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BigDes

Knows Too Much
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,791
As someone who GMed the Rogue Trader RPG for several years, this has been a dream project of mine for a while, though I had no hope that anyone would make it. Rogue Trader is one of the best WH40K properties for a CRPG because of the scale and scope. You can do pretty much anything with it, and it's always going to be ridiculously over the top.

This isn't WH40K in wargame format, as I suppose most of you are used to. Rogue Trader is a game about exploration, greed, trade, politics, betrayal, and all the good stuff that comes with near limitless power. Outside the borders of the Imperium of Man, none command greater power than a rogue trader. And they often only pay lip service to loyalty beyond themselves, instead using their freedom and distance from Terra to enrich themselves at the cost of others. In the RPG, my players would routinely threaten to kill millions of people (and sometimes did) to gain leverage during trade negotiations. It was a riot.

If the devs can pull this off, it could be absolutely fantastic. I will definitely be keeping a close eye on it.
Yep, in one of our Rogue Trader games we had a hold full of medical supplies to sell, unfortunately the planet we were in orbit around didn't really need them

Judicious use of lance cannons fixed that issue for them, suddenly they needed a lot of medical equipment
 

ara

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,000
As someone who GMed the Rogue Trader RPG for several years, this has been a dream project of mine for a while, though I had no hope that anyone would make it. Rogue Trader is one of the best WH40K properties for a CRPG because of the scale and scope. You can do pretty much anything with it, and it's always going to be ridiculously over the top.

This isn't WH40K in wargame format, as I suppose most of you are used to. Rogue Trader is a game about exploration, greed, trade, politics, betrayal, and all the good stuff that comes with near limitless power. Outside the borders of the Imperium of Man, none command greater power than a rogue trader. And they often only pay lip service to loyalty beyond themselves, instead using their freedom and distance from Terra to enrich themselves at the cost of others. In the RPG, my players would routinely threaten to kill millions of people (and sometimes did) to gain leverage during trade negotiations. It was a riot.

If the devs can pull this off, it could be absolutely fantastic. I will definitely be keeping a close eye on it.

Okay, now I'm excited. If they just nail the ruleset and balancing (less absolute trap builds in particular) I have a feeling this might be pretty fucking magical. I love KM and WoTR (even if I do have some major issues with the aforementioned balancing).
 

LavaBadger

Member
Nov 14, 2017
4,986
This sounds fantastic. I know it's probably years away, but I really hope we're in for a golden age of Warhammer games between stuff like Daemonhunters, Darktide, and this. (Total Warhammer of course also being a thing people love.)

Now they just need to get Blood Bowl 3 right.
 

Mindwipe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,202
London
I definitely like the idea of this (especially that it's Rogue Traders rather than Marines) but the art in the trailer looked pretty rough tbh.
 

Remeran

Member
Nov 27, 2018
3,892
Owlcat is doing a lot of heavy lifting for the CRPG Genre, this is a day 1 purchase for me.
 
Oct 28, 2017
793
Okay, now I'm excited. If they just nail the ruleset and balancing (less absolute trap builds in particular) I have a feeling this might be pretty fucking magical. I love KM and WoTR (even if I do have some major issues with the aforementioned balancing).

I figure they'll lift it wholesale from the sourcebook, warts and all, though others can comment on the actual balance since I've never played the Rogue Traders RPG.

I am a little torn on Owlcat and "balance", outside of the obvious case where the dominant builds early in their game's life tend to be glitch or exploit based. On one hand I do want everything to be viable ala Pillars of Eternity for character build purposes but on the other hand.... there's something magical about getting over a hundred classes to try with some obviously weak stuff (like building a skill monkey in WOTR is asking for trouble) but finding some crazy ass absurd synergy anyways. Leaving in all those weak options is terrible from a balance standpoint but half the fun of Owlcat games for me is brainstorming crazy builds. I think there's an entire subsection of DnD that doesn't even worry so much about playing the game but just has fun figuring out absurd optimizations and posting online about them.
 

LordGorchnik

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,281
As someone who has had very little exposure to both WH and WH40K as a whole can anyone shed more.....details on what we can potentially expect from this? Naturally you won't know as you're not the devs but this was not a setting I expected to see. I guess my first burning questions are:

1) It seems RT is a completely separate setting from the actual 40K mythos? Yes/No? If yes, what exactly makes it different from what 40K entails besides it just being.....ya know full of traders and money rather than armies and weapons? Is that the only distinguishing feature?
2) What kind of class system (as well as races) can we expect from this game? Assuming it follows along the lines of other digital cRPG rules that we've seen these past 25 years? Are there only rogues? Are there soldiers? Medics? Faction Leaders? Anyone whose actually played the game able to shed more light?
3) From videos I am seeing can any galaxy race be a rogue trader? Or is it only humans? Seeing a lot of humanoid only race pictures when looking info up.
 

tekomandor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
522
I figure they'll lift it wholesale from the sourcebook, warts and all, though others can comment on the actual balance since I've never played the Rogue Traders RPG.

I am a little torn on Owlcat and "balance", outside of the obvious case where the dominant builds early in their game's life tend to be glitch or exploit based. On one hand I do want everything to be viable ala Pillars of Eternity for character build purposes but on the other hand.... there's something magical about getting over a hundred classes to try with some obviously weak stuff (like building a skill monkey in WOTR is asking for trouble) but finding some crazy ass absurd synergy anyways. Leaving in all those weak options is terrible from a balance standpoint but half the fun of Owlcat games for me is brainstorming crazy builds. I think there's an entire subsection of DnD that doesn't even worry so much about playing the game but just has fun figuring out absurd optimizations and posting online about them.
It's interesting because the Dark Heresy system has been totally out of print for years now, but the system it was based on is still going in an evolved form. If they are going for classic d100 Warhammer, I wouldn't mind them pulling a little from WFRP4e.
 

Uzzy

Gabe’s little helper
Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,086
Hull, UK
Okay, now I'm excited. If they just nail the ruleset and balancing (less absolute trap builds in particular) I have a feeling this might be pretty fucking magical. I love KM and WoTR (even if I do have some major issues with the aforementioned balancing).

A good thing is that with Wrath of the Righteous they've shown real quality in delivering pretty major plot changing paths for your character, the Mythic paths. I can see similar being deployed in this game depending on what factions you might be friendly with.
 
Feb 19, 2018
1,648
Gonna copy most of my last comment from the Wrath of the Righteous OT and add some to it.

I have to say, a 40k CRPG by Owlcat sound really fuckin' great (IMO they are easily the best CRPG developer on the market and I still consider both Kingmaker and Wrath of the Righteous to be the best western CRPGs since Baldur's Gate II). There have never been any proper story-focused Warhammer RPGs so far (that one mediocre Eisenhorn-game and really old titles from the 90s aside) and particularly not any CRPGs, even if the IP's extremely dense lore begs for it. I especially like that they are expanding their team and Rouge Trader isn't taking away from their capacity to develop more Pathfinder titles.

That there seems to be playable (or companion) Adeptus Mechanicus tech priests and Sisters of Battle makes it even better. Anyone who has ever played the excellent game Mechanicus knows how awesome and unique a faction the AdMech is and how deep their lore runs, though they are sadly underrepresented in 40k videogames.

I also like the Banner Saga-esque cutscenes. The only big unknown remains what rules system Owlcat is going to use.
 

Uzzy

Gabe’s little helper
Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,086
Hull, UK
As someone who has had very little exposure to both WH and WH40K as a whole can anyone shed more.....details on what we can potentially expect from this? Naturally you won't know as you're not the devs but this was not a setting I expected to see. I guess my first burning questions are:

1) It seems RT is a completely separate setting from the actual 40K mythos? Yes/No? If yes, what exactly makes it different from what 40K entails besides it just being.....ya know full of traders and money rather than armies and weapons? Is that the only distinguishing feature?
2) What kind of class system (as well as races) can we expect from this game? Assuming it follows along the lines of other digital cRPG rules that we've seen these past 25 years? Are there only rogues? Are there soldiers? Medics? Faction Leaders? Anyone whose actually played the game able to shed more light?
3) From videos I am seeing can any galaxy race be a rogue trader? Or is it only humans? Seeing a lot of humanoid only race pictures when looking info up.

Rogue Trader is not a separate setting no, it's part of the Warhammer 40k mythos. What's different/unique is that each Rogue Trader is explicitly given permission to interact, trade with and actually talk to alien races. They're individualistic merchants for the most part, but some can organise their own private armies or lead their own personal crusades.

You'll almost certainly get to build your own character, and probably best to design them as a 'faction leader', but there's plenty of other classes that your companions will fill out, like tech priests, actual priests, frontline soldiers, roguish types.

Rogue Traders are all Imperials, so humans, but the aforementioned permission slip, the Warrant of Trade, does give them a lot of freedom to do things, which might include having alien races working with you.
 
May 29, 2021
25
Love their pathfinder games. I have little to no exposure to Warhammer besides the PC RTS games in the mid 2000s. Does Warhammer 40k have tabletop rules that can transfer easily to a CRPG? Is it easy to learn if you know other D20 tabletop rulesets?
 

Spacejaws

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,789
Scotland
Kinda sad that its turn based tactical. Looked a nit like Shadowrun which was good but I hope it doesn't step on the same notes too much.
 

Uzzy

Gabe’s little helper
Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,086
Hull, UK
Love their pathfinder games. I have little to no exposure to Warhammer besides the PC RTS games in the mid 2000s. Does Warhammer 40k have tabletop rules that can transfer easily to a CRPG? Is it easy to learn if you know other D20 tabletop rulesets?

Yes for sure, both the old d100 system from Black Industries/FFG and the more current d6 Wrath of Glory system. I'm sure Owlcat will be able to convert them over.
 

Herr Starr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,222
Norway
As someone who has had very little exposure to both WH and WH40K as a whole can anyone shed more.....details on what we can potentially expect from this? Naturally you won't know as you're not the devs but this was not a setting I expected to see. I guess my first burning questions are:

1) It seems RT is a completely separate setting from the actual 40K mythos? Yes/No? If yes, what exactly makes it different from what 40K entails besides it just being.....ya know full of traders and money rather than armies and weapons? Is that the only distinguishing feature?
2) What kind of class system (as well as races) can we expect from this game? Assuming it follows along the lines of other digital cRPG rules that we've seen these past 25 years? Are there only rogues? Are there soldiers? Medics? Faction Leaders? Anyone whose actually played the game able to shed more light?
3) From videos I am seeing can any galaxy race be a rogue trader? Or is it only humans? Seeing a lot of humanoid only race pictures when looking info up.

It's going to be a little difficult to wrap one's head around Rogue Trader if all one has been exposed to is the wargaming side of the franchise. To put it into real-world terms, Rogue Trader is like the discovery of America where you are the explorers, setting out to bring civilization and religion to the heathens (or murder them all if they resist), trade with (read: exploit) the natives, and enrich yourself in the process. All the while, you are in the possession of a ship (or a fleet of ships) that the people you encounter can barely even dream about.

To put things into perspective, the Rogue Trader RPG was the first game where Fantasy Flight Games outright ditched the concept of tracking the players' money. Money is almost irrelevant to a rogue trader. You are so filthy rich from the very beginning that you start having to buy at scale before you might not be able to pay for something. Buying a single lasrifle is a meaningless expense to you. You probably don't even know what it costs or what those numbers mean ("how much could a banana cost? Ten dollars?") Equipping a whole company of soldiers with lasguns is more like it, and even then, you'll probably leave the details to your retinue of accountants.

To answer your specific questions:

1) RT is the regular WH40k setting. The main difference is that it primarily takes place outside of the borders of the Imperium of Man, and your character's words are expected to be followed as if they were the words of the Emperor himself.

2) There are many classes, and they are of a grander scale than you might be used to. You're not just a soldier; you're a celebrated war veteran who leads armies into battle. You're not just a spy; you're a seneschal who employs hundreds of people who report directly to you. You're not just a pilot; you sit in the plot chair on a massive starship with tens of thousands of crew, issuing commands to dozens of lesser officers and even other ships.

3) Rogue traders have a lot of... leeway when it comes to the rules of the Imperium. If they want to have nonhumans in their crew, they can. Possibly. Until they return to the Imperium, anyway. It's not unusual for rogue traders to employ nonhumans, particularly Aeldari or the lesser races like Kroot. But rogue traders and their crew are, typically, human or servitor.
 

Mudcrab

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
3,413
Love their pathfinder games. I have little to no exposure to Warhammer besides the PC RTS games in the mid 2000s. Does Warhammer 40k have tabletop rules that can transfer easily to a CRPG? Is it easy to learn if you know other D20 tabletop rulesets?

Oh yes from the actual Table Top rules to the more familiar RPG setup in Dark Heresy for just one example.
 
Feb 19, 2018
1,648
The miniatures they released for kill team:rogue trader and Blackstone fortress are just full of character as well. Let me get some pictures.
BlackstonePreview-Oct29-RogueTrader1vrg.jpg
Fun fact: He is actually in the trailer (as the 'main character', no less).
 

LordGorchnik

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,281


These are all great details. More questions then:

1) So as Rogue Traders we are still trying to do the "Will of the emperor" right? I know nothing about 40K so that statement may be wrong but from my understanding its that basically: humans are the best, aliens need to be subjugated, colonized, and civilized, or if that fails, just exterminate them. But maybe thats the RTs code? Where as the Empire of Man just wants to kill all xenomorphs?

2) It sounds like Xenos (sp?) technology is anything in this galaxy that is not made by humanoids and is incredibly illegal to own/operate. However, RTs sometimes utilize it because their mission is dangerous and lets them survive. Is Xenos tech usually more powerful than what man has or is it just "different and misunderstood?"

Interest is slowly rising.
 

Altairre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,034
Wrath of the Righteous was fucking dope so I'm beyond excited for this. Probably still a good idea to wait a couple of months after release because as much as I enjoyed WotR at release, it was buggy as fuuuuuuuck (and so was Kingmaker).
 

xyla

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,385
Germany
It's 40k so people what people probably really want to do is interact with or even play as a Space Marine.
Are there rogue Space Marines that could join your party?
 

Tovarisc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,404
FIN
It's 40k so people what people probably really want to do is interact with or even play as a Space Marine.
Are there rogue Space Marines that could join your party?

Art at end of trailer shows some companions, like for Pathfinder games in their trailers.

One companion clearly is space marine and another is battle sister.
 

Nkcell

Member
Jun 24, 2020
754
It's 40k so people what people probably really want to do is interact with or even play as a Space Marine.
Are there rogue Space Marines that could join your party?

I think a lot of people are actually clamoring for other parts of the 40K universe since all the other games are so space marine centric.
 

Uzzy

Gabe’s little helper
Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,086
Hull, UK
These are all great details. More questions then:

1) So as Rogue Traders we are still trying to do the "Will of the emperor" right? I know nothing about 40K so that statement may be wrong but from my understanding its that basically: humans are the best, aliens need to be subjugated, colonized, and civilized, or if that fails, just exterminate them. But maybe thats the RTs code? Where as the Empire of Man just wants to kill all xenomorphs?

2) It sounds like Xenos (sp?) technology is anything in this galaxy that is not made by humanoids and is incredibly illegal to own/operate. However, RTs sometimes utilize it because their mission is dangerous and lets them survive. Is Xenos tech usually more powerful than what man has or is it just "different and misunderstood?"

Interest is slowly rising.

Sometimes, it would depend on the Rogue Trader themselves. Some are definitely going to view themselves as the tip of humanity's spear, exploring the unknown and subjugating or destroying any aliens they find. Others might be more subtle and trade with/exploit them and get absurdly rich in the process. Others still might be legitimate explorers and take a more pragmatic approach. Sure technically the Imperium is all about killing all aliens, but you might not want to drag the Imperium into another war against relatively friendly aliens when there's demons from literal hell attacking. I would imagine there'd be space for all those approaches in this game.

Xenos/Alien technology is incredibly illegal to use yep. Most any technology is really. Sometimes it's more powerful, other times it's just forgotten tech that was once common place but because the knowledge got lost 10,000 years ago it's utterly forbidden to use now because no one can read the instruction manual anymore. Still, Rogue Traders have that permission slip that gives them relative autonomy, and stopping you from doing something would take a fair chunk of power, political, military, legal etc.
 

Aeana

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,923
Wrath of the Righteous was fucking dope so I'm beyond excited for this. Probably still a good idea to wait a couple of months after release because as much as I enjoyed WotR at release, it was buggy as fuuuuuuuck (and so was Kingmaker).
Yeah, I learned that lesson with Kingmaker so I waited to play Wrath. I'm in the middle of it now and I'm having such a blast. It was hard to wait, but I'm glad I did, because it seems like it's in a pretty good state now.
 

xyla

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,385
Germany

Herr Starr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,222
Norway
These are all great details. More questions then:

1) So as Rogue Traders we are still trying to do the "Will of the emperor" right?

That's definitely what you'd tell anyone who dares question your motivation. Even if your actions seem to run in exact opposition to the Imperium's stated goals.

I know nothing about 40K so that statement may be wrong but from my understanding its that basically: humans are the best, aliens need to be subjugated, colonized, and civilized, or if that fails, just exterminate them. But maybe thats the RTs code? Where as the Empire of Man just wants to kill all xenomorphs?

Aliens (xenos) must be exterminated. There is no subjugation, colonization, or civilization when it comes to them. But rogue traders often see things differently. In the game I ran, my players actually established a somewhat respectful relationship with a group of Aeldari. They also straight up put Xenos technology on their ships or carried Xenos weapons into battle. I mean, who's going to question them? The Inquisition has no authority where rogue traders go.

2) It sounds like Xenos (sp?) technology is anything in this galaxy that is not made by humanoids and is incredibly illegal to own/operate. However, RTs sometimes utilize it because their mission is dangerous and lets them survive. Is Xenos tech usually more powerful than what man has or is it just "different and misunderstood?"

Any Xenos technology is deeply mistrusted at best (and for good reason!) and strictly illegal inside the borders of the Imperium. A rogue trader can get away with it (maybe) because of the sheer power they command. And yeah, Xenotech can be quite powerful, but usually with... drawbacks. Imagine installing a new engine that runs much faster than your old one, except the crew members working in that part of the ship are suddenly and randomly disappearing while the rest report whispers next to their ears even when entirely alone. Or your new macro-cannons that are super-effective but seem to require ritual human sacrifice before every volley fired.

But of course, it's all business. Ka-ching!

It's 40k so people what people probably really want to do is interact with or even play as a Space Marine.
Are there rogue Space Marines that could join your party?

It's possible, but it requires stretching believability a little for a space marine to join a rogue trader's crew outside the borders of the Imperium. I mean, it has happened in the lore, but it's very rare. What is more reasonable to expect is to see Chaos Space Marines in battle or to have a squad of Adeptus Astartes as your temporary allies for certain missions.
 

Dosmo

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
470
They need to put "From the makers of Pathfinder" all over the marketing for this so it doesn't get lost among the dozens of mediocre 40k games that seem to come out all the time.
 

Altairre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,034
Yeah, I learned that lesson with Kingmaker so I waited to play Wrath. I'm in the middle of it now and I'm having such a blast. It was hard to wait, but I'm glad I did, because it seems like it's in a pretty good state now.
You definitely made the right call. Act 1 was quite polished when it came out because apparently that was the stuff they released for early access but there were a LOT of bugs further in. Had a bunch of broken quests and progression blockers (luckily I keep a ton of saves in these games so I was usually able to work my way around it). I have to say though, even with those issues it's an awesome game and considering its scope and ambition there's just not a good way to avoid the downsides.

I'll probably still be there day 1 for this because I just can't help myself. Very confident about the project as a whole.
 

Uzzy

Gabe’s little helper
Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,086
Hull, UK
It's 40k so people what people probably really want to do is interact with or even play as a Space Marine.
Are there rogue Space Marines that could join your party?

Potentially. From the artwork it looks like there might be a Space Marine companion, and given the popularity of them I'd not be surprised to see one. Space Marines can be exiled from their chapter and told 'go do this impossible task and if you survive you are absolved of your sins'. The Space Wolf chapter has 'Lone Wolves', i.e. Marines who are the last survivors of their squad, they often ask to leave the chapter and go off to seek a glorious death. There's also Deathwatch Kill-Marines, solo operators who were pretty much invented in the Deathwatch RPG to allow players to play Deathwatch Marines in Rogue Trader/Dark Heresy. All of those would still be in the Imperial wheelhouse.

There's also of course Renegade Space Marines, those who have left the Imperium but haven't fallen to Chaos. The most pragmatic of Rogue Traders might have them around for very special reasons, but their presence would certainly be frowned upon the moment you went back to an Imperial port.
 

Uzzy

Gabe’s little helper
Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,086
Hull, UK
That's definitely what you'd tell anyone who dares question your motivation. Even if your actions seem to run in exact opposition to the Imperium's stated goals.

From the blurb on the Owlcat website, it looks like your Warrant of Trade was signed by the Emperor himself. So I imagine you'll be able to pull that out when you're questioned in this game.
 

Herr Starr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,222
Norway
From the blurb on the Owlcat website, it looks like your Warrant of Trade was signed by the Emperor himself. So I imagine you'll be able to pull that out when you're questioned in this game.

Yes, the Warrant of Trade is what gives you your power, and it has typically been passed down through the rogue trader's family for many, many, many generations. It is the reason why the words of a rogue trader can be considered as practically the words of the Emperor Himself (outside the Imperium, anyway). It's not something you just "pull out", though. Perhaps a copy. The Warrant itself is too valuable to risk, so it's kept safely tucked away somewhere, potentially on your main ship.
 

Uzzy

Gabe’s little helper
Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,086
Hull, UK
Yes, the Warrant of Trade is what gives you your power, and it has typically been passed down through the rogue trader's family for many, many, many generations. It is the reason why the words of a rogue trader can be considered as practically the words of the Emperor Himself (outside the Imperium, anyway). It's not something you just "pull out", though. Perhaps a copy. The Warrant itself is too valuable to risk, so it's kept safely tucked away somewhere, potentially on your main ship.

Metaphorically pull out, if you had something signed by the Emperor that'd be a holy relic more valuable than the entire ship!