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Contramann

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,404
Gimmie a break.

Her "nuanced" piece opens with John Legend attacking Bernie Sanders supporters for their "nastiness". There's neither a political disagreement raised nor any example of the alleged nastiness. When you have hegemonic power over mass culture as elite liberals do, it's easy to convince yourself you are the only legitimate arbiter of acceptable discourse. But your opponents also have opinions, and guess what, we think you're nasty too. We just don't have 100 television channels to broadcast our views.

This piece is a mild example, but still contains many of the gross fingerprints which can be readily found in grosser forms elsewhere.

Examples include:
- Equating left wing movement politics with borderline fascist white nationalism
- Weaponizing identity politics to avoid serious political discourse
- Selective calls for "unity" against the GOP

The real donut brain part of this piece is right in the center:


Virtually no Bernie Sanders supporter believes this. It's foundational to a leftist that women can and should be successful in politics. I have personally volunteered for 3 female candidates for political office. It's liberals who I frequently hear doubting that a woman can win. Liberals want to believe US politics is hopelessly racist and sexist because they refuse to question any other aspects of their politics. They don't have a good answer for why the country which recently elected its first black president is 8 years later circling the drain of Nazism. They're unwilling to see the material conditions in which working people live and connect it to their own corporate-friendly policies (and those of the GOP). In a word, Liberals are unable to question capitalism. It doesn't help that many of them (in places of power) are rich assholes who only talk to other rich assholes.

Where Schultz goes from merely disingenuous to actually evil is right here:


Is there any doubt what she's talking about? My reading is that she is equating the Warren camp waiting weeks before the Iowa caucus to launch this attack with women such as Christine Blasey Ford waiting years to report their sexual assault. It's hard to imagine a more disgusting comparison. But Schultz is not the first to do it. The first instance I saw was from Center for American Progress head Neera Tanden:



I shouldn't have to explain what is wrong with this. "Believe women" is a progressive maxim with regard to many instances of oppression faced by women where the (*cough* bourgeois) legal system constantly fails. Sexual harassment in the workplace, sexual assault virtually anywhere, etc. The law rarely holds men accountable for their sexist crimes, so the least we can do is believe women who come forward with their story. It doesn't mean that women are above lying in all aspects of life. This is an essentialist perspective, which would be analytically problematic if it wasn't so transparently cynical. Misusing progressive slogans like this risks souring broad swaths of the public, jeopardizing significant social progress which has been achieved, most recently by the MeToo movement. To have it misused for cheap political expediency is appalling.

"This is not a good look, and it's a tired rerun from 2016." - indeed

Possibly the best post I've seen in this thread. Thanks for your insight.
 

HeyNay

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,495
Somewhere
Why sling dirt at a rival in the primary? I don't get it. If your rivals wins, all you've done is sullied their name, risked the integrity of their coalition, and weakened their position in the general. You share a common goal for fucks sake.
 

Sibylus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,728
Gimmie a break.

Her "nuanced" piece opens with John Legend attacking Bernie Sanders supporters for their "nastiness". There's neither a political disagreement raised nor any example of the alleged nastiness. When you have hegemonic power over mass culture as elite liberals do, it's easy to convince yourself you are the only legitimate arbiter of acceptable discourse. But your opponents also have opinions, and guess what, we think you're nasty too. We just don't have 100 television channels to broadcast our views.

This piece is a mild example, but still contains many of the gross fingerprints which can be readily found in grosser forms elsewhere.

Examples include:
- Equating left wing movement politics with borderline fascist white nationalism
- Weaponizing identity politics to avoid serious political discourse
- Selective calls for "unity" against the GOP

The real donut brain part of this piece is right in the center:


Virtually no Bernie Sanders supporter believes this. It's foundational to a leftist that women can and should be successful in politics. I have personally volunteered for 3 female candidates for political office. It's liberals who I frequently hear doubting that a woman can win. Liberals want to believe US politics is hopelessly racist and sexist because they refuse to question any other aspects of their politics. They don't have a good answer for why the country which recently elected its first black president is 8 years later circling the drain of Nazism. They're unwilling to see the material conditions in which working people live and connect it to their own corporate-friendly policies (and those of the GOP). In a word, Liberals are unable to question capitalism. It doesn't help that many of them (in places of power) are rich assholes who only talk to other rich assholes.

Where Schultz goes from merely disingenuous to actually evil is right here:


Is there any doubt what she's talking about? My reading is that she is equating the Warren camp waiting weeks before the Iowa caucus to launch this attack with women such as Christine Blasey Ford waiting years to report their sexual assault. It's hard to imagine a more disgusting comparison. But Schultz is not the first to do it. The first instance I saw was from Center for American Progress head Neera Tanden:



I shouldn't have to explain what is wrong with this. "Believe women" is a progressive maxim with regard to many instances of oppression faced by women where the (*cough* bourgeois) legal system constantly fails. Sexual harassment in the workplace, sexual assault virtually anywhere, etc. The law rarely holds men accountable for their sexist crimes, so the least we can do is believe women who come forward with their story. It doesn't mean that women are above lying in all aspects of life. This is an essentialist perspective, which would be analytically problematic if it wasn't so transparently cynical. Misusing progressive slogans like this risks souring broad swaths of the public, jeopardizing significant social progress which has been achieved, most recently by the MeToo movement. To have it misused for cheap political expediency is appalling.

"This is not a good look, and it's a tired rerun from 2016." - indeed

Gotta commend you for going to all this trouble amid this circus. Can't say I disagree with anything you've said, even if I haven't had the patience to talk about it in such length. Disgusted with liberals trying to co-opt this to score cheap zingers.
 

Jeremy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,639

LBsquared

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 22, 2019
1,603
I believe I have justified my perspective in good faith. I explained what I don't like and why I don't like it. If you don't want to actually address that, it's par for the course from this brand of politics honestly.
You did in fact justify your perspective. Is it any wonder you're not getting an actual good faith response?
 

Snowy

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
1,399
Gimmie a break.

Her "nuanced" piece opens with John Legend attacking Bernie Sanders supporters for their "nastiness". There's neither a political disagreement raised nor any example of the alleged nastiness. When you have hegemonic power over mass culture as elite liberals do, it's easy to convince yourself you are the only legitimate arbiter of acceptable discourse. But your opponents also have opinions, and guess what, we think you're nasty too. We just don't have 100 television channels to broadcast our views.

This piece is a mild example, but still contains many of the gross fingerprints which can be readily found in grosser forms elsewhere.

Examples include:
- Equating left wing movement politics with borderline fascist white nationalism
- Weaponizing identity politics to avoid serious political discourse
- Selective calls for "unity" against the GOP

The real donut brain part of this piece is right in the center:


Virtually no Bernie Sanders supporter believes this. It's foundational to a leftist that women can and should be successful in politics. I have personally volunteered for 3 female candidates for political office. It's liberals who I frequently hear doubting that a woman can win. Liberals want to believe US politics is hopelessly racist and sexist because they refuse to question any other aspects of their politics. They don't have a good answer for why the country which recently elected its first black president is 8 years later circling the drain of Nazism. They're unwilling to see the material conditions in which working people live and connect it to their own corporate-friendly policies (and those of the GOP). In a word, Liberals are unable to question capitalism. It doesn't help that many of them (in places of power) are rich assholes who only talk to other rich assholes.

Where Schultz goes from merely disingenuous to actually evil is right here:


Is there any doubt what she's talking about? My reading is that she is equating the Warren camp waiting weeks before the Iowa caucus to launch this attack with women such as Christine Blasey Ford waiting years to report their sexual assault. It's hard to imagine a more disgusting comparison. But Schultz is not the first to do it. The first instance I saw was from Center for American Progress head Neera Tanden:



I shouldn't have to explain what is wrong with this. "Believe women" is a progressive maxim with regard to many instances of oppression faced by women where the (*cough* bourgeois) legal system constantly fails. Sexual harassment in the workplace, sexual assault virtually anywhere, etc. The law rarely holds men accountable for their sexist crimes, so the least we can do is believe women who come forward with their story. It doesn't mean that women are above lying in all aspects of life. This is an essentialist perspective, which would be analytically problematic if it wasn't so transparently cynical. Misusing progressive slogans like this risks souring broad swaths of the public, jeopardizing significant social progress which has been achieved, most recently by the MeToo movement. To have it misused for cheap political expediency is appalling.

"This is not a good look, and it's a tired rerun from 2016." - indeed


This is an excellent post.
 

Leviathan

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,065
Why sling dirt at a rival in the primary? I don't get it. If your rivals wins, all you've done is sullied their name, risked the integrity of their coalition, and weakened their position in the general. You share a common goal for fucks sake.
They and the other candidates have, delicately, been slinging mud each other since this started. The only difference this time is a matter of who got dirty.
 

Kaneda

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
542
Gimmie a break.

Her "nuanced" piece opens with John Legend attacking Bernie Sanders supporters for their "nastiness". There's neither a political disagreement raised nor any example of the alleged nastiness. When you have hegemonic power over mass culture as elite liberals do, it's easy to convince yourself you are the only legitimate arbiter of acceptable discourse. But your opponents also have opinions, and guess what, we think you're nasty too. We just don't have 100 television channels to broadcast our views.

This piece is a mild example, but still contains many of the gross fingerprints which can be readily found in grosser forms elsewhere.

Examples include:
- Equating left wing movement politics with borderline fascist white nationalism
- Weaponizing identity politics to avoid serious political discourse
- Selective calls for "unity" against the GOP

The real donut brain part of this piece is right in the center:


Virtually no Bernie Sanders supporter believes this. It's foundational to a leftist that women can and should be successful in politics. I have personally volunteered for 3 female candidates for political office. It's liberals who I frequently hear doubting that a woman can win. Liberals want to believe US politics is hopelessly racist and sexist because they refuse to question any other aspects of their politics. They don't have a good answer for why the country which recently elected its first black president is 8 years later circling the drain of Nazism. They're unwilling to see the material conditions in which working people live and connect it to their own corporate-friendly policies (and those of the GOP). In a word, Liberals are unable to question capitalism. It doesn't help that many of them (in places of power) are rich assholes who only talk to other rich assholes.

Where Schultz goes from merely disingenuous to actually evil is right here:


Is there any doubt what she's talking about? My reading is that she is equating the Warren camp waiting weeks before the Iowa caucus to launch this attack with women such as Christine Blasey Ford waiting years to report their sexual assault. It's hard to imagine a more disgusting comparison. But Schultz is not the first to do it. The first instance I saw was from Center for American Progress head Neera Tanden:



I shouldn't have to explain what is wrong with this. "Believe women" is a progressive maxim with regard to many instances of oppression faced by women where the (*cough* bourgeois) legal system constantly fails. Sexual harassment in the workplace, sexual assault virtually anywhere, etc. The law rarely holds men accountable for their sexist crimes, so the least we can do is believe women who come forward with their story. It doesn't mean that women are above lying in all aspects of life. This is an essentialist perspective, which would be analytically problematic if it wasn't so transparently cynical. Misusing progressive slogans like this risks souring broad swaths of the public, jeopardizing significant social progress which has been achieved, most recently by the MeToo movement. To have it misused for cheap political expediency is appalling.

"This is not a good look, and it's a tired rerun from 2016." - indeed

Good post
 

woman

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,532
Atlanta
You're minimizing.

12% of 2016 Bernie primary supporters voted for Trump. That's obviously enough to have swung the general.
So what? The point is that supporters of a primary losing candidate didnt disproportionately support Trump. Hillary hit above her targets for Bernie supporters and still lost the election. The blame lies elsewhere.
 

BADMAN

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,887
To troll? Seriously?

I'm not going to bicker with someone who's characterizing that article as "actually evil." Nothing productive is going to come from that.

I'm happy to engage around these questions but not with sentiments that are that hyperbolic.

Also, if you're angling to police this thread for "trolling" but you're beginning with my post, you're glossing over an awful lot of egregious stuff that's been posted heretofore.
Seriously. And I don't really care if that's your intention. But don't act like you aren't if you refuse to take in what that post was actually saying and make a proper response. If that one point in the post was too hyperbolic for you, then respond to the other points.
 

PMS341

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt-account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
6,634
You're minimizing.

12% of 2016 Bernie primary supporters voted for Trump. That's obviously enough to have swung the general.

She still won the popular vote by ~3 million votes, but to be fair, it should never have even come close. She was running against arguably the worst candidate of all time and still lost, Sanders didn't have shit to do with that. Hell, he even campaigned for her in states she barely went to.

40% of eligible voters did not even show up in 2016. That is the actual issue, and those voters need to be spoken to in order to get their votes. Neither candidate spoke to the working class very well by that point, outside of Trump energizing his base to vote against their own interests, as they have for years.
 

WestEgg

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,047
Gimmie a break.

Her "nuanced" piece opens with John Legend attacking Bernie Sanders supporters for their "nastiness". There's neither a political disagreement raised nor any example of the alleged nastiness. When you have hegemonic power over mass culture as elite liberals do, it's easy to convince yourself you are the only legitimate arbiter of acceptable discourse. But your opponents also have opinions, and guess what, we think you're nasty too. We just don't have 100 television channels to broadcast our views.

This piece is a mild example, but still contains many of the gross fingerprints which can be readily found in grosser forms elsewhere.

Examples include:
- Equating left wing movement politics with borderline fascist white nationalism
- Weaponizing identity politics to avoid serious political discourse
- Selective calls for "unity" against the GOP

The real donut brain part of this piece is right in the center:


Virtually no Bernie Sanders supporter believes this. It's foundational to a leftist that women can and should be successful in politics. I have personally volunteered for 3 female candidates for political office. It's liberals who I frequently hear doubting that a woman can win. Liberals want to believe US politics is hopelessly racist and sexist because they refuse to question any other aspects of their politics. They don't have a good answer for why the country which recently elected its first black president is 8 years later circling the drain of Nazism. They're unwilling to see the material conditions in which working people live and connect it to their own corporate-friendly policies (and those of the GOP). In a word, Liberals are unable to question capitalism. It doesn't help that many of them (in places of power) are rich assholes who only talk to other rich assholes.

Where Schultz goes from merely disingenuous to actually evil is right here:


Is there any doubt what she's talking about? My reading is that she is equating the Warren camp waiting weeks before the Iowa caucus to launch this attack with women such as Christine Blasey Ford waiting years to report their sexual assault. It's hard to imagine a more disgusting comparison. But Schultz is not the first to do it. The first instance I saw was from Center for American Progress head Neera Tanden:



I shouldn't have to explain what is wrong with this. "Believe women" is a progressive maxim with regard to many instances of oppression faced by women where the (*cough* bourgeois) legal system constantly fails. Sexual harassment in the workplace, sexual assault virtually anywhere, etc. The law rarely holds men accountable for their sexist crimes, so the least we can do is believe women who come forward with their story. It doesn't mean that women are above lying in all aspects of life. This is an essentialist perspective, which would be analytically problematic if it wasn't so transparently cynical. Misusing progressive slogans like this risks souring broad swaths of the public, jeopardizing significant social progress which has been achieved, most recently by the MeToo movement. To have it misused for cheap political expediency is appalling.

"This is not a good look, and it's a tired rerun from 2016." - indeed

I'll add one more for "good post"
 

Deleted member 3896

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,815
Seriously. And I don't really care if that's your intention. But don't act like you aren't if you refuse to take in what that post was actually saying and make a proper response. If that one point in the post was too hyperbolic for you, then respond to the other points.
No.

I'm under no obligation to "take in" a post which centers in part around the premise that the article I shared is "actually evil."
 

LBsquared

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 22, 2019
1,603
The poster is throwing around "actual evil" and "donut brain" yet I'm expected to believe this a good faith engagement?
They said lots of things. Respond to the points you don't find personally offensive and explain why those two points offend you so much.

Applying "Believe Women" to this situation is fucking absurd.
 

Jeremy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,639
She still won the popular vote by ~3 million votes, but to be fair, it should never have even come close. She was running against arguably the worst candidate of all time and still lost, Sanders didn't have shit to do with that. Hell, he even campaigned for her in states she barely went to.

40% of eligible voters did not even show up in 2016. That is the actual issue, and those voters need to be spoken to in order to get their votes. Neither candidate spoke to the working class very well by that point, outside of Trump energizing his base to vote against their own interests, as they have for years.

Yeah, this is fair of course... I'm not even trying to lay blame at Bernie's feet for 2016....

I just remember the nastiness toward Clinton from some Bernie Bros during that election (even after the primary) and am 0% surprised that the same trends are happening with Warren.

Obviously, I'm not trying to say that all Bernie supporters are like this.
 

Deleted member 3896

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,815
They said lots of things. Respond to the points you don't find personally offensive and explain why those two points offend you so much.

Applying "Believe Women" to this situation is fucking absurd.
As I noted in my interactions earlier, this is a very reductive read of the article's point around the expectations around women.
 

BADMAN

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,887
No.

I'm under no obligation to "take in" a post which centers in part around the premise that the article I shared is "actually evil."
You act like the post was in bad faith when in reality it's a well thought out post full of good observations you don't like.

Labeling it as bad faith is either trolling, or you can't tell the difference between well argued thoughts and bad faith. For your sake I hope it's the former.
 

Kazooie

Member
Jul 17, 2019
5,011
Why sling dirt at a rival in the primary? I don't get it. If your rivals wins, all you've done is sullied their name, risked the integrity of their coalition, and weakened their position in the general. You share a common goal for fucks sake.
It's the prisoner's dilemma: If no one slings shit at each other, then they all benefit, but from an egoistical perspective, it is always better to be a huge shit-thrower.
 

Deleted member 3896

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,815
You act like the post was in bad faith when in reality it's a well thought out post full of good observations you don't like.

Labeling it as bad faith is either trolling, or you can't tell the difference between well argued thoughts and bad faith. For your sake I hope it's the former.
It's neither.

And I'm a little flabbergasted that some are suggesting there's an expectation, or in many cases, even a demand, for people to engage with posts that use inflammatory, over the top language, takes and characterizations.

I hesitated to even give this thread any more oxygen as there are much bigger fish to fry, but I liked Shultz's perspective. I didn't come here to bicker, much less "troll."
 

Kerwop

Member
Dec 15, 2017
396
No.

I'm under no obligation to "take in" a post which centers in part around the premise that the article I shared is "actually evil."

It seems more like an easy way for you to get out of responding to a well written post. Couple that with smiley faces and "Thanks for the post!" and its pretty clear who the bad faith poster is.
 

woman

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,532
Atlanta
  • Warren may have felt pressure to keep her interaction with Sanders private to avoid backlash and maintain a politically advantageous alliance.
  • Rape culture pressures victims of sexual assault into silence and secrecy.
Connie Schultz: "these are the same thing"
 
Oct 25, 2017
21,438
Sweden
I hate to be all "both sides" but when it comes to political discussion online, there are definitely toxic supporters that make their candidates look bad on all sides. I've seen a lot of aggressive Sanders supporters on twitter, coming up with personal attacks about the integrity of other candidates (e.g. snake emojis). And I've seen a lot of disingenuous posts from Centrists. On here, I've been accused of lying a few times by Centrist posters, when the problem actually lies with their own reading comprehension skills. I've seen people dismiss entire posts that are well-written, thoughtful and persuasive, just because of a single word choice they disagree with

But, the important point is, these people are the minority. It's difficult to realize that when they shout the loudest in these debates. In the end, we need to worry less about the mudslinging and tone debates, and more about actual policy. The policy differences between Democratic party candidates are important. Even more important are the policy differences between the progressive agenda most of us believe in and the awful reactionism of the Republican party. Supporters of Sanders and Warren are natural allies. This infighting is just depressing and counterproductive
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,927
In case anyone had no idea what the term "donut brain" refers to, it is not this marketing group or this hit song.

Rather, it's a new term for "neoliberals" and "centrists" that sprung up after Nina Turner and a group were upset at the DNC for not allowing them to crash a meeting, and instead they were offered donuts and water and some Clinton supporter on twitter suggested people should put a donut in their twitter names like leftist twitter does with the rose.
 

Jeremy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,639
If you just assume those people would have voted for Hillary Clinton if Bernie didn't exist. That's a huge assumption.

I definitely don't assume that.

Democratic politics, to a larger degree than comparatively homogeneous GOP politics, tends to be about forming coalitions. Some unsavory types or vocal minorities with views that I don't agree with are likely to exist in any leftist candidate's coalition.

That's why the left always seems to fight within its own ranks to a greater degree than the right, for sure.
 

Shaun Solo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,079
Gimmie a break.

Her "nuanced" piece opens with John Legend attacking Bernie Sanders supporters for their "nastiness". There's neither a political disagreement raised nor any example of the alleged nastiness. When you have hegemonic power over mass culture as elite liberals do, it's easy to convince yourself you are the only legitimate arbiter of acceptable discourse. But your opponents also have opinions, and guess what, we think you're nasty too. We just don't have 100 television channels to broadcast our views.

This piece is a mild example, but still contains many of the gross fingerprints which can be readily found in grosser forms elsewhere.

Examples include:
- Equating left wing movement politics with borderline fascist white nationalism
- Weaponizing identity politics to avoid serious political discourse
- Selective calls for "unity" against the GOP

The real donut brain part of this piece is right in the center:


Virtually no Bernie Sanders supporter believes this. It's foundational to a leftist that women can and should be successful in politics. I have personally volunteered for 3 female candidates for political office. It's liberals who I frequently hear doubting that a woman can win. Liberals want to believe US politics is hopelessly racist and sexist because they refuse to question any other aspects of their politics. They don't have a good answer for why the country which recently elected its first black president is 8 years later circling the drain of Nazism. They're unwilling to see the material conditions in which working people live and connect it to their own corporate-friendly policies (and those of the GOP). In a word, Liberals are unable to question capitalism. It doesn't help that many of them (in places of power) are rich assholes who only talk to other rich assholes.

Where Schultz goes from merely disingenuous to actually evil is right here:


Is there any doubt what she's talking about? My reading is that she is equating the Warren camp waiting weeks before the Iowa caucus to launch this attack with women such as Christine Blasey Ford waiting years to report their sexual assault. It's hard to imagine a more disgusting comparison. But Schultz is not the first to do it. The first instance I saw was from Center for American Progress head Neera Tanden:



I shouldn't have to explain what is wrong with this. "Believe women" is a progressive maxim with regard to many instances of oppression faced by women where the (*cough* bourgeois) legal system constantly fails. Sexual harassment in the workplace, sexual assault virtually anywhere, etc. The law rarely holds men accountable for their sexist crimes, so the least we can do is believe women who come forward with their story. It doesn't mean that women are above lying in all aspects of life. This is an essentialist perspective, which would be analytically problematic if it wasn't so transparently cynical. Misusing progressive slogans like this risks souring broad swaths of the public, jeopardizing significant social progress which has been achieved, most recently by the MeToo movement. To have it misused for cheap political expediency is appalling.

"This is not a good look, and it's a tired rerun from 2016." - indeed

Fantastic post.

Apropos of nothing, the ignore feature on era is great.
 

Jeremy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,639
But, the important point is, these people are the minority. It's difficult to realize that when they shout the loudest in these debates. In the end, we need to worry less about the mudslinging and tone debates, and more about actual policy. The policy differences between Democratic party candidates are important. Even more important are the policy differences between the progressive agenda most of us believe in and the awful reactionism of the Republican party. Supporters of Sanders and Warren are natural allies. This infighting is just depressing and counterproductive

Yeah, well-said.

If the various factions of the left (and center-left) don't get past their differences, we're self-defeating.
 

Deleted member 426

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,273
And I'm a little flabbergasted that some are suggesting there's an expectation, or in many cases, even a demand, for people to engage with posts that use inflammatory, over the top language, takes and characterizations.
I agree, I don't think anyone should have to engage with your inflammatory over the top language, takes and characterisations.
 

Deleted member 3896

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,815

Snake Eater

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,385
Could trump of asked for a better scenario than Warren and sanders supporters at each other's throats?
 

Baji Boxer

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,376
We surely had to realize from the start of this cycle after 2016 that a lot of Bernie bros would never have voted for Warren had she gotten the nomination.
Why?
You're minimizing.

12% of 2016 Bernie primary supporters voted for Trump. That's obviously enough to have swung the general.
It's also a fairly normal amount of turnover in every election, it doesn't take into account turnover from the other direction, and around 80% of those people were centerists/conservatives acording to the same surveys and studies around the surveys. Lets stop pushing these misleading narratives based on poor understandings of statistics.
 

Valiant

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,310


I shouldn't have to explain what is wrong with this. "Believe women" is a progressive maxim with regard to many instances of oppression faced by women where the (*cough* bourgeois) legal system constantly fails. Sexual harassment in the workplace, sexual assault virtually anywhere, etc. The law rarely holds men accountable for their sexist crimes, so the least we can do is believe women who come forward with their story. It doesn't mean that women are above lying in all aspects of life. This is an essentialist perspective, which would be analytically problematic if it wasn't so transparently cynical. Misusing progressive slogans like this risks souring broad swaths of the public, jeopardizing significant social progress which has been achieved, most recently by the MeToo movement. To have it misused for cheap political expediency is appalling.

"This is not a good look, and it's a tired rerun from 2016." - indeed


So you don't count misogyny as a type of sexual harassment since it's based on one's sex?

Good luck with that.
 

Jeremy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,639
Why?

It's also a fairly normal amount of turnover in every election, it doesn't take into account turnover from the other direction, and around 80% of those people were centerists/conservatives acording to the same surveys and studies around the surveys. Lets stop pushing these misleading narratives based on poor understandings of statistics.

The point of bringing this up is not to assign blame about 2016.

The point is to recognize that this faction, which would likely also be against Warren, is a sizeable chunk of Bernie's coalition.

That doesn't mean Bernie is anything less as a candidate. It is what it is.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
As I noted in my interactions earlier, this is a very reductive read of the article's point around the expectations around women.
No it's not. She literally directly conflates the Warren and Sanders context with me too (about believing women), and even provides a sexual harassment example to drive the point home.

It's disgusting and you should stop defending it.
 

Powdered Egg

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
17,070
They feel similar. What did she just suddenly decide she was offended by something said behind closed doors? Then follows up with "How could you say I lied on national tv??" When it's like.... Bernie didn't bring it up. As well as, what does she expect him to say? It's so performative on her part. I still like her as a candidate, but both displays there's something childish about it. She really calculates thinking she's "gonna have a moment" wrong
LOL. I'm still down to vote for her if she wins the primary but these stunts have been silly. I wonder what other weird errors her future holds.
 

Valiant

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,310
User Banned (3 days): antagonizing other members
No it's not. She literally directly conflates the Warren and Sanders context with me too (about believing women), and even provides a sexual harassment example to drive the point home.

It's disgusting and you should stop defending it.

Ok Fascist.
 
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