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Was Final Fantasy X received as badly upon release as XIII for its linearity?
- Thread starter NateDog
- Start date
Nah it was acclaimed by the masses. FFX was received badly by ME for it's linearity. Immense disappointment when the world map ended being a point and click list of areas to enter.
Honestly, FFX wasn't as linear FFXIII and had a lot more going for it as far as advancing the genre. That's why the FFXIII whiplash was more severe. The thing is, reduced exploration and agency puts more emphasis on characters and storytelling and FFXIII, frankly, crumbled under that weight.
Honestly, FFX wasn't as linear FFXIII and had a lot more going for it as far as advancing the genre. That's why the FFXIII whiplash was more severe. The thing is, reduced exploration and agency puts more emphasis on characters and storytelling and FFXIII, frankly, crumbled under that weight.
Any rumours regarding this? I could easily go for a FFXIII collection.
I love you.
It's really frustrating me that I can't find any evidence of this now, but I definitely saw on Twitter (dreamboum retweeted it) that 'to virtuous' had been found in the XIII files on steam as of the end of last year.
The 13 trilogy was bashed due to the rise of open-world games and because of it's convoluted story. X and XIII are two of the best games in the series though
Linearity is a short-hand to describe various elements, a better term would be pacing. Final Fantasy X lacks a world map but it is paced like a classic Final Fantasy. It has set pieces, quieter moments with town exploration and group interactions, minigames, sidequest, dungeons, secrets. All of those elements are experienced through gameplay and player interaction in some way, gameplay reflects the events of the story.
Final Fantasy XIII is paced like a dungeon crawler, cutscenes are rewards for clearing the new dungeon section and changes in the pace of the story are conveied through cutscenes, not gameplay. There's no actual downtime for the player, it becomes exhausting, especially considering the structure of the dungeons and how many limitations are placed on character growth, party composition, equipment etc.
Final Fantasy XIII is paced like a dungeon crawler, cutscenes are rewards for clearing the new dungeon section and changes in the pace of the story are conveied through cutscenes, not gameplay. There's no actual downtime for the player, it becomes exhausting, especially considering the structure of the dungeons and how many limitations are placed on character growth, party composition, equipment etc.
XIII wrote it into it's plot as well. It's about a group (often times separated) on the run.
I don't understand this. Out of all of the criticisms of XIII, the linear nature of the game not making sense within the story seems like a huge swing and a miss. The linear nature of the story makes a ton of sense narratively.
Yeah I realized after I posted that that in the past I actually have defended XIII's story making sense within a linear game, so you're right.
I guess the argument could've been the story should've been altered in the first place to include towns.
But knowing towns were hard for them to make, I guess that actually makes XIII's story clever - given that it was told without the need for them.
Maybe it's my age, but i think you can tell who was actually on the internet back then (or just generally up on things, i don't know why people are acting like the internet wasn't already a thing in 2001 lol) because X was definitely criticised pretty heavily back then for its linearity and definitely wasn't as widely acclaimed as people claim in here. Plenty of people were pretty bummed out that it was a bit of a departure from the relative freedom of the PS1 games. Not everyone was blinded by the visuals or voice acting or cared about pacing or world building. People missed the airships and the overworld.
and if we're talking about something from almost 20 years ago, it's only with hindsight and having a game like XIII to compare it to that it stacks up favorably now.
Not to say people didn't like it at the time, because they definitely did, but there's some revisionist nonsense being bandied about in this topic. Maybe it's an age thing.
and if we're talking about something from almost 20 years ago, it's only with hindsight and having a game like XIII to compare it to that it stacks up favorably now.
Not to say people didn't like it at the time, because they definitely did, but there's some revisionist nonsense being bandied about in this topic. Maybe it's an age thing.
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I'll take your word for it. The game was so pitiful I can't even remember it's story or characters.
I personally didn't care for it for that reason. I remember being so disappointed when the world didn't open up in the way I expected it to coming off VII, VIII and IX.
It's not as bad as XIII obviously but it's a mediocre experience held together by a superb battle system.
It's not as bad as XIII obviously but it's a mediocre experience held together by a superb battle system.
If you actually don't even remember the basic plotline, why are you commenting on it like you do?
Well if they wanted me to give a shit they shouldn't have hidden so much of the lore as optional readable material buried in the menu somewhere.
Most of my comments about FFXIII have been about the parts of the game I can actually remember and that's going to have to do.
The issue I had with FFXIII was not so much the linear gameplay but the forced party's and that you don't get any options at all until end chapter 9. That's 20 hours into the game, that's too far imo before things open up and the player gets choices.
I had issues with FFX as well though, just not as many.
I had issues with FFX as well though, just not as many.
FFXIIIs Linearity isn't just about the hallways.
You are railroaded in pretty much every aspect of combat, progression, party composition etc. It also does an absolutely terrible job at establishing it's world and lore. Even the characters take forever to be established.
FFX does a way better job at introducing you to bigger concepts of whats going on around you. It breaks the pace with small explorable areas. It lets you talk to a way bigger amount of people and it shows you how they live due to towns actually existing even if they are classic 2-3 screen JRPG villages. Think what you want of the plottwists but the storytelling is just way better in X than it is in XIII.
XIII is a game that takes 30 hours to get going mechanically and storywise and at the same time, ends abrupbtly and leaves you with a feeling that there wasn't enough set up. It's not great.
You are railroaded in pretty much every aspect of combat, progression, party composition etc. It also does an absolutely terrible job at establishing it's world and lore. Even the characters take forever to be established.
FFX does a way better job at introducing you to bigger concepts of whats going on around you. It breaks the pace with small explorable areas. It lets you talk to a way bigger amount of people and it shows you how they live due to towns actually existing even if they are classic 2-3 screen JRPG villages. Think what you want of the plottwists but the storytelling is just way better in X than it is in XIII.
XIII is a game that takes 30 hours to get going mechanically and storywise and at the same time, ends abrupbtly and leaves you with a feeling that there wasn't enough set up. It's not great.
The pacing of X is much better, it had towns to slow down the plot and allowed to expand on the world, characters and If I remember right, it still allow you to backtrack your steps to revisit locations. It was very much still a linear game but the execution was much better. It allowed the characters to anchor themselves in that world, to make it feel more alive with more NPC to talk and more interesting vistas and locations.
One of the major problems with XIII is that it's world design is very incosistent and detached. The game constantly moved your from location to location but there was no transitions. You had to believe those areas belonged to the same world, because otherwise they lacked some kind of cohesive design that you can identify the world the game had you travelling.
Each area is basically isolated from the last one with no common grounds or proper transitions to make them establish as part of the 'same' world.
One of the major problems with XIII is that it's world design is very incosistent and detached. The game constantly moved your from location to location but there was no transitions. You had to believe those areas belonged to the same world, because otherwise they lacked some kind of cohesive design that you can identify the world the game had you travelling.
Each area is basically isolated from the last one with no common grounds or proper transitions to make them establish as part of the 'same' world.
I've been musing on this further since chatting on this one last year.
I think one of the most harmful things for FFXIII was how utterly disposable the locations were. Final Fantasy is linear, but the worlds felt established and viable. About 90% of the stuff you walk through in FFXIII is gorgeous, but fundamentally window dressing. They're just themed locations that are discarded once you're through them. Do I even recognise them as viable areas of Cocoon? Pretty much no... I have this huge disconnect between the lived in areas of the populous, and then these sprawling fantasy locales that are hubs for monsters.
Everything feels compromised for the story - the big escape, becoming a Fal'Cie - where usually there is a fine balance between the two.
I think one of the most harmful things for FFXIII was how utterly disposable the locations were. Final Fantasy is linear, but the worlds felt established and viable. About 90% of the stuff you walk through in FFXIII is gorgeous, but fundamentally window dressing. They're just themed locations that are discarded once you're through them. Do I even recognise them as viable areas of Cocoon? Pretty much no... I have this huge disconnect between the lived in areas of the populous, and then these sprawling fantasy locales that are hubs for monsters.
Everything feels compromised for the story - the big escape, becoming a Fal'Cie - where usually there is a fine balance between the two.
This one here is a big crime. The story dictates that your characters cannot use crystarium skills until they are a Fal'Cie, meaning that the opening couple of hours are spent with battles that consist of Attack or Item.
I know auto-battle gets criticised, but fluidly swapping paradigms as necessary was pretty cool. Actually an extension of a fully equipped Gambit squad on FFXII. On that, I my party was pretty much hands off for the latter stages of the game, only requiring my interjection for certain moments.
I totally agree on this, but Pulse had a lot more freedom, and I don't just mean the open areas. The Sulya Springs had optional areas, you made actual choices in Taejin's Tower. It really felt like they'd got into their groove by that portion of the game. But then you've got 30 hours prior to that which are literally just pretty hallways.
I remember an interview which said that the vision for FFXIII wasn't clear until the demo they released with Advent Children Complete which the whole team could rally behind. That released THE SAME YEAR as FFXIII.
To be honest, no. Cuz it still felt like a grand adventure in each space. You had side activities, etc. XIII is just an entire half that's a slog and then it finally gets interesting. That's a long time
Pulse was ok, because you'd had something like 25 hours of world building leading up to it... some mysterious wonderland full of crazy beasts and the L'Cie. And the freedom of movement, being able to go forwards, come back, really helped too.
FFXIII - from what I read on here - was significantly impacted by FFXII's delays. It was meant to be a swansong for the PS2, but got thrown seriously out of whack. You can see screenshots of the PS2 dev version out on the internet. While XII was fantastic, makes you wonder what XIII would have been if it hit its proposed platform.
I'm sure it was heavily impacted by that and Crystal Tools. But ultimately it's still a Toriyama game and his lack of leadership is really evident. I'm so glad he's back to being an Event Director now because he's really good at that level.
Nah FFX is actually a good game it's also pretty much the last FF my more casual gamer friends have played.
The problem with XIII's linearity is (if I recall) there were several places you couldn't even come back to. It was a one way ride until you reached a certain point. You couldn't really return and explore.
FFX was linear but you could still return and travel to and from these areas to get items/secrets/etc. There were only a few places which were one-time deals.
FFX was linear but you could still return and travel to and from these areas to get items/secrets/etc. There were only a few places which were one-time deals.
FFX doesn't require you to only press forward until you finish it. It isn't nearly as bad as this. Side-quests also require some traveling once you reach near the end. It's actually a great game that knew what it was doing.
Same can't be said about the other one.
Same can't be said about the other one.
The linearity of XIII was not the problem. The lack of things to do was the problem, and the linearity simply exacerbated that. I do think people criticized the lack of exploration in X once you had the airship. But it has interesting, varied things to do in the endgame.
FFX had towns. FFX had puzzles. FFX had a large sports mini-game. FFX had more freedom with building your character stats & abilities. FFX didn't limit the player to 2 character parties for half the game. FFX let you choose your party composition early on. FFX felt like it took place in a realized world, not just a series of random background art.
My dream for a remaster of XIII is adding in a side game like Blitzball that you could access from the save menu (maybe VR racing, that'd fit with the CG late in the game), theme park rides at Nautilus and some more hunts along the way that you can access through chapter select.
Just adding those would give the game some much needed distractions along the way.
13 was well reviewed and it's only when players got their hands on the game that it all went "holy shit, this is crap!"
Not being an open-world was the least of the game's "issues".
Plot makes no sense unless you delve into an actual in-game encyclopedia, characters are lame, battle system sucks, even those who love this mess of a battle system agree it's shit for the first 20 or so hours, the only redeeming qualities are graphics and music. That's a lot of flaws for an RPG!
High five old fart.
I liked X at release though. And even if I didn't replay it recently, I think it's probably still a pretty decent game in its own right.
Especially compared to 13 haha
But yeah, X got its share of flak at the time.
Lack of overworld was a big piece of criticism, but atleast you were allowed to backtrack (eventually)
I've disliked it for like 14 years lol. I'm just thankful that I've always had expert grid available, because I can't imagine how worse it'd be with standard grid.
The linearity and turn based battle system is awful, and it just becomes a case of use whoever has the attack most suitable for each specific enemy, until it turns into Tidus Quick Hit Auron Quick Hit Rikku Quick Hit Wakka Quick Hit Tidus Quick Hit Auron Quick Hit Wakka Quick Hit Rikku Quick Hit.
Seriously? I didn't get into JRPGs until I got older, but Skies of Arcadia is a lot better lol.
As for the topic at hand, FFX isn't quite as linear as FFXIII, but yeah it's still a very linear game. As someone who played both of these games for the first time in the early 2010's, I felt they were both cut from the same cloth, especially in comparison to VI-IX
Final Fantasy XIII had horrible pacing, while FFX paced itself pretty darn well. Also FFX had better world design.