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Ossom

Member
Oct 31, 2017
821
As GaaS it's probably not doing great. The IP will shift some more units through the holidays and the free next gen update should help a bit too (it's one reason I haven't moved my copy on yet). Blackwidow film tie in would have helped too, but I think that's been pushed to next year.

If the extend the tail on this and keep the sale price high then financially it may do alright. They've just got a lot of bugs to fix.
 

Mr. Poolman

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
7,000
Imagine getting the Avengers franchise, AAA development money and getting those user numbers.
I would ask for a few heads o a silver plate for this.
 

Terraforce

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
18,917
Gamstat has it over 2 million players on Xbox/PS4 so it's probably in the ballpark of 3M at the very least. So not terrible considering it's only been out for a few weeks, but I don't see the legs being good at all. It really needs continued support to fix the various issues plaguing the experience, and a lot more content to flesh out the multiplayer. Then maybe good word of mouth can help it like it did No Man's Sky.
 

Ravelle

Member
Oct 31, 2017
17,806
It has a very unfortunate launch, even with the delays it was still way too hot out of the oven. It had been pushed out the door for one reason or other but it should have been delayed a few extra months.

It will pull itself straight.
 

itfiend

Member
Dec 31, 2019
407
I think it's probably got legs - now it's been patched the single player campaign is really solid and offers reasonable value even without the GaaS bit.

Edit : apparently it's only an 11 hour campaign. Pretty sure I've played longer than that on it, maybe I'm just rubbish.
 

DrDeckard

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,109
UK
Has to be a massive flop for them. no one is talking about it. it's not had the same buzz as any other Gaas. just feels like it came and went.
 

FarronFox

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,429
Melbourne, Australia
I played the demo and it got me interested but I haven't picked it up yet as I want to play the better version on the new consoles (likely ps5 as it's got more content than xbox).

If they wanted more sales when the game released they should have waited and made it be a launch title for the new consoles.
 

Alek

Games User Researcher
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
8,471
I wouldn't expect Steam numbers are all that indicative of the success of a game like this. It seems targeted towards a console audience.

This site tracks how many people have logged a trophy on Marvels Avengers... 1.6 million. Seems like an alright number I suppose?


BKuQTNJ.png


Now let's compare to unsuccessful vs successful games...

Anthem


FH9NStO.png


1.5 m sales early followed by a slow incline. It doesn't say anything for engagement which I think is the biggest factor with these titles. The developers want people to keep playing, endlessly... which we know didn't happen with Anthem.

Plants vs Zombies Garden Warfare 2


21g369s.png


Obviously these trophy stats are only a proxy for sales, but I think they paint a good picture of how the population of a game develops over time. Note that you don't have to earn a trophy to tally into these totals, you just have to load the game up on an account. That creates some issues as you could have one copy of the game logged multiple times, if it's played on multiple accounts.

In that sense it counts total users, rather than total sales.

Nevertheless, at the moment the answer is that it's impossible to say much about the success of the game because we know nothing about it's sales performance over time. If you look at Plants vs Zombies Garden Warfare 2, it didn't pick up sales very quickly but it was able to sustain its sales throughout the 2 year period. Even today, new users are picking up Garden Warfare 2. According to Gamestat more new players are picking up Garden Warfare 2 than Battle for Neighborliness, which is a strong testament to the long-term popularity of the former game.

The metrics here that are most meaningful are total sales, and weekly active users (not daily, because there might be specific reasons that people are more or less inclined to log in during certain days). We can see here that the early for Marvel Avengers are... to be honest, a bit underwhelming. They're in-line with Anthem, and a far cry from something like Destiny 2 (which isn't pictured hear, but has 5 million users tracked on PS4 within its launch window).

That isn't to say that Marvel Avengers won't be a successful game, but it doesn't look like one right off the bat. Success will depend on whether they can draw in new players, especially going into the holiday period, and with upcoming updates.

The data in the OP, regarding daily active players on steam definitely makes it look like the game has a problem with churn. We would need to be see data from previous days / weeks to really understand what's happening. But it looks like a lot of folks that bought it on Steam, aren't coming back to the game.

This might be what you see from the typical churn rate of a free to play mobile game.

Retention-Rate-Graph.png


The data we have is a little different, since we'd normally want to know how many players we had on day one, versus now, but we only have concurrent players. Nonetheless you can use the concurrent player count to similar effect, just be aware that you're probably getting a much larger number of players logging in over the course of the entire day.

Usually, retention measures would be

Day 1 daily active users
Day 7 daily active users
Day 28 daily active users

And for a mobile free to play, you might be expecting a 10% retention rate by day 28 (pictured above). Using the CCU numbers on steam, we have something similar to that...but the big issue here is that Marvel's Avengers isn't a mobile free to play, people have paid money to be here. So you might expect retention to be quite a bit higher. I'm certain that Crystal Dynamics do. So at least in my opinion, it points towards a problem with player retention.

I don't have data on what churn rates should look like among console games, but if we look at something like Destiny 2, which picked up 3.5 million players early, then saw that daily active number drop to 1.5 million, that's much better performance than the 10% retention rate that the Steam data paints for Marvel Avengers.

But no one can really know outside of Crystal Dynamics and their publisher. That trophy data I presented is only a proxy for game sales, Steam data only represents the audience of the game on single platform. We don't have the complete picture. Nevertheless, if I had to make an estimate based on the limited information that we have, I'd wager that the game is significantly underperforming, on all fronts.
  • The game was received much more poorly than the developers and publisher would have hoped for.
  • The games sales are likely below expectations.
  • Player retention is likely, significantly below expectations.
But, there are still factors that are up in the air. I'm sure that the developers have a big marketing push planned for this game, as well as updates and whatnot, surrounding the upcoming holiday period. Whether this games future will be one akin to Plants vs Zombies Garden Warfare 2 (healthy growth, decent player retention), or Anthem (poor growth and retention) will be more evident at the end of that period. So I think a good time to pass judgement on this games success will be around late January, February time.
 

Lord Fanny

Banned
Apr 25, 2020
25,953
I know that. I'm asking if Square have paid for license (like Sony for Spider-man) or Marvel might have invested in the project as well and now would share the game's sales.

I guess we have no way of knowing that, but even they did, it would still be licensed. Any time someone makes a project from another's IP it's a licensed deal unless the former is buying the latter or something to that nature. But I don't think we know the extent of how much Marvel participated in any of these recent projects afaik
 

Deleted member 60582

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 12, 2019
2,152
Even though I'm still playing it and having a great time thanks to the combat system, it looks like my initial comparison to Jedi: Fallen Order may pan out. Initial week's sales are good thanks to the strength of the IP, but once players discover the bugs and lack of replayability the player numbers drop off a cliff. Luckily it being a GaaS means it has plenty of room to recover, but they have to do something quick to re-engage the players they've already lost.
 

VG Aficionado

Member
Nov 6, 2017
1,385
Since I never hear about this game outside this place, my impression is that it's very much a disappointment, as in having very low sales relative to its budget and appeal.

So let's say 3 million to be kind. That is not good enough for a major multi-platform title.
AAAA title, right? Anything below 10 million is a failure. It might break even soon enough though, but still perform badly according to expectations from the publishers and IP holders.
 

Spinluck

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
28,497
Chicago
The game needs a top to bottom rework.

The characters all have strong kits but they need to work on more interesting ways to get players to use them. Not all the enemies are engaging to fight and a lot of the bosses are meh.

I think with enough work they can turn it around but I'm not sure how much they are willing to change.
 

Ales34

Member
Apr 15, 2018
6,455
I don't think so. Those concurrent players numbers are very low for a new game. There are games that are a decade old that have better concurrent players numbers.
 

DevilMayGuy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,579
Texas
I can't imagine that it's considered a success internally. Trophy stats reveal potentially anemic sales on the primary platform (PS4), while Steam stats fail to impress compared to other notable underperformers. I think this is Anthem 2.0, which is totally deserved given the buggy, unpolished state of the product along with the muddy, trend-chasing nature of the game's core design. It didn't have to be like this. It didn't have to be an Anthem clone, with poorly designed levels, enemies, and loot. It could have been an ensemble action adventure campaign with a co-op component, it could have been... anything. Instead, they decided first that they needed their own Destiny-style money printer, finding every way they could to load it with beaucoup MTX and battle passes galore before they had ironed out the small business of making a good game that was worth playing. This cynical approach to game design and monetization is abhorrent to me, and I'm glad that the experiment has seemingly failed. Stop trying to fleece us and go back to making games that are worth a damn.
 

mangrilla

Member
Aug 28, 2020
980
Washington, DC
Kind of wild that we're taking 4 pages now to say no, but obviously no, it is not a success. Do I, as a Marvel fanboy, deeply want it to be a success, with a long tail, tons of characters to choose from? Yes.

But as others have mentioned, it's one of the buggiest game launches in recent history, there's precious little variety in the endgame content, and there is so much interesting stuff in gaming happening over the next few months that I just don't see why players have a reason to return or why new players should take a look. Marvel fans will have Miles Morales, GaaS fans have tons of better options, game fans in general are going to be focused on the new consoles, Cyberpunk, and so much more.

These games get better over time, but I also can't help but see Spider-Man coming in March as it's own ticking time bomb. First, players outside PS ecosystem are pissed and will be pissed all over again when it drops. But I think PS players will be pissed as well because there's no way that the character is done in a satisfying manner, IMO. The swinging mechanics already in this game are such hot garbage, and they are either going to have his webs attach to the sky or have them attach to the random smattering of tree limbs and flag poles that litter stages and both outcomes are going to suck. So Spider-Man killed adoption on non-PS platforms and I don't believe it the character will be worth it even on PS platforms.

I was definitely willing to overlook a lot, having played the beta and still gone in on day one. But the charming single player campaign and Kamala can only carry the rest of the package so far. For me, that's done with and I've moved on.
 

Khrol

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,179
I doubt it. The game cratered on PC and it's sitting at number 18 on the top played list on Xbox. Maybe it's doing better on PlayStation but I doubt it's enough to make up for the underperformance on the other two platforms.
 

snausages

Member
Feb 12, 2018
10,362
I went in as a non Marvel fan but someone interested in the idea of a brawler GAAS type of thing and I think there's a lot of fun ideas in the combat, but it all feels too far away from being anywhere complete. I think it's a hopeless task to get this game to a point it hits expectations, it would require a Realm Reborn level of commitment to pull off. Like literally get rid of this game and replace it with a better one because incremental updates aren't gonna do it I reckon

I hope they do do this but they won't
 

Monkey D.

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
2,352
A new marvel movie or disney+ show could help this game

And better content of course. They are not even releasing comic accurate skins .

What kind of gaas is this ?
 

dep9000

Banned
Mar 31, 2020
5,401
It really isn't a good game so I'm not surprised. I got it for free and can't be bothered to go back and play. It's the definition of average.

I can't see any updates, even spiderman moving the needle. The core gameplay just isn't fun
 

Tobor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,524
Richmond, VA
I enjoyed the game, but I've lost all interest in it since beating the campaign. I'lll be back when the first characters drop as there is more story included with them.
 

LumberPanda

Member
Feb 3, 2019
6,365
We really don't know the legs of this game yet. Sea of Thieves for example didn't start off strong but now it's one of Microsoft's largest properties. Anthem on the other hand was really strong for like a week but died off quick.

I imagine that every single time Marvel releases a film or Disney+ program there will be a surge of players for this game. If they can fix the bugs and roll out the datamined characters it could pick up.
 

Alek

Games User Researcher
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
8,471
Just further highlights the risks of AAA development. Even the biggest Marvel license can't guarantee success.

Well I think part of that stems from the fact that licensed IPs aren't often associated with high quality in the video game space. People have been burnt for so long by licensed video game titles being synonymous with bad video games, that they're probably more cautious.

I also think that people consume a lot of media surrounding a product before they buy, today. Predominantly in the form of youtube reviews and impressions videos.

I could go into a Marvel movie and know what I'm going to get, without watching a youtube video. I know it'll be at least entertaining and it doesn't cost me more than £10, so that's fine. In the same way, folks will buy a Call of Duty or FIFA game without really thinking about it, they know what they're going to get. But licensed video games are such an unknown quantity.

Perhaps, Marvel should stick to a particular style and quality standard for their IPs. Work with maybe one or two studios that they know can put out consistently high quality titles that offer a good representation of their properties in the video game space. Build that relationship with players, and then, if they must, try to monetise it into a bigger, avengers style game.

MCU wasn't built in a day either, and it feels like Marvel Avengers takes too much for granted. It's not given that players will flock to your game if it features the Marvel license, you need to prove you can make persistently good quality products in this space, first.
 

Bobbyleejones

Banned
Aug 25, 2019
2,581
In my honest opinion, this game should have never released on current gen just due to the performance issues. Also the fact that crossplay hurts the PC community tremendously (PC players don't really stay on full priced games as long ). But with spider-man being exclusive crossplay is close to zero and produced a heavy skewe towards one platflorm. Also the amount of iconic villains not in the game is kinda crazy when you have the marvel license. The last major thing is that gear progression has no visual representation which kinda takes the fun out of loot grinding a bunch. CD's reasoning for no visual changes due to loot is because fans would not have been pleased....... what a piss poor excuse. Imagine getting gear sets of iconic suits for character. So many missed opportunities
 

SteveWinwood

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,684
USA USA USA
It was interesting watching my friends lose interest in it in real time. One said he would wait until spiderman got added into the pc version, another then thought it looked boring, a third and fourth figured it wasn't worth buying if their friends weren't buying it then. Like dominoes.
 

Spark

Member
Dec 6, 2017
2,540
For multiplayer games like this you need Streamers to get on board, no amount of paid AAA advertising can compete considering the millions of people who will actually spend money on games (i.e not a random dude who see's the ad at a bus stop) who are glued to streamers. An indie games from 2018 stole the show this month with 60 million daily active users, their marketing budget was $0.

This game had very limited content, a shit PC version and platform exclusive content. No streamer would touch it.
 

Mobu

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
5,932
It probably sold well on the release weeks but as a gaas game, the thing that matters is having constantly good playerm numbers and engagement and i dont know about that...
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,297
For now it has done okay - I would expect the player base isn't what they would have wanted at this stage though. But I expect there will be spikes around big events; especially and in someways oxymoronic to the response when revealed, Spider-Man launching early next year. If they can make the events appealing and show compelling improvements over time this will just be a bump. We've seen games gain popularity from even more underwhelming player bases in the past.
 

Deleted member 17388

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,994
I checked Twitch right now and saw that Fortnite is doing a Marvel crossover. So on top of all the problems the game has, the kids are getting their Avengers fix with Fortnite and don't need to buy another game.
Oh, that's right. Unfortunate timing for SE.

And it doesn't help the Fortnite crossover has a variety of characters (With more appealing aesthetics, I must say), and not only the ones that everyone is already done after so many movies. Plus it's canon to the comics :v
 

Deleted member 7148

Oct 25, 2017
6,827
They should have just stuck with the campaign, made the full thing co-op compatible, expanded out it's length, and called it a day. Ditch the GAAS stuff. It's a rather good single player campaign but the GAAS crap is terrible.
 

Nesther

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,056
Switzerland
They're probably banking on a second wind down the line, after a couple of major updates and combined with a deep discount. That's when I'll be picking it up.
 

Valkerion

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,246
I'm really curious and hopeful that Square will pump their corporate "its a failure" brakes and let the game breath and evolve with some aftercare work. It's something that Warframe and Destiny had to do to turn their shortcomings into great success. If their only work on the game is going to be characters and bug fixes, then the game is good as dead beyond the first wave so to speak of content. Tweaking the whole experience based on feedback and some kind of vision for the project as time progresses is key in keeping users interested of course.

I wonder if it would have been worth it to delay into like Nov or Jan, work out some last minute kinks and launch mainly next gen as the focus. Oh well, can only wonder.
 

Nateo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,558
The game did a GaaS Looter game where the loot is non-cosmetic, there is no crossplay so the game feels dead and the updates are few and far between so its to be expected.
Additionally it looks like shit for such a massive AAA undertaking.

They also pulled a stupid and instead of having an interesting popular character for the first DLC drop they chose Kate Bishop which is none of those.