If they launch the Disney streaming service soon-ish then absolutely. It's a monster IP that a lot of people will sign up for the service with the guarantee of Star Wars stuff being a big incentive.
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Was the whole Disney-Star wars deal worth it?
- Thread starter MillionIII
- Start date
The Mandalorian is launching alongside Disney+ later this year.
Absolutely. For both parties.
Star Wars was essentially dead before TFA came out. The prequels ended in 2005
Star Wars was essentially dead before TFA came out. The prequels ended in 2005
The excessive "world building" was a detriment to the PT, in my opinion. The OT dropped you onto planets with little to no explanation of what they were or their place in the grand scheme of things, settling on intimate small-scale locations, and let the focus be on the story and character interactions. Without reaching into the EU, what do we know about Tatooine, Hoth, Dagobah, the forest moon of Endor, etc...?He never lost the passion for SW that's dumb, he had ideas for sequels but he is 74 years old you can't expect him to work on them forever. The new ones have no vision behind them, they are better from a technical standpoint but that's it. they don't touch the prequels worldbuilding with a 10 foot pole.
Those sweeping airborne vistas you showed in that post are grand but ultimately empty. This gives us more than any of them:
OP
OP
That's because of budget and technical limitations, it's not exclusive to the prequels. star wars always had massive scale.The excessive "world building" was a detriment to the PT, in my opinion. The OT dropped you onto planets with little to no explanation of what they were or their place in the grand scheme of things, settling on intimate small-scale locations, and let the focus be on the story and character interactions. Without reaching into the EU, what do we know about Tatooine, Hoth, Dagobah, the forest moon of Endor, etc...?
Those sweeping airborne vistas you showed in that post are grand but ultimately empty. This gives us more than any of them:
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Having just walked out of The Void at Disney Springs and playing Secrets of the Empire - i'm on Team Yes.
Super rad experience, worth checking out if you have a The VOID near you.
Super rad experience, worth checking out if you have a The VOID near you.
Well that's going to be difficult for you to understand then from someone else's perspective no matter what.
The tone set by the opening crawl and the supposed situation the plot sets forth makes it seem like the "First Order" are a 'serious' threat; that's basically the crux of why others don't find it funny in that moment (your mammy joke). Hux from that moment on seems to now be a comedic, over the top villain and the First Order are mostly incompetents. There are no Veers, Tarkins, Pietts, or even Thrawns in these movies to take these First Order goofballs seriously.
To me the OT 'humor' seems more organic and natural ("Uh, We're all fine here, how are you?"), where-as the sequel trilogy some of the humor seems too forced and played out in the wrong moment. Han saying "That's not how the force works" in TFA, I laughed. Your Mommy in TLJ, I cringed. Mileage varies for everyone on viewing. *Major Shrug*
I get that, but when there were only numbered Star Wars episodes, each spaced a few years apart, there would be a big bonanza every time the new film tie-in toys launched. Now with these toy line releases happening every year, that big frenzy of collectors descending on the toy aisles seems to have abated. It certainly seems to have impacted Hasbro.
A good writer/director can challenge George Lucas on the bad parts of his work, while taking advantage of the good parts, and George never wanted to be as deeply involved as he was.
Empire Strikes Back was the best Star Wars movie, and it was "created" by George Lucas, but it was re-written by Lawrence Kasdan and directed by Irvin Kershner, both of whom were able to challenge George and help steer Star Wars in a better direction.
But then George got in a fight with the Director's Guild of America over the artistic integrity of his opening credits, and he was blacklisted from working with American directors. He was forced to hire a documentary filmmaker from the UK to direct Return of the Jedi, and he wasn't confident that the guy knew what he was doing, so he micromanaged him and burned himself out, cancelling the planned episodes 7-9 and killing Star Wars, on top of making the most flawed Star Wars movie to date.
When George finally got around to making the Prequels, he didn't want to get super involved again like he was with RotJ, but then Pepsi apparently demanded that he "take the movies seriously." If they were going to support him with millions of dollars, he should be the one to write and direct them (based on the popular but mistaken belief that George was a superman who had the Midas touch and could do no wrong). George was blasted for being "lazy" in his directing in the Prequels, but a better word for it should've been "overworked". And George saw that coming and tried to avoid it, but people wouldn't let him because they thought he was a hero. Oh and guess what, he was burned out again afterward and we never got any more movies until the sale to Disney.
The Disney movies have the benefit of talented writers and directors, but they're still failing (in the eyes of many, but not everyone, as this thread clearly illustrates). Is it the George Lucas factor? Are the writers/directors missing that "secret sauce" key ingredient? Are the writers/directors running wild without a George Lucas to rein them in?
It's already been established that George Lucas can't make Star Wars by himself, but can other people make Star Wars without George Lucas?
To Disney? Yes, without a doubt.
To me? Yes I wasn't a fan of the series prior to the hype of TFA. I ended up watching the whole saga after that and have been a fan ever since
To Lucas? No. He could have easily gotten 10B+ for Star Wars alone. He sold it for 4B, and included Lucas Arts, Indiana Jones, ILM, and Skywalker Sound. I remember Fox and other studios saying they wished they could have bid on it.
To old time fans? I'm not sure. Some people love it, some people hate it, some complain about it. So it depends, I guess. I know there's more SW content and merch than ever before and 200MM movies being put out often and the first ever live action tv show with a 100MM+ budget. I know if I were a long time fan I would be overall happy about it.
To me? Yes I wasn't a fan of the series prior to the hype of TFA. I ended up watching the whole saga after that and have been a fan ever since
To Lucas? No. He could have easily gotten 10B+ for Star Wars alone. He sold it for 4B, and included Lucas Arts, Indiana Jones, ILM, and Skywalker Sound. I remember Fox and other studios saying they wished they could have bid on it.
To old time fans? I'm not sure. Some people love it, some people hate it, some complain about it. So it depends, I guess. I know there's more SW content and merch than ever before and 200MM movies being put out often and the first ever live action tv show with a 100MM+ budget. I know if I were a long time fan I would be overall happy about it.
MCU is doing what Star Wars already did in the 80's. Star Wars is forging a shitty new frontier where the spin-offs are stand alone prequels.
The content itself has ranged from alright to really interesting, but I've got to vote "no" only because I find it extremely troubling that a single company owns such an enormous swath of American media culture. I don't think that's good for our culture in the long run, at all.
"Well I wasn't super fond of the last Jedi so..."
🙄
Considering the critical and monetary reception she's done an amazing job
I loved Rogue One. I think it hangs with the originals. Force Awakens is really good too, but wish the plot didn't hug so closely to ANH. Solo was average. I put it around the same quality as the prequels. The last Jedi was complete trash.
So I guess it's been ok? Hopefully Abrhams can right the ship again.
So I guess it's been ok? Hopefully Abrhams can right the ship again.
You need to ask yourself if you'd rather have Disney owning Lucasfilm, or have Star Wars be completely dead. Like as dead as Babylon 5 is now. Like 1986-1990 when it was a forgotten franchise and dead. Because that's what almost happened.
George started mulling retirement around 2009/2010 and there was no real plan for the future of Lucasfilm. His kids didn't want to take it over. If Disney didn't buy Lucasfilm in 2012, the franchise would've slowed died off like it almost did prior to the start of the SWEU in 1991.
George started mulling retirement around 2009/2010 and there was no real plan for the future of Lucasfilm. His kids didn't want to take it over. If Disney didn't buy Lucasfilm in 2012, the franchise would've slowed died off like it almost did prior to the start of the SWEU in 1991.
It was a lot of fun. Super short, but a unique experience. I would do it again.
I wouldn't even go that far, personally. Out of the four movies, we only really have one bad one in the form of The Last Jedi. The other three hover somewhere between okay but uninspired and pretty fun. Considering both the original trilogy and prequel trilogy had one great movie, one okay movie and one bad movie each, Star Wars since Disney bought it is kinda... par for the course. It's nowhere near as inventive or creative as it used to be, but it's not like the quality is particularly worse.
Beyond just the movies there are multiple TV shows, novels and video games in production right now, potentially starting what could be the most expansive period of Star Wars as a franchise yet. As long as they get fresh ideas in the door, Star Wars could become much bigger than a franchise we get three movies out of every fifteen to twenty years.
It's totally worth it.
But the problem I see is that Disney is still holding back and not giving what the fans actually want to see. They are playing it way too safe.
They keep retreading on stories and within certain time periods, instead of giving us anything new and innovative in the universe.
They are sticking with what is "familiar" and are so scared to really branch out into untapped territories in the universe.
But the problem I see is that Disney is still holding back and not giving what the fans actually want to see. They are playing it way too safe.
They keep retreading on stories and within certain time periods, instead of giving us anything new and innovative in the universe.
They are sticking with what is "familiar" and are so scared to really branch out into untapped territories in the universe.
Eh... I think it's a little silly that we equate hollywood blockbusters to "media culture" in the first place.
People saying "you killed my childhood" in response to a $200 million budgeted sequel to a science fiction franchise from 3 decades ago honestly surprises me.
Like, what do you expect? Some auteur genius is going to take a decades old franchise into some innovative new direction? Nobody takes over a license like Star Wars because a director has a a story-based vision for how the films should be made.
It's a corporate acquisition and the films are corporate products. There's no culture there.
I don't see what is wrong with this though. Good things should come to an end.
A sequel trilogy featuring the original cast was always going to make bank. Rogue One is the only movie I can really give her credit for, in terms of taking a risk and having it pay off.
She's not terrible at her job, but Lucasfilm desperately needs its own Kevin Feige, and again, she ain't it.
In 20 years, The Last Jedi will be rightfully as beloved as ESB (since the fandom was whining the same exact way about ESB, except no "ooh SJW's" stuff), and people will be pointing to Plinkett reviews of The Last Jedi like people currently point to critic reviews of ESB.
In 20 years there will be as many Rian-directed SW films as there are George-directed SW films!
Hang on, what now? Just to clarify real quick, I'm not saying "you killed my childhoood" or anything like that in any capacity; I'm a little baffled that you somehow got that out of what I posted. I was super into Star Wars as a kid, but am pretty dispassionate about it now. There's all kinds of media I like and don't like attached to stuff I grew up with, but I agree that the "you killed my childhood" notion is a silly sentiment spouted way too often by silly people.
Now, this, I emphatically disagree with. Pop culture is an essential part of American culture; in many ways pop culture is modern American culture. The notion of a single entity owning all of Disney and Pixar's characters, all of Star Wars, all of Marvel and now Fox properties such as The Simpsons, Alien, the X-Files and dozens of other iconic TV properties (Hulu will be next under the umbrella) puts one corporation in control of a really significant percentage of mainstream popular culture. Now, I don't expect every film to be made by some visionary auteur strictly for love of the work (I work, for the record, as a full-time filmmaker), but I also don't think that extreme media consolidation is good for any art form, or good for culture at large.
Yes, the reality is that many films are corporate products. Those films are still made, to be fair, by large groups of human creatives. But when formerly diverse creative properties are all controlled by a singular corporate interest, the emphasis falls much more on the "product"; when the cultural playing field is restricted to monoliths like Disney and AT&T (who recently acquired Time Warner), there's less chance of anything human-scaled surviving.
I got the perfect palette cleanser with TFA after those godawful prequels, some great side stories with Rogue One and Solo, and the best Star Wars movie since Empire with TLJ. All of which my entire family and I attended in the theater, loved, and the memories of which we will cherish years from now.
And we're getting Star Wars land on top of it, with even more exciting projects in the future, including RJ's trilogy, the GOT duo's project, and The Mandalorian.
Yeah. It was totally fucking worth it.
And we're getting Star Wars land on top of it, with even more exciting projects in the future, including RJ's trilogy, the GOT duo's project, and The Mandalorian.
Yeah. It was totally fucking worth it.
Yea, about that. It's Monday and I'm grumpy. You can pretty much ignore everything I wrote in my post.
TLJ is the second best movie.
Rogue one is pure class, solo is fun
The 4 movies so far box office plus merch and licencing?
Um yeah..
I like you
Rogue one is pure class, solo is fun
The 4 movies so far box office plus merch and licencing?
Um yeah..
I like you
They spent everything within a few years like a poor person that won the lottery. But I think there is a lot of good stuff to come, hopefully they don't force things out again (honestly, I thought Solo was OK but it didn't need to exist. And the first 2/3 of R1 were just a rushed mess). The Mandolorian should be good and I am hoping a new trilogy not tied down to old ideas will be good.
The worst part about the new SW films though are the fans, specifically the vocal minority hating on TFA and moreso TLJ. Can't believe how the vocal minority have ruined any online discussions about it.
The worst part about the new SW films though are the fans, specifically the vocal minority hating on TFA and moreso TLJ. Can't believe how the vocal minority have ruined any online discussions about it.
Congrats, the prequels have worldbuilding, more than most of the rest of the franchise...that doesn't make them good.
The sequels have better writing, acting, directing, and that's more important to a good movie than how many planets they establish or how much we learn about Republic politics. Those things are the gravy, not the meat.
Maybe we'd have loved the prequels if George stuck to being an idea man and let others handle the other aspects, but he didn't and the films suffered bad for it.
User Banned (permanent): Misogyny; account still in junior phase
Here's my theory on what has happened to Star Wars without being too political. By the way, Solo is my fav Disney Star Wars. It was brilliant.
When Kathleen Kennedy took over the brand there was a decision made that it needed to shift its appeal over to women and girls. My guess is that the Marvel Avengers brand was seen as appealing mostly to men and boys and Disney needed something besides Frozen etc that was going to hit that female market. The male fans who have always been with Star Wars will buy whatever has Star Wars branding on it but the women and girls needed to be persuaded to buy also.
A complete shift in focus to women happened to Star Wars, from female leads in the movies to a Forces of Destiny cartoon that focused only on female characters. After the Force Awakens had wide appeal with men and women they saw the plan as working and went full throttle with widening the appeal to women and girls since the male demographic was buying everything as usual.
What slowly happened was that the core fanbase was slowly getting left out in the cold with this new shift in focus. Finally with the Last Jedi which was a sort of Twilight in Space with some other things thrown in and a completely mishandled Luke Skywalker to appeal to the base, it all came crashing down. The Women and Girls never bought the toys they were supposed too and the core base (men?) didn't want them either. Now they are in deep trouble. The Women and Girls have left or moved on (though a few remain to ship Rey and Kylo) and the core fanbase is beyond pissed because the products of the movies and merchandise were not created to appeal to them at all. At this point Disney has to shift to a "stories for everyone" instead of "stories for girls" and hope that the core fans come back.
When Kathleen Kennedy took over the brand there was a decision made that it needed to shift its appeal over to women and girls. My guess is that the Marvel Avengers brand was seen as appealing mostly to men and boys and Disney needed something besides Frozen etc that was going to hit that female market. The male fans who have always been with Star Wars will buy whatever has Star Wars branding on it but the women and girls needed to be persuaded to buy also.
A complete shift in focus to women happened to Star Wars, from female leads in the movies to a Forces of Destiny cartoon that focused only on female characters. After the Force Awakens had wide appeal with men and women they saw the plan as working and went full throttle with widening the appeal to women and girls since the male demographic was buying everything as usual.
What slowly happened was that the core fanbase was slowly getting left out in the cold with this new shift in focus. Finally with the Last Jedi which was a sort of Twilight in Space with some other things thrown in and a completely mishandled Luke Skywalker to appeal to the base, it all came crashing down. The Women and Girls never bought the toys they were supposed too and the core base (men?) didn't want them either. Now they are in deep trouble. The Women and Girls have left or moved on (though a few remain to ship Rey and Kylo) and the core fanbase is beyond pissed because the products of the movies and merchandise were not created to appeal to them at all. At this point Disney has to shift to a "stories for everyone" instead of "stories for girls" and hope that the core fans come back.
I would argue that they needed to run pretty much the schedule they have if they're going to move into an expanded universe setting after completing the Skywalker arc but also with Rogue One and Solo in the idea pipeline.
The relevance of Rogue One is directly within the Skywalker arc. Solo is a side story for a central character in that arc.
At the same time they can't really go doing a ton of world building outside the Skywalker arc when the vast majority of people want and expect the conclusion to that arc.
They needed to close it out first to clear the decks, to have access to the original core cast, and to basically button up the entire unfinished 7-9 issue hanging out there.
With Ep. 9 they'll have done so. What they do after that is the real test of how Disney is going to manage the brand.
As for if it was worth it? An unequivocal "yes" unless your only concern with regards to Star Wars is protecting a commercial product's perceived legacy decades after its release, even after the creator dropped three consecutive turds in that punch bowl a little over a decade ago.
The extended universe was a convoluted mess and swerved too far into fan service territory for its own good. A reboot was needed.
Someone needed to finish 7-9 while the core cast was still alive. Disney is doing just that.
Disney has made absurd stacks of cash so they've more than recouped their original investment.
Solo and Rogue One are solid at worst side stories in the universe, building out the circle of events surrounding the Skywalker arc.
I just don't see the problems here. Sure, EA has done shit with the games license but with the prequels we saw a shit ton of crappy games like pod racer shoved out the door too. Star Wars hadn't been well serviced in video games for a long time before Disney.
The process has been very similar to Disney's utilization of the Marvel stable of IPs. Not with quite as much universal acclaim, though I'd argue that comes from comic fans being more flexible in accepting narratives outside their own preferred head canon than SW zealots. The IPs are being serviced with quality production and, generally, a really good end product. I look forward to their next slate of projects. Hopefully their video games initiatives begin to pay off equally well to Marvel's Spider-Man project soon as well.
After TLJ and Solo, my Star Wars hype is at an all-time low, so no (for now). Interested to see where IX goes.
TFA had a female lead because they decided to make it more appealing to women and girls? TLJ was "Twilight in Space"?
Jesus, dude.
Here's My THeOrY ON WHaT hAs hApPEned TO sTar WarS WIthOuT BEinG tOO POlItICaL.
A shady smuggler who's used to life on the run and a former princess in charge of a rebel militia were never going to be ideal parents. Kylo's great. The most interesting character of this trilogy so far.
Well if Kylo made you happy, then I can take some of my regret back. :)
My Star Wars-loving heart is a little bit more at peace now.
Alright dude, you clearly have thought a lot about this theory of yours. I would genuinely love to hear how The Last Jedi is sort of like Twilight in Space. Please explain this to me.