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Oct 25, 2017
41,368
Miami, FL
It's always gonna be an asymmetric comparison though. The FFVII parts are standalone games. FFVII OG can be beaten in the same time as Part I.

Also, we have tons of data already. We know the how the battle system works. We know how the main characters are developing, meaning their personalities. We know our boss battles are handled. We know the philosophy behind town design. We know how dungeons are structured.
Certainly. But in the final analysis, it still feels like it is not reasonable or even healthy to attempt to grade this product in its totality before we've seen the conclusion of the work.

Until we've seen the vision reached on hardware that can actually achieve it. Or, that's how I feel about it. This whole converation seems incredibly premature. Anyway, carry on.
 

cvbas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,166
Brazil
It's disingenuous to call this episodic at this point, really. It's a new multi-game franchise.

I absolutely love it. As someone with no attachment to the original (only played like 45% of it in 2014), I didn't find it to be bloated at all. I loved how they developed the characters and the direction they took with the story is genius, really. So much better and so much more interesting than a straight 1:1 remake of a 25 year old videogame could ever be.
 
Oct 31, 2017
229
feels weird, not gonna lie. Would have rather waited but I think they knew they'd make out like a bandit if it was sold in pieces. Not to say I blame em. Must have cost several times more than the original to produce even this first entry.
 

Mansa Mufasa

Member
Jun 17, 2019
1,349
Toronto
I was a fan of the announcement and im an even bigger fan of it now. There was no way this thing would have been delivered if they didn't break it up and im glad they did because SE was being stifled creatively by all the baggage from the PS360Wii gen. They had to get KH3, FF7R and FFXV(VSXIII) out of the way.
 

Mansa Mufasa

Member
Jun 17, 2019
1,349
Toronto
I'd probably be less angry about it if they were upfront about it from the get go. I still would've bought the game but adjusted my expectations accordingly instead of feeling deceived by this fan fiction nonsense.

To be fair, they were very upfront about changes coming to the narrative. From the interviews, to the trailers they were explicit in it being a different take on the FFVII narrative.
 

Valkerion

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,231
I don't take it as serious as others and I really, REALLY enjoyed what was put out this year but I would have rather a full remake in one shot personally. The scale they are going for though makes it impossible to do though. It feels like this remake will be 20 parts long at this pace when honestly I might drop out if its looking like it will be more than 3 parts, depending where part 2 drops off at.
 

Bigkrev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,307
I mean, it's not really a remake, it's more of a sequel than anything else, so it's fine? It's not an incomplete feeling game or anything
 
Nov 23, 2017
4,992
Hell yeah. Loved it. If I can play three meaty games worth of content in this world and the next 2 improve upon the awesomeness of this first one, then absolutely!

As purist of the original game and a hater of the Compilation, I freaking love Remake.
 

Canas Renvall

Banned
Mar 4, 2018
2,535
It would take like 10+ years to develop. Splitting it into parts was the only feasible option.
Taking 10+ years to develop is exactly what it's doing though, parts or not...

As for me, I never liked the idea and I still don't. I bought it and enjoyed it a lot, I'm way more excited about the ending than everyone else cause I don't hold VII on a pedestal (honestly not even in my top 5 FFs), but even then I dislike how they stretched the story so thin and then added a bunch of useless filler to try and justify the price tag. I'm all for expanding Midgar, but there's such a thing as too much. The game could be elevated by cutting 10-15 hours of junk.
 

The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,426
It's not episodic, Remake Part 1 is a perfectly complete story in its own right, and I find it superior to the same part of the original game. I love what they're doing -- I just hope they keep the same team (writers, choreographers, voice cast) for the next part. It's so good.
It's not a perfectly complete story, it ends on a big cliffhanger where Sephiroth's essense is free from the Whisper Harbinger, he absorbs Meteor and takes control of the Whispers, god knows how powerful that makes him. Also Zack is apparently alive.

Hypothetically it'd be more stand alone, complete story if it was just Avalanche defeating President Shinra.
 

The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,426
I mean, it's not really a remake, it's more of a sequel than anything else, so it's fine? It's not an incomplete feeling game or anything
In my opinion, it's going to be a faux sequel or whatever you can call it, where Aerith has to die to restore the balance of destiny blah blah please cry.. and events have to be reset, for the greater good.
 

dreamstation

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,649
Australia
Probably for them as they get to charge full price several times rather than deliver a complete product and only charge the once. This is why I didn't buy the game at launch. I only just picked it up over the Christmas break when Big W here in Australia had it for $29 VS $99 at launch.
 

Kaizer

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,093
I mean, it actually came out was & pretty goooooooood, so I'd say yes it was the right decision.
 

The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,426
It didnt bother me and other users on this board im sure, as we are a little more in the know than the average consumer who is not reading enthusiast boards.

However, I do find it a little dirty that no-where in the title does it list that FF7:REMAKE is not the entire, contained story and is expected to be multiple releases. Even the cover art is a direct remake of the PS1 cover art. I can see it being confusing and aggravating if people arent sure what they are getting into.
It was like MGS2 really, putting Snake on the cover. But in my opinion, Kojima does that stuff better. I think it's because despite all the messy meta narratives, the villians The Patriots, Solidus Snake, still explained what they were after. Sephiroth just rambles on. (Yes I get having some mystery, but he's just annoying now)
 

Surakian

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
10,822
Yeah, I think in the end it was a great idea. I personally really enjoyed the twist. It was very Toriyama-esque—something I would have expected in the XIII games—and while I hate his writing and directing most of the time, I thought it played out quite well in this "remake".

I can't wait to see more. The game is fun, the story is solid, and it's nice to see them go for something fresh rather than try for a 1:1 remake.
 

Viale

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,614
I was actually one of the people who defended it prior to release. After playing it, I think it was a poor decision for the most part as I was under the impression there would be a lot more stories told that could only work in Midgard. Basically I expected a lot more like chapter 3 and when I realized that's not what the game was, and it instead was just the same Midgard points with slightly more characterization and a lot more crummy dungeons, I was left disappointed and disagreeing with how they went about it.
 

Neiteio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,127
It's not a perfectly complete story, it ends on a big cliffhanger where Sephiroth's essense is free from the Whisper Harbinger, he absorbs Meteor and takes control of the Whispers, god knows how powerful that makes him. Also Zack is apparently alive.

Hypothetically it'd be more stand alone, complete story if it was just Avalanche defeating President Shinra.
Hmm, I don't necessarily consider something incomplete if it ends on a cliffhanger. The emergence of a greater threat at the end is a sequel hook, where the party knows in various ways (Cloud's history with Sephiroth, Aerith's intuition, etc) that Seph is a bad dude they need to track down. But what leads up to that point is a clearly defined adventure escaping from Midgar.

It's impressive how well it works as a standalone story, with more twists and turns than one or two Star Wars movies. Just thinking back on all of the setpieces and boss battles and character moments in Remake gives me the warm fuzzies. I can only hope Part 2 is similarly heartfelt.
 

Rendering...

Member
Oct 30, 2017
19,089
They made an incredible first game that easily justifies a longer stretch in Midgar. So yeah, I'd say it was a great decision to do a multi-game remake.
 

Lothar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,527
Yes. Before I played it, I liked the idea because I think Midgar was the best and most interesting part of FF7, so I loved to spend more time there. And possibly I might only need to get the first episode. After playing it with the way it ended, I'm now much more excited about all the remaining parts too.

Some chapters of FF7R could have really been cut though. It didn't need to be 35 hours. It would have been a better game if 10 hours was just cut.
 

GamerJM

Member
Nov 8, 2017
15,615
Nope. FF7R is a bloated game that spends far too much time on inconsequential parts of the story. The characters get some extra development in a way that's pretty nice but it's not worth the severe pacing issues. I was skeptical when it was announced as episodic and none of my concerns really felt addressed in the final product despite the fact that it ended up being a good game anyways.
 

Yabberwocky

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,256
Breaking FFVIIR into multiple parts was the only way the game would get remade* as a modern cinematic AAA game, but I was still let down by elements of the final product that I feel could have been handled much better considering Part 1 was just set in Midgar.

Keeping Part 1 contained in Midgar was a great idea in theory, but the execution was lacking -- there ended up being a lot of filler (both in story and exploration), when there was a great opportunity to flesh out the city and the characters more. The only genuinely impactful new story beats that were added prior to Chapter 18 was going to Jessie's house with Avalanche, meeting her mother/taking her father's ID, and then stealing a weaker blasting agent so the next explosion wouldn't effect so many people, not knowing it was Shinra's fault all along. We learned more about Jessie as a person, Avalanche, and those living above the plate and working for Shinra, plus finding out about Jessie's father: Jessie thinking her father's soul was basically caught in limbo due to falling into a vat of mako was haunting. That was all really, really great, and gave me hope with what was to come... and then everything felt filler-y after that, with repetitive dungeons and a loop of 'oh, no, is Shinra evil? Yes, they are!' There was potential with the Aerith/Tifa/Cloud graveyard chapter (Aerith's fears of being alone, kids going missing, Tifa's fears of losing Marlene), but it was never fleshed out or explained fully. I had to read supplementary material to understand what was intended for that chapter, including the motivations of the final boss of that chapter, lol. I don't think filler will be an issue with the remake going forward (as there is so much content to cover, even if they remove story content from the original game), but I thought it was a real missed opportunity with Part 1 in that there was so much potential to flesh out characters outside of Cloud, and Midgar itself along with those who lived there, and the remake didn't really do that nearly as much as it could have.

Regarding FFVIIR's level design, it was a step up from FFXIII's linear literal corridor hell, but still felt very small and contained for the scope of Midgar -- it reminded me a lot of the scale of FFXIII-2 and LR, and I'm sure there is a lot of crossover in terms of dev teams. I know it's easier to make a world big with pre-rendered backgrounds, but FFVIIR's Midgar felt very, very small in comparison to the original game... and there was still a lot of literal corridor funneling! I had similar issues with level design with Crisis Core and Dirge of Cerberus, which had a lot of dull and repetitive interiors. Chapter 15 (the climb to the Valkyrie fight) was the only time I found the level design genuinely interesting. I'll be fascinated to see how the level design is handled going forward, but I have to admit I have my concerns.

TL;DR: Whilst I think breaking FFVIIR into multiple parts was the right idea, the execution of Part 1 had issues where I felt it shouldn't have considering the game just takes place in Midgar, particularly the excess filler for both story and dungeons, lack of new story beats, and very contained level design.

* (I still would have happily taken a version of FFVII with a fresh coat of paint on the pre-rendered backgrounds, updated FMVs, new character models for overworld/in combat, etc. We can keep FFVIIR's gameplay, though!)
 

The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,426
Hmm, I don't necessarily consider something incomplete if it ends on a cliffhanger. The emergence of a greater threat at the end is a sequel hook, where the party knows in various ways (Cloud's history with Sephiroth, Aerith's intuition, etc) that Seph is a bad dude they need to track down. But what leads up to that point is a clearly defined adventure escaping from Midgar.

It's impressive how well it works as a standalone story, with more twists and turns than one or two Star Wars movies. Just thinking back on all of the setpieces and boss battles and character moments in Remake gives me the warm fuzzies. I can only hope Part 2 is similarly heartfelt.
Sephiroth isn't a greater threat that just shows up at the end... or like a Thanos teaser. He's the main villian interferring with events, to lure out the Whisper Harbinger, so the party can help free his true essense which is imprisoned within the harbinger. Even in the begininning, he's messing with Cloud and Aerith's positioning. It doesn't work as a stand alone story because we're still not exactly sure what his overall goal is. He's even the last boss but of course he gets away.
 

Jon God

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,288
I'd probably be less angry about it if they were upfront about it from the get go. I still would've bought the game but adjusted my expectations accordingly instead of feeling deceived by this fan fiction nonsense.

T_T

The fact that the best parts of the game are the parts that _are_ a remake is sad. All the added stuff to me, feels like combining nuts and gum.
 

AgeEighty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,383
No. I suspected that stretching the game out into multiple games would involve breaking up the original's brisk pacing and adding filler that feels unnecessary to the story, like what happened with the Hobbit film trilogy. After playing the first game, I think that's precisely what is happening with it.
 

Le Dude

Member
May 16, 2018
4,709
USA
I don't really think so.

The first one has some unecessarry bloat.

Cut that and you'd be at what? A 10-15 hour game?

I think that's fine, but I don't see why it couldn't be a sprawling 60-75 hour RPG. Monolithsoft's games don't have the same level of production quality, certainly, but they're still massive games with lots of varied environments.

They should have scaled back production quality, cut bloat, and make it a single game.

Something like Xenoblade Chronicles 2 with a different artstyle, but with some extra flair from the power of the PS4 would have been more than enough.
 

ShaggsMagoo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,674
FFVIIR is a trash fire of a game all around really, other than it looks and sounds good. Square Enix sold people who wanted a remake of FFVII a bill of goods and then had the gall to preach at them for wanting a remake in the ending. If they didn't want to remake the game, then don't tell people you are remaking the game.
 

Listai

50¢
Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,657
Given the length of the game it fails miserably at expanding or exploring Midgar in any meaningful way.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,240
It was the only way doing FF7 with this level of production value was feasible. FF7R more than justifies itself as a standalone game, so it was the right move.
 

Chumunga64

Member
Jun 22, 2018
14,237
I really like the "a straight remake will take ten years!" posts

from announcement to the release of the first part which is all midgar was five years
 

lusca_bueno

Member
Nov 23, 2017
1,472
I don't really see it as "episodic" since it's a full game. But what you mean is probably the way the original story was cut into multiple parts, and I think that was great, the game is incredibly fleshed out, bosses all have highlights and impecable presentation through cutscenes and structure. I couldn't see that happening if it was the whole FFVII story in one product with the same budget and development time.
 

ghibli99

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,726
I liked the way it expanded upon secondary characters who mattered very little in the original; so much so that I ended up liking some of them more than the core cast. The changes near the end made me pretty upset. LOL I also found a lot of the extra stuff to just be needless bloat and I'll be curious to see how/if they evolve the battle system. I really wasn't a fan of the menu-juggling. I wouldn't mind something that's perhaps more along the lines of a hybrid FF13/Xenoblade Chronicles type of system.
 

Xeno

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,837
I'm a bit torn. They said they couldn't flesh out the world in one game. Then they made Midgar a series of hallways with a bunch of unnecessary padding.

I'm more annoyed that the actual game is divided into episodes. Like I can't just go explore the world. I have to specific point in the story and hope I can navigate to the areas I want to go to.

I take it back. I'm not torn. Shit sucks.
 

Neiteio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,127
Sephiroth isn't a greater threat that just shows up at the end... or like a Thanos teaser. He's the main villian interferring with events, to lure out the Whisper Harbinger, so the party can help free his true essense which is imprisoned within the harbinger. Even in the begininning, he's messing with Cloud and Aerith's positioning. It doesn't work as a stand alone story because we're still not exactly sure what his overall goal is. He's even the last boss but of course he gets away.
The party doesn't realize he's the greater threat until the end, though. And cliffhangers are fine. Plenty of complete works end with major sequel hooks. Han Solo's fate in TESB comes to mind. This game is the complete story of what happened in Midgar, setting the stage for the next adventure.
 

Ovvv

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Jan 11, 2019
10,030
Sephiroth isn't a greater threat that just shows up at the end... or like a Thanos teaser. He's the main villian interferring with events, to lure out the Whisper Harbinger, so the party can help free his true essense which is imprisoned within the harbinger. Even in the begininning, he's messing with Cloud and Aerith's positioning. It doesn't work as a stand alone story because we're still not exactly sure what his overall goal is. He's even the last boss but of course he gets away.

Us being unsure is exactly why it works.
 

Kevers

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
14,538
Syracuse, NY
How could we know yet? If another part never manifests I'd say it was a failure but who knows they could totally bomb the next one or the one after that. Seems way too early to decide.
 

Rodney McKay

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,189
I think for an "Episodic" game to be successful, it needs to have a somewhat rapid release schedule.
I know games with the fidelity and scope of the FFVII remake take a long time to develop, which to me already makes it a failure as an "Episodic" game.

Maybe if they made it with FF14's engine and basically made it a single player MMO they could have accomplished a real Episodic version of FFVII that keeps its explorable world and have episodes dropping every 6 months to a year that build upon the existing episodes rather than being standalone.
But I don't think that would have satisfied people waiting so long for a AAA fidelity dremake.

Maybe Ubisoft could have accomplished it in a more reasonable amount of time. While I'm not a big Assassin's Creed fan these days, they were able to pump out FIVE open world games in a single generation, the last 3 of which are absolutely huge.
They're probably the only developer I could ever see doing a actual Episodic series of FFVII and finishing it within one console generation.
 

The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,426
The party doesn't realize he's the greater threat until the end, though. And cliffhangers are fine. Plenty of complete works end with major sequel hooks. Han Solo's fate in TESB comes to mind. This game is the complete story of what happened in Midgar, setting the stage for the next adventure.
Us being unsure is exactly why it works.
My point was it's not a "stand alone story", or a "perfectly complete story" it's clearly the introduction to whatever story they're going for this time. (Whether you call it a time travelling sequel or a reboot whatever)

There's too many unanswered questions to function that way, about Aerith and Sephiroth's roles, (how much does she know?) and what catalyst caused the Whispers to emerge in the first place.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,770
I wouldn't call it episodic, more of a new trilogy or how many game they are going to release for it. The tragedy here is that we won't know for maybe a decade or two to see the entire outcome. Sure, the next game could also be great, but what if the third shits the bed and ends up ruining the story? I don't feel like discussing plot details that may or may not happen for a fourth of my life span. Sure the first game turned out well for most, when you are just focusing on a small fraction of the plot, especially a very small simple part of the story, but since they are hinting things are going to be different, that leaves me very worried.

We've seen new stories in the FF7 universe, Advent Children, Crisis Core, Dirge of Cerberus, etc. All spanning different mediums, and they all vary in quality. But general consensus is they don't touch the quality of the original. They may have their fans, but some of the them feel like they ruin the story of the original or what made it special. Maybe this whole thing will turn out well, but it's going to take years to see the outcome, and I don't really trust Nomura and his team to nail the entire thing. At best, it will be a very flawed but still fun romp through the world of FF7. At worst, it might kill the FF7 brand and make fans despise Nomura for not delivering them the FF7 experience they wanted.

Thankfully, Yoshida is doing a fantastic job with FF14 after playing the trial, and FF16 looks to be a very interesting experiment with the franchise. I would put my faith in him to deliver a damn good FF game. Especially that the first trailer we had has gameplay, english voice acting and an idea of the story. It also might be coming out soon!