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Was it?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 2,185 69.7%
  • No.

    Votes: 948 30.3%

  • Total voters
    3,133

Fatmanp

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,438
One of the big things Sony is lacking right now is a charismatic/engaging speaker. I just can't stay engaged with with Cerny when he speaks and I understood a large part of what he was saying yesterday. When I looked at the Youtube stream had over 600k viewers and I cannot imagine even 75% of that number had a clue what was being said. What made it worse is that MS came out a few days before and allowed DF to break the information down into easy to understand chunks for the average consumer.
 

AgonyRon

Member
Nov 27, 2017
688
Actually, I think most of the negative talk right now is about the numbers and hard numbers on paper is probably worse than having eager fans frustrated for a lack of information. As you point out the hype is real though, so maybe timing could have been better but they did mix it in with some good news so the reactions are not 100% negative.

Serious question, how would you suggest they reveal the specs?
The bad news it not just about the specs. It's completely about the strategy. Im fine with how they revealed the specs, but their messaging is weak. Specs are specs and if they are lower, you have to bring some other stuff to the table that will make gamers go crazy. Games, tech demos, giving examples that are not 10 year old games. It's just that MS is giving gamers a positive vibe for the last 3 months, after allready getting a lot of positive vibe from Xbox One X and GamePass.

Sony is marketleader and fans were hoping for a powerful message. Besides waiting very long with their info, the only mistake here is inviting hype hungry fans to the GDC party. Even the guy from Guerilla made it seem like it was gonna be quite something. For the average consumer it was a disaster and now there will be a lot of memes and jokes about Sony's GDC talk yesterday.

So tonight it's Microsoft's turn to do their GDC talk. Let's see the difference.
 

Fredrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,003
I've had this thought before, but Sony knows they'll end up being the best selling console again and don't really care much about marketing/presentation anymore. They'll probably only switch their tone if the PS5 underperforms but that's very unlikely as they've had decades of goodwill at this point.
Not likely, Sony knows how much word of month matters, and if multiplats run better on the Xbox and Microsoft's first party studios starts to deliver they'll be in a less than ideal scenario.
 

Vintage

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,294
Europe
It wasnt meant to be a reveal, just a deeper tech dive into their mindset when it comes to building the PS5 from an hardware engineer point of view.
Yes I understand, but with PS4 they managed to do reveal first, and tech dive later, for those interested.
I guess Sony is not ready yet and don't have enough content for a full event now.
 

EssBeeVee

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,764
I'm sure the virus affected their flow in actually revealing the System.


Also road to ps5 can still be applied to this talk. It's not like the system just magically appeara.. you start somewhere.
 

Listai

50¢
Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,669
It's a huge blunder in the sense that it really should have been preceded by a three to five minute sizzle reel of the console and some games or features.
 

AgonyRon

Member
Nov 27, 2017
688
I've had this thought before, but Sony knows they'll end up being the best selling console again and don't really care much about marketing/presentation anymore. They'll probably only switch their tone if the PS5 underperforms but that's very unlikely as they've had decades of goodwill at this point.
This doesnt make sense at all. Why would a market leader company not care about marketing. Yeah PS5 is gonna sell well, but they'll loose a big piece of the market if they dont care about marketing. Decades of goodwill is nice, but teenagers dont care about decades of good news and will see the positive vibe around MS for the last years.

You can not tell me that Sony would be fine with loosing a lot of potential consumers, because the dont care about marketing.
 

Iron Eddie

Banned
Nov 25, 2019
9,812
Yes I understand, but with PS4 they managed to do reveal first, and tech dive later, for those interested.
I guess Sony is not ready yet and don't have enough content for a full event now.
This is what I don't get, rumor was Sony had dev kits out earlier than Microsoft yet Sony appears to be less ready for a Fall release. Everything from BC support to having external storage available is all up in the air. Not even a glimpse of what the PS5 looks like.
 

AgonyRon

Member
Nov 27, 2017
688
They haven't revealed the console/games yet. This is all just a preamble for enthusiasts, and frustration born out of impatience.

They haven't fucked up at all in terms of hardware/price, it's not even close to Xbox One launch period which fucked up on almost all fronts.
I believe Xbox One went wrong, not just for the presentation. It was a long time of bad narrative, not just the event. Sony used that against them at the E3 after that, continueing the bad narrative. The positive vibe around MS started with their BC plans and later with GamePass and Xbox One X. MS was not clear enough about why you would want their OG Xbox One. Memes, YT videos, less powerful, it all worked against MS. MS made the mistake to think people automaticly wanted their product without really hyping gamers up.

Check the infuencing YT people and see how they got to play with all the parts of XsX and the features and how their reaction now is around Sony's GDC talk. Today it Microsoft's turn and will see if that is also very boring. MS could do a parody like Sony did in 2013, but i doubt they will go that low.
 

AgonyRon

Member
Nov 27, 2017
688
I don't think anyone should be worried about games on the PS5, Sony always delivers on that front.

The Xbox One X, despite being the most powerful console, didn't really pull up any trees.
It created a lot of goodwill (X enhanced games from OG Xbox to Xbox One) and a positive narration. It wasnt suppose to defeat Sony current gen, but together with GamePass it is easy to see that MS was creating this positive narrative and is now delivering on it.

Again, that doesnt mean PS5 will sell bad, it means that MS will take some market back.
 

Rödskägg

Member
Jul 19, 2018
27
For the past couple of months I wasn't worried about Sony's silence concerning all things PS5 and all the event cancellations pre-Covid19, because I was expecting them to come out with a bang at their PS Meeting, but sadly nothing of the sort happened yet.

That GDC talk should've been announced clearly as a GDC presentation mostly aimed at developers and such, I knew it was just that, because I read up on it. But those who didn't and expected something more like the PS4 reveal were of course disappointed.

If Sony doesn't come out with a banging PS5 event showing off the console, the controller and many games, then I can safely say that they lost most of their marketing genius from the PS4 era...but there's still time for them to come out on top.

I think they wanted people to talk about it, that's why they announced it publicly but they could have made it clear it was a GDC talk, I agree.

Disagree. You show them what the machine does and hold the spec sheet release until AFTER the presentation. Most would be talking about how great the games look instead of the specs.

Withholding that information until after the reveal would be seen as disingenuous and would by itself provoke negative reactions. I think the plan is to get the bad stuff out now so they can have a positive vibe going forward after the reveal event.

The bad news it not just about the specs. It's completely about the strategy. Im fine with how they revealed the specs, but their messaging is weak. Specs are specs and if they are lower, you have to bring some other stuff to the table that will make gamers go crazy. Games, tech demos, giving examples that are not 10 year old games. It's just that MS is giving gamers a positive vibe for the last 3 months, after allready getting a lot of positive vibe from Xbox One X and GamePass.

Sony is marketleader and fans were hoping for a powerful message. Besides waiting very long with their info, the only mistake here is inviting hype hungry fans to the GDC party. Even the guy from Guerilla made it seem like it was gonna be quite something. For the average consumer it was a disaster and now there will be a lot of memes and jokes about Sony's GDC talk yesterday.

So tonight it's Microsoft's turn to do their GDC talk. Let's see the difference.

I think they will save the best stuff for the reveal. They did give some good things for people to talk about which, in my opinion, was the right move.

I didn't follow their messaging for the talk beforehand but if they really hyped it up, as you say, then yes, that was a mistake.
It could be that MS simply have a better product to offer which puts Sony in a difficult position, hence why they seem slightly awkward.
We have yet to see the most important things though: games and price.
 

Laziness

Member
Apr 19, 2018
587
Wait, am I missing something or today we'll get something from MS ("their GDC talk")? It have popped multiple times in this thread already, but there's 0 info about that in the internet, what the hell? I thought MS have already done their GDC things earlier last week, with the XSX specs and short demo-videos, and that's it.
P.S. Ok, I guess fellas were referring to the DirectX 12 presentation happening soon, my bad, but then it dosen't look like MS thing at all and I doubt we'll get any new XSX info there.
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 23046

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
6,876
It created a lot of goodwill (X enhanced games from OG Xbox to Xbox One) and a positive narration. It wasnt suppose to defeat Sony current gen, but together with GamePass it is easy to see that MS was creating this positive narrative and is now delivering on it.

Again, that doesnt mean PS5 will sell bad, it means that MS will take some market back.
I have no doubt about MS pleasing their customers, but before knowing pricing, (worldwilde) availability, models (Series S?) and launch games, I find such statement a bit precipitated because it would mean not only to catch the marker leader, but do better than him.
 

Stef

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,420
Rome, Italy, Planet Earth
Consider this... regardless of the comparison with the Xbox Series X hardware spec - i guess it is clear that this "battle" now is much harder for Sony than in the previous generation - Sony needed to build anticipation about PS5, possibly moving the focus from the brute power to something else.

I think they thought about using a tecnique altready succesfully used in previous genenerations of PlayStation, especially PlayStation 2 and 3: the names.

Cell... Emotion Engine... those were terms which transcended the simple technical meaning and got embraced by their fans. You did not talk about gigaflops back then, you talked about the somehow mystical things that the Emotion Engine could do. You can't compare the PS3 specs because... because Cell. Cell was his own thing.

Now they are doing this in a more granular way. Look around, there is already people talking about the Tempest Engine, they mentioned the Geometry Engine and so on. They shifted focus from the teraflops to more specific (or even "abstract") terminology and this could do wonders for PlayStation 5, especially on the non-specialized press.

So no, I really do not think that they made a "marketing blunder". This was a deliberate move to shake things and gain mediatic ground over Microsoft.
 

Bansai

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 28, 2017
11,310
This video should've been called "A long stop on the barren road to PS5".
 

AgonyRon

Member
Nov 27, 2017
688
I have no doubt about MS pleasing their customers, but before knowing pricing, (worldwilde) availability, models (Series S?) and launch games, I find such statement a bit precipitated because it would mean not only to catch the marker leader, but do better than him.
Im not saying they will catch the market leader, but i do think theyll come closer than current gen. Again, the narrative on YT is shaping a bad vibe around PS5. That wont mean theyll 'lose' next gen, but dont underestimate a gen reset. After Ps2 it seemed like nobody wanted to have an Xbox.
 

pagrab

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,005
Check the infuencing YT people and see how they got to play with all the parts of XsX and the features and how their reaction now is around Sony's GDC talk. Today it Microsoft's turn and will see if that is also very boring. MS could do a parody like Sony did in 2013, but i doubt they will go that low.
Yeah, I don't think they will do a parody because it would have been too mean to Mark Cerny, who is not to blame here (the marketing team is).
 

Zaki2407

Member
May 6, 2018
1,570
I knew they will be talking only about the specs and technical stuff when I read the twitter message, and yes they did.
But presentation wise, I think they can do better than that. It feels so cheap. Fully respect for Cerny, but whoever the "director" of the video need to do a better job.
The speaker only stand firmed in one place without ever moving.
The background set was boring. Only a blue color filled with PS button symbol.
The foreground silhouette was unnecessary and distracting.
The presentation slide design was very basic.
So, content wise, we finally know the specs. There are still many things that Sony need to show (UI, Games, Box design, Controller, price etc).
Until a theoretically November 2020 release, they still have many chance to improve and do a proper "reveal"
 

thenexus6

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,332
UK
As a marketing thing, yeah it was a total dud. It was always going to be a dude reading complicated specs and technologies. Sony have done this in the past, but majority of people expected a cool sizzle reel of games and flashing lights. This was the total opposite.

Sony should have done the cool reveal first, then this tech focused talk afterwards. Things will 180 later on, but right now not a good look for Sony.
 

KeRaSh

I left my heart on Atropos
Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,270
Jim Ryan: I don't get it. Why are people so upset that we didn't show anything consumer related before this GDC talk? We showed off a bunch of games during the February reveal, didn't we? Was that not enough?

Intern: Sir, that presentation hasn't happened, yet. We had to delay it last-minute.

Jim Ryan: What? Why? Who made that decision?

Intern: You, sir.

Jim Ryan: Really? Huh... I guess that explains why Klee kept calling me dozens of times.

Intern: *sighs*

All jokes aside, I enjoyed the presentation quite a bit. It's always fascinating to see how the systems actually work under the hood. Now I'm even more excited to see the tech being shown off during actual game footage.
 

Nintendo

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,387
I think it's smart that they've not shown games especially since the specs generated negative feedback. Later, when they reveal games and show off consumer focused features, all the negativity will be forgotten and it will be an all-positive reveal event. Hopefully.
 

AgonyRon

Member
Nov 27, 2017
688
I think it's smart that they've not shown games especially since the specs generated negative feedback. Later, when they reveal games and show off consumer focused features, all the negativity will be forgotten and it will be an all-positive reveal event. Hopefully.
Why would a company want a negative vibe around their new product? It really doesnt make sense to think that is smart.
 

Nintendo

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,387
Why would a company want a negative vibe around their new product? It really doesnt make sense to think that is smart.

They don't but when they show games and other features, they don't want the XSX comparisons and low spec talk to overshadow the game reveals. They got that over with.
 

KingdomKey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,106
They could perhaps have added more clarification on what it was going to be about, to lower expectations.

Personally it's exactly in line with what I was expecting. An in depth look into what has improved from PS4 other than better processing power.

There's still time to unveil more about the console. I'm expecting them bring out the big guns by June-September.
 

cyport

Member
Nov 8, 2017
207
I think Sony are holding off from a reveal as they want to be the last to reveal. That way consumers will have a "fresher" reveal of the PS5 compared to the Xbox Series X. Additionally there is no need to showcase anything if we cannot preorder. I would prefer an Apple like approach where the product is revealed and pre orders are available immediately with a short wait. The Road to PS5 video was unfortunately impacted by the virus as they wanted a GDC talk. Ultimately, promoting this on Twitter and creating hype did them no favours as the average consumer was expecting a console reveal and some games.

Marketing is going to be a big factor in the run up to the launch and it seems Sony are holding off from any big reveal or campaign until we get closer to launch. I expect an event like the PS4 reveal but way closer to launch with more good news (better list for BC and unannounced features) with a strong marketing campaign to follow. You'll be sick of the YouTube adverts come this winter!
 

AgonyRon

Member
Nov 27, 2017
688
They don't but when they show games and other features, they don't want the XSX comparisons and low spec talk to overshadow the game reveals. They got that over with.
They could have just shown games in earlier months, without saying anything about power. Then still, they can bring bad news a lot better than this.
 

Deleted member 9305

Oct 26, 2017
4,064
Maybe it was a bit too technical for some folk, but I enjoyed how design decisions were explained. It's clear now, that Sony is applying tech in very clever and unique ways. Will everything come together? Do I trust Mark Cerny? Hell yeah
 

EVIL

Senior Concept Artist
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
2,783
Yes I understand, but with PS4 they managed to do reveal first, and tech dive later, for those interested.
I guess Sony is not ready yet and don't have enough content for a full event now.
True, Neither is MS really. They just already have their shell finished and are showing off their features in bite sized chunks. They did this from a different more effective angle in my opinion. I guess we have to wait for both to arrive at a point where they want to talk content. Its just with sony we will get everything at once, and wish MS we already know a bunch more.

I am so curious what sony will do with their design, and I hope they will let DF etc. do a hands on at some point, but I think their hands are tied now with corona. (MS flew people over a month or so ago, before shit hit the fan.)
 

Dazraell

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
1,843
Poland
The only issue is they should have hosted stuff like this after former reveal. GDC talks were always directed towards developers and Cerny's panel served its purpose.
 

Nostradamus

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,280
It's a mistake that they just published this talk before providing a more casual reveal similar to what MS did a few days ago (although MS also had the box and the controller to show). They could even just do another Wired article before publishing the video. Having said that, it doesn't really matter in the end since the majority is just going to read the specs in some random article.
 

Doby

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,596
It's a stumble out of the gates for sure, but nothing that wont be fixed by the time the next event comes around. It was far from damaging anyway, no one is going to make their purchasing decision on the fact Sony introduced the PS5 with some 'boring' presentation.
 
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Nessus

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,924
In the scheme of things I don't think it's going to matter at all. No one is going to remember this. It'll come down to price and games, as it always does.

That said, I am surprised that the PS5 won't have full backwards compatibility with even just PS4 at launch (I was naively hoping that they'd announce full backwards compatibility with all previous PlayStation generations). I just sorta expected at this point all 3 major console manufacturers were going to have full backwards compatibility with at least their previous console from here on out, but apparently not.

Now I just wanna see what they're gonna do with PSVR/PSVR 2.
 

Deleted member 60992

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 31, 2019
287
Because, on paper, the PS5 has lower performance than the XSX, it will absolutely get a negative reaction. The question is, when and how should they reveal it.
I think they want to avoid a "but have you seen titanfall" situation. When they show the games they want people to talk about the games and not teraflops.

You're confusing trolls with a negative reaction. They way Sony actually did it yesterday is what caused the negative reaction.

Most of the people who are negative about the specs of it really don't care about what's on the paper and are only talking about it because Sony didn't give them what they wanted to talk about which was gameplay of some game running on the PS5.

People wanted what Sony did for the PS4 reveal. Cerny doing what he did was fine but Sony didn't even bother throwing bread crumbs at its audience. There's was no "hey, you can expect gameplay or more news at this date or hey look forward to this." Just Sony going radio silent again and people don't like it when it feels like Microsoft seems to be on their game this time round.
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,663
You're confusing trolls with a negative reaction. They way Sony actually did it yesterday is what caused the negative reaction.

Most of the people who are negative about the specs of it really don't care about what's on the paper and are only talking about it because Sony didn't give them what they wanted to talk about which was gameplay of some game running on the PS5.

People wanted what Sony did for the PS4 reveal. Cerny doing what he did was fine but Sony didn't even bother throwing bread crumbs at its audience. There's was no "hey, you can expect gameplay or more news at this date or hey look forward to this." Just Sony going radio silent again and people don't like it when it feels like Microsoft seems to be on their game this time round.
Here's how much Sony bungled it: Cerny didn't even show examples of his Secret Sauce Drive.
 

Dark_Emil

Member
Apr 5, 2018
135
And here is where we have to disagree. They don't want any negative buzz at all when they reveal the games and the actual console. Better to make people talk about it now and get it out of their systems.


The goal is not having ANY negative buzz whatsoever. It's common sense that you only reveal bad news if you have something to counter them. For many months Sony has had nothing but bad, awful news. This creates awareness in fans and the word spreads fast around the internet. People are discussing specs only because there are no games to talk about. By the looks of it, Sony is not going to announce anything else till june-july. If you let people be convinced that PS5 sucks they will not change their minds once the proper reveal takes place. It's just too long for Sony not giving any exciting news to their fans or potential buyers. This is the opposite of how you properly manage brand reputation.

Sony is competing with the good vibe Microsoft is generating and Halo as flagship game for the XBOX launch. The behaviour of their execs is borderline negligent.. They seem not to remember that this generation was won because Don Mattrick screwed things up the same way they are doing at this moment.
 

Border

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,859
I guess "blunder" is a pretty good way to put it. It was a bad idea to release this information at the height of the virus panic. It was a bad idea to try and keep people engaged in an hour-long presentation that was so thin on actual games & media.

It reminded me a lot of nVidia's tiresome and overlong press conference for the RTX lineup. Funny when you think that just showing off a PS5 logo at CES got a better response.
 

Doffen

Member
Oct 28, 2017
887
Pushing a dev talk on your consumer focused social media platforms isn't the best move.
This presentation was blasted on the official PlayStation Twitter profile, Facebook page and YouTube channel.

So yeah, it was a marketing blunder, but it probably won't effect PlayStation 5 at all.
 

Parenegade

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,589
If you don't think it was a blunder you're likey a Sony fan. Ever company has marketing blunders, Microsoft's Xbox One messaging is legendary as one big marketing blunder, Nintendo...don't even get me started.

It's an obvious blunder. Will it matter at all in the grand scheme of things? No.
 

ANDS

Banned
Jun 25, 2019
566
The conference was LITERALLY what Sony said it would be. It is ridiculous to try and suggest that Sony's marketing team or their PS5 rollout strategy is flawed because folks are disappointed at not getting what they assumed would be there.
 

Indelible

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,710
Canada
It was a little dry but I think people are exaggerating how bad it was, they did a very similar showcase for the PS4 and that turned out fine.
 

The Lord of Cereal

#REFANTAZIO SWEEP
Member
Jan 9, 2020
9,672
Here's the thing, I personally enjoyed the talk and thought it was fine especially for what it was. However, they really didn't market the announce as a more developer focused thing (PS Japan did, and their wording hinted at that, and a couple insiders pointed that out, but the average consumer just saw "cool, a look at PS5") and that's where they failed. Not just that, but their messaging on power is also not going to go over well ("oh, you load into a game a second or two faster. Cool") because that's what Sony and Xbox have been focusing on. And that's not even mentioning the backwards compatibility wording in the official blogpost which has lead many to believe only top 100, or that not even all the top 100 will be playable. It's a blunder to the general consumer (not so much to enthusiast) and the ramifications of it are impossible to predict right now, but are entirely based on how long it takes for Sony to correct the messaging on the SSD and backwards compatibility. If they wait to long or even don't fix the messaging, they're shouting themselves in the foot unless there's platform parity on multiplatform games
 

unapersson

Member
Oct 27, 2017
661
If you don't think it was a blunder you're likey a Sony fan. Ever company has marketing blunders, Microsoft's Xbox One messaging is legendary as one big marketing blunder, Nintendo...don't even get me started.

It's an obvious blunder. Will it matter at all in the grand scheme of things? No.

That's exactly why it's not a blunder, at least the specs are out there now. We have a better idea of the capabilities and know which bottlenecks they're gunning for technically. Just curious what the planned window is for showing more.
 

Parenegade

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,589
That's exactly why it's not a blunder, at least the specs are out there now. We have a better idea of the capabilities and know which bottlenecks they're gunning for technically. Just curious what the planned window is for showing more.

Blunder - a stupid or careless mistake.

Sounds like a blunder to me.​