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cnorwood

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,343
Bernie did not lose because of Warren staying in the race or not endorsing him. This is simply a ridiculous take. Warren's voters went to Biden more than Bernie Sanders once she exited. Also, Bloomberg siphoned more votes away from Biden but that didn't stop other candidates supporters from coalescing around him. Instead of pointing the finger at everybody else, perhaps take a second and realize that sometimes the blame lies with the candidate himself.




The policies have never been the issue. I wish that those who SCREAM online support for these policies actually showed up and voted for them if they supported Bernie. How come they didn't? That's what's disappointing.
I never said Bernie lost because of Warren, you did. I'm saying she she said she was like Bernie but younger, she pretended to be his friend and have some sort of alliance, then all of a sudden goes against the person who she says she is most politically aligned with.


Its always been about the policies, I personally don't give a fuck about Bernie Sanders as a person. I don't know anything about him really other than his policies. And I did show up to vote, I actually voted 2 weeks early and volunteered for the campaign so I don't know what the fuck you are talking about. Maybe there were less people screaming online than you think.
 

game-biz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,711
Warren needs to stay in the senate. It's very important. And I don't see how Warren being Biden's VP will help him politically, either. The best choice would be Kamala Harris.
 
Staff Post: Not a Primary Relitigation Thread

Poodlestrike

Smooth vs. Crunchy
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
13,489
Official Staff Communication
Reminder that this is a thread about sexual assault allegations, not the primary as a whole or the 2016 election. This isn't a place to discuss why a particular candidate did or did not do well in the primary, but to discuss the allegations and any potential ramifications they might have. Please do not derail the thread with general discussion, meta-commentary, or trolling, and avoid personal attacks towards other members.
 

Xx 720

Member
Nov 3, 2017
3,920
The democrat nomination process is all wrong, that's why we ended up with this mess. Stop letting red states dominate the process, South Carolina, Texas etc. are unlikely to go blue, they should go last in the nomination process.
It should be Midwest/ rust belt, then southwest, New England states, coastal states then end with the Deep South. This would of almost certainly spared us having a rapey Biden as our nominee.
 

Ketkat

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,727
I mean, you've stated that all the Biden camp has does is said "I didn't do it" which is false, as has been documented in this thread. And you're suggesting that Warren, despite her saying that Reade deserves to be heard, is brushing allegations under the rug. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the meaning of brushing something under the rug, but Warren dealing with the question head on and saying that Reade deserves to be heard don't strike me as "brushing something under the rug."

Are you not reading the quote that's in the article that this thread is about? She's saying that she deserves to be heard, but when questioned about an independent investigation she comes out and says " I think what the vice president has said is convincing, and I support him" That's straight up saying that an investigation like that is not necessary because she believes Biden
 

Deleted member 17184

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,240
Not shocked at all that Warren isn't even half as progressive as she claims to be. I bet her response would be very different if she had a chance to be president.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,975
You mean like how Tara Reade is definitely a Russian agent of Putin? Cause that got annoying after hearing that for weeks.
I and others have denounced that as well. It doesn't matter which side it comes from, disingenuous shit takes and conspiracy theories help nobody.

This framing is ridiculous and purposefully paints one group as white (when that's clearly not true).

Okay but a large portion of those who are pushing some of these harmful narratives are. And a lot of them are DSA members.

I've been to a few DSA chapters and the membership in them is overwhelmingly white to such a degree I'm hesitant to change my framing here when I see these garbage conspiracy theories being pushed online mainly by these people. Also have not appreciated seeing the ridiculous amounts of low-information racism being thrown around when it comes to how certain communities vote or who they vote for by these people. It doesn't stop them from telling us what's good for our communities though. And that's been commonplace for a while now.
 

GYODX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,233
The issue is that same presumption of telling the truth is not afforded to victims of sexual assault like Reade. People immediately assumed that she was a Russian plant, doing it for financial or political gain, or just lying for the fun of it when realistically we know that the vast vast majority of allegations like these are not lies. For some reason (rhetorical) powerful men are afforded massive defenses of presumptions of innocence while people are constantly smearing victims for daring to speak up. This isn't even a recent phenomenon either, but one that has been one of the constant main reasons of why victims don't speak up in the first place. See below for an example of why victims don't speak up



Yeah, brush allegations under the rug for "Unity"
I agree with your point about the power disparity and also the fact that the vast, vast majority of rape victims for whom there is never justice merits tipping the scale in favor of believing the accuser even when they have no evidence of their accusation.

However, I don't agree that this implies being dogmatic about it or not scrutinizing the accuser's account at all. In my view, both the accuser and the accused account's should be scrutinized--and not in the sense of 'oh, she's written some weird stuff about Putin' or the 'oh, she's no angel' BS a lot of people are unfortunately peddling, but scrutinizing both accounts for consistency and how well they align with the limited facts that we do have at our disposal, and coming to your own conclusions on a case-by-case basis. I don't think that's inconsistent with wanting to do right by victims.
 

cnorwood

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,343
Wrong again. I'm black as well.

You had no issue with Bernie defending "uncomfortable" racist white voters who didn't vote for Gillum? Copping for racist white voters in Mississippi?
Bruh I only give a fuck about the policies. I don't give a fuck about his feelings about racists or anything. He had no racist policies as far as I can tell so that's all I care about. I'm not into "politics." IMO this was the only chance to have a massive wealth redistribution and a real green energy movement for the foreseeable future but people cared more about what he said to people you don't like.


edit: just saw the threadmark. So I'm out
 

Shy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
18,520
*sigh* i fucking hate that this is the situation we find ourselves in.
 

ToTheMoon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,323
Not shocked at all that Warren isn't even half as progressive as she claims to be. I bet her response would be very different if she had a chance to be president.

Whether Tara Reade's deserves to be heard could conceivably be called a partisan issue (and Warren is taking the progressive stance on that).

Whether Biden's account is credible or not is a completely different sort of question, and trying to read partisan politics into it is extremely dangerous and disrespectful to victims who are trying to share their truth. A victim's story should be examined with facts and evidence, not through the lens of political partisanship.
 
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Deleted member 3896

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,815
Are you not reading the quote that's in the article that this thread is about? She's saying that she deserves to be heard, but when questioned about an independent investigation she comes out and says " I think what the vice president has said is convincing, and I support him" That's straight up saying that an investigation like that is not necessary because she believes Biden
So Warren stating that Reade deserves to be heard but that based on what she's seen and heard so far that she's formed an opinion that disagrees with yours means she's "sweeping it under the rug"?

If the Biden camp had simply said, "nope, cased closed!" then I could see your point, but based on the actions of the Biden camp and their call for transparency and the release of any complaints and related documents I can't agree with your assessment of the situation with regard to Warren's stance here.
 

Barbarossa

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,264
This was expected, and the calls to not vote against Trump in light of the 71,000 American deaths due to the incompetence and outright neglect of the current administration are pretty disgusting. I get that some think that things will go their way politically the further that living conditions of average Americans deteriorates, but that is not what the majority want or believe. If you feel that going against the grain and sitting this election out is the moral decision then you're more than entitled to your opinion, and in no way do I expect survivors of sexual assault to be burdened with voting for someone that has an allegation against him. Yet the fact remains that there are those of us that can't and won't take four more years of this farce. A reversal of the current status quo, as well as whatever progressive legislation that can come out of a Dem controlled House and Senate will positively affect millions of Amercans, especially those who are currently suffering the most.

Four more years of Trump and a generational loss of the Supreme Court would make the last few years seem like progressive heaven.
 

GYODX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,233
Really? Friends, family and neighbor all recollect Tara telling them about the assault at the time.
Didn't the neighbor backtrack a little and say that she thought Biden seemed credible as well?

They're actively pushing me into becoming more of a dirty LIBERAL than a LEFTIST. I don't suffer delusions and conspiracy theories.
I started embracing the term when I took a peek at /r/ChapoTrapHouse. I mean, I might strongly disagree with the more left-leaning, socialist-types on this forum, but they have *nothing* on the sort of deranged losers that frequent that subreddit. Nothing but revenge fantasies and openly admitting that they
hate the dirty libs more than they hate the fascists and that they'd prefer 4 more years of Trump over Biden.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,975
Would love to see Warren as VP but the Senate is more important and while we'd likely re-take the seat in the special election, waiting 6 months for that isn't practical.

Arizona, Maine, Colorado, North Carolina and Montana minus Alabama give us 49. We'd have to pick up two of Kansas, Iowa and Georgia losing Warren's seat. That's too much of a gamble.
 
Dec 31, 2017
7,085
I mean, I'm not totally surprised; Joe is the nominee, everyone will line up behind him. On the other hand, I am a LITTLE surprised that such a milquetoast statement is coming from someone who ethered Michael Bloomberg on her way out for inappropriate conduct.
 

XMonkey

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,827
Would love to see Warren as VP but the Senate is more important and while we'd likely re-take the seat in the special election, waiting 6 months for that isn't practical.

Arizona, Maine, Colorado, North Carolina and Montana minus Alabama give us 49. We'd have to pick up two of Kansas, Iowa and Georgia losing Warren's seat. That's too much of a gamble.
If she resigns her seat by sometime in June (can't remember the exact date) then the election for her seat will be on the November ballot. No waiting needed.
 

RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,102
The democrat nomination process is all wrong, that's why we ended up with this mess. Stop letting red states dominate the process, South Carolina, Texas etc. are unlikely to go blue, they should go last in the nomination process.
It should be Midwest/ rust belt, then southwest, New England states, coastal states then end with the Deep South. This would of almost certainly spared us having a rapey Biden as our nominee.
Those states have democrats in them too, though. Because the electoral college fucks them over we should then... fuck them over more? You realize you're just giving even more outsized power to swing states then.

And what exactly is it about democrats in the Deep South means we'd have a less rapey nominee? Ignoring that the Midwest also voted for Biden in massive numbers, what do you think makes those southern democrats different?
 

Biggersmaller

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,966
Minneapolis
User Banned (1 Week): Hostility
Warren and everyone like her should just call Tara Reade a liar. And I don't want to see from anyone who agrees with her posting feminist hashtags the next time a Republican is accused.

I started embracing the term when I took a peek at /r/ChapoTrapHouse. I mean, I might strongly disagree with the more left-leaning, socialist-types on this forum, but they have *nothing* on the sort of deranged losers that frequent that subreddit. Nothing but revenge fantasies and openly admitting that they
hate the dirty libs more than they hate the fascists and that they'd prefer 4 more years of Trump over Biden.

I'll happily admit to being a "dirty left" socialist. The Democratic Party has demonstrated a total lack of credibility as a movement away from Trump's sexism, imperialism, or building a system to represent the 1%. I don't want Trump to be President yet I refuse to allow my liberal views to be cynically exploited to elect a warmongering, womanizing, pro-banking, anti-poor piece of shit.

People will betray their principles for any given candidate TO A POINT. Biden is too far for me. I'm not voting for a rapist. Fuck anyone who does.
 

GYODX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,233
Warren and everyone like her should just call Tara Reade a liar. And I don't want to see from anyone who agrees with her posting feminist hashtags the next time a Republican is accused.



I'll happily admit to being a "dirty left" socialist. The Democratic Party has demonstrated a total lack of credibility as a movement away from Trump's sexism, imperialism, or building a system to represent the 1%. I don't want Trump to be President yet I refuse to allow my liberal views to be cynically exploited to elect a warmongering, womanizing, pro-banking, anti-poor piece of shit.

People will betray their principles for any given candidate TO A POINT. Biden is too far for me. I'm not voting for a rapist. Fuck anyone who does.
Nice. That's a *lot* of people and minorities you're directing that 'fuck [you]' at.
 

Instro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,002
I mean, I'm not totally surprised; Joe is the nominee, everyone will line up behind him. On the other hand, I am a LITTLE surprised that such a milquetoast statement is coming from someone who ethered Michael Bloomberg on her way out for inappropriate conduct.
It's probably fair to say there are some differences between the two, besides what you mentioned above. Bloomberg has had numerous lawsuits, allegations, settlements, etc., related to his behavior, and has quite a few very awful quotes attributed to him. It's also fair to say that he and Warren have no professional long term relationship like she does with Biden. She has first hand knowledge of what Biden is like and who he is, which obviously is going to color her opinion on this, as it would for a lot of people when they know someone personally who is accused of something.

Ultimately though I can't imagine her saying anything but what she said unless there were more allegations, or some significant proof against Biden. As it stands now there's not much to be said or done until the records are released(if they are released).
 

dep9000

Banned
Mar 31, 2020
5,401
User banned (1 week): Ignoring staff post
Yeah, no, fuck that.
Warren has championed progressive policies and made real, lasting change in that direction.
Let's not forget that due to a public position on an extremely delicate matter, one in which politics and ideology clash for obvious reasons




Eh, elections are won on turnout. Critical as this election may be, there's some progressives which will stay home instead of voting if they aren't catered to decently.
But again, progressives are already going to vote for Bernie. They don't need liz to get them to vote. Biden is better off going with Kamala. She checks more boxes
 

game-biz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,711
Warren and everyone like her should just call Tara Reade a liar. And I don't want to see from anyone who agrees with her posting feminist hashtags the next time a Republican is accused.



I'll happily admit to being a "dirty left" socialist. The Democratic Party has demonstrated a total lack of credibility as a movement away from Trump's sexism, imperialism, or building a system to represent the 1%. I don't want Trump to be President yet I refuse to allow my liberal views to be cynically exploited to elect a warmongering, womanizing, pro-banking, anti-poor piece of shit.

People will betray their principles for any given candidate TO A POINT. Biden is too far for me. I'm not voting for a rapist. Fuck anyone who does.
Trump is 10 times worse in every way. I assume Tara Reade is telling the truth and I believe the assault happened and that Biden is lying in order to win the election. And I'll have to begrudgingly vote for fucking Biden, who isn't really good guy. I truly hate that this is the guy who one the primary.

But it's either Biden or four more years of Trump.

I don't blame anyone that doesn't vote for Biden, but I don't blame anyone who does, either. Biden is a creepy piece of shit, but Trump is still the greater evil -by far- it's not even close. We can't have four more years of Trump. It just can't happen.
 

Biggersmaller

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,966
Minneapolis
Nice. That's a *lot* of people and minorities you're directing that 'fuck [you]' at.
And we're at the point of saying fuck anyone that votes against Trump now. Awesome.
Why not just leave it at you wont vote for him? There are tens of millions fearing for their lives from Trump. So fuck them?

It's as simple as believing victims and refusing to vote for their perpetrators. If you're the type of person who can vote for such a man, what else is there really to say?
 

Mass_Pincup

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,127
Later asked if she thinks an independent investigation into Reade's claims, something a couple other Democratic senators have endorsed, is needed, Warren said: "I think what the vice president has said is convincing, and I support him."

I don't understand why she would oppose an investigation when she seems convinced of no wrongdoing. Surely that would be a clear way to remove any doubt while at the same time listening at taking what Reade said seriously?

Feels like that's a no brainer to me.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,487
It's as simple as believing victims and refusing to vote for their perpetrators. If you're the type of person who can vote for such a man, what else is there really to say?
You can believe and also begrudgingly vote against someone that is more evil and will inflict way worse into women rights for decades to come if winning again.
 

GYODX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,233
It's as simple as believing victims and refusing to vote for their perpetrators. If you're the type of person who can vote for such a man, what else is there really to say?
Again, this is begging the question.

'Joe Biden is a rapist' isn't a settled fact.

And in either case, I'm not going to apologize for voting to protect my family and compatriots in Puerto Rico, especially after what I lived through in 2017.
 
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Cipherr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,422
I don't understand why she would oppose an investigation when she seems convinced of no wrongdoing. Surely that would be a clear way to remove any doubt while at the same time listening at taking what Reade said seriously?

Feels like that's a no brainer to me.


Its a no brainer why she answered like that. She, unlike some people, remember Hillarys emails. And the naivate that led to a "Who cares if theres an investigation if I didnt actually do anything wrong" thought process. The problem with that process is that it assumed the Republicans act in good faith. Bill Clinton made that same mistake with Whitewater was it? Hillary did it with her E-Mails, and literally everyone with any political perception worthwhile can see this lining up to be next in line. In both those previous scenarios investigations that ended up being led by people that were Republicans or sensitive to them were started. And although found innocent of the actual issue being investigated, tons of other shit was trotted out and made into issues like Benjamin Ghazi and all other sorts of nonsense that literally helped propel Trump into office.

And now folks are lining up to do that again?

No, you don't blindly say you would support any investigation. If they ask about specifics? Sure, the same way Biden himself said and requested the record Tara wanted released to be released. But blanket statements, overconfidence and assuming the Republicans would act in good faith is a losing game. Two times now that shits cost us. Not interested in a third.
 

Eeyore

User requested ban
Banned
Dec 13, 2019
9,029
I'm done supporting her. I had high hopes for her campaign and she ran a worse campaign than Jeb Bush.

Again, this is begging the question.

'Joe Biden is a rapist' isn't a settled fact.

And in either case, I'm not going to apologize for voting to protect my family and compatriots in Puerto Rico, especially after what I lived through in 2017.

You know mods can see edits right?
 

AzorAhai

Member
Oct 29, 2017
6,597
User banned (1 week): Trolling, ignoring staff post
And yet Resetera tried so hard to explain that she was the right choice and that the behaviour of some Sanders' supporters was making it impossible to vote for him.

Yikes.
 

TheRuralJuror

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,497
Again, this is begging the question.

'Joe Biden is a rapist' isn't a settled fact.

And in either case, I'm not going to apologize for voting to protect my family and compatriots in Puerto Rico, especially after what I lived through in 2017.
My people are from San Lorenzo and I've still got family there, so I know what you mean. It was rough that year, even remember my brother in law being unable to reach his father for some time and just worrying himself crazy. That said, if warren doesn't feel he's a rapist after what she's seen, I'm not sure why she can't make that known. Some to only want takes of condemnation or none at all.
 

GYODX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,233
Speak for yourself.

Because you sure as hell don't speak for me. We are not your hypothetical cudgel for coercion, so find some new material.
How am I speaking for you? A lot of people, including minorities, are voting for Biden. I'm not trying to speak for anyone else; that's just a fact. And to those of us who *are*, that was a nice big 'fuck [you]' that he directed at us.

Again, if you don't want to vote for Biden, that is your prerogative and I respect it. I might think it's misguided and hope that you'd decide differently, but at the end of the day I'm not going to try to shame you for it. And I'm *especially* not going to say 'fuck you for not voting for Biden'.
 

Cipherr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,422
Biden's statement about the allegations and request for the senate to release records convinced me. He couldn't have handled it better.

Its legit what we asked for before the thing aired. I didn't even expect him to do that well. I respect it. I don't pass judgement or assume innocence just because he did, but I respect him treating the situation with respect.

The socialists and Marxists of Era can sit this election out, and that's perfectly fine. Telling other members to go fuck themselves for voting against Trump probably goes over the line though.

Seriously...
 
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Barbarossa

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,264
The socialists and Marxists of Era can sit this election out, and that's perfectly fine. Telling other members to go fuck themselves for voting against Trump probably goes over the line though.