There's some lore in 2k16, but nothing to the extent of Eternal's endless loredumping into your datalog to provide backstory and explanations to stuff that isn't explained in-game.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Was Doom Eternal's story meant to be a parody?
- Thread starter Noodle
- Start date
There's some lore in 2k16, but nothing to the extent of Eternal's endless loredumping into your datalog to provide backstory and explanations to stuff that isn't explained in-game.
Yeah, and it took like ten hours to get to that point. The first stage should have started with the same tone as the BFG stage. By the time this happens it's like "finally!"
It's 100% anecdotal, but I feel like there's a pretty hard split. Plenty of people adore what the game did to evolve the formula & are replaying it on increased difficulty - and plenty of people dropped it after just a few hours in. I think a lot of the former are older-school DOOM fans who unironically love the aesthetic & lore, while a lot of the latter are more general shooter fans who were extremely charmed by how much the first game took the piss out of DOOM as a premise.
I feel like the Doom identity can safely house within it the campy craziness 2016 embodied and this way-too-detailed demon-lore that harkons back to that 80s/90s D&D type detail that made up the context around which the original Doom was released. I kinda see it as its own form of campyness to read about some Hell-Priest opening up the Gore-Nest to release the Icon of Sin. They both feel very valid in the Doom universe, I think 2016 is just the more minimalist version of it, and Eternal is pleased to drench you in over dramatic lore that's also still fun and weird and somehow intriguing.
I like 2016's approach to the story. Not really any cutscenes and the narrative was still there if you wanted it. Not even 5 minutes into Eternal I was already paused and on the Doom wiki because I had absolutely no idea what the fuck was happening. It's incredibly jarring when the game has full cutscenes full of characters that we don't know, jargon we don't know, and random shit that makes no sense. For example in the first 10 minutes you go to earth and kill some bad guy, and then doom guy pulls out a blue coin and cuts off his head???? I was so fucking confused because it literally made zero sense. the story and characters are a mess.
It's like Warhammer 40k:
In-universe it's played straight, but from the outside, you can realize it's just a universe made with a very enthusiatic use of 'Rule of Cool' ("Welcome to the Grim Dark Future" 😄 )
In case of Doom Eternal, it's entire lore is pretty much "He Man meets Robocop on a Heavy Metal Album background", with all the '80s saturday morning cartoon dialogue and ultra violence you can image.
Still, for the characters in universe, all that stuff is 100% serious. But for us, it's meant to be taken way lightly, because they are clearly aware of how silly the whole thing is.
In-universe it's played straight, but from the outside, you can realize it's just a universe made with a very enthusiatic use of 'Rule of Cool' ("Welcome to the Grim Dark Future" 😄 )
In case of Doom Eternal, it's entire lore is pretty much "He Man meets Robocop on a Heavy Metal Album background", with all the '80s saturday morning cartoon dialogue and ultra violence you can image.
Still, for the characters in universe, all that stuff is 100% serious. But for us, it's meant to be taken way lightly, because they are clearly aware of how silly the whole thing is.
Last edited:
But how or why is this even remotely a problem? Its all optional.
Because to understand what's going on, you basically have to dive into the data logs. Like, the game starts with Doomguy killing a Hell Priest and fiddling with a blue coin of some sort. What's a Hell Priest? What's that coin? How is the Hell Priest significant? What is his role? Datalog time.
Then you get to Exultia, and meet a green spectral wolf/dog. Why is it there? What does it mean? Not even the datalogs explain that one. Then you meet King Boo, the ghost king. He and Doomguy seems to be old chums, but who is the king and how does Doomguy know him? Datalog time.
Next up you meet The Betrayer. In Doom 2k16 he seemed like a big deal. Here? He looks like a Gears of War reject that exiled himself to Hell because he was a Sad Dad and messed up. He gives you a MacGuffin and fucks off, never to be seen again. Who was The Betrayer again, and what is that MacGuffin? Datalog time.
And so the game keeps going.
Last edited:
To answer OP's question; I don't think it's a parody, no. Hugo was clear during media preview events that they wanted to build a universe for Doom.
However, I am firmly in the camp that it's consciously tongue-in-cheek, and I think the non-diagetic UX, as well as Fortress of Doom, are the best examples of this. These elements of the game are extremely game-y in a way that kind of run antithetical to the bombast of the narrative. As an example; in Doom 2016 you basically more or less stumble upon most weapons as you go along; usually the set piece of a dead space marine holding onto it. They reuse this a lot to give things a more grounded approach. Conversely in Doom Eternal the weapons are generally floating pickups with no rhyme or reason as to why they're floating and glowing, everyone just takes it as a matter of fact; notably the Chain Gun is teased before you actually obtain it a little later on, and especially the Super Shotgun - VEGA mentions that the priests kept it locked away from you, yet that storage area is.. in the middle of an open field, hanging over a random floating platform, not really guarded by any security systems or traps, except the enemies that just happen to be there, and it's delivered to you by a Revenant as if it were a holy offering.
To clarify; I actually like how Doom Eternal gives you weapons because the advantage of the non-diagetic design means the game can tease you about an incoming upgrade as an incentive to push onward, whereas with 2016 you basically just stumbled upon a weapon when the game decides it's time for you to have a weapon, with little buildup. It's just that elements like these, the extremely referential Fortress of Doom which actually features easter eggs calling back to id's history and even has you able to play the old wad on Doomguy's personal computer, made me look back at the story and sort of have a bit of a surreal experience where it almost felt like the game was fully aware that it was... a game, in a manner of speaking. In a way I felt like id added those elements because of the increase in story, as a way to remind people that Doom is still a game that knows it's a game at heart.
I also feel the story is surprisingly more sparse than people give it credit for, and that it still puts most of the lore and plot details for the player to figure out exactly what's going on if they so desire. It still adheres to Carmack's old story adage pretty faithfully and the only thing that really sets Eternal apart from 2016 in that regard is the presentation of it all. It's just that more than ever I also feel Eternal, in a way, calls back to not just old Doom games, but an era of games where the scale of the story exists as a way to offset how all these "gamey" elements require an additional layer in regards to suspension of disbelief - except in Eternal's case this was likely made vice versa, as it was clear even in Doom 2016 that they were setting up bigger things for the sequel.
I also find it funny when people criticize Doom Eternal for being hard to follow in regards to the shit you have to do when it follows basically the same plot structure of 2016 which was "Doomguy go here to do this so you can go there and do the thing". I'm not sure what about Eternal was hard or too esoteric to follow, only the Super Gore Nest comes across as the one narrative "diversion" in the game. Maybe people just don't like it when they name locations after things they have no frame of reference for.
However, I am firmly in the camp that it's consciously tongue-in-cheek, and I think the non-diagetic UX, as well as Fortress of Doom, are the best examples of this. These elements of the game are extremely game-y in a way that kind of run antithetical to the bombast of the narrative. As an example; in Doom 2016 you basically more or less stumble upon most weapons as you go along; usually the set piece of a dead space marine holding onto it. They reuse this a lot to give things a more grounded approach. Conversely in Doom Eternal the weapons are generally floating pickups with no rhyme or reason as to why they're floating and glowing, everyone just takes it as a matter of fact; notably the Chain Gun is teased before you actually obtain it a little later on, and especially the Super Shotgun - VEGA mentions that the priests kept it locked away from you, yet that storage area is.. in the middle of an open field, hanging over a random floating platform, not really guarded by any security systems or traps, except the enemies that just happen to be there, and it's delivered to you by a Revenant as if it were a holy offering.
To clarify; I actually like how Doom Eternal gives you weapons because the advantage of the non-diagetic design means the game can tease you about an incoming upgrade as an incentive to push onward, whereas with 2016 you basically just stumbled upon a weapon when the game decides it's time for you to have a weapon, with little buildup. It's just that elements like these, the extremely referential Fortress of Doom which actually features easter eggs calling back to id's history and even has you able to play the old wad on Doomguy's personal computer, made me look back at the story and sort of have a bit of a surreal experience where it almost felt like the game was fully aware that it was... a game, in a manner of speaking. In a way I felt like id added those elements because of the increase in story, as a way to remind people that Doom is still a game that knows it's a game at heart.
I also feel the story is surprisingly more sparse than people give it credit for, and that it still puts most of the lore and plot details for the player to figure out exactly what's going on if they so desire. It still adheres to Carmack's old story adage pretty faithfully and the only thing that really sets Eternal apart from 2016 in that regard is the presentation of it all. It's just that more than ever I also feel Eternal, in a way, calls back to not just old Doom games, but an era of games where the scale of the story exists as a way to offset how all these "gamey" elements require an additional layer in regards to suspension of disbelief - except in Eternal's case this was likely made vice versa, as it was clear even in Doom 2016 that they were setting up bigger things for the sequel.
I also find it funny when people criticize Doom Eternal for being hard to follow in regards to the shit you have to do when it follows basically the same plot structure of 2016 which was "Doomguy go here to do this so you can go there and do the thing". I'm not sure what about Eternal was hard or too esoteric to follow, only the Super Gore Nest comes across as the one narrative "diversion" in the game. Maybe people just don't like it when they name locations after things they have no frame of reference for.
Last edited:
I love the artstyle they have for the demons and angels, its sci fi looking like Halo but with demons, pretty cool
Just compare it to DMC 5
This is such a false narrative. There are several moments in Doom 2016 where the game locks you in a room to listen to story stuff:
I'm pretty sure these aren't even skippable, though correct me if I'm wrong. Every story scene in Eternal is skippable, and also takes itself way less seriously.
I feel like everyone here is forgetting the premise of Doom Guy in 2016. He was already "retconned" into being this nigh indestructable, unstoppable force who was the only thing that the demons of Hell (and Olivia) feared. The beginning of the game has you rise out of a mysterious sarcophagus that was discovered in one of Hayden's expeditions in Hell along with his armor. The very first "cutscene" (first person perspective scripted sequence) shows holograms of cultists worshiping the Doom Slayer's sarcophagus.
Did you guys read the Codex entries in Doom 2016?
Eh, not really. It's fairly grounded, all things considered, because it maintains it's tone ala Evil Dead 2.... Which I heard Hugo Martin is a massive fan of
I only played the first two levels of 2016 and know this from reading a few codex entries from the wiki.
You really don't see the difference between that mystery and intrigue in 2016 and the Transformers: Last Knight-esque writing of Eternal?
Just cus he had fantastical elements in the first game doesn't mean they can go full ham with badly written and uninteresting lore in the sequel. Especially when the additions take away from his personality and base appeal.
The Night Sentinals and Argent D'Nur are grounded? Maybe they're more grounded in the game because reading those on the wiki was the exact opposite of grounded.
There's a lot of amnesia going around regarding Doom. The Giant Bomb guys were for example complaining about the upgrade system in Eternal being far too complicated, even though it's the same as in 2016. The only difference is that the blue crystals are slightly more convoluted than the red orbs that gave you either more health, armor or ammo in 2016.
No I do not think it was a parody and I really love how Doom Eternal sort of puts the actions of the Slayer and Hayden in 2016 into a different context.
I also think the gameplay is leagues better than 2016. I beat the game on ultra-violence with an Xbox One controller for the record. I just rebound all the buttons into something that made sense for me.
I also think the gameplay is leagues better than 2016. I beat the game on ultra-violence with an Xbox One controller for the record. I just rebound all the buttons into something that made sense for me.
Man I loved Eternal. I even went back and 100%'ed it. Then replayed it with the unlocked cheat codes. Then played through Knee Deep in the Dead on DoomGuy's PC. The only things I didn't like was the purple goo and the fact you have to wait for the marauder to have a weakness (unlike every other recurring enemy in the game, if it was just the one boss fight it would have been fine).
From a story perspective the things I wanted resolved from 2016 was what happened when Hayden took the crucible and how did DoomGuy get to the Fortress? Did I miss that or was that left unresolved?
Otherwise I'll be signing up day 1 for the sequel and I'm already on board for the DLC.
From a story perspective the things I wanted resolved from 2016 was what happened when Hayden took the crucible and how did DoomGuy get to the Fortress? Did I miss that or was that left unresolved?
Otherwise I'll be signing up day 1 for the sequel and I'm already on board for the DLC.
It's optional to eat fries with your meal but if they suck it kinda brings down the whole thing.
Maybe 2016 is more serious, but it's more in line with the tone it established and is committed in making the objectives clear.
You can go too far with tongue n' cheek and Eternal does that.
I replayed 2016 right before Eternal and still thought how fucking cool it was.
Eternal THINKS is so cool and self referential, but it don't work.
Whenever people reminisce about how Doom 2016 didn't care about its story, that Doomguy was just some guy, and that it didn't have a shit ton of lore behind it, I feel like people are only selectively remembering what they wish Doom 2016 was about rather than what it was actually attempting to be.
If anything I think saying 2016 had an irreverent attitude to anything pertaining to world building and story does a disservice to all the subtle details they made which made the characters of that game memorable.
When you can't skip the story cutscenes, it absolutely is.
If anything I think saying 2016 had an irreverent attitude to anything pertaining to world building and story does a disservice to all the subtle details they made which made the characters of that game memorable.
When you can't skip the story cutscenes, it absolutely is.
I think the lore doesn't talk itself that seriously, but the game plays it very straight. If you just play the game, much like 2016, the story never really gets in your way if you don't want it to. It felt to me very tongue in cheek, like it skirted the line of being so ridiculous and dumb that it was actually really bad ass.
I don't even know how to express how it clicked for me, but it did and I had a shit eating grin reading every stupid proper noun. You don't have the Slayer flying through space in a gothic moon castle with his own personal demon slaughtering gym basement called the Ripatorium without it being obvious that you're being ridiculous on purpose. I felt like the entire game is a combination of names a 13 year old metal head thinks sound cool and a saturday morning cartoon.
I don't even know how to express how it clicked for me, but it did and I had a shit eating grin reading every stupid proper noun. You don't have the Slayer flying through space in a gothic moon castle with his own personal demon slaughtering gym basement called the Ripatorium without it being obvious that you're being ridiculous on purpose. I felt like the entire game is a combination of names a 13 year old metal head thinks sound cool and a saturday morning cartoon.
Huh? I played and beat Eternal on One X with a controller on Ultra Violence and never once was it a struggle nor did I find it anywhere close to "borderline unplayable".
while I agree with you
I think the story in 2016 wasnt annoying. In fact it worked well.
I thought it was great. You have all this sci-fi gobbledygook, but Doomguy is the one singular entity willing enough to undo it all, by any means necessary. Kinda makes the platforming sections funny in context. Is Doomguy gonna go home if no-one answers the front door? Fuck no, he's gonna walk through lava and clamber up walls with his big bear claws, just to shoot you in the face.
Plus it's all skippable, so it's instantly better than 2016.
Plus it's all skippable, so it's instantly better than 2016.
Again, a lot of the stuff being complained about in this thread IS in 2016, just that they are mostly constrained to the Codex entries. While 2016 is confined to two dimensions (UAC/Mars and Hell), it is constantly referencing the lore and locations that people are surprised to see in Eternal (the various dimensions/races/Sentinels), so I wasn't surprised at all and if anything, expected to see those things in the sequel. In Eternal, Doomguy travels to multiple dimensions/planets and as a result the player witnesses first hand a lot of the lore that was limited to simple codex entries and references in 2016, which was confined to only two dimensions (UAC/Mars and Hell). While the Eternal codex entries delves even FURTHER into the lore like 2016 did, you can't ignore as much of it since the player is actively exposed to the lore through the various locations and some dialog that 2016 already laid the groundwork for in its Codex.
As someone who found 2016's lore and codex fascinating, yet campy enough to feel "Doom-y", I mostly loved the fleshing out of the lore in Eternal. I especially liked
the "twist" with the origin of Argent Energy and the implication of it being the source of "miracles" that the Makyrs would perform on certain civilations/beings they deemed "worthy". I'm all about the religion/science intersection and the Makyrs' entire MO being a ruse to basically harvest their followers to sustain Urdak's energy source.
Last edited:
To be honest I don't know what people are expecting. They want to expand the Doom Universe for better or worse, and sequels are usually meant to flesh things out. I kind of like they went balls out on everything, no fear. Sure somethings didn't land, but we did get a lot of cool worlds, great combat, and almost a new feeling experience.
The hottest of takes.
On topic, the story is bollocks and I gave up following it. Fortunately, the game lets you skip cutscenes so you can get on with the glorious demon slaying.
As a tangent I'll admit I didn't read the OP, so I missed them saying the first game had no lore or story. They are wrong and it did.
My overall point, and disagreement with you, is not on the existence of the lore but rather the poor quality.
It's not very well written or interesting in Eternal. And adds too much unecesarily as to takeaway on basic elements on what was appealing in 2016.
They did, and the whole Argent D'Nur/Sentinels nonsense was kinda trash there too. Eternal just went ham with all that stuff.
I imagine the story being all over the place in Eternal is a result of them wanting more level variety. Doom 2016 is really grounded and gritty, but all the levels are either sci-fi Mars bases or Hell. Whereas in Eternal every level is it's own metal album cover with a distinct color palette. You have to sacrifice in one area to gain in another, I guess
I love Doom Eternal, it's like the best expansion pack I ever could have asked for as a child, but the story and tone are as if taken from an entirely different game than a sequel to 2016. If it's a parody, it's a parody that lasts the entire time and a great many cutscenes and thankfully it all can be skipped, whereas at least 2016 was, for me, a never ending grin. A lot in Eternal came across to me as just total stupidity.
The Slayer's ship room though? Gold Jerry. Gold.
I guess maybe we should really stop thinking of it as a sequel to 2016and more as just a straight up entry unto itself.
The Slayer's ship room though? Gold Jerry. Gold.
I guess maybe we should really stop thinking of it as a sequel to 2016and more as just a straight up entry unto itself.
Last edited:
Yah I would agree they should have kept everything in first person. It's weird because there are parts that are in first person for story tell (like the parts in the Colosseum), and parts that aren't...
The only times 2016 goes heavy on the serious fantasy story lore stuff are in Hell; the first being the Slayer Testament stuff which were praised mainly for showing the perspective of demons being terrified of Doomguy and introducing the hint that this really was Doomguy and not some rebooted character*, not because of the actual story implications. The second time was all the bad plodding stuff about Argent D'Nur and the Wraiths at the end of the game, which were by far viewed as the weakest link of the story, yet formed the foundation for the direction they went with in Eternal.
*Part of the reason I and others liked the "it's the same Doomguy" theory was to lessen the connection to the Sentinel/Argent D'Nur crap as much as possible.
*Part of the reason I and others liked the "it's the same Doomguy" theory was to lessen the connection to the Sentinel/Argent D'Nur crap as much as possible.
While their story in Eternal was still often flamboyant/absurd, it did feel like they started huffing their own farts a bit and took themselves too seriously after the success of 2016. They lost some of the irreverent feeling and drowned in their own lore instead.
I didn't hate it, I did think parts of it were interesting or fun. It had its moments. But it didn't capture the same feeling as the media they are claiming inspiration from, and they dropped the ball at a couple crucial junctures.
They famously said that their story for 2016 was frighteningly and irresponsibly last minute, so I'm inclined to think a portion of that success can be attributed to happy accident. A bunch of fired up artists/writers throwing a last minute hail mary and succeeding gloriously.
This time around, excited by the success of 2016's storytelling, they've taken their time to develop it into a complicated web soberly addressing every corner of their universe, and they've successfully... strangled it.
There are still moments of tongue-in-cheek humor in this game but they mix it into other moments of pure reverence and it ends up feeling indecisive, and overall much more straight than 2016.
I don't think Eternal's story was a success, but the gameplay is good enough to make that not a huge deal.
And they didn't even follow up on the single loose story thread from 2016 that people were actually cared about, which was Hayden walking off with that Crucible with Doomguy restrained. Hayden is suddenly an almost irrelevant pile of junk, that sword isn't the one we use we go get another one instead, and Doomguy is just chilling at home perfectly well. 2016's ending meant absolutely nothing, and to even get a hint of what happened you have to unlock a text blurb. No bueno.
I didn't hate it, I did think parts of it were interesting or fun. It had its moments. But it didn't capture the same feeling as the media they are claiming inspiration from, and they dropped the ball at a couple crucial junctures.
They famously said that their story for 2016 was frighteningly and irresponsibly last minute, so I'm inclined to think a portion of that success can be attributed to happy accident. A bunch of fired up artists/writers throwing a last minute hail mary and succeeding gloriously.
This time around, excited by the success of 2016's storytelling, they've taken their time to develop it into a complicated web soberly addressing every corner of their universe, and they've successfully... strangled it.
There are still moments of tongue-in-cheek humor in this game but they mix it into other moments of pure reverence and it ends up feeling indecisive, and overall much more straight than 2016.
I don't think Eternal's story was a success, but the gameplay is good enough to make that not a huge deal.
And they didn't even follow up on the single loose story thread from 2016 that people were actually cared about, which was Hayden walking off with that Crucible with Doomguy restrained. Hayden is suddenly an almost irrelevant pile of junk, that sword isn't the one we use we go get another one instead, and Doomguy is just chilling at home perfectly well. 2016's ending meant absolutely nothing, and to even get a hint of what happened you have to unlock a text blurb. No bueno.
Last edited:
Yeah, Doom 2016 had this basic history that gives to you the context, but everything else is up to your imagination. Doom guy/ Slayer was just like Saitama, this extremely powerful being that walk and kills.
I think ID did not expect that people would enjoy this basic lore as much as we did, and after that they tried to answer everything but no answer will be as good as the theories we create ourselves.
I remember playing Doom 2016 and wondering for how long Doom guy have been killing everything inside hell, how he got there, why he was found that way, how he could use any weapon, where his armor came from, why he didn't speak, how he understood people talking, why he saved Vega, how hell became part of human religion and many more things that ... Were great because of its mistery
I think ID did not expect that people would enjoy this basic lore as much as we did, and after that they tried to answer everything but no answer will be as good as the theories we create ourselves.
I remember playing Doom 2016 and wondering for how long Doom guy have been killing everything inside hell, how he got there, why he was found that way, how he could use any weapon, where his armor came from, why he didn't speak, how he understood people talking, why he saved Vega, how hell became part of human religion and many more things that ... Were great because of its mistery
Yeah I agree with you. I enjoyed Doomguy more when he was just a regular dude that gets almost comically pissed off at demons. So much so I feel s like he cares more about killing demons that saving people. This game is a strange case of many elements being improved on in the previous game, but not actually feeling like it was a better experience. There is too much of something somewhere and I can't out my finger on it. The mood and story are worse this time around.
Played both on PC so can't comment on the controller bit but I'd otherwise love to subscribe to your newsletter. If there's gonna be a thread seven years from now asking why the opinion flipped on Eternal, just wanna use this post to mark my line in the sand here and now.
Also FOH with this gaslighting "did you ever play 2016?" shit. Lmao. Which is it? Is it that Doom Eternal expands on the mechanics and lore (in my opinion for the worse) or is it that Eternal is the exact same game as 2016?
I could be misremembering it, but I don't think it's that far of a departure from Doom 2016. It seems like they took the underlying idea - YOU are essentially the demon to be feared by demons - and cranked it up to 11.
It's kind of corny, but I love the over the top approach. I can understand why some wouldn't, but it's not like we're talking about The Last of Us. This is an absurdly violent, over the top action game with an over the top story.