long and you've already exhausted all variants of the enemies, so there's nothing new to see. It mainly becomes auto pilot at that point, and only boss fights mean much of anything. The same thing could be said about action based RPGs too I suppose, but for me it doesn't become as much of an issue as long as the combat still feels good...which has never been the case to me up until Demon's Souls (If you even count that as a "JRPG" in the first place). Because so many RPGs fall flat on their face with having actual good, action combat mechanics, I would honestly prefer that if they can't get that right, then just make it turn-based instead. It's pretty hard to fuck that up.
 
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Neoleo2143

Neoleo2143

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,462
GoldStarz said:
I mean, they 100% do have the same social links, and honestly they're even worse since skills and abilities are locked behind them in addition to their Blade Quests (not that any of them are that interesting).

I definitely can't agree that the XB2 characters are more interesting than XB1's though. It feels like there's barely anything beyond the surface for most of them and Morag barely does anything to further her own character.
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I would say it's less of a problem because for one, those aren't the core cast members and they aren't centered around the player character so much as the party as a whole getting involved. That's the main stifling of character writing that social links have, it ties them all to the main character for some arbitrary reason and XC2 simply doesn't do that, plus there's zero character killing romance option at all.

I think the disagreement on the character depth has come up before. I think it's pretty obvious that's not the case otherwise you wouldn't be able to use Drifting Soul as a lens to interpret the characters. Obviously not all the characters like Morag have their singular moment of huge development, but they usually get smaller moments that demonstrate what their place is and what they want.
 
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