Warhammer 40,000 |OT| In the Grim Darkness of the 40K Era There Is Only War

[Coyote Starrk]

They are amazing novels, Cain and Jurgen are great.

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Yes they are. And I've already finished the book lol


I just find Cain to be just about the best protagonist that I could hope for coming out of this kind of setting. His innate cowardice combined with his undeniable skill is just hilarious. And then you throw in the characters like jurgen and amberly? It's too good. I found myself on more than one occasion actually laughing out loud.


He's also the first character in the series that I have found to be somewhat relatable. His entire Outlook on the emperor, the imperium, and the administratum is perfectly understandable and believable. It doesn't come off as being too forced like it has been with other characters. He doesn't have the same blind loyalty and blind faith in the Imperium and the emperor. He has doubts, but he still clearly cares and is willing to do what it takes to do what he thinks is right.

 

[Poodlestrike]

The best thing about the Cain books is the way that even as you see how Cain himself came to the conclusions he has, he's still clearly not giving himself enough credit. In the first book, there's this moment where he and Amberly dive through this gap Jurgen shot in the wall of a tunnel right before it collapses, and the way the narration describes that he must have lost his mind or something to be digging it out the way he was really sticks with me. This is a guy who cannot give himself the credit he deserves, even for clearly heroic impulses.

But just to remind you of what setting this is, he still immediately executes the infected Guardsmen at the end of the story. Cain's a good soul by the Imperium's standards, but he's still a part of it.

 

[Infi]

Yes they are. And I've already finished the book lol


I just find Cain to be just about the best protagonist that I could hope for coming out of this kind of setting. His innate cowardice combined with his undeniable skill is just hilarious. And then you throw in the characters like jurgen and amberly? It's too good. I found myself on more than one occasion actually laughing out loud.


He's also the first character in the series that I have found to be somewhat relatable. His entire Outlook on the emperor, the imperium, and the administratum is perfectly understandable and believable. It doesn't come off as being too forced like it has been with other characters. He doesn't have the same blind loyalty and blind faith in the Imperium and the emperor. He has doubts, but he still clearly cares and is willing to do what it takes to do what he thinks is right.

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While you're reading the Cain books you should also check out the short story "The Smallest Detail". It's told from Jurgens perspective whilst he gets supplies for Cain and doesn't feature Cain himself. It's a fun read to see how he thinks about things.

 

[Draconis]

Quick question since I have been out of the loop for a while due to pandemic insanity at work and being essential, etc.

The anniversary event for the Necron figure and the Age of Sigmar one. Is that set for the anniversary of an individual warhammer store? Or GW's Anniversary in general? I believe it's the store, but want to make sure.

I was hoping to get the Necron figure, just didn't know when to time it or if I needed to call my local store and find out.

 

[Matttimeo]

Quick question since I have been out of the loop for a while due to pandemic insanity at work and being essential, etc.

The anniversary event for the Necron figure and the Age of Sigmar one. Is that set for the anniversary of an individual warhammer store? Or GW's Anniversary in general? I believe it's the store, but want to make sure.

I was hoping to get the Necron figure, just didn't know when to time it or if I needed to call my local store and find out.

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You're correct, its a store anniversary figure. If you call your local store they will probably have the exact date of the anniversary week where they sell it. If I remember correctly mine is sometime early September.

 

[Draconis]

Thanks Mattimeo, I appreciate it.

 

[zon]

Yes they are. And I've already finished the book lol


I just find Cain to be just about the best protagonist that I could hope for coming out of this kind of setting. His innate cowardice combined with his undeniable skill is just hilarious. And then you throw in the characters like jurgen and amberly? It's too good. I found myself on more than one occasion actually laughing out loud.


He's also the first character in the series that I have found to be somewhat relatable. His entire Outlook on the emperor, the imperium, and the administratum is perfectly understandable and believable. It doesn't come off as being too forced like it has been with other characters. He doesn't have the same blind loyalty and blind faith in the Imperium and the emperor. He has doubts, but he still clearly cares and is willing to do what it takes to do what he thinks is right.

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One of the big issues with Space Marines is that they only exist in absolutes. It's not easy to make characters with any depth from that.

 

[Foofaraw]

One of the big issues with Space Marines is that they only exist in absolutes. It's not easy to make characters with any depth from that.

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Sounds like all Space Marines are Sith. Really makes ya think, dunnit.

 

[Poodlestrike]

One of the big issues with Space Marines is that they only exist in absolutes. It's not easy to make characters with any depth from that.

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Ehhh, there's conceptual room for variety amongst the Marines. Some chapters have hobbies outside of fighting, like the Blood Angels. Other times, the individual Marines have enough personality to make for some fun moments. I read this excerpt earlier where a pair of Dark Angels get in some trouble because they stopped on the way to a briefing to, no other way to put it, play with the Captain of the Ravenwing's jetbike. Goofy stuff.

The issue is more that the Marines are victims of sturgeon's law. 90% of everything is dreck, and most 40k books are about Marines, so there's a lot of terribly-written Space Marine stories, bits and pieces of which inevitably infect the rest of the canon.

 

[Bizazedo]

Someone made an adaptation of the Last Church which I'm totally here for.

 

[zon]

Sounds like all Space Marines are Sith. Really makes ya think, dunnit.

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The marines at least have the excuse that they were thoroughly brainwashed during their transformation/training to behave that way.

Ehhh, there's conceptual room for variety amongst the Marines. Some chapters have hobbies outside of fighting, like the Blood Angels. Other times, the individual Marines have enough personality to make for some fun moments. I read this excerpt earlier where a pair of Dark Angels get in some trouble because they stopped on the way to a briefing to, no other way to put it, play with the Captain of the Ravenwing's jetbike. Goofy stuff.

The issue is more that the Marines are victims of sturgeon's law. 90% of everything is dreck, and most 40k books are about Marines, so there's a lot of terribly-written Space Marine stories, bits and pieces of which inevitably infect the rest of the canon.

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We both know the Blood Angels only do that to fight the rage and the thirst though.

Space Wolves likes a drink, Iron Hands likes to chop off their limbs, White Scars likes jetbikes. Which is the problem, every chapter is one thing and all of the chapter is that thing. It's not a premise that helps authors come up with fresh ideas or interesting characters.

Do you have a link to the Dark Angels excerpt? It sounds like a fun read.

 

[Poodlestrike]

The marines at least have the excuse that they were thoroughly brainwashed during their transformation/training to behave that way.



We both know the Blood Angels only do that to fight the rage and the thirst though.

Space Wolves likes a drink, Iron Hands likes to chop off their limbs, White Scars likes jetbikes. Which is the problem, every chapter is one thing and all of the chapter is that thing. It's not a premise that helps authors come up with fresh ideas or interesting characters.

Do you have a link to the Dark Angels excerpt? It sounds like a fun read.

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As a matter of fact, I do.

And even though they only do that to stave off the Red Thirst, it's still a hobby; you could easily hang some character hooks off it. Same thing with the White Scars' bikes or the... well, maybe not the Iron Hands, their whole thing is excising as much personality as possible. But a chapter like the Salamanders that spends time with the regular people and makes their own gear, that has potential.

 

[Keasar]

Someone made an adaptation of the Last Church which I'm totally here for.

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That was good.

 

[Kharnete]

Someone made an adaptation of the Last Church which I'm totally here for.

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My favourite 40k (well, 30k :P) short story. The absolute peak of the HH series, and it's just two guys talking in a room long, long before the Great Crusade even starts.

 

[Coyote Starrk]

Okay so the deeper I get into these Cain novels the more I am seeing that he really is just a hero of the imperium. He may try to downplay it and weasel out of situations when he can, but when someone or something puts his back to the wall the dude is amazing.


Like I'm reading the second book right now and he goes toe to toe with this giant creature using nothing but a chain sword and kills it. And then later on the squad he is with runs into another one and it takes several of them with guns to take down one after he had just killed one on his own.


Because up until now I kind of thought that hey yeah he's pretty good at his job but maybe he is really just kind of stumbling through survival. But no. He is just a badass who just so happens to also be a bit of a coward.

 

[Infi]

Okay so the deeper I get into these Cain novels the more I am seeing that he really is just a hero of the imperium. He may try to downplay it and weasel out of situations when he can, but when someone or something puts his back to the wall the dude is amazing.


Like I'm reading the second book right now and he goes toe to toe with this giant creature using nothing but a chain sword and kills it. And then later on the squad he is with runs into another one and it takes several of them with guns to take down one after he had just killed one on his own.


Because up until now I kind of thought that hey yeah he's pretty good at his job but maybe he is really just kind of stumbling through survival. But no. He is just a badass who just so happens to also be a bit of a coward.

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When someone first recommended the Cain series to me I expected a bumbling coward but he's actually a great commissar. He cares about the group he's assigned to, he inspires everyone, he's a good tactician and is amazing with his chainsword. I don't even think he's a coward, he just doesn't want to be on the front lines which makes sense when you consider the foes the imperium has to face. When he's faced with danger he still get's on with the job even when he's scared shitless. I think his problem is that he bought into the idea of the commissar that are supposed to be these fearless fanatics almost that have no fear and are eager to to go to battle.

 

[Draconis]

Everyone is hitting on really good points as to why I like the Commisar Cain series so much.

Key among them for me is just how grounded, and human he is and portrays the world around him. No fanaticism, no hyperbolic for the emperor drivel.

Just well written, sane, how the hell do I deal with this problem or set of problems realism and a desire to just live his life and keep his troops alive and high for their morale. Mostly out of a sense of self preservation, since we all know how many " stray " shots happen to find a Commisar on uneven footing when the fighting starts, if they have done the usual commisariat teachings.

To paraphrase it, " It's much better to have someone willing to take a bullet for you, instead of looking to put a few IN you. "

Moreover though, he is deep down a bit of a coward, at least in his view. But in truth he is also a good soul, and it shows in how he treats his soldiers.

Really do love the series as a whole. Literally some of the best written 40k novels and stories out there.

 

[zon]

As a matter of fact, I do.

And even though they only do that to stave off the Red Thirst, it's still a hobby; you could easily hang some character hooks off it. Same thing with the White Scars' bikes or the... well, maybe not the Iron Hands, their whole thing is excising as much personality as possible. But a chapter like the Salamanders that spends time with the regular people and makes their own gear, that has potential.

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Thanks, it was funny.

 

[TheYanger]

Ok, I bought an Indomitus box even if it's not really meant for newbies, I've never played 40k, I have painted one Warhammer model like 25 years ago, was some metal goblin dude, I need to buy some primer and plastic glue but otherwise, I think I'm ready? Gonna dole it out to myself slowly as a reward for some work I need to get done. I couldn't resist building one of the bike guys immediately just for the joy of it, cause I love assembling shit.

 

[Drax]

Ok, I bought an Indomitus box even if it's not really meant for newbies, I've never played 40k, I have painted one Warhammer model like 25 years ago, was some metal goblin dude, I need to buy some primer and plastic glue but otherwise, I think I'm ready? Gonna dole it out to myself slowly as a reward for some work I need to get done. I couldn't resist building one of the bike guys immediately just for the joy of it, cause I love assembling shit.

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It's actually a great value set for newbies.

It's basically

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Warhammer-40000-Recruit-EN-2020

+

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Warhammer-40000-Elite-Edition-EN-2020

+

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Space-Marines-Honoured-Of-The-Chapter-2021

+

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Necrons-Royal-Court-2021

For a much more reasonable price + a true rulebook.

So the figures are push fit but most people clip the knobs and use glue anyway because 1. they're more stable 2. they're some gaps that occur by using push fit.

One thing I would invest is a good hobby knife (and a mold line remover if you wish) and some needle files. The figures will have some mold lines that you want to remove (you can check the plethora of youtube videos about that). A lot of miniatures are good at hiding the mold lines, but it can be a pain to get rid of them while fully assembled.

edit (forgot about the extra squads + lieutenant/royal warden from recruit edition. Comparing indomitus to trying to get the stuff separately now is kinda nuts).

 

[TheYanger]

It's actually a great value set for newbies.

It's basically

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Warhammer-40000-Elite-Edition-EN-2020

+

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Space-Marines-Honoured-Of-The-Chapter-2021

+

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Necrons-Royal-Court-2021

For a much more reasonable price + a true rulebook.

So the figures are push fit but most people clip the knobs and use glue anyway because 1. they're more stable 2. they're some gaps that occur by using push fit.

One thing I would invest is a good hobby knife (and a mold line remover if you wish) and some needle files. The figures will have some mold lines that you want to remove (you can check the plethora of youtube videos about that). A lot of miniatures are good at hiding the mold lines, but it can be a pain to get rid of them while fully assembled.

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Oh yeah, I did about as much research as I could before impulse buying, I have the hobby clippers and whatnot, do need to get a hobby/xacto knife still, but wasn't planning on really heavily assembling anything. I was glancing at the bike the entire time determining which parts to put on and not (the legs I didn't want to attach for instance) and cleaned the mold lines up lightly with a file, but yeah I need the knife.

 

[Draconis]

Oh yeah, I did about as much research as I could before impulse buying, I have the hobby clippers and whatnot, do need to get a hobby/xacto knife still, but wasn't planning on really heavily assembling anything. I was glancing at the bike the entire time determining which parts to put on and not (the legs I didn't want to attach for instance) and cleaned the mold lines up lightly with a file, but yeah I need the knife.

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Congrats! And welcome to one of the most relaxing and peaceful aspects of the hobby. I have a ton of wonderful memories of just assembling and painting minis to music and a cool breeze coming in from the night through an open window.


Does wonders for stress relief.

 

[Coyote Starrk]

Just finished the Traitor's Hand and Cain and Jurgen are officially my favorite power couple in 40k. They have supplanted Valerian and Aleya. The dynamic between them is just amazing. They are the perfect duo.


Like peanut butter and jelly. Cheese and crackers. Fulgrim and a mirror.

 

[Infi]

Just finished the Traitor's Hand and Cain and Jurgen are officially my favorite power couple in 40k. They have supplanted Valerian and Aleya. The dynamic between them is just amazing. They are the perfect duo.


Like peanut butter and jelly. Cheese and crackers. Fulgrim and a mirror.

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Totally agree. I love how Jurgen will just do what ever Cain tells him with no hesitation or questioning no matter what he's asked to do. He just assumes Cain knows what he's doing and goes with it.

Spoiler: Traitor's hand spoiler

I like how things turned out in the Traitor's Hand. Cain's Commissar rival tries to get him arrested but ends up owing Cain for saving his life and the army he's assigned to ends up starting a sect worshiping Cain as an imperial saint.

 

[i like big butts]

The Outrider bike kit is some real garbage that fits together incredibly poorly. It's going to be incredibly difficult to have it looking nice without Tamiya Extra Thin Cement and clamps or some form of filler, I've seen enough people put together Outriders with cm wide gaps to tell me that the kit is flawed.

My suggestion with Games Workshop snap fit models to rub very fine grit sandpaper around the knobs. As someone who has built an excessive number of poorly designed Games Workshop snap fit kits between 9 Outriders and several Space Marine Heroes, the main issue isn't that they're too long but rather the tolerances just aren't good enough for the knob to fit into the appropriate hole the entire length. It often just gets too tight that you're bending and stressing the hole. This is even worse with the Outriders because the knobs are extremely thin, bend easily and the amount of knob that actually goes into the hole is surprisingly little so it's easy to trim away too much.

If you sandpaper the knob to a smaller diameter, everything fits loose enough and it serves as a very good guide to position parts and glue. Or not glue and allow you to paint in sub-assemblies.

 

[Matttimeo]

It's not the most elegant solution but I tend to just go caveman on pushfit models and cut off their poles off completely and then glue them as if they are regular kits. Never really been comfortable with the level of force you need to apply to them to get them to push together.

 

[i like big butts]

Yeah. Games Workshop push fit model ain't right.

In the context of the Outriders, from memory I think I figured out that you have to keep the motorcycle fairing parts pushfit or else it is difficult to align them with each other and the bike frame. The fairings don't only have to align and meet at the very top of the model but also have to meet at the parts just below the bolt rifles. I believe the fairings are basically "floating" except for the female part of the right side fairing friction fitting into the main frame of the bike.

Normally you can ignore gaps in most modern Games Workshop kits but when the circled parts are misaligned, they are really obvious. The pressure required to push fit parts together often warps thin parts that they can misalign so that's what some beginners building these kits get. I think the only solution is to sandpaper the knobs to a smaller diameter to give you a "loose" fit that you can adjust to fit properly.

Its just an awful kit to assemble, it reminds me of old Games Workshop pewter kits (like the old Ghazghkull I still have) that has astronomically huge gaps that the only way to assemble would require pinning, shaving and/or milliput.

 

[Kharnete]

The old bike model was already a mess to mount and make it fit correctly.

 

[UnluckyKate]

Its very disapointing because I really dig the look of these outriders.

I was wondering if the different base of outriders compared to veteran bikers would be a problem to buy outriders to play them as veteran bikers ? I fancy making a custom deathwatch squad of mean bikers

 

[Commedieu]

 

[Drax]

So went to my local warhammer store to pick up some of the anniversay units (you can preorder them during the anniv and they will deliver to the store later), however, I didn't realize the anniv was runnig for a like a week and ha half .

Ended up picking up cursed city.

Tone thing that I def noticed is how out of scale Age of Sigmar is to 40k now, normal humans are the size of primaris marines and it's kinda weird.

 

[Keasar]

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So how many points on the table is that?

 

[zon]

So how many points on the table is that?

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A pound!

 

[Bombless]

Boy oh boy, I guess there's going to be a new Sisters codex soon then?

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[Drax]

Boy oh boy, I guess there's going to be a new Sisters codex soon then?

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That top model is bad ass.

 

[Redcrayon]

Fair play to the miniature designer that realised that if you turn the fleur-de-lys on it's side,trace around the edge of it's points and use the central bar as a pole, it makes a cool halberd.

 

[Naarmight]

I really don't like it, it's the shield, I think it is too small. Though at this point the Sisters really are becoming mini marines

 

[Deleted member 9241]

I really don't like it, it's the shield, I think it is too small. Though at this point the Sisters really are becoming mini marines

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Things like this always makes me remember Squats. The entire line was shuttered because at the time GW couldn't think of enough ways to differentiate them from IG. Now we have Sisters, Ad Mech, Genestealer Cults, and entire factions within various Space Marine and Chaos armies. Not to mention Eldar/Dark Eldar/Harlequins! There is plenty of opportunity and room to make Squats relevant. Bring back the Squats!

 

[Drax]

I mean at their heart, sisters of battle were always tactical, assault and devastator squads. I don't mind them broadening their options especially when these look more like custodes then traditional marines.

(I do think the one reason primaris marines exists is to break up how similar sisters of battle/chaos/ and normal space Marines were.

 

[Redcrayon]

I don't really think marine forces where some of them now have a choice of 100+ units, with levels of redundancy in even just assault units that almost outnumber entire factions, are in a position to claim that the Sororitas are stealing their thunder :D

The ornate weapons suit them in terms of character of the unit, both in terms of the Sororitas iconography and presumably taking inspiration from the Swiss Guard as a sort of elite church honour guard unit with halberds.

Swiss Guard - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It's elegant in that it feels more balanced between offence and defence as a bodyguard unit in contrast to the penitent engines, Repentia and arco-flagellants etc. It's also more distinctive than just being an option to give Celestians power swords and shields.

Also it's giving sisters players an option to field balanced detachments that don't rely on the penitent units, which is quite cool in terms of scenarios, in the same way that you might sometimes want to field Eldar without Guardian units or marines as a scouts-only, or terminators-only force.

Finally, having bolter-equipped Celestians where the only difference between them and the line troopers is a tiny fleur-de-lys on the helmet felt a bit of a cop-out with the main sisters infantry kit. I wonder if we'll see people give these heads and backpack bits to bolter infantry to make the line Celestians stand out a bit more? That's what I'm thinking of, just using standard heads and backpacks on the halberd infantry as they are distinctive enough with the polearms and shields, and using the bits to upgrade a cool bolter squad too.

 

[Bombless]

I really don't like it, it's the shield, I think it is too small. Though at this point the Sisters really are becoming mini marines

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The shield is small probably because it has to be easy enough to manipulate to shoot with it. There's a bolt pistol muzzle on the left side of the shield in that image.

And yeah, it's totally a Swiss Guard reference, haha.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Goddddd what nice models.

And yeah, Imperium has so much redundancy on an inter- and intra- faction basis that it's clearly something they've accepted is just going to have to happen if they want them all to be combat viable.

 

[i like big butts]

That isn't even really a small shield.

In all honesty, marine shields for the most part are the shields that make little sense in a melee perspective. They're just too big and bulky, though obviously rule of cool trumps everything in 40k.

 

[Repgnar]

Been surfing eBay a lot recently. What started off as picking up a strong start to a Catachan metal army has me now having metal Catachans, Cadians, and Praetorians. Also managed to piece together a Griffon as well. Really hoping they announce another Made To Order for Mordian/Tallarn since the last one was Valhallan in 2020 I think.

 

[Digital Dinosaur]

For filling gaps on models, I've started trying a hobby putty called Perfect Plastic Putty. Once it is dry it sands more smoothly than any other putty I've found, really helps the fills look seamless.

And nope, I do not like probably half of GW's push-fit models. I end up cutting the pins off and gluing them together normally to make stuff fit right.

 

[Saften]

Finally settled on my Admech colour scheme... I think. This guy was my third Admech painted. The two gunners inside the dunerider were guinea pigs for the Omnissiah. Their Forge World puts a premium on high performance stonewashed denim. Some of the model looks a bit gloopy, which is what I get for trying to prime in cold weather. I still need to finish the base, but waiting for that magic 15 degrees celsius for priming.

 

[LTWheels]

Games Workshop have quite a few Jon openings at the moment - even a roll on their in-house legal team. If I was a commercial lawyer I would be half temped to apply - practice a different area of law.

 

[Bombless]

Finally settled on my Admech colour scheme... I think. This guy was my third Admech painted. The two gunners inside the dunerider were guinea pigs for the Omnissiah. Their Forge World puts a premium on high performance stonewashed denim. Some of the model looks a bit gloopy, which is what I get for trying to prime in cold weather. I still need to finish the base, but waiting for that magic 15 degrees celsius for priming.

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Hah, good one! Great idea.

 

[Gareth]

Meet the True Power Behind the Warmaster's Throne - Warhammer Community (warhammer-community.com)

Maloghurst the Twisted:

 

[Serule]

New 40K eBook bundle up on Humble Bundle.
Looks like this one is pretty good, 26 books and I only have three of them (in eBook form). Interesting some of the books are the second book in their various series.

Tier 1 (6 books, $1):
Cadian Blood - Aaron Dembski-Bowden
Cadian Honor - Justin D Hill
Ciaphus Cain: Coose Your Enemies - Sandy Mitchell
Double Eagle - Dan Abnett
Fifteen Hours - Mitchel Scanlon
Gunheads - Steve Parker

Tier 2 (8 books, $10)
Black Legion - Aaron Dembski-Bowden
Blood Reaver - Aaron Dembski-Bowden
Dark Apostle - Anthony Reynolds
Fabius Bile: Clonelord - Josh Reynolds
Lords and Tyrants - Anthology
Lucius, The Faultless Blade - Ian St. Martin
Shroud of Night - Andy Clark
The Lords of Silence - Chris Wraight

Tier 3 (12 books, $18)
Ashes of Prospero - Gav Thorpe
Battle of the Fang - Chris Wraight
The Beast Arises vol 1 (omnibus) - various
Blood of Iax - Robbie MacNiven
Brothers of the Snake - Dan Abnett
Dawn of Fire: Avenging Son - Guy Haley
The Great Devourer (omnibus) - various
Knights of Macragge - Nick Kyme
Nexus + Other Stories - Anthology
Path of the Dark Eldar (omnibus) - Andy Chambers
Rise of the Ynnari - Wild Rider - Gav Thorpe
War of Secrets - Phil Kelly