Would they not be ok with it if it's almost entirely GW bits? I had (eternally unfulfilled) ambitions of a kitbashed Beastmen Guard (Gor squaddies, Minotaur Ogryn etc.) which could be done with solely Beastmen, IG bits and greenstuff.
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Would they not be ok with it if it's almost entirely GW bits? I had (eternally unfulfilled) ambitions of a kitbashed Beastmen Guard (Gor squaddies, Minotaur Ogryn etc.) which could be done with solely Beastmen, IG bits and greenstuff.
Some of the newest GW models are incredibly fiddly/fragile/tedious, yeah. I don't think I've countered anything close to being as bad as the cigar that comes with the new Necromunda Goliath models. Its so small and fiddly that you'd never notice it if you don't pay careful attention to the instructions.
Since Greigor posted something simliar, it was a death corp of krieg vs orks starter set for a new edition of kill team. (he just had steel legion instead of death korp).
i haven't built the new flayed one models yet, but they're supposed to be super super fiddly.
Some of the Sisters of battle I've found to be quite fiddly when assembling, lots of fragile parts.
Awesome! Have you been working up from Tau Ochre or something?
The elven Blood Bowl teams have all been a major pita to assemble. Some of the star player parts are only hanging on by a thread and a prayer. Seriously, who thought connecting these expansive and top heavy models to their bases by a single tiny foot was a good idea? I feel like many BB models will break just by looking at them sideways. I can't imagine actually handing them all the time while playing. At least the vast majority of Necromunda models are super solid, as well as my terminators for space hulk.
And these are models meant to be constantly placed prone in various ways during a game. But it could be worse. It could be metal miniatures like the classic ones and most third party brands until recently.
Chipping, chipping everywhere.
I painted a metal Tech Priest over several days a few months ago and the paint was chipping as I was painting it.
Now imagine playing with them, knocking them over between 0 and 16 times per game and being handled in both, your and your opponent turn. 4-5 games in a 1-day tournament or 6-16 rounds+Playoffs in a league. And, most of the time, over a hard cardboard surface.
Those paintjobs are just doomed. They are even nowadays, with mousepad pitches starting to be relatively common (although still quite niche).
Those paintjobs are just doomed. They are even nowadays, with mousepad pitches starting to be relatively common (although still quite niche).
I hope I don't get banned for this but that thread in the EtcetEra board just makes me feel like I don't belong in some way.
I get where people are coming from with the problematic elements, and I certainly won't deny their merits, but I just can't find myself feeling as upset as others do, and it makes me feel like I'm the bad guy.
But then I go on say, /tg/ and its the complete opposite where its a bunch of shitty neckbeards and I feel disgusted by them, and in the end I feel like some crappy fence sitter or something. I dunno. Sorry for the whinge.
I get where people are coming from with the problematic elements, and I certainly won't deny their merits, but I just can't find myself feeling as upset as others do, and it makes me feel like I'm the bad guy.
But then I go on say, /tg/ and its the complete opposite where its a bunch of shitty neckbeards and I feel disgusted by them, and in the end I feel like some crappy fence sitter or something. I dunno. Sorry for the whinge.
I think wider criticism of 40K is inevitable and a very good thing. It's a sign of the IP reaching for both multimedia and mainstream, and maturing into something that needs to stand up to critical appraisal rather than a boys club hidden away in plain sight (bearing in mind they remain a sizeable U.K. retail chain) after nearly 35 years.
GW has made great strides in recent years. Telling bigots to piss off and that they won't be missed, in echo of the famous 40K introduction. Bumping up the Sororitas to a full range and equal share in the spotlight for the intro to 9th edition. More diversity in who is represented on book covers, and in skin tones when the studio paints armies. More powerful heroes that aren't just white guys. More women writing the books (admittedly, an increase of 100% would still be a tiny minority, but Danie Ware and Rachel Harrison are always worth reading). They've still got a hell of a long way to go, and they could still do more to confront the inherent problematic elements of 40K, of which there is a long, long list.
I think them making it clear that they are a modern company selling a setting where everything is a perverse, terrifying mirror of the worst of humanity helps. But there are a lot of inconsistencies. Stuff like the novel protagonists tend to present Imperial characters as a good guy/force in a broken system, and rarely confronts the fact that they are all indoctrinated into a fascist death cult from birth. Like, you have to have flashes of light, of humour, friendship, heroism and romance or neither the mundane horrors of totalitarianism/fascism or the corrupts-everything-it-touches-if you-even-think-about-it nature of chaos body-horror mean much. But there is an issue when the setting itself is a broken nightmare of a galaxy but almost every single human protagonist remains largely functional and recognisable to us as 'heroic' despite GW hammering home how the rotting carcass of the Imperium in its death throes really isn't any better than those picking at it's corpse. And I think a publishing arm selling hundreds of books in that setting kinda needs to find ways to challenge that.
I've loved WFB/40K and the rest since the 1980s. I grew up reading 2000AD and the rest long before 40K coalesced it's influences into what it is today. And I think it's really, really healthy to discuss the problems and themes within it. It's big enough to take the criticism. It's changed in the face of it and it's so much better for it. But there's still a long way to go.
The uniqueness of the setting, that there's room for crime, comedy (I love the 'Big Brothers' comic strip on the community site), intrigue and horror away from the battlefield, the influence of the age of sail and any planet can be whatever you want for a story, means they created room for an IP they can do anything with. It all means there's room to improve where criticism of its failings holds water, and it often does.
I want to be able to play tabletop games with my daughter one day, and I hope criticism continues to push the setting into a fantasy nightmare galaxy where everyone can visit now and then and be horrified by it together. And where the Imperium is challenged by the out-of-universe writers for the awfulness that it is supposed to be, rather than sticking to rules and lore laid down when the core audience was very much me as a child and a handful of young white male writers thought that having everyone of any power in a tyrannical empire as a buff white guy demigod, and then making some of them the exemplars of all that was 'good', was a good idea..
GW has made great strides in recent years. Telling bigots to piss off and that they won't be missed, in echo of the famous 40K introduction. Bumping up the Sororitas to a full range and equal share in the spotlight for the intro to 9th edition. More diversity in who is represented on book covers, and in skin tones when the studio paints armies. More powerful heroes that aren't just white guys. More women writing the books (admittedly, an increase of 100% would still be a tiny minority, but Danie Ware and Rachel Harrison are always worth reading). They've still got a hell of a long way to go, and they could still do more to confront the inherent problematic elements of 40K, of which there is a long, long list.
I think them making it clear that they are a modern company selling a setting where everything is a perverse, terrifying mirror of the worst of humanity helps. But there are a lot of inconsistencies. Stuff like the novel protagonists tend to present Imperial characters as a good guy/force in a broken system, and rarely confronts the fact that they are all indoctrinated into a fascist death cult from birth. Like, you have to have flashes of light, of humour, friendship, heroism and romance or neither the mundane horrors of totalitarianism/fascism or the corrupts-everything-it-touches-if you-even-think-about-it nature of chaos body-horror mean much. But there is an issue when the setting itself is a broken nightmare of a galaxy but almost every single human protagonist remains largely functional and recognisable to us as 'heroic' despite GW hammering home how the rotting carcass of the Imperium in its death throes really isn't any better than those picking at it's corpse. And I think a publishing arm selling hundreds of books in that setting kinda needs to find ways to challenge that.
I've loved WFB/40K and the rest since the 1980s. I grew up reading 2000AD and the rest long before 40K coalesced it's influences into what it is today. And I think it's really, really healthy to discuss the problems and themes within it. It's big enough to take the criticism. It's changed in the face of it and it's so much better for it. But there's still a long way to go.
The uniqueness of the setting, that there's room for crime, comedy (I love the 'Big Brothers' comic strip on the community site), intrigue and horror away from the battlefield, the influence of the age of sail and any planet can be whatever you want for a story, means they created room for an IP they can do anything with. It all means there's room to improve where criticism of its failings holds water, and it often does.
I want to be able to play tabletop games with my daughter one day, and I hope criticism continues to push the setting into a fantasy nightmare galaxy where everyone can visit now and then and be horrified by it together. And where the Imperium is challenged by the out-of-universe writers for the awfulness that it is supposed to be, rather than sticking to rules and lore laid down when the core audience was very much me as a child and a handful of young white male writers thought that having everyone of any power in a tyrannical empire as a buff white guy demigod, and then making some of them the exemplars of all that was 'good', was a good idea..
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I agree with everything you said Redcrayon. I guess its just a part of me doesn't find some aspects to be as problematic as some say, so I can't help but wonder if thats a failing on my part or something.
Then again I'm also a fan of Gundam where there's a lot of people who are fans of the obvious Nazi analog (I mean they literally would shout SIEG ZEON ) so maybe I'm just good at blinding myself to these issues.
Then again I'm also a fan of Gundam where there's a lot of people who are fans of the obvious Nazi analog (I mean they literally would shout SIEG ZEON ) so maybe I'm just good at blinding myself to these issues.
It doesn't help that wargaming has a lot of terrible, terrible fans to begin with, and that 40k in particular lives in that sort-of-satire sort-of-sincere space that lends itself really easily to pulling people into a bad place.
I think it's fine to give he company and the setting both barrels, just keep in mind that when people take it to the game or the lore, they're not taking it to you. Embrace critiquing your favorite things. Even if you don't agree, that doesn't mean it's unfair or an attack.
I think it's fine to give he company and the setting both barrels, just keep in mind that when people take it to the game or the lore, they're not taking it to you. Embrace critiquing your favorite things. Even if you don't agree, that doesn't mean it's unfair or an attack.
tbh, I have dumb fun with the lore, but it's clearly meant to sell miniatures, so I just like it when justifies cool miniatures.
I have zero problem with Primaris Marines as a miniatures reboot, Chaos/Normal Space Marines were pretty much the same exact faction with one having spikey bits - differentating them and reinforcing Sisters of Battle is a good ). I have tones of them problem with the lore, but at the end of the day I don't give a shit cuz the miniatures look cool.
I have zero problem with Primaris Marines as a miniatures reboot, Chaos/Normal Space Marines were pretty much the same exact faction with one having spikey bits - differentating them and reinforcing Sisters of Battle is a good ). I have tones of them problem with the lore, but at the end of the day I don't give a shit cuz the miniatures look cool.
The thing is, look at the critique it's getting, but also see some of the acknowledgment that it's moving (slowly) in the right direction. That's due to critique. You don't have to agree with it all, but then, you don't have to agree with everything in the IP either, and everyone's entitled to their opinion on it. It's massive, changing direction is like the turning circle of a battleship when everything has to be planned years in advance, but every piece of bang-on-target critique helps steer it in the right direction, even if you think some of it misses the target. The IP also has clear strengths that make it a movable feast able to change and endure, but they don't need to be brought up in its defence every time when fresh perspectives are far more valuable than ones that have already been trod for decades.
Agree with all of this. A huge IP built around a wargame that's supposed to be a turned-up-to-11 satire of fascism, authoritarianism, xenophobia, theocracy etc needs to be extra vigilant about the kind of people in the hobby that will gleefully miss the point that GW don't always make as clearly as they should when mass loss of life no. 3949204 saves the day in yet another pyrrhic victory.
It's something I feel had slipped over time, as it's roots in the 80s gave way to the retail explosion and a sales strategy of needing to sell brightly coloured storm troopers to kids, and thus glossing over an awful lot of what was much clearer a decade earlier. Accompanied by GW being very insular and not really wanting to talk publicly about it. It's always been there in the core books, but memes move an awful lot quicker, and they've been insanely slow to act. At least they finally did.
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I think the thing to remember is that we're all adults capable of handling this stuff. GW is not a malevolent company and it's completely ok to like grimdark space fantasy.
Reading Siege of Terra: Mortis at the moment. The book is one of the better ones in the sub- series that I've read so far, mostly as the Titan combat is interesting, there's some cool descriptive stuff in it and the callbacks to Titandeath (one of the last HH books before the siege) add something if you're a longtime reader.
One thing that is irritating is that a major event seems to get skipped over in a paragraph or two, but we get endless long sections about the bloody perpetual, Oll Perrson and his search for John Grammaticus. I just can't bring myself to care about these characters at all, it's so drawn out and tedious. Meanwhile you've also got great characters like Katsuhiro, a conscript whose been on the front line since book 2 and who is really the human's eye view of it all, who seems to get less abs less focus. I'm just skipping through all the perpetual stuff as it's boring as hell.
My current rating-
The Solar War- 2/5
The Lost and the Damned- 4/5
The First Wall- 2/5
Saturnine- 5/5.
Mortis- 3/5 (so far, I'm about halfway through).
Definitely a mixed bag so far.
One thing that is irritating is that a major event seems to get skipped over in a paragraph or two, but we get endless long sections about the bloody perpetual, Oll Perrson and his search for John Grammaticus. I just can't bring myself to care about these characters at all, it's so drawn out and tedious. Meanwhile you've also got great characters like Katsuhiro, a conscript whose been on the front line since book 2 and who is really the human's eye view of it all, who seems to get less abs less focus. I'm just skipping through all the perpetual stuff as it's boring as hell.
My current rating-
The Solar War- 2/5
The Lost and the Damned- 4/5
The First Wall- 2/5
Saturnine- 5/5.
Mortis- 3/5 (so far, I'm about halfway through).
Definitely a mixed bag so far.
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I bear in mind that even as I critique aspects of 40k I am sitting in a room full of Warhammer stuff. Criticizing stuff you're also into is natural, but one also should try to not feel bad when other people critique aspects you haven't. Warhammer in particular is a big, complicated monstrosity of a property. It can never mean the same things to everyone that looks at it.
Been talking about it for a bit, but I've put together my 2000pt list for Nurgle featuring Slaanesh
The idea here again is to drop the Nurglings upfront to hold up the enemy and give the Slaanesh units enough time to move up whine the Nurgle units just take the objectives
Code:
Daemon - Strike Force - Eternal War ( 5CP - 1998PT - 2PT )
Daemon Patrol Detachment ( 2CP - 655PT )
SUB-FACTION: Nurgle
HQ
Mamon Transfigured (130)
MARK OF CHAOS: Nurgle
WARLORD: Poxbringer (75)
MARK OF CHAOS: Nurgle
TRAITS: Plaguefly Hive
PSYCHIC POWERS: Fleshy Abundance
TROOPS
Plaguebearers (270)
MARK OF CHAOS: Nurgle
1x Plagueridden
29x Plaguebearer
STRATAGEMS: Plague Banner
Plaguebearers (180)
MARK OF CHAOS: Nurgle
1x Plagueridden
19x Plaguebearer
Daemon Battalion Detachment ( 3CP - 843PT )
SUB-FACTION: Nurgle
HQ
Rotigus (270)
MARK OF CHAOS: Nurgle
PSYCHIC POWERS: Fleshy Abundance, Mark of Nurgle: Miasma of Pestilence, Virulent Blessing
Sloppity Bilepiper (65)
MARK OF CHAOS: Nurgle
Spoilpox Scrivener (100)
MARK OF CHAOS: Nurgle
TROOPS
Nurglings (66)
MARK OF CHAOS: Nurgle
3x Nurgling Swarm
Nurglings (66)
MARK OF CHAOS: Nurgle
3x Nurgling Swarm
Nurglings (66)
MARK OF CHAOS: Nurgle
3x Nurgling Swarm
ELITES
Beasts of Nurgle (35)
MARK OF CHAOS: Nurgle
Beasts of Nurgle (35)
MARK OF CHAOS: Nurgle
Beasts of Nurgle (35)
MARK OF CHAOS: Nurgle
FAST ATTACK
Plague Drones (105)
MARK OF CHAOS: Nurgle
1x Plaguebringer
2x Plague Drone
Daemon Patrol Detachment ( 2CP - 500PT )
SUB-FACTION: Slaanesh
HQ
Keeper of Secrets (230)
MARK OF CHAOS: Slaanesh
PSYCHIC POWERS: Delightful Agonies, Pavane of Slaanesh
RELICS: The Endless Gift
TROOPS
Daemonettes (225)
MARK OF CHAOS: Slaanesh
1x Alluress
1x Daemonette: Daemonic Icon
28x Daemonette
STRATAGEMS: Rapturous Standard
FAST ATTACK
Furies (45)
ALLEGIANCE: Slaanesh
5x Fury
STRATAGEMS
Plague Banner (1CP)
Rapturous Standard (1CP)
Total Command Points: 9/14
Reinforcement Points: 2
Total Points: 1998/2000The idea here again is to drop the Nurglings upfront to hold up the enemy and give the Slaanesh units enough time to move up whine the Nurgle units just take the objectives
I didn't mean to make anyone feel excluded with my posts.
40k is not pro-nazi or right wing, but because it doesn't explicitly state that it isnt it has gathered a rather large nazi and right wing fanbase. Not everyone but like... more than it should or they intend.
Sosmthign I've realised about media in general is that if you don't explicitly state or show that you aren't pro nazi then nazis will attach to you hard.
I still hold that Black Library often cower out of committing their own themes though. So many books go super hard into "war is bad." but then deus ex machina that message at the end into "but actually its good for now."
Gundam also has the Zeon has its leader compare his son to Hitler. Not just subtle, but overt fascism in the baddies. And people still love to shout Seig Zeon at cons. Hella uncomfortable.
I'm all about maliciously reinterpretting lore. Genestealer cults are proudly proletarian union folk, and all this talk of a four-armed emperor is Imperium propaganda. The talk of Tau brainwashing members and of the caste system is again just the Imperium trying to prevent people from joining the Greater Good, which is actually good. Yes, I am a fan of Sigmarxism.
I really like the way the genestealer cult theme is a gross perversion of the uprising of the oppressed masses. Like the imperial bootheel is so grim over a million worlds that the cults can settle in anywhere and offer something 'other'. It's a nice theme to the models too, all retooled mining gear and stolen infrastructure. Even the way they have a folk hero character that's a play on an American-gunslinger-as-travelling-knight-errant, but is actually grim alien manipulation of human need to believe in a hero. That's a lovely, layered unit background that outlines the relationship between the nids, cult, imperial civilians and imperium itself in a single model. It's all a really cool way to let players tell the story of their force's own corrupted uprising on whatever grim situation they can imagine.
The way GW integrated Genestealers in with the Tyranids and the whole cycle of Purestrains and hybrids is filled to the brim with narrative fun. I 100% have an affinity for that army because the miniatures can be used in every single setting in 40k, from 9th edition to Space Hulk & Necromunda. They kind of fall in between so many different armies yet still have their own feel. The sweet irony is that once they actually accomplish their goals, the Tyranids will arrive and just eat them up along with everything else is super grimdark and I love it.
It's sort of a parasitic life cycle on a global and galactic scale simultaneously, while blending in some social commentary on the horrors of the Imperium too. It's really evocative.
I love the way the Mechanicus has been expanded too, as the codices, minis and novels look more closely into its weird culture.
I remember those days too. Chaos Genestealers, orc hybrids, it was the wild west for sure.
I still have the original hybrids from the Genestealer expansion to Space Hulk. When the new sculpts were first announced for the Deathwatch Overkill board game in 2016 I immediately preordered. Come to think of it, I think that Overkill game was super underrated.
I still have the original hybrids from the Genestealer expansion to Space Hulk. When the new sculpts were first announced for the Deathwatch Overkill board game in 2016 I immediately preordered. Come to think of it, I think that Overkill game was super underrated.
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Man, seeing that.
I know people want renegade imp guard and dark mechanicus, it's just a hard sell for me when we have chaos factions (world eaters and emperor's children) and regular imp guard need of refreshes (also some other xenos - but I think they're doing xenos at a good pace now with a big necron refresh and a decent sized ork refresh).
I was just wish there was a way to add all the various imp guard regiements into the game again without GW being in fear of a. horde armies and b. losing out to third party manufacturers.
I know people want renegade imp guard and dark mechanicus, it's just a hard sell for me when we have chaos factions (world eaters and emperor's children) and regular imp guard need of refreshes (also some other xenos - but I think they're doing xenos at a good pace now with a big necron refresh and a decent sized ork refresh).
I was just wish there was a way to add all the various imp guard regiements into the game again without GW being in fear of a. horde armies and b. losing out to third party manufacturers.
I was listening to a podcast (Darker Days Radio) yesterday that mentioned that the Genestealer Cult and Adeptus Mechanicus were made at the same time with the ability to kitbash each other together more easily. All hail the new flesh in every way.
I really do like the way the renegade guard that came with Blackstone Fortress. I can certainly see the appeal of them. However, I selfishly want new Emperor's Children and new Tyranids first.
I really do like the way the renegade guard that came with Blackstone Fortress. I can certainly see the appeal of them. However, I selfishly want new Emperor's Children and new Tyranids first.
After GW did the huge Nurgle refresh I figured the other 3 chaos gods would get equal treatments but instead they didn't get anything on the scale of Nurgle.
I also really love the renegade guard from Blackstone. The Cultists of the Abyss guys are great too (and cheap!). I have both, along with a smattering of Necromunda & various misc miniatures like the chaos ogryn & commissioner, so that I can make chaos cultist gangs for Necromunda. Honestly, I have enough to make a cult dedicated to each of the ruinous powers including themed chaos spawns. However, I want to start with a chaos undivided gang when the time comes.
I also really love the renegade guard from Blackstone. The Cultists of the Abyss guys are great too (and cheap!). I have both, along with a smattering of Necromunda & various misc miniatures like the chaos ogryn & commissioner, so that I can make chaos cultist gangs for Necromunda. Honestly, I have enough to make a cult dedicated to each of the ruinous powers including themed chaos spawns. However, I want to start with a chaos undivided gang when the time comes.
I would think the WH40K app subscription would be one thing. Maybe exclusive models?
Video battle reports would be great, but there's two things I think that will be a problem. First, GW has no personalities to do it. Unless they're hiring a proven batrep maker, I don't know how watchable they would be. Second, 40k rules are truthfully a bit pants and games can be very hit and miss. GW is really big on keeping up appearances so I can imagine it would be tough for them to accept showing that to the public. But we'll find out tomorrow.
Yeah, fair points. I could see them hiring professional digital content makers to do something for subscribers but we'll see. Honestly I like the idea of the animations and couldn't care less about rules/army list creators etc when I'd rather buy the books for a one-off price, but I can't see me paying a monthly sub unless it's insanely good value. Something GW isn't exactly renowned for :D
They gotta do something extra for sure. Unless this was some stubborn executive's pet project, but hopefully things aren't that bad.
They probably hired some guys imho. The timing of these departures was very suspicious to me. (I thought of Bones immediately) https://www.resetera.com/threads/wa...-there-is-only-war.614/page-179#post-63626463
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Oh, the warzone morlock guy was confirmed to be the face of warhammer tv from the comments section.
THere's a rumored exclusive miniature as well.
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