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Gareth

Gareth

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Oct 25, 2017
5,435
Norn Iron
That dark period of GW history ended up leading to the birth of the three ways to play system which I think has been a good way of recognising and catering to the different audiences for their main games compared to what they were doing before.
 
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Deleted member 29682

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Nov 1, 2017
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I mean it's something of an open secret that Warhammer is designed as a fantasy/sci-fi miniature selling company first and a tabletop strategy game second. They seem to do better with each new fresh slate, mind you: Underworlds and Quest are simple and relatively cheap to buy into (compared to forking out god knows how much for a 2000pt army that you spend months actually assembling and painting).
 

Drax

Oregon tag
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,076
I mean it's something of an open secret that Warhammer is designed as a fantasy/sci-fi miniature selling company first and a tabletop strategy game second. They seem to do better with each new fresh slate, mind you: Underworlds and Quest are simple and relatively cheap to buy into (compared to forking out god knows how much for a 2000pt army that you spend months actually assembling and painting).

Rip kill team.

I do think Undergrounds is great in that it introduces factions in morsel sizes.
 
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Plastic Shark

Member
Nov 17, 2017
1,828
Huh, never paid to the smaller games, but Underworlds and Warcry look fun. Heard other people say they perfer the smaller skirmish games than the larger games.
 
Oct 26, 2017
9,929
If there's somebody here who is familiar with the original Warhammer Quest, would it be possible to give me a rundown of the main differences between that and the modern version? Thanks!
 

laoni

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,710
Underworlds is nice because the starting set has enough for 2 players to enjoy so you can split costs with a friend or get others into your plastic crack game in a relatively small sized and easy to understand package. But, with all the cards, it does kind of mean to be super competitive you have to buy all the sets for their cards.

Fortunately our shop tournaments are chill af so no one really cares who's winning the season so there's no big drive to get ALL THE THINGS
 

Deleted member 29682

User requested account closure
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Nov 1, 2017
12,290
I'm wondering how he'd look on a horse. I have a bunch of hexwraiths i haven't painted.

If he wouldn't look too weird you could put him on a horse and run it as a mounted vampire lord.

That's a good shout, though I'm not sure Hexwraith/Black Knight horses are big enough for Manfred's model (he's quite a large lad) and I don't personally envisage Nightmares as being explicitly undead or skeletal. I've ordered a Chaos Knight horse since they seem pretty bulky and evil and might be a better fit for a mounted Vampire Lord, I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks for the suggestion.
 

Matttimeo

Member
Oct 26, 2017
762
If there's somebody here who is familiar with the original Warhammer Quest, would it be possible to give me a rundown of the main differences between that and the modern version? Thanks!
To be honest, classic WHQ is probably unrecognisable from its modern incarnations. Although Silver Tower was similar in the way that you revealed a dungeon by flipping cards, trying to reach an objective room while being assaulted by monsters, it completely revamped the hero action system by replacing the basic action system of WHQ and changing it into a dice action system that you rolled 4 dice for each hero and could spend them to preform actions. The higher value of dice you spend, the more complex the action you could preform. This dice system was almost your heros health where if you got hit you removed one of your action dice and when you couldn't you were dead (so effectively everyone had 5 hit points). Although you had small health pools you could regenerate it by spending action dice which gives the game a tactical health management system that feels very different then the doomsday clock that health is in WHQ.

Blackstone Fortress took those systems and pulled even further from the classic Quest game. The dungeon system was massively redone, gone was the permeant dungeon and every gamer was your team drawing from a threat deck that spawned hostile encounters that took place on these maps you built and pulled apart when you were done with them. You also weren't looking for objective rooms, you were digging up clue cards and in fact you could leave the game at any point if your team was suffering so their was this constant choice of do you continue the run and try to find more treasure and clues or do you retreat back into town and heal up. Permeant dangers got added to the Blackstone every time you retreated so it was in your interest to stay for as long as possible. Once you gathered enough clues you could spend them to go on a special bespoke mission (I think they were called Vault Runs, cant remember) which if you were successful you got super good loot and once you finished all four of the vaults you could go for the mega endgame vault that finished the base game. Its also set in the 40k universe so their is more gunplay and ranged combat, they put in a cover system to help with that.

Of course unsure exactly what Cursed City is gonna be like but I imagine it will be a direct continuation from the Blackstone Fortress system from what we've seen. So if you are thinking about picking it up I would expect the dice action system, no real permeant dungeon but small fighting arenas and a strong focus on working towards a grand endgame that takes place over many play sessions.
 
It feels like a new edition of Age of Sigmar is coming sooner than later - the Broken Realms books / expansion seems like the Psychic Awakening series which presaged the 9th edition of 40k coming out shortly afterwards. The current starter set has been out for a long time now and the Stormcast Eternals have not gotten a refresh in a while. Which is surprising considering how often GW adds new models to whatever the Space Marine equivalent is.

The one thing I really want to see is AoS brought into a alignment with the "games at any size" principle 9th edition 40k is built around. It's been kind of a big deal that 40k now has robust mission, map, and rule support for four very different game sizes. For those who haven't seen, 500, 1000, 2000, and 3000 point games.

500 point games is a pretty big deal 'cause it means you're playing a "normal" game of 40k, and not a skirmish specialist game like Kill Team, with a fairly reasonable starter size army. It is also easier to expand this into a 1000 point army later and play fairly large games.

So yeah, I really want official support in Age of Sigmar for 500 point play, and 1000 points that isn't a patch job like the Meeting Engagement game type that was introduced in extra materials a few years ago. I think the big issue from a game design sense is AoS being simplistic at small game sizes, due to its simpler mechanics in comparison to 40k. Over in 9th edition, 40k addressed this by introducing "actions", non-combat things units can do at various points in the game. That gave smaller mission sizes more actual gameplay and strategic decisions.
 

PanzerKraken

Member
Nov 1, 2017
14,972
I mean it's something of an open secret that Warhammer is designed as a fantasy/sci-fi miniature selling company first and a tabletop strategy game second. They seem to do better with each new fresh slate, mind you: Underworlds and Quest are simple and relatively cheap to buy into (compared to forking out god knows how much for a 2000pt army that you spend months actually assembling and painting).

They have gotten lot better with making games and their constantly putting out new side games which are surprisingly good too. They are also giving fans more options and flexibility as they know using their side games is now the perfect gateway. You get folks who don't want a board game, buying said game just to get all the exclusive minis. While also the minis in these games are almost always now compatible with their bigger game lines so they put out rules for those models as well or they are perfect proxies for alternates in 40k or Sigmar.

Kill Team, Warcry, etc all are legit good games with good support. They know lot of stores can't handle full scale Warhammer games anymore, many smaller shops only got a table or two so skirmish games do lot better in many places. These smaller scale games are helping GW get into more shops that really couldn't support their old games anymore.
 
You can tell Warcry got bigger than they might have hoped for. They started out selling individual packs of cards for unit rules, with support for only a few models from each AoS faction. That strategy was dropped in favor of reasonably priced books with rules for nearly every model that could fit in a Warcry game.
 

Valkyr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,934
I've played a couple games of WarCry and it is pretty fun. It's a pretty loose game but fast paced and flows well. I don't love how they won't put text on anything and many of the symbols they use look exactly the same unless you get out a magnifying glass but overall, we enjoyed it.
 

mere_immortal

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,758
I am really looking forward to the new Cursed City box (think it's set in AoS?). Loads of unique interesting content and a standalone game.
 

Plumpman

Member
Jan 24, 2018
1,021
I actually started selling most of my collection. Just had too much bloat. Kill Team, Warcry, Dark Uprising, Underworld.
I love collecting the miniatures to assemble and paint, but I don't really like the gameplay too much in any of their products.
I have plenty of games with gorgeous miniatures AND amazing gameplay, so I can't justify Games Workshop products anymore.

Awesome OT though! I'm still sticking with Sigmar and keeping my main Ironjawz Army, and looking forward to the Old World release in the coming years.
 

Drax

Oregon tag
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,076
I was wondering about Cursed City, it has the look and feel of the old world so didn't think it was AoS set?

url.


The lore seems pretty clear about it being AoS-era, by the looks of it: the titular Cursed City of Ulfenkarn (formerly Mournhold) is located in Shyish and doesn't exist in the Old World, afaik.

Also it references the Necroquake.
 

Gpsych

Member
May 20, 2019
2,890
I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet (I might have missed it), but there is a great TTRPG for Age of Sigmar from Cubicle 7 called Soulbound. As a big fan of the original WFRP (1st and 2nd editions), I kind of glossed over Soulbound when it released last year. I'm just now reading it and it's really incredible - excellent fast system, lots of lore, cool stuff to do, etc.
 
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Gareth

Gareth

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Oct 25, 2017
5,435
Norn Iron


MCXogwYrsRCi9J3E.jpg
 
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Gareth

Gareth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,435
Norn Iron
I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet (I might have missed it), but there is a great TTRPG for Age of Sigmar from Cubicle 7 called Soulbound. As a big fan of the original WFRP (1st and 2nd editions), I kind of glossed over Soulbound when it released last year. I'm just now reading it and it's really incredible - excellent fast system, lots of lore, cool stuff to do, etc.
I haven't played it but I'm tempted to pick up the Bestiary when it releases for the lore and art (covers 150+ creatures apparently).
 

Gpsych

Member
May 20, 2019
2,890
I haven't played it but I'm tempted to pick up the Bestiary when it releases for the lore and art (covers 150+ creatures apparently).

My regular weekly gaming group is very D&D centric but I'm really going to try my best to convince them to give this a try after our current 5e campaign is over (which will be like a year at least). All of them are unfortunately of the mindset of "Age of Sigmar? That shitty reboot when they killed off the actual cool Warhammer? Fuck that!" To be honest, I was right there with them until I actually started reading about the setting and realizing how awesome it is.
 

Poodlestrike

Smooth vs. Crunchy
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
13,489
I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet (I might have missed it), but there is a great TTRPG for Age of Sigmar from Cubicle 7 called Soulbound. As a big fan of the original WFRP (1st and 2nd editions), I kind of glossed over Soulbound when it released last year. I'm just now reading it and it's really incredible - excellent fast system, lots of lore, cool stuff to do, etc.
Hm, will have to check that out.

My group actually ran a Warhammer Fantasy campaign in 5e for ages, but then the GM got really into Scion 2.0 and decided they burned out on 5e to the point that they didn't want to run it any more. If there's a way to translate that system to the Old World, maybe we can get it going again.

I miss my crappy elf.

Sorry, aelf.
 

MildlyMad

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4
Been running a Soulbound with some friends for a couple of months now. Everyone's been really enjoying the combat system, lots of damage going both ways, the players having to mitigate that (they haven't got a true tanky character among them). The core-rule book has an excellent amount of lore, mythical and mundane, and mostly leans into the realm of fire as a setting.

There are some custom rules for character creation which bring down the overall power levels of the player characters; making them more grounded than otherwise being the soulbound-hero's. I believe you'd use an XP system to create, with lower starting stats.
Overall
 

Cerulean_skylark

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account.
Banned
Oct 31, 2017
6,408
That's a good shout, though I'm not sure Hexwraith/Black Knight horses are big enough for Manfred's model (he's quite a large lad) and I don't personally envisage Nightmares as being explicitly undead or skeletal. I've ordered a Chaos Knight horse since they seem pretty bulky and evil and might be a better fit for a mounted Vampire Lord, I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks for the suggestion.

let me know how it looks. I have to do something with this manfred.

I know there is a minis hobby thread too, but people should post their AOS minis.
 
Oct 26, 2017
9,929
To be honest, classic WHQ is probably unrecognisable from its modern incarnations. Although Silver Tower was similar in the way that you revealed a dungeon by flipping cards, trying to reach an objective room while being assaulted by monsters, it completely revamped the hero action system by replacing the basic action system of WHQ and changing it into a dice action system that you rolled 4 dice for each hero and could spend them to preform actions. The higher value of dice you spend, the more complex the action you could preform. This dice system was almost your heros health where if you got hit you removed one of your action dice and when you couldn't you were dead (so effectively everyone had 5 hit points). Although you had small health pools you could regenerate it by spending action dice which gives the game a tactical health management system that feels very different then the doomsday clock that health is in WHQ.

Blackstone Fortress took those systems and pulled even further from the classic Quest game. The dungeon system was massively redone, gone was the permeant dungeon and every gamer was your team drawing from a threat deck that spawned hostile encounters that took place on these maps you built and pulled apart when you were done with them. You also weren't looking for objective rooms, you were digging up clue cards and in fact you could leave the game at any point if your team was suffering so their was this constant choice of do you continue the run and try to find more treasure and clues or do you retreat back into town and heal up. Permeant dangers got added to the Blackstone every time you retreated so it was in your interest to stay for as long as possible. Once you gathered enough clues you could spend them to go on a special bespoke mission (I think they were called Vault Runs, cant remember) which if you were successful you got super good loot and once you finished all four of the vaults you could go for the mega endgame vault that finished the base game. Its also set in the 40k universe so their is more gunplay and ranged combat, they put in a cover system to help with that.

Of course unsure exactly what Cursed City is gonna be like but I imagine it will be a direct continuation from the Blackstone Fortress system from what we've seen. So if you are thinking about picking it up I would expect the dice action system, no real permeant dungeon but small fighting arenas and a strong focus on working towards a grand endgame that takes place over many play sessions.
Thanks for the reply. Some of that sound intriguing, but I'm still not sure it'll scratch that nostalgic WQ itch.
Unfortunately, complete copies of WQ are ridiculously expensive these days.
 

Kainazzo

Member
Dec 13, 2017
659
So what's the most fun army to paint?
That's a broad question, depending on whether "fun" means easy and chill, or challenging and fulfilling. Above all, you should first find an army that looks cool to you.

"Easiest" armies to paint on average would probably be Nighthaunt or Orruk Warclans, it's pretty simple to get the brush everywhere on them.

All the other armies are somewhere in the middle, most like Stormcast can either be super simple (lots of pure gold armor) or complicated (layered gold armor).

Most challenging would maybe be Kharadron, Lumineth, and some of the new Tzeentch and Slaanesh ranges. Lots of little details and smooth surfaces that really benefit from blending and highlights.

I had to learn to paint minis with Adeptus Mechanicus Skitarii, so my idea of easy/hard may be a little tilted!
 

Kwigo

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
8,025
That's a broad question, depending on whether "fun" means easy and chill, or challenging and fulfilling. Above all, you should first find an army that looks cool to you.

"Easiest" armies to paint on average would probably be Nighthaunt or Orruk Warclans, it's pretty simple to get the brush everywhere on them.

All the other armies are somewhere in the middle, most like Stormcast can either be super simple (lots of pure gold armor) or complicated (layered gold armor).

Most challenging would maybe be Kharadron, Lumineth, and some of the new Tzeentch and Slaanesh ranges. Lots of little details and smooth surfaces that really benefit from blending and highlights.

I had to learn to paint minis with Adeptus Mechanicus Skitarii, so my idea of easy/hard may be a little tilted!
Gloomspite Gitz have a lot of potential for some very colourful styles. While it's mostly going to default to little green guys in dark robes for the basic infantry, things get substantially more vibrant in more specialist units and accents.

48048025592_63965cca64_b.jpg

99120209054_GloomspiteGItzGobbaPalooza01.jpg
How easy are the seraphons to paint?
I mean, dinosaurs and chameleons are cool, they certainly would make great minis. I kinda got burnt out on ultramarines and how dull they were to paint on repeat, so I'm looking for something where not every single unit has the same colour scheme but at the same time I don't want to have to paint the whole range of citadel colour.
 

Deleted member 29682

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How easy are the seraphons to paint?
I mean, dinosaurs and chameleons are cool, they certainly would make great minis. I kinda got burnt out on ultramarines and how dull they were to paint on repeat, so I'm looking for something where not every single unit has the same colour scheme but at the same time I don't want to have to paint the whole range of citadel colour.

I think they're fairly simple, their weapons and such are quite decorative but their bodies are pretty plain skin or scales. Inks and drybrushing seem pretty helpful to really make them pop. A lot of people change up the colour scheme between Saurus's, Skinks and the various dinosaurs, so you can manage quite a few schemes in a single army without them looking too discordant. Just be aware that a lot of their infantry are a bit on the older side, so your rank and file might not be as flashy or dynamic as everyone else's.

9t2mdohg79b31.jpg
 

Kainazzo

Member
Dec 13, 2017
659
How easy are the seraphons to paint?
I mean, dinosaurs and chameleons are cool, they certainly would make great minis. I kinda got burnt out on ultramarines and how dull they were to paint on repeat, so I'm looking for something where not every single unit has the same colour scheme but at the same time I don't want to have to paint the whole range of citadel colour.

A lot of the Seraphon range is older plastic which may be replaced soonish, or resin (which will be replaced within a couple of years, as per a GW earnings call), though COVID may have changed this. You should stay away from resin (Finecast).

That said, their big dinosaurs like Bastilodons, Stegadons, Carnosaurs, and Ripperdactyls (as well as the other units built from those kits) are all new(ish) and really easy to paint! You can either glue everything and paint them as one piece, or practice sub-assemblies (dinosaur first, then riders), and their scales make for easy drybrush practice. You've got a lot of options on how to tackle those models.
 
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Kwigo

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
8,025
I think they're fairly simple, their weapons and such are quite decorative but their bodies are pretty plain skin or scales. Inks and drybrushing seem pretty helpful to really make them pop. A lot of people change up the colour scheme between Saurus's, Skinks and the various dinosaurs, so you can manage quite a few schemes in a single army without them looking too discordant. Just be aware that a lot of their infantry are a bit on the older side, so your rank and file might not be as flashy or dynamic as everyone else's.

9t2mdohg79b31.jpg
Those look great !
A lot of the Seraphon range is older plastic which may be replaced soonish, or resin (which will be replaced within a couple of years, as per a GW earnings call), though COVID may have changed this.

That said, their big dinosaurs like Bastilodons, Stegadons, Carnosaurs, and Ripperdactyls (as well as the other units built from those kits) are all new(ish) and really easy to paint! You can either glue everything and paint them as one piece, or practice sub-assemblies (dinosaur first, then riders), and their scales make for easy drybrush practice. You've got a lot of options on how to tackle those models.


I'm aware that the base infantries are a bit older, that's why I've been waiting before jumping in, but I think I might just order the start collecting box. Thanks for your answers!
 

Deleted member 29682

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These aren't mine just to clarify, I stole this image from Reddit. They do look great though.

Also note that Seraphon have two Start Collecting boxes: the "Seraphon" one which is Saurus-focused and the Skinks one which is, well, Skink-focused. It will depend on your favourite flavour of dinosaur.
 

fulltimepanda

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,790
so say I want to get into war cry - just need to pick up a warband box? no rule books or any other extras or anything? Been looking for a hobby that's a bit more time consuming and I've already got a good deal of modelling supplies.
 

Deleted member 29682

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so say I want to get into war cry - just need to pick up a warband box? no rule books or any other extras or anything? Been looking for a hobby that's a bit more time consuming and I've already got a good deal of modelling supplies.

From what I can gather, there is a core rulebook and a set of "battleplan cards" which are used to randomly determine positioning, objectives etc. . You could probably improvise these yourself anyway, once you get a feel for the game. Naturally you'll probably only need a single set of these for a game, so if your regular player(s) have a copy of these then there's no sense getting another set. There's also a whole starter set (Catacombs) with two Warbands, relevant rulebooks and terrain but it's a bigger investment. I'd recommend starting small and seeing if it's something you're into first.

Warbands are either bought in a dedicated box or built up from existing AoS faction miniatures. The former come with their info cards in-box afaik, but for the latter you'd need to source these separately, either in their respective card packs or rulebooks.

A lot of GW rulebooks and such can be annoyingly pricey, so it might be worth looking for secondhand copies elsewhere.

EDIT: Oh and don't forget a ruler and a bunch of D6s, very important for all the games. Chances are that if you need anything else, the core rulebook will probably tell you.
 
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laoni

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,710
Apparently, the ebook versions of the Warcry books are about half the price, and they're the preferred means in my local area in Australia. For their price but also the ease of printing out the stat blocks you need
 

Kainazzo

Member
Dec 13, 2017
659
EDIT: Oh and don't forget a ruler and a bunch of D6s, very important for all the games. Chances are that if you need anything else, the core rulebook will probably tell you.

I've always used Chessex dice for my armies. It's amazing what some themed dice can do! I'm working on some grey/cyan/gold/wine Lumineth right now and hey:
f7e42fb351a92505b44307e3b6b8efe0.jpg

Nothing says "we're not Chaos elves" like these! Games Workshop dice will work fine, but like with many things you can find a good alternative for less.
 

Deleted member 29682

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I've always used Chessex dice for my armies. It's amazing what some themed dice can do! I'm working on some grey/cyan/gold/wine Lumineth right now and hey:
f7e42fb351a92505b44307e3b6b8efe0.jpg

Nothing says "we're not Chaos elves" like these! Games Workshop dice will work fine, but like with many things you can find a good alternative for less.

Oh yeah, literally any D6s will do. Mine are basically all scavenged from old board games we haven't played in years. Even if I needed some more I sure as hell wouldn't pay the GW premium for plastic cubes.
 

Kwigo

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
8,025
Just ordered the Seraphon box with (way too many) paints. Let's see how slow it is... (stupid brexit!)
 

Deleted member 29682

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let me know how it looks. I have to do something with this manfred.

It's going to take me a while to get around to painting him so for the sake of providing rapid feedback here's the unpainted version:

manfred-size.jpg


As you can see, the Chaos Knight horse is stockier but not really any bigger than a Black Knight/Hexwraith horse. I had to clip the inner wing-things from his boots to fit properly but you could probably get away with it on a slimmer horse model, and it's a very minor modification anyway. If there's one thing I suggest, it's that you pick a horse with a somewhat dynamic pose, the way Mannfred's cloak is billowing it would look best if there's a sense of motion with the mount.

Also just to note that Chaos Knights come with a 75x42mm base, while mounted Vampire Lords require a 60x35mm base, so it'd be helpful to have a spare one of those around (thankfully I did).
 

Cerulean_skylark

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account.
Banned
Oct 31, 2017
6,408
It's going to take me a while to get around to painting him so for the sake of providing rapid feedback here's the unpainted version:

manfred-size.jpg


As you can see, the Chaos Knight horse is stockier but not really any bigger than a Black Knight/Hexwraith horse. I had to clip the inner wing-things from his boots to fit properly but you could probably get away with it on a slimmer horse model, and it's a very minor modification anyway. If there's one thing I suggest, it's that you pick a horse with a somewhat dynamic pose, the way Mannfred's cloak is billowing it would look best if there's a sense of motion with the mount.

Also just to note that Chaos Knights come with a 75x42mm base, while mounted Vampire Lords require a 60x35mm base, so it'd be helpful to have a spare one of those around (thankfully I did).
OOOH nice. very nice. thanks for trying this out
 

Deleted member 40853

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How is the Underworlds video game adaptation? I've always been curious in these kinds of games, and Underworlds seems like a great system with a lower cost of entry. Problem is with COVID I have nowhere to play it.
 

Valkyr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,934
How is the Underworlds video game adaptation? I've always been curious in these kinds of games, and Underworlds seems like a great system with a lower cost of entry. Problem is with COVID I have nowhere to play it.

It's pretty bare bones and I think is decently far behind the tabletop version in terms of expansions. It does however have a decent tutorial so if you just want to use it to try the game out, it might be worth it, especially if you can find it on sale.