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NuclearCake

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,867
Sean nails it with his "This is a super Saiyan...." dialogue that is now associated as being the canon quote with that scene. It's like he is showing you how you're going to die.

This is one of those scenes where Nozawa simply cannot match Schemmel. She cannot hit that range like he can. It's simply not possible. He sounds like a fucking monster.

I found Sean to be a stunningly bad actor and his scream here is pretty bad along with the equally unfitting music.

He did improve in Kai slightly, but the original Funi dub wss a mess. I still have a hard time grasping how anyone can prefer it if they have seen the original JP version.
 

JahIthBer

Member
Jan 27, 2018
10,382
I was privileged enough to be able to get cheap VHS's of DBZ too when i was younger & skip ahead of everyone else, i thought SSJ3 was stupid & even as a young lad i could tell Buu Saga was just crap compared to Frieza & Android saga, im glad more people today are noticing that too, because at the time it aired people loved Buu saga & it annoyed me to tears when i tried to explain Buu wasn't better just because the power levels were higher.
Maybe it's why im so cynical today lol.
 

Vex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,213
I found Sean to be a stunningly bad actor and his scream here is pretty bad along with the equally unfitting music.

He did improve in Kai slightly, but the original Funi dub wss a mess. I still have a hard time grasping how anyone can prefer it if they have seen the original JP version.
I found Nozawa's squirrel voice to not suit the character on screen. In super, her performance is notably worse what with the constant "Neh Neh Neh Neh" squirrel scream in beam struggles. Or that sound she makes in place of groans in what I can only describe as "chhssskk". She just can't keep up imo.
 

Bakercat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,154
'merica
The initial transformation was dope, but every other aspect is dumb. SSJ2 should of been the last, with Gohan only being able to do it when pushed to his limit.
 

Darknight34

Banned
Apr 29, 2018
210
This was up there with all the big moments for me as a kid at the time. It didn't pan out as effective, but still cool. Goku just brute forcing his way beyond ss2 to a new form is so perfect for his character. He didn't find the next ultimate thing, but he did throw all his effort at it.
 

IDreamOfHime

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,437
I remember my buddy coming back from vacation at Hong Kong in the the late 90s, maybe 97 or 98, and he had brought back shit tons of GT merch. It blew the minds of our group of friends that this thing even existed.

Haha, oops. I totally read it as SSJ4.
 

NippleViking

Member
May 2, 2018
4,485
I remember a long time ago they said blonde thing was to save time coloring hair in the manga. Uncolored hair in black and white manga usually defaults to blonde when they transition to color for some reason. A large part of DB's art style comes from trying to save time

Theyre supposed to have green eyes too .

Lol. I love how so many of DBZs amazing moments and tropes were almost entirely by accident. Toriyama has enough notches on his belt to prove he's as genuinely good writer/mangaka, but his damn if he isn't also the worlds biggest hack.
 

I KILL PXLS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,536
Kind of wish I could have experienced DBZ unspoiled. I knew about most of the characters long before I ever watched it just because they used to sell the Japanese toys in ads in the back of EGM. The first episodes I actually watched were from bootleg VHS tapes a friend of mine had recorded straight off Japanese TV. They were Great Saiyaman episodes and the Cooler movie. Between all that and the video games I was importing or renting, I knew just about everything before I actually watched or read it.
 

XaviConcept

Art Director for Videogames
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
4,906
I saw this in the mid 90's in Mexico as a teen, I was able to get a copy of the Spanish Manga from friends in Spain via mail because it wasnt far behind the Japanese at the time (Mexico had just begin airing the DB anime, nevermind publishing manga) and I hadnt been able to keep up with the series for a couple of years (when I left Spain they were still in the Cell saga) so in the issue I got, this happens

4.gif


5.gif


and it kind of looked like the series jumped the shark at that exact moment, tbh
 

chrisPjelly

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
10,494
The reveal itself was probably the highlight of the Buu saga.

And then it barely mattered by the end...
 
OP
OP
Soapbox Killer
Oct 28, 2017
27,119
Kind of wish I could have experienced DBZ unspoiled. I knew about most of the characters long before I ever watched it just because they used to sell the Japanese toys in ads in the back of EGM. The first episodes I actually watched were from bootleg VHS tapes a friend of mine had recorded straight off Japanese TV. They were Great Saiyaman episodes and the Cooler movie. Between all that and the video games I was importing or renting, I knew just about everything before I actually watched or read it.


I wish I was as well. In the 90's I was in High School and since Philly is so close to New York, people would go up there to get KungFu movies and "Japanimation" tapes. Never in order. Plus we were playing Hyper Dimension on an import system so I was underwhelmed by certain events.



Although when Cartoon Network finally got past the namek Ginyu force part, when Goku went Super Sayian the first time....I was still hype and I was 21 or something.
 

-JD-

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,472
I thought it was dumb as hell when I was a kid, and still think it's dumb. And I was lucky to not be spoiled before seeing the transformation. The music is dope though.

The hair being that long makes no goddamn sense (even for a series that often *barely* makes sense).
 

I KILL PXLS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,536
Although when Cartoon Network finally got past the namek Ginyu force part, when Goku went Super Sayian the first time....I was still hype and I was 21 or something.
Lol yeah. I was still hyped when new episodes came out. I worked at Suncoast video when the new dub FINALLY came out and we'd throw the VHS tapes up on the tvs and watch it asap. People were coming in rabid for that shit every release day too lol.
 

Biske

Member
Nov 11, 2017
8,270
The only hype one was the first Sayian transformation in the freeza saga, was legit insane.

Everything after was like "whelp need some new shit!!!"
 

teacup

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
686
gets told the reasoning and still ignores it

nice job

I literally said I was ignoring some of the reasoning specifically because it doesn't matter the reason, what matters is the result.

I mean I just googled it as I'd never really thought before but plenty of people have seen this allegory. What about the popo character being black face in Japan, or the fact that Goku literally evolved from ape to Japanese to blonde hair?

That's all to save money on printing too?

It's not exactly the first time Japanese anime has been racially problematic and been defended on these forums etiehr
 
OP
OP
Soapbox Killer
Oct 28, 2017
27,119
I have a hard time believing most people didn't get this spoiled for them years in advance if they were watching in the US.

Some of the people might not have been born yet.

Lol yeah. I was still hyped when new episodes came out. I worked at Suncoast video when the new dub FINALLY came out and we'd throw the VHS tapes up on the tvs and watch it asap. People were coming in rabid for that shit every release day too lol.

Suncoast Video, theres a name...
 

Cipherr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,434
I have a hard time believing most people didn't get this spoiled for them years in advance if they were watching in the US.


Well yeah, but consider back then how bad it was. There was art everywhere with different designed gokus that looked legit all over the internet. And the only video proof was terrible framerate real player vids that weren't even in english. No one I know bothered downloading that crap for 15 hours just to get 10 minutes of buffering, 5 minutes of footage in Japanese, then another 15 minutes of 'surprise' pixelated porn.

Im sure I had seen that SSJ3 model somewhere online before the episode, but I wasn't actually sure what it was, or if it was real or whatever.
 

Hucast

alt account
Banned
Mar 25, 2019
3,598
I still dont get why it was so shortlived. Thought it looked amazing
 

Maximum Spider

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,990
Cleveland, OH
Well yeah, but consider back then how bad it was. There was art everywhere with different designed gokus that looked legit all over the internet. And the only video proof was terrible framerate real player vids that weren't even in english. No one I know bothered downloading that crap for 15 hours just to get 10 minutes of buffering, 5 minutes of footage in Japanese, then another 15 minutes of 'surprise' pixelated porn.

Im sure I had seen that SSJ3 model somewhere online before the episode, but I wasn't actually sure what it was, or if it was real or whatever.
You telling me this isn't real?
 

Maximum Spider

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,990
Cleveland, OH
Its shit, but still miles ahead of the boring Super Saiyan God crap we got.
You know, the original concept of Super Saiyan God from Battle of Gods was my favorite "transformation" since SS2. I loved the idea that Goku had to stop and accept help from his friends to achieve his strongest form. It felt like the perfect evolution to the Genki-dama. Apparently I misunderstood the film though because now it's something people can achieve without any pomp and circumstance.
 
Last edited:

_Karooo

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,029
Well the initial transformation yeah but it was a lame form because the power boost wasn't showcased well.
 
Nov 14, 2017
2,331
I literally said I was ignoring some of the reasoning specifically because it doesn't matter the reason, what matters is the result.

I mean I just googled it as I'd never really thought before but plenty of people have seen this allegory. What about the popo character being black face in Japan, or the fact that Goku literally evolved from ape to Japanese to blonde hair?

That's all to save money on printing too?

It's not exactly the first time Japanese anime has been racially problematic and been defended on these forums etiehr
You're swinging and missing a fair bit here. It's not even a question of intent vs outcome, as you're making arguments based on intent yourself now, only they're inaccurate. Goku never evolved from "ape to Japanese to blonde". If you're argument is about the links between character design ("transformation/form" in the text itself) and power, then you immediately run into the problem that the giant "ape" form is more powerful than the "human" form, so your evolution narrative breaks down. The form that this thread is based on (SS3) explicitly incorporates elements of the "ape" design to emphasise its power. As covered earlier, there is no "divine" aspect to the transformation either. In the more recent fiction, where there are such transformations, they are indisputably supernatural (burning red/cyan hair and eyes).

You might think I'm a Dragon Ball fan trying to defend the series here, but I'm really more interested in accurate analysis. Hence why I'm not making excuses for Mr. Popo, but note that by throwing in his design in an attempt to bolster your argument about other designs you undercut your own claim to be arguing purely from appearances.
 

idonteven

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,631
That clip is everything I hate about dragon ball. Random screaming for four minutes. The weird bad guy going "so what your hair is different" then Goku laughing then screaming then his hair is different again. Wow.

It just always felt like a really lame videogamey way of showing how your story and characters progress. But then again any show that is just designed to go for that long (and anime's are especially guilty of this) long throw out any pretense of real character development in favour of just basic "how can we extend the plot out" bullshit.


It just struck me then also there is some vaguely unsettlingly racist about their stronger, pure form being a blonde haired blue eyed character. Gross
lmao
 

El Bombastico

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
36,039
It was like 80% Falconer and 20% badass looking. So yeah.

For real. I actually saw the scene in Japanese first (somehow back then my cable got access to an Asian networked that aired DBZ episodes in Japanese) and just could not stop laughing with how ridiculous the music and especially Goku's VA was.

Falconer and Sean really sold that scene.
 

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,144
i think about that scene whenever i go hard at the gym

funny though rewatching it right now i just realized goku would've killed like hundreds of innocent people in the process
 

Phendrana

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,059
Melbourne, Australia
I loved it as a kid. I mean the lack of eyebrows was a bit unsettling, but it was so early in the arc that it came completely out of nowhere, and the shock made it a defining moment of the series for me. Even watching it again now, I find it epic as hell seeing him literally shake the world just to power up. That it ultimately doesn't end up mattering all that much honestly makes it even better. Plus the Faulconer theme for the transformation is sooo good.

I'd be remiss if I didn't post this while I'm here.

 

Grain Silo

Member
Dec 15, 2017
2,509
I remember seeing glimpses of SSJ3 Goku in TV bumps for the Buu saga way back when and I thought Raditz had come back, lol.

But it looks awful. I much prefer the different colored SSJ forms for the God transformations and I'm glad SSJ3's essentially been thrown in the trash.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,560
I didn't care about being "spoiled" as a kid. First time I saw SS3 was Gotenks vs Super Buu was in Japanese on someone's tape. Downside is, once Buu was being hyped on Toonami I kept describing him to people and was not expecting fat Buu. But at least I got the pink with white pants right.


That clip is everything I hate about dragon ball. Random screaming for four minutes. The weird bad guy going "so what your hair is different" then Goku laughing then screaming then his hair is different again. Wow.

It just always felt like a really lame videogamey way of showing how your story and characters progress. But then again any show that is just designed to go for that long (and anime's are especially guilty of this) long throw out any pretense of real character development in favour of just basic "how can we extend the plot out" bullshit.


It just struck me then also there is some vaguely unsettlingly racist about their stronger, pure form being a blonde haired blue eyed character. Gross
tenor.gif
 

Spaceroast

Member
Oct 30, 2017
522
Goku versus Majin Vegeta was the hypest moment of the buu saga, and it's not even close. Goku losing his eyebrows was just odd.
 
Oct 27, 2017
42,700
Do you mean the race thing or the other stuff

I stand by both. I'm not saying it literally was intended to be some aryan master race stuff. But on a very real level it is saying that that is a more powerful and in that clip literally divine (he has an angels halo above his head as he powers up) to have white features as opposed to japanese.

He has angelic features because he's dead and temporarily been brought back to life. They have nothing to do with the transformation or divinity whatsoever.
 

Sephzilla

Herald of Stoptimus Crime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,493
It was really cool at the time but in hindsight it's soured by being an ultimately pointless moment. But, to be fair, really cool moments that ultimately don't matter is basically the Buu Saga in a nutshell