The publishing arm of WB Games will probably be the first casualty of any "cost rationalization" measures.
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Warner Bros. gaming division no longer being sold off (update: info from internal communications, likely a misread, sale still probably likely)
- Thread starter Wallace Wells
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At this point it seems that WB Boston is doomed. Since LOTR Online, they made only small projects.
WB Games San Francisco is support studio for publishing mobile games. I guess that it could be shut down as well.
WB Games San Diego is developing free to play games, so...
I guess that those 3 studios could be closed.
Hate to be the bad seer, but I don't see it as good news. They're not in the good market to sell, ans now all employees will be thinking about downsizing and layoffs most likely and looking at job security. The only jobs safe short term are most of the senior staff. All Warner Bros did was give another year to prove to the parent they can make more money and keep at it. If after 1 year AT &T think it wants to spin it off, they'll take a massive writedown to sell and we're back in square one.
I mean I'm hoping for the best, but yeah - I don't know if I'm cheering this yet, unless their next games are monster hits.
They should really seriously consider selling off the moribund Midway Games/Atari Games/Williams arcade properties to someone that will properly take the effort to curate it all on modern systems, before that's out of their hands.
They should really seriously consider selling off the moribund Midway Games/Atari Games/Williams arcade properties to someone that will properly take the effort to curate it all on modern systems, before that's out of their hands.
Sorry, but I don't quite understand this press release message.
Is there some more evidence that AT&T is no longer selling Warner Bros gaming division? Other sources, like insiders, analysts or trusted reporters? I didn't see any trusted figure talking about this (maybe I missed it), and with this corporate speech it's difficult to say if they're talking about the actual NOW or also about the future.
Thank you. (2n2 )
Is there some more evidence that AT&T is no longer selling Warner Bros gaming division? Other sources, like insiders, analysts or trusted reporters? I didn't see any trusted figure talking about this (maybe I missed it), and with this corporate speech it's difficult to say if they're talking about the actual NOW or also about the future.
Thank you. (2n2 )
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This really needs a title change. There's nothing here to confirm they are still not looking to sell.
All that can be gathered is that is hasn't been sold, so it's still with the company thus part of the restructuring/consolidation per the status update sent to employees. We really can't gauge current desire to sell or not from this
Even if they did still want to sell, it hasn't yet so they have to be business as usual and paint the division in a postive light.
yeah That HP game , if they set up a good asset pipeline, could spawn a megahuge franchise
Current WB Status
Updated summary of the current status of things courtesy of Tweaktown (stupid site name but great article):
- According to that author: Mortal Kombat will be kept by AT&T and Netherealm will be sold, with Mortal Kombat being licensed out in the sale:
"Sources say WB Games and its associated studios (Netherealm, Avalanche, Monolith, Rocksteady, WB Montreal, etc.) could be sold in a massive $4 billion deal that also includes exclusive franchise license rights to huge IPs like Mortal Kombat and the DC Universe."
I've been saying that this might happen for quite awhile but, while not fully confirmed, it looks like its getting closer to happening.
- AT&T's total debt is $152 billion, which is fueling a lot of this sale. It's a combination of too much debt taken on from buying WB (which IMO should have never been approved) and COVID-19 really messing up financial projections.
- Article also highlights the move for WB Games to an expanded Studios and Networks.
Overall, if this article is true, looks like WB Games will be sold with basically no actual IP attached, just licensed stuff out.
- According to that author: Mortal Kombat will be kept by AT&T and Netherealm will be sold, with Mortal Kombat being licensed out in the sale:
"Sources say WB Games and its associated studios (Netherealm, Avalanche, Monolith, Rocksteady, WB Montreal, etc.) could be sold in a massive $4 billion deal that also includes exclusive franchise license rights to huge IPs like Mortal Kombat and the DC Universe."
I've been saying that this might happen for quite awhile but, while not fully confirmed, it looks like its getting closer to happening.
- AT&T's total debt is $152 billion, which is fueling a lot of this sale. It's a combination of too much debt taken on from buying WB (which IMO should have never been approved) and COVID-19 really messing up financial projections.
- Article also highlights the move for WB Games to an expanded Studios and Networks.
Overall, if this article is true, looks like WB Games will be sold with basically no actual IP attached, just licensed stuff out.
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They just gutted DC comics too. Looks like they're selling a ton of stuff off, and downsizing everything else.
So basically I'd assume that a lot of companies interested in this deal definitely aren't interested anymore if they can't even get MK anymore without having to pay license fees.
I can still see Microsoft trying. They can put NRS on KI instead of MK. Still though NRS on KI might be a good idea if they can't or won't want to pay for the MK license, but is that and the other studios with virtually 0 IPs really worth anywhere near the ballpark of 4b?
This turned from a good thing to a really bad thing real fast. Not only are all the studios getting gutted most likely, they're still potentially being sold off to worse options.
Someone would have to be pretty fucking dumb to spend 4b and have no major IP to show for it. Not even getting MK is a joke.
NetherRealm without full ownership of the Mortal Kombat IP is absolutely worthless.
As the article highlights, the "incentive" for the buyer is exclusive licensing rights for AT&T IP in the gaming space such as Harry Potter, DC comics, Lord of the rings, Mortal Kombat and more. Just go wiki all the IP AT&T now owns, haha.
Essentially: the negotiation point for AT&T and anyone buying WB Games will be how many years of exclusive licensing the buyer would get. If it hits 10-15 years, I could see a buyer being interested - that's a lot of time to make your $4 billion back.
If the MK thing is true though, it REALLY fucking sucks for Netherrealm.
AT&T is not the owner of the Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, or Lego IPs. AT&T licenses those IPs from the actual owners.
The rights to those IPs would not transfer in any sale which reduces the value of the WB Games assets.
Yeah but weren't people originally thinking that MK would actually be included in a supposed sale and that would still be a really hard pill to swallow for 4b even if they do get exclusive licensing rights for years? I can't imagine how much interest is lost now that they won't even get MK. This is news for us but maybe the companies interested in the deal knew about that from the beginning?
I guess as you said if they do get it for 10-15 years it could be worth it but boy this is just a nasty situation all around. Thanks for the write-up though, really interesting albeit unfortunate stuff.
If they sell the studios along with exclusive WB franchise rights going forward (Mortal Kombat, DC, etc.), I can see that being worth $4B. WB keeps its IP but the buyer gets the rights to use those characters in video games. I don't quite understand why they'd keep Mortal Kombat, given it is so tied to video games (unlike DC) but whatever.
If they are asking for $4B without those rights, good luck with that lol.
Depending on how those deals are structured - WB has the movie rights to Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings and has the TV/movie rights to Lego, that's what would be transferring - the ability to make games based off of those properties (not the original properties themselves).
We saw this a lot back during the PS2 days with Lord of the Rings when EA owned them - EA had their own licensing for Lord of the Rings games that could ONLY include movie stuff and games were also coming out that were based off the books.
Some of those rights ARE transferable, generally, and can include fees paid to the license holder, etc.
It's a complicated contractual mess but as someone who has dealt with similar situations before, it's not unsolvable.
Any executive who would even consider buying NetherRealm without full ownership of the Mortal Kombat IP attached should be sacked on the spot.
True... but then again I'm sure NeatherRealm would make an AWESOME PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale 2 :D
I feel the same - but I can also see why AT&T wants to keep Mortal Kombat - its a whole transmedia IP - movies, games, toys, comics, TV shows, etc.
I get that AT&T has massive debt they need to manage, but it seems kind of weird they'd sell their gaming operations during a time like this? Like so many entertainment mediums are getting hammered by the pandemic and yet the video game industry is absolutely massive and actually growing right now.
If that's the case then I can definitely see them selling off the studios individually if no one wants to bite on the 4b price without ip ownership (which is a ridiculous ask imo lol) If that does happen I pray MS scoops netherealm an put them to work on KI at least smh
With all the shit going on there now, it's looking more like it'll actually be sold off. If they can get the exclusive license rights for many years, over a decade, i can see MS doing it. Especially with the way PS5 is becoming the spiderman machine, Xbox being the Batman machine makes a lot of sense.
Someone really needs to change the title of this thread. There was nothing ever stating WB was no longer for sale and this newest article still states it's a possibility. The original article saying it wasn't for sale was the result of poor reading comprehension. Nothing more.
I can't see them getting anywhere near 4B if they do that. Their two most valuable developer assets by far are NetherRealm and Rocksteady. And for as great as Rocksteady is, they're a studio that has only managed to put out two AAA games over the last decade.
Don't assume that exclusive licensing rights mean the game would become exclusive. That's usually negotiated in licensing deals themselves. Look at how the sports leagues have dealt with EA/Take2/Sony - where they want all their games to be multiplatform.
Disney is more open to exclusives and the article does say that AT&T would like to emulate Disney, but the amount of IP involved would be a staggering amount to keep locked down to fewer platforms - especially when you are jumping in a $4 billion dollar hole to try and make your money back. Minecraft would be a closer comparison for MS, and that's on everything too.
That's a situation that Disney was NOT in but AT&T IS in. Of course exclusive deals for certain IP could be worked out, but all of it? I don't think that would happen.
Unfortunately this looks like WB is definitely being sold off. Protecting the business from the incoming restructuring is pretty clear.
I could see MS paying the amount if and this is a big IF AT&T are willing to promote Xcloud and Gamepass (similar to the Korea deals) along with All Access in their retail network etc.
I could see MS paying the amount if and this is a big IF AT&T are willing to promote Xcloud and Gamepass (similar to the Korea deals) along with All Access in their retail network etc.
That tweaktown article seems like a simple repackaging of the old rumors. Hopefully it remains that.
That's wild. Things surely arent over, especially wirh DC comics getting gutted.
If you track their moves recently, all move towards HBO Max. It's their big gamble. And Mortal Kombat could be central to that philosophy.
I could see Microsoft still interested in this since all that matters is the exclusive licensing rights - just depends on how many years.
I could also see a company as big as Microsoft eventually trying to buy IPs from AT&T that make sense - in this case, Mortal Kombat - later down the road.
With that said, WB Games being sold off isn't the optimal outcome so it's a shame either way.
Realistically, you could just license it or make your own knockoff franchise. Studios specializing in fighting games are an absolute rarity in the industry, so I wouldn't be surprised if there were some takers.
I haven't seen any other news regarding DC, but have seen it referenced here. What happened to DC comics??
Apart from the licenses, using the Microsoft example... Killer Instinct would be something they could have them develop. Mortal Kombat was the one license I hope transferred over to any company that bought it though.
Massive layoffs happened recently (today?). :/
It was thought that perhaps instead of selling WB Games off, there were just going to be massive layoffs across Warner itself. AT&T really shouldn't have bought WB.
Did WB Games suffer any layoffs? If they don't, to me that would suggest that AT&T is keeping them intact to sell of.
With all the layoffs happening at WM, i'm sure we'll hear about this soon if it's happening at all
at&t is the black widow of American conglomerates. the company amasses a fortune from its bottomless piggy bank in utility operations yet has never had any idea how to value or run these outside businesses they purchase. even with any lack of understand, they will demand full control over products while pissing all over ideas by demanding branding changes to suit the mothership.
they are truly the worst type of owner for any sort of creative/content company. my hope for WB as at&t's first entry into media is they'd be somewhat hands off, instead of draining the company before dumping it like they usually do... but that hope has been on wobbly footing ever since the push to make HBO produce mobile friendly/quibi type shows to support their phone business. it always goes back to whatever they think adds value for at&t branded products, investing or fostering growth outside of that vortex usually get sent to die until the company is a shell of its former self.
they are truly the worst type of owner for any sort of creative/content company. my hope for WB as at&t's first entry into media is they'd be somewhat hands off, instead of draining the company before dumping it like they usually do... but that hope has been on wobbly footing ever since the push to make HBO produce mobile friendly/quibi type shows to support their phone business. it always goes back to whatever they think adds value for at&t branded products, investing or fostering growth outside of that vortex usually get sent to die until the company is a shell of its former self.
The more I read about this, the angrier I get. I mean, I understand that Covid is causing a recession and lay offs are happening we like it or not, but placing an eSports figure to head their comic book division? AT&T will indeed run WB to the ground, won't they?
Yeah, as a DC fan this enrages me... I personally don't trust AT&T to run Warner.
It's almost like they are self sabotaging to justify a sell out of the divisions they don't want.
