#3 is what killed him in 2016 and will kill him in 2020 unfortunately.
The vast majority of us have Warren as our #2, which is fine. Some on this board think we're just woman hating bros that ride or die for Bernie.
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Warren passes Biden in nationwide poll for the first time (Quinnipiac)
- Thread starter Cerium
- Start date
#3 is what killed him in 2016 and will kill him in 2020 unfortunately.
The vast majority of us have Warren as our #2, which is fine. Some on this board think we're just woman hating bros that ride or die for Bernie.
Keep in mind who gets polled. A large number of voters, including a large number of those who get polled, are upper-middle to upper class white people who can afford to not really pay attention to most any policy outside of party line issues like abortion rights and the general notion of LGBTQ+ rights, and choose politicians for likability as much as anything else. It's how you see the polls with Biden voters picking Bernie second and vice versa, and same with Warren and Harris, in spite of each pairing not really sharing much in common policy wise unless you take it on a really truncated political scale. I seem to remember one poll from a few years back indicating the whole "would I like to have a barbecue/drink/lunch with this candidate?" thing was actually the number one decision maker for a scary (imo) amount of voters, INCLUDING low income voters.
There are other factors, such as perceived electability, but likability seems the major one in that "first choice, second choice" case.
I really don't get why so many Bernie supporters just get assumed to be the "Bernie Bro" type on this board (as opposed to Twitter where it makes a bit more sense perhaps). Like, it's a smaller coalition, but Sanders definitely has a coalition of people supporting him, it's not just annoying cishet white dudes who are irony poisoned. Like I said earlier: I agree with you, I'm okay with Warren, she's just not my top pick for a number of reasons. But she'd not be horrible.
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Yes the other person getting more votes is how you not win the nomination.
I mean, there are some incredibly fundamental differences in how they want to approach things they've both identified as problems. She's not even really put out a healthcare plan beyond vague gesturing towards M4A, he specifically wants single payer, as an example among a good number. But, again, that she even acknowledges the problems is important, as it does somewhat pave the road for congresspeople like Bernie as well as AOC to pitch their own more leftist bills that I'm sure she'd sign if they get them through as they are fixes to things she knows are problems. Bills that I'm not sure someone like Biden WOULD sign or try to curry support for.
But I will say, that she has adopted Inslee's plan for climate change is a HUGE plus from me, as someone super concerned about the climate. Bernie's is good, but that one is about as good.
As if the wife of Bill Clinton wasn't going to win the south against a relatively unknown candidate.
As if the Husband of Jane Sanders didn't completely abandon the South and thusly the Black Vote.
I guess the best way to name reconigtion is to never step foot in the place you want votes
Bernie could have spent his entire time in the south and still never would have won that vote. Let's stop pretending like Hillary was never considered the coronated one in 2016.
Sounds like excuses for not addressing or talking to arguably the most important Democratic group.
Funny you talk about coronations when Bernie's online staff and supporters want Warren to drop out even while she is gaining.
Like 'it's his turn?'
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That is what you said. Not th South or black people's fault that Sanders couldn't be added to even try
User Warned: Inflammatory generalizations
I had no idea how much HRC voters hated Sanders until i started following the politics threads in here more often.
They absolutely hate him, they hate his supporters, his staff, progressive journalists who are nice to him, i mean, everything remotely close to Sanders.
In the end this might be what stops him from winning, i think he´s due for a bounce back, but the hate is still flowing strong. Once the process of Warren x Sanders becomes more clear, we will reach new levels of hate from people who went from Hillary to Warren.
I have no idea how to contain this hate if i was a campaign manager for Sanders.
Just hope Warren is willing to restructure the courts below SCOTUS - which has been done before and generally passes by without notice - to dilute the power Trump's appointees will have.
I used to think anything more than creating a 10th seat for Merrick Garland (since his nomination was never even taken up by the Senate) would be a tough sell, but depending on how bad Trump looks after, a case could probably be made that we'd need an 11th justice as well to balance out Gorusch and Kavanaugh's votes and create a liberal majority.
Not sure which forum you're reading, Sanders and Warren have similar levels of popularity around here.
Whine about jilted Clinton supporters all you want, the fact is Sanders is polling around ~15% after winning ~42% of the vote in 2016. Even if flipping Clinton voters in 2016 was never on the table, he has no excuse for not doing significantly better than he is now.
But oh look, low post count from an account created two years ago that's not American.
Is it possible to recall those two seats as they may have been compromised?
Only through impeachment, which uses the same process as presidential impeachment and is extremely unlikely to happen even with Dem control of both chambers of Congress.
As a Bernie supporter:
As much criticism as Hillary deserves for not campaigning in the Rust Belt, Bernie does for not campaigning in the South. He's a good man, better than most politicians, but he, nor anyone, is perfect. I for one refuse to believe he couldn't have done much better in 2016, if not won, if he campaigned there. It was a massive oversight. Like, shit, at the time, I knew of several Southern folks- both marginalized folks and white cishets- who said they'd gladly vote for Bernie if Trump got the Republican nomination (which he was basically guaranteed at the time compared to Hillary v Bernie) but would just stay home if it was Clinton vs. Trump. That was a ripe field of nonvoters he just skipped over that he could've energized. There's no defending it. Even if he only got one extra state, that might not have pushed him over Hillary, but I'd argue it could have its effect on his campaign now.
I know, I know, it's anecdotal. But I find it strange that I'd talk to basically only the unicorns who are okay with Bernie, or, say, Jeb (I don't even remember who they were hoping for R side among those who were traditionally Republican), but neither of the eventual actual nominees...
As much criticism as Hillary deserves for not campaigning in the Rust Belt, Bernie does for not campaigning in the South. He's a good man, better than most politicians, but he, nor anyone, is perfect. I for one refuse to believe he couldn't have done much better in 2016, if not won, if he campaigned there. It was a massive oversight. Like, shit, at the time, I knew of several Southern folks- both marginalized folks and white cishets- who said they'd gladly vote for Bernie if Trump got the Republican nomination (which he was basically guaranteed at the time compared to Hillary v Bernie) but would just stay home if it was Clinton vs. Trump. That was a ripe field of nonvoters he just skipped over that he could've energized. There's no defending it. Even if he only got one extra state, that might not have pushed him over Hillary, but I'd argue it could have its effect on his campaign now.
I know, I know, it's anecdotal. But I find it strange that I'd talk to basically only the unicorns who are okay with Bernie, or, say, Jeb (I don't even remember who they were hoping for R side among those who were traditionally Republican), but neither of the eventual actual nominees...
Bernie's been campaigning hard in the South this time, and Bernie did campaign heavily in North Carolina last time. In 2016, he just felt there was no way he could crack the South at all, and he had very limited resources, so he had to pick and choose where to fight. He didn't even make 15% in Mississippi.
Bernie's actually doing relatively well in the South this time according to polling, though Warren is starting to eat into him as Bernie is starting to become a 2nd-tier candidate down with Harris/Beto/Buttigieg.
I think it's unfair to criticize Bernie for a decision made in order to maximize his slim shot at winning.
Easiest method is to use the issues with those two as justification for court-stacking , which just requires a majority of both houses of Congress (gotta win Senate for that)
Bernie's actually doing relatively well in the South this time according to polling, though Warren is starting to eat into him as Bernie is starting to become a 2nd-tier candidate down with Harris/Beto/Buttigieg.
I think it's unfair to criticize Bernie for a decision made in order to maximize his slim shot at winning.
Easiest method is to use the issues with those two as justification for court-stacking , which just requires a majority of both houses of Congress (gotta win Senate for that)
After South Carolina his AA outreach team sent a stark message up to Bernie and the Senior leadership: If you don't fix your margins with black voters, you will lose. Instead of actually trying to campaign there after SC, he just kept doing what he was doing and stayed in "friendly" territory. And that led to some internal
Bernie didn't need to win a majority of black voters to win, but he needed to win way more than he did to actually have a shot. The idea that black voters were uniquely married to Clinton/Biden establishment types doesn't really hold up ('04/'08), especially now that we're seeing Warren already at 19% when her total share is in the 20s while Bernie ended up winning only 25%. I said in 2015/16 that there was a major issue with the way Bernie spoke about race/class relative to Warren. Warren could intertwine the two topics effortlessly, while Sanders had a very difficult time speaking about them concurrently, with his speeches often separating them into individual sections.
I don't know if he could have fixed his margins by campaigning more without fixing that messaging issue, but he had to at least try in order to have a chance at winning instead of just being a glorified protest candidate pretending to be a viable candidate. And not doing the work in 2016 was not just going to hurt the 2016 run, but also the 2020 one.
You are dead on. Both of them were not fans of going outside their comfort zone, which is probably something to remember in future elections when backing a candidate.
Its Warren Vs Bernie.
You dont have HRC to club people with anymore. Bernie doesn't have any real excuse for not getting the votes this time around. He has 100% name recognition.
Is there some interesting new polling or did you just want this bump this thread?
on shit, my bad. I probably had this tab open for months and didn't realize, thought this was news (to give you an idea I have 34 tabs open right now).
and for a corny pun, no less. this is embarrassing...
Strangely enough, there is news. In the new Quinnipiac poll, Warren holds a 7-point lead over the next highest candidate, Biden.
USA Today
lmao. Good news Extra Sauce, this isn't embarrassing, this is just you discovering your sixth sense.
