WB Games is owned by one of the biggest asshole companies on the planet that's far worse than any company that could potentially buy them. They are also guaranteed to lose more jobs even if they aren't sold.
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Warner Bros. gaming division no longer being sold off (update: info from internal communications, likely a misread, sale still probably likely)
- Thread starter Wallace Wells
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WB Games is owned by one of the biggest asshole companies on the planet that's far worse than any company that could potentially buy them. They are also guaranteed to lose more jobs even if they aren't sold.
Anything in active development would not be affected by this probably, because the actual meat and potatoes of a sale of this magnitude would take a year or so to really get everything done. And it's still not a done deal even if the division is up for sale. It's probable that it still could not happen (especially since the asking price is incredibly high), so it's doubtful they'd just slam the breaks on everything that's being done just because there may be a sale soon, especially for properties that are going to be highly profitable such as LEGO, Harry Potter, MK and Injustice.
not really
to put it simply WBIE isn't really a publisher... not in the way EA is.
WB really only self publishes... little to no outside business on the publishing side. They have marketing handled by an already existing marketing department. They already have physical printing and distribution by WB Home Entertainment. They are a publisher simply because they exist within a company where the publishing infrastructure already existed.
They are essentially a collection of studios. Once they are sold, WB may trim certain divisions if needed... and the buyer will need to add jobs to handle the increased work. But largely out of the majority of publishers out there, WBIE would likely be the cleanest takeover possible. It's actually a really unique situation.
So, just to be clear, the thread title was changed because of a Youtube video created by someone not involved in WarnerMedia who is giving his interpretation of the language in a company email versus the CEO of the company who sent the email in the first place.
I'm not definitively saying that this isn't true and WB Games isn't still on the chopping block but don't sources count for anything? Are any Youtube videos with a couple of thousand views fair game now?
I'm not definitively saying that this isn't true and WB Games isn't still on the chopping block but don't sources count for anything? Are any Youtube videos with a couple of thousand views fair game now?
Every last potential bidder is a bad option. There is no win here.
Look, I googled it and this is the most recent thing I can find. I have no idea why myself. I'd think if anything it would be Batman and Spider-Man in a endless duel. But America is weird right now so who knows.
The CEO never said they were no longer for sale. The thread title was speculation based on video game journalist interpretation of a letter sent to employees. There is no source either way.So, just to be clear, the thread title was changed because of a Youtube video created by someone not involved in WarnerMedia who is giving his interpretation of the language in a company email versus the CEO of the company who sent the email in the first place.
I'm not definitively saying that this isn't true and WB Games isn't still on the chopping block but don't sources count for anything? Are any Youtube videos with a couple of thousand views fair game now?
This is absolutely incorrect. I agree that theoretically it might be a clearer process than with other publishers, but the idea that selling WB would mean fewer job losses than WM keeping them is complete fantasy.
Eh, I guess the definition of "popular" can mean different things. I was basing it off comic sales and general pop-culture relevance, which I don't think anyone can deny Superman has not had a great decade or so. Though he's still top 3 for sure and a hit movie away from being in top relevance again
So another Youtube video with a creator interpreting the language as WarnerMedia keeping their games division would be cause for another thread title change? I'm not familiar with this Youtuber, does he have some great standing with ERA, perhaps the same standing that EuroGamer appears to have ?
Unless I'm mistaken they never came out and said they were for sale in the first place. The initial report was based on CNBC "sources". Not to say it wasn't true, but to this point its all speculation from every angle. Seems silly to argue over something that was never actually announced in the first place was or wasn't refuted.
What? If WB Games is bought by another video game publisher that marketing department, the publishing department and any other redundancies will be let go and hundreds of jobs will be lost. So no, it wouldn't be a clean takeover...it would be the complete opposite of that. WB also DOES publish games they do not own - most notably Witcher 3 and Hitman recently. They are also publishing Cyberpunk 2077.
Losing a third party publisher is always devastating because it gives developers less publishing options.
So no, I don't agree at all that WB Games staying within the AT&T umbrella would be worse because that's not true at all.
So, just to be clear, the thread title was changed because of a Youtube video created by someone not involved in WarnerMedia who is giving his interpretation of the language in a company email versus the CEO of the company who sent the email in the first place.
I'm not definitively saying that this isn't true and WB Games isn't still on the chopping block but don't sources count for anything? Are any Youtube videos with a couple of thousand views fair game now?
The YouTube video is kind of whatever but the article I posted a few pages back is notable because it contains certain aspects of the sale that weren't commented on until the article was created. The site, while it has a dumb name, has written a lot about industry business and the writing style is both level-headed and based off factual sources.
TLDR: the YouTube video is not the main reason why people think WB Games is for sale again. I'll flag a mod to get my post threadmarked.
I think people aren't understanding that the publishing arm of WB is effectively redundant with a EA, Activision or Microsoft purchase. That's a ton of jobs lost. Tencent, despite my objections, is the best chance to keep those jobs.
You are quite wrong on this. Sorry. WBIE isn't a publisher. WB Home Entertainment is. WBIE is the developers working underneath the publisher. WBIE is a collection of studios.
There is no redundancy in any sale. Sale to MS, for example, would be growth due to studio expansion. AT&T is otherwise looking to prune divisions to service debt.
Don't make a fool of yourself.
He's a business attorney with a particular interest in the world of videogames and popular culture.
Michigan Business Attorney | Hoeg Law | Official Website
As a Business Attorney with over a decade's experience at Michigans largest firm, Hoeg Law combines big law experience with a personal small firm approach.
hoeglaw.com
It's a professional opinion from a lawyer with experience in the field, not just a random YouTuber.
He's a business attorney with a particular interest in the world of videogames and popular culture.
Michigan Business Attorney | Hoeg Law | Official Website
As a Business Attorney with over a decade's experience at Michigans largest firm, Hoeg Law combines big law experience with a personal small firm approach.
It's a professional opinion from a lawyer with experience in the field, not just a random YouTuber.
He's a professional lawyer with professional opinion.........who is still just interpreting the language in an email.
It's a notable post worthy of a threadmark but not worthy of a thread title change IMHO.
Sorry I might have missed this, what is the main reason people think WB Games is still for sale?
...wow.
No, this is not correct, and incredibly delusional. No buyer is keeping the sales, marketing, operations, etc. jobs that will be lost, and no buyer is keeping all the studios WB currently includes.
You are wrong, and hoping for misery for a lot of people.
This article and AT&T's axing of DC comics talent yesterday were the main driving factors to opinions switching back to sale being likely.
Thanks for the link.
I've never heard of TweakTown but if they are trusted by ERA then fair enough .
I wasn't sure how trustable they are (dumb name for a website) but their articles seem well written, well researched and checking the author's Twitter page has led me to feel like they know what they are talking about.
Fair enough.
It could be Xmas (if not 2021) before we hear anymore on this and that's assuming that they do want to still sell the division.
As is usually the case we'll just have to wait and see how this all pans out.
It's either a quick death under a purchase or a slow march toward death under AT&T. Either way, they have too much debt to hold on to and that will come back to bite the games division eventually, whether it's through selling off studios or performing layoffs, restructuring, and closures themselves. Neither is an ideal situation.
Yep - And I'm pretty sure AT&T's goal here with including multiple exclusive licenses is to make as much money as they can through this sale - so them selling to a publisher/company that won't support multiplatform development (including mobile) makes very little sense.
It's why EA/Activision/Tencent make the most sense - all three of those have mobile wings, develop multiplatform content and have experience dealing with licensed content.
The "lucky" thing for WB Games is that their division is quite profitable so even if kept AT&T would likely not downsize too hard to hurt it, just "trim fat" (which would still be a lot of jobs lost but not likely as much as compared to a full sale).
Thank you for bringing Del Griffith into my life today.So, just to be clear, the thread title was changed because of a Youtube video created by someone not involved in WarnerMedia who is giving his interpretation of the language in a company email versus the CEO of the company who sent the email in the first place.
I'm not definitively saying that this isn't true and WB Games isn't still on the chopping block but don't sources count for anything? Are any Youtube videos with a couple of thousand views fair game now?
This is just not accurate. The division is a profitable one and a growth sector for AT&T.
They want to sell it for a high price. Killing it for the sake of killing it is not on the table.
WB staying in tact with Microsoft purchasing Game Pass rights seems like the most reasonable expectation and best case scenario. The question would become. How much is a day one Game Pass deal worth? How many years would the companies want to sign for?
Do you look at Hulu with Seinfeld 6 years ago (around $110 Million) or do you look at Netflix with Seinfeld for the future deal (More than the Office deal so greater than $500 Million)? Do you look at HBO with Friends and the shows by Chuck Lorre?
Is this a deal worth $1 Billion for 5 years of Day 1 Game Pass? Does Microsoft pay more to get longer terms?
Is that enough to save the dvision?
The division is profitable and doesn't need "saving". The reason it's being sold off is because of its high value and because video gaming does not really fit within the AT&T "core" and they'd rather go the Disney route of licensing IP instead of making games if they can. However, unlike Disney, AT&T is desperate for cash and would likely want to continue releasing their IP on everything under the sun, so multiplatform development (mobile, etc) is likely what they want.
If ms is trying to get gamepass deal then i would base it off number of games not years.
I don't mean saving as in they need saving because they are losing money. I mean saving as in preventing them from being sold off. Is $1 Billion enough to keep them in house for now?
If they plan to develop mobile games and multiplatform titles, maybe. I think Minecraft is a good comparison point given the amount of money spent except Minecraft became a MS IP AND they get to sell lots of toys - things they won't get with a WB Games purchase and licensing deal.
I mean, if they don't sell, what do you think the future of WB Interactive looks like under the overall repositioning of the company to HBO Max and streaming? It seems to me that game development is a business that WB wants to step out of.
There is precedence for them developing multi-platform with Minecraft. I would hope if they get the licenses they would make them available everywhere and eventually work out a deal with Sony to trade for Spider-Man.
Ah, then it is me who's not getting the "licensing out exclusively" part. Thanks for clearing it up.
Not really. AT&T is getting a lot of pressure to refocus and pay down debt from shareholders, but killing profitable divisions for the sake of it doesn't help accomplish that. In fact, it hurts them more.
WBIE is likely to be hit by layoffs, but the division is safe unless someone is willing to pay what AT&T wants for it.
Generally, when licensing an IP from a content owner (i.e. Spider-man, Madden, Star Wars, etc) the deal will contain supported platforms that the deal covers and which platforms are not covered, etc. AT&T (according to the Tweaktown article) is looking for an exclusive licensing partner - i.e. someone they can hand all their licenses to that'll cover all game development and make them the most money possible and give them their licensing cut. It would make very little sense to do that and then tie all your games to one platform, when you've been raking in cash from multi-platform development (and mobile development) - that goes against the point of making the deal.
In addition to that, whoever licenses these IPs from AT&T will have X number of years or X number of games to turn a profit on this deal - you don't do that by paying $4 billion dollars and then limiting the platforms you plan to support. You make oodles of cash by releasing those IP you have access to on EVERYTHING.
Right, so do you think it's possible that there could be less layoffs from an acquisition by the right partner?
No, any acquisition will lead to more job losses than WM keeping them. Period.
acquired by pretty much anyone - sales, ops, marketing, etc staff wiped out.
stay - all those departments get hit, but remain mostly intact.
It's not really a "perspective."
Out of the companies that have been reported to be in the mix, none of them would need any of the staff from the publishing, marketing, operations, distribution, etc. parts of the company, so all those people would be gone. On top of that, it's incredibly unlikely that any buyer would keep all the studios WBIE has, and in all likelihood around half of them would get cut, depending on who the buyer was.
Right now these people are employed during a global pandemic and economic downturn, and theoretically, all of them are employed because they have jobs to do. A sale would completely upend that, and keeping those people employed is the only thing that matters.
I don't think it matters who they sell too because WB will still retain the IP. It might factor in the price if they want to give temp licenses to the buyer but it's not that big a deal in the short term and certainly wouldn't be broad or all encompassing.
As for job losses, I don't think we can say much in that regard other than jobs would likely go in all situations.
Agree that the best thing for maximum jobs saved would be for them to stay where they are, but will being profitable shield them that much from the internal shake up? I ask because Blizzard had a lot of layoffs after a record year. Was that just a bit of an exception to the norm?
A layoff is generally about cutting back on staff, but WBIE would still need most or all of its "parts" to keep operating, so maybe some or all areas would lose some % of their headcount.
A sale would mean a number of teams get cut completely. 10% (or whatever) is awful, but it's still better than 100%.