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Poodlestrike

Smooth vs. Crunchy
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
13,489
How are Custodes on the tabletop? Been looking to start a small elite force that I can work on between projects and these guys have caught my eye lately.
Not really meta but pretty good. They're flexible and very low model count, so not as much painting. Gorgeous minis. They do have some trouble holding multiple objectives because of that low model count, which is the name of the game right now, but you could do a lot worse.

Cries in T'au
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
52,880
Just on this one, the Emperor and Malcador have gamed out the Heresy many times. (see short story, 'the board is set'). They seem sure that half the primarchs will turn to chaos, they just don't know which ones, although both suspect various ones will stay or go. Malcador suspects the Lion may turn due to his independence (as his piece in their game is the Double-Edged Sword), but the Emperor is absolutely sure he won't due to his loyalty (and is proven correct). Ultimately the Emperor knew the heresy was coming following his earlier victory over the chaos powers to steal some of their warp-strength for his gene-project, he just didn't know exactly when or in what form it would take.

——-
My head-canon, and take this with a pinch of salt, is that the Emperor is a dictator and focused on top-down power and command due to the Primarchs having an innate, supernatural level of influence on their troops. The warrior lodges within the legions, however, was heresy spreading like wildfire, sideways and up and down through the legions regardless of rank and power structure. How each Primarch was introduced to it, allowed or denied it (again, as a control freak the Lion was not a fan) varies, and that's perhaps something neither the Emperor or Malcador foresaw as they focused on gods and monsters.
Okay so maybe "moron" was too strong of a word lol I just couldn't find any other way to properly explain how I felt about him missing so much.




Also I just realized something while I was listening to another video today. Do we know how the Primarch that woke up (Roboute I think?) feels about the imperium? The guy stood next to his "Father" and listened to him repeatedly declare any kind of religion surrounding him as heresy. And isn't he also the Primarch of the legion that the Emperor used put down the world's that the Word bearers had corrupted?


I can't imagine he is okay with everything like this.
 

Poodlestrike

Smooth vs. Crunchy
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
13,489
Okay so maybe "moron" was too strong of a word lol I just couldn't find any other way to properly explain how I felt about him missing so much.




Also I just realized something while I was listening to another video today. Do we know how the Primarch that woke up (Roboute I think?) feels about the imperium? The guy stood next to his "Father" and listened to him repeatedly declare any kind of religion surrounding him as heresy. And isn't he also the Primarch of the legion that the Emperor used put down the world's that the Word bearers had corrupted?


I can't imagine he is okay with everything like this.
He's pretty profoundly unhappy about it.

Again, none of the Primarchs are what you'd call "good people," but Roboute does prize efficiency, and did believe in the Imperial Truth, so the current state of the Imperium is upsetting to him.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
52,880
He's pretty profoundly unhappy about it.

Again, none of the Primarchs are what you'd call "good people," but Roboute does prize efficiency, and did believe in the Imperial Truth, so the current state of the Imperium is upsetting to him.
Is there anything he can do about it? Or has the Imperium passed the point of no return when it comes to the Imperial Cult?


Also what is his role now? The emperor is a god to humanity and Roboute is his "son". Does that make him a demi-god or something in their eyes?
 

Bizazedo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,604
Is there anything he can do about it? Or has the Imperium passed the point of no return when it comes to the Imperial Cult?

Also what is his role now? The emperor is a god to humanity and Roboute is his "son". Does that make him a demi-god or something in their eyes?
He actually spoke with the Emperor, but it didn't go well.

He's Lord Commander of the Imperium. He's basically the actual leader now....but that doesn't mean all the institutions that are already in place are happy with him. He's decided to focus on trying to save what he can and that's why he launched the Indomitus Crusade, the biggest Imperial military action since....maybe the Heresy or War of the Beast?

Isn't Sanguinius good good and not just 40k good?
Ehhhhh.

Vulkan is probably the "best" of the Primarchs.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
52,880
He actually spoke with the Emperor, but it didn't go well.

He's Lord Commander of the Imperium. He's basically the actual leader now....but that doesn't mean all the institutions that are already in place are happy with him. He's decided to focus on trying to save what he can and that's why he launched the Indomitus Crusade, the biggest Imperial military action since....maybe the Heresy or War of the Beast?


Ehhhhh.

Vulkan is probably the "best" of the Primarchs.
I'm gonna have to read up on that. I'm trying not to skip around and go in order with this videos and entries. I'm afraid if I jump around I'll be even more confused lol


Also I saw your longer post from earlier. I'm not ignoring it. I'm just waiting until I have a keyboard in front of me. I just hate typing long posts from my phone.
 

Poodlestrike

Smooth vs. Crunchy
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
13,489
Is there anything he can do about it? Or has the Imperium passed the point of no return when it comes to the Imperial Cult?


Also what is his role now? The emperor is a god to humanity and Roboute is his "son". Does that make him a demi-god or something in their eyes?
Not really. That's one of the big things about the post-Great Rift stories following Guilliman. He is viewed as a demigod by most people - those who either have faith in him on principle or meet him in person tend to outright worship him. But even that doesn't give him the power to fix all the problems in the Imperium, including the hold the Ecclesiarchy has over most citizens. He actually has a procession of Ecclesiarchal liaisons who keep going crazy. At this point, he's basically accepted that he can't force people to not believe he's a god.

This is sort of his whole problem. Yes, he's the Lord Regent. Yes, he's a demigod. But that doesn't mean he can just wave his hands and have people do what he wants them to. He still has to manage the various factions that make up the rickety leaking ship that is the Imperium. And that means accepting a lot of stuff that absolutely galls him.
Isn't Sanguinius good good and not just 40k good?
Still a mass-murdering warlord, so no. Every Primarch had no choice but to, as part of the Great Crusade, roll over dozens if not hundreds of worlds that refused to join the fold. That requires a ton of killing.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
52,880
Not really. That's one of the big things about the post-Great Rift stories following Guilliman. He is viewed as a demigod by most people - those who either have faith in him on principle or meet him in person tend to outright worship him. But even that doesn't give him the power to fix all the problems in the Imperium, including the hold the Ecclesiarchy has over most citizens. He actually has a procession of Ecclesiarchal liaisons who keep going crazy. At this point, he's basically accepted that he can't force people to not believe he's a god.

This is sort of his whole problem. Yes, he's the Lord Regent. Yes, he's a demigod. But that doesn't mean he can just wave his hands and have people do what he wants them to. He still has to manage the various factions that make up the rickety leaking ship that is the Imperium. And that means accepting a lot of stuff that absolutely galls him.

Kind of looking forward to reading about his resurrection now tbh. It sounds super interesting and slightly humorous. Because I'm imaging Roboute who from his wiki entry seems like the most level headed Primarch of all them just being followed around by worshippers and him just getting frustrated.


Reminds me of the "We don't do that here..." vibe from the MCU lol

Still a mass-murdering warlord, so no. Every Primarch had no choice but to, as part of the Great Crusade, roll over dozens if not hundreds of worlds that refused to join the fold. That requires a ton of killing.

Yeah I can't help but think after reading all about some of the Primarchs that the galaxy would have been better off if the Emperor had just left them alone. In most cases they took whatever hellhole they had been dumped on and turned it into something better if not outright good like what Roboute did. The Emperor could have made more "sons" or something. Instead he ripped them from their homeworlds and then unleashed all 20 of them on the galaxy. Which for the most part seems like it would have been fine, but holy crap some of them were just accidents waiting to happen. Fulgrim and Mortarion especially and was completely blind to it. He basically handed the Ruinous Powers their most powerful weapons.


I'm almost done reading about all the Primarchs though. I've read about 13 I think. So only 7 to go. Sanguinius is my favorite so far both in story and design. The whole Angel thing is just cool. Russ has to be my second favorite though. The whole wolf thing is almost as cool as the angel thing.
 
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Poodlestrike

Smooth vs. Crunchy
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
13,489
Kind of looking forward to reading about his resurrection now tbh. It sounds super interesting and slightly humorous. Because I'm imaging Roboute who from his wiki entry seems like the most level headed Primarch of all them just being followed around by worshippers and him just getting frustrated.


Reminds me of the "We don't do that here..." vibe from the MCU lol



Yeah I can't help but think after reading all about some of the Primarchs that the galaxy would have been better off if the Emperor had just left them alone. In most cases they took whatever hellhole they had been dumped on and turned it into something better if not outright good like what Roboute did. The Emperor could have made more "sons" or something. Instead he ripped them from their homeworlds and then unleashed all 20 of them on the galaxy. Which for the most part seems like it would have been fine, but holy crap some of them were just accidents waiting to happen. Fulgrim and Mortarion especially and was completely blind to it. He basically handed the Ruinous Powers their most powerful weapons.


I'm almost done reading about all the Primarchs though. I've read about 13 I think. So only 7 to go. Sanguinius is my favorite so far both in story and design. The whole Angel thing is just cool. Russ has to be my second favorite though. The whole wolf thing is almost as cool as the angel thing.
Funny, Morty was actually one of the less-likely cases. Most of the others fell, he got pushed. Trapped in the warp, his Marines dying around him until he swore himself to Nurgle just to make it stop. Fulgrim was also pretty forcibly corrupted by the Laer blade. Most time-bomby I would say were Angron, due to the Butcher's Nails, Lorgar, due to him coming from a culture that worshipped Chaos and him trying to worship Empy, and Curze, because Curze was batshit insane from the moment he clawed his way to his planet's surface. The rest could've probably gone either way.

Personally, my fave's Vulcan, but it's gotta be undestood that it's all relative. He's a humanitarian by Primarch standards, but that just means he feels bad about causing all those innocent deaths. The Khan is similarly bro-tier, as Primarchs go.

And honestly, leaving the Primarchs laying around probably wouldn't have worked out better, long-term. Roboute already had a stellar empire of 500 worlds. Dorn apparently hails from another star-empire, though we know basically nothing about it. Most of the others would've gotten out there eventually, and then you've got 21 (can't forget Omegon) interstellar warlords, but now they're all fighting each other rather than moving in the same direction. The mistake was making them to begin with, imo.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
52,880
Funny, Morty was actually one of the less-likely cases. Most of the others fell, he got pushed. Trapped in the warp, his Marines dying around him until he swore himself to Nurgle just to make it stop. Fulgrim was also pretty forcibly corrupted by the Laer blade. Most time-bomby I would say were Angron, due to the Butcher's Nails, Lorgar, due to him coming from a culture that worshipped Chaos and him trying to worship Empy, and Curze, because Curze was batshit insane from the moment he clawed his way to his planet's surface. The rest could've probably gone either way.

Personally, my fave's Vulcan, but it's gotta be undestood that it's all relative. He's a humanitarian by Primarch standards, but that just means he feels bad about causing all those innocent deaths. The Khan is similarly bro-tier, as Primarchs go.

And honestly, leaving the Primarchs laying around probably wouldn't have worked out better, long-term. Roboute already had a stellar empire of 500 worlds. Dorn apparently hails from another star-empire, though we know basically nothing about it. Most of the others would've gotten out there eventually, and then you've got 21 (can't forget Omegon) interstellar warlords, but now they're all fighting each other rather than moving in the same direction. The mistake was making them to begin with, imo.
Wait what? I thought there was only 20 Primarchs? Who the heck is Omegon?
 
I'm almost done reading about all the Primarchs though. I've read about 13 I think. So only 7 to go. Sanguinius is my favorite so far both in story and design. The whole Angel thing is just cool. Russ has to be my second favorite though. The whole wolf thing is almost as cool as the angel thing
There are no wolves in Fenris...

Team Lion and Dorn here.
 

Poodlestrike

Smooth vs. Crunchy
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
13,489
Wait I thought his NAME was Alpharius Omegon. So that's not a first and last name that's two different people? The hell?


Yeah I still haven't read about him.
Nope! Alpharius served as the face and assumed his brother's name as a last name.

Probably.

Look, the whole legion is secrecy-obsessed. We don't even know if Alpharius is alive or dead, though he's probably dead. Alpha Legionnaires have habit of getting surgically altered an claiming to be him. It's weird.

Anyway, Alpharius Omegon is a dumb name, but can I draw your attention to Primarch Ferrus Manus of the Iron Hands? Who had iron hands?
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
52,880
Nope! Alpharius served as the face and assumed his brother's name as a last name.

Probably.

Look, the whole legion is secrecy-obsessed. We don't even know if Alpharius is alive or dead, though he's probably dead. Alpha Legionnaires have habit of getting surgically altered an claiming to be him. It's weird.

Anyway, Alpharius Omegon is a dumb name, but can I draw your attention to Primarch Ferrus Manus of the Iron Hands? Who had iron hands?
Oh yeah he was one of the earlier ones I read about. Dude that molded molten steel with his hands and carried a giant hammer the size of a full grown man. That guy was awesome.


On a related note....fuck Fulgrim.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
Also I just realized something while I was listening to another video today. Do we know how the Primarch that woke up (Roboute I think?) feels about the imperium? The guy stood next to his "Father" and listened to him repeatedly declare any kind of religion surrounding him as heresy. And isn't he also the Primarch of the legion that the Emperor used put down the world's that the Word bearers had corrupted?


I can't imagine he is okay with everything like this.
Answers to this can be found in Dark Imperium and Plague War by Guy Haley, which are set a century after the start of the Indomitus Crusade and have a lot of commentary on the state of the Imperium, and particularly it's state as a death cult worshipping the Emperor as a god and thus how they see him. Suffice to say, he's not a fan of the Ministorum, and even a century after his return, the static resistance of large swathes of the Imperium to change and the dogma and mindset behind it bother him greatly. Thing is, he's still got a lot on his plate, reorganising the Imperium is an impossible task, it's rotten to the core through every aspect of it, and the administratum and ministorum run through ever facet of Imperial life, top to bottom. But he is the great administrator, and while it's like pushing a boulder up a hill, part of his own skill set is compromise and the realisation that, by Dark Imperium, he's had to make massive compromises he despises already due to the literal hundreds of thousands of other issues that require his attention, including the half a million worlds lost in Imperium Nihilus.

Try The Regents Shadow, set immediately before and then after Guilliman departs Terra with his crusade fleets, and Avenging Son, set at the same time, for more commentary on his attempts to make changes to allow the Imperium to survive. But yes, he is 'not ok' with it. The Imperium was an awful dictatorship even in it's golden age under the Emperor, and now it's a twisted parody even of that.
 
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Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
Nope! Alpharius served as the face and assumed his brother's name as a last name.

Probably.

Look, the whole legion is secrecy-obsessed. We don't even know if Alpharius is alive or dead, though he's probably dead. Alpha Legionnaires have habit of getting surgically altered an claiming to be him. It's weird.

Anyway, Alpharius Omegon is a dumb name, but can I draw your attention to Primarch Ferrus Manus of the Iron Hands? Who had iron hands?
Let's not forget Corvus Corax, who is conveniently named Raven Raven, before being assigned as Primarch of the Raven Guard :D
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
The Emperor: "Hmm, they named you Sanguinius, here's the Blood Angels legion, that works. Mortarion you say? Here's the Death Guard."

Malcador: "My Lord, is it wise to decide eternal galactic strategy based on the weird names and associations these planets gave your creations?"

Emperor: "I have a plan. Who is next, ah, Angron, I bet he's really angry..."

Malcador: "I'm not surprised after you..."

Emperor: "Shut Up Malcador. Let's give him some angry boys! How about the World Eaters, they love getting angry!"

Malcador: "That's weak, even for you."

Emperor: "lol, let me tell you about this vision I had..."
 

Serule

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,765
The Emperor: "Hmm, they named you Sanguinius, here's the Blood Angels legion, that works. Mortarion you say? Here's the Death Guard."

Malcador: "My Lord, is it wise to decide eternal galactic strategy based on the weird names and associations these planets gave your creations?"

Emperor: "I have a plan. Who is next, ah, Angron, I bet he's really angry..."

Malcador: "I'm not surprised after you..."

Emperor: "Shut Up Malcador. Let's give him some angry boys! How about the World Eaters, they love getting angry!"

Malcador: "That's weak, even for you."

Emperor: "lol, let me tell you about this vision I had..."

I know you are joking, and there is quite a bit of goofiness with the names, but to be fair they have smoothed over some of it:
None of the legions started with names; the names they have now were originally nicknames they earned from their behavior. And their behavior is influenced by the genes they got from their primarch.
Plus some of the legions were renamed when reunited with their primarch (Death Guard were Dusk Raiders, World Eaters were War Hounds)
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
I know you are joking, and there is quite a bit of goofiness with the names, but to be fair they have smoothed over some of it:
None of the legions started with names; the names they have now were originally nicknames they earned from their behavior. And their behavior is influenced by the genes they got from their primarch.
Plus some of the legions were renamed when reunited with their primarch (Death Guard were Dusk Raiders, World Eaters were War Hounds)
For sure. I've really enjoyed seeing them round it all out over the years since the primarchs were named, it's come a long way in the depth of detail applied to the origins of the legions. The Dark Angels are my favourites- they weren't even known as 'the first legion' originally, let alone the Dark Angels, as they were the only legion. They were only known as the Six Wings or the Emperor's Angels of Death, giving rise to it's use as a term for all Astartes as shock troops. Even then, compared to the info available when I was a kid and everything was barely hinted at in odd paragraphs here and there, there's long lore videos and entire books treating 30k like a documentary these days, whereas it was always just the mythological origins of the present setting when I was getting into it in the late 80s.

Forge World's Horus Heresy campaign books are great for this stuff but they are so expensive. I love reading the novels and pick them up cheap whenever I can, but those are well outside my budget considering I don't even play 30k!
 
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Poodlestrike

Smooth vs. Crunchy
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
13,489
Let's not forget Corvus Corax, who is conveniently named Raven Raven, before being assigned as Primarch of the Raven Guard :D
Corvus Corax is the actual scientific name for the Raven, so it's really just one Raven.

...

THAT'S SO RAVEN

Okay, had to get that out.

Or Vulkan He'Stan. A character in a chapter with...you can guess what shade of skin.

He is, amusingly, not tan. Salamanders are black like the void of space, not like regular humans.
 
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LTWheels

Member
Nov 8, 2017
766
Hounds of Morkai looks the the Rivers kit with a couple of different heads and space wolves upgrade accessories.
 

Drax

Oregon tag
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,076
It'll be interesting to see the prices on the 'start collecting' sets, they are usually fairly good value (for GW).

They definitely look pricier then the old start collecting (deathwatch one is basically the primaris space wolves one with the lieutenants switched out + apothecary) but i think they will be better value then some of the old kits. Aggressor nerf kinda sucks for the Deathwatch one as otherwise that kit would be really strong for a start collecting.
 
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Of the primarchs, Guilliman does strike me as the most intellectual and self-aware beyond the typical mental and cultural boundaries of the post-apocalyptic techno-barbarians most humans were reduced to after the fall of humanity in the dark age of technology.

Even "good" humans in the Imperium see existence in fundamentally grim terms. They are what we, 21st century reader, would call fascistic and authoritarian. Humanity's natural state for them is a mob to be ruled over with an iron fist by a strong man who brings order and "prosperity". The idea of individual human life having intrinsic value for its own sake was eroded. Better social contracts had been lost. The Emperor and his brutal, join-us-or-die crusade to create the Imperium was a major step up for most humans in most places. (And a pity for the few remaining human enclaves that had remained truly civilized and intellectually elevated, only to be murdered by the Emperor for refusing to kneel and become slaves to the Imperium.)

The primarchs have to be viewed in this context of what humanity had been reduced to by 30k. Vulkan somehow valued human life far more than the typical person of his era (well, after a lot of burning and smashing...). Guilliman though seems written as having figured out that the entire outlook of humanity in his age is lacking, and could and should be something more.

So of course he is the one who gets to deal with m41 Imperium and the ecclesiarchy in person.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
Surely there's going to be a new one for Death Guard, they've got a new codex coming out and they're lacking in the Starter Box department.
I think this is likely the treatment going forward. A new unit of sorts, a set of dice, a combat patrol box. DG will have that character they showed off in the previews.
 

Kwigo

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
8,025
They seem to change suppliers every four years or so. Quality varies.

The artificer brushes are overpriced. Winsor & Newton is better and cheaper.

GW dry brushes have been good to me. The current small and medium layer brushes have been great, and lasted with care.
I can't use my medium layer brush for more than 2 minutes before the bristles start going in all directions. I clean my brushes with brush soap after every painting session...

I've heard some good stuff about both Winsor & Newton and Army Painter brushes, I'll try one of those once I got some money for the hobby.
 

Nazo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,830
Is it just me or are citadel brushes complete shit ?

For the most part yeah. Their dry brushes and shade brushes are really good for what they're for. The only other brush I'd recommend is the large base brush, it's weirdly very good and really great at base coating models that are primarily one color. But yeah, you're better off with nearly anything else. I'd personally recommend Winsor and Newton Series 7 brushes but I find as long as you get sable hair brushes and you fine.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
Hmm if I spend another £30 this month I'll get £10 off next month. I was thinking of getting that Terminator Chaplain next Saturday anyway, I imagine he'll be £25. Couple of pots of paint it is :D
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,882
I'm sure I read Winsor and Newton supply the artificer range of GW brushes as it happens.

For me I just use cheap GW/art shop brushes for rough work, then Windsor and Newton Series 7 for detail work, along with some Artis Opus ones (plus their dry brushes).

I'm probably going to try a Raphael size 1 brush too, as I've heard great things!
 

Deleted member 29682

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
12,290
I actually found that when the finer synthetic brushes start to hook, some details actually get a bit easier (especially fine trims). Wouldn't want to free-hand any details with them though.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
52,880
So I am continuing my decent into the lore today and I just came across the concept of Daemonculaba.



Just.......what the fuck man...
 
Oct 26, 2017
12,125
Yeah fair enough. They've got a lot of kits to get out. Assault Intercessors, eradicators, gladiator, Gravis captain. This wave of marines is more than some new factions get, its insane.
ya, the community as a whole even marine fanboys are not happy with it. just way to many marines now, just way to many for no reason.

other factions need attention