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Drax

Oregon tag
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,076
Of course, the real thing every marine player isn't talking about is how good eradicators comparatively are now that auras don't buff tanks, as it doesn't make sense to shoot themselves in the foot (with a Melta rifle) :D

In all honesty I'm way more pleased with all the buffs from the marine codex to the Redemptor Dread with plasma incinerator that I just spent 2 weeks painting...

Oh marine players are definitely talking about it

It's weird how these units are so pushed hard while gladiators are doa (the randomness of the space marine buffs and nerfs even with new units).

Honestly, I think if they made the ability for aggressors and eradicators to fire twice into a strategem, instead of just completely removed from aggressors and still on eradicators would have made perfect sense to me.
 
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Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
Oh marine players are definitely talking about it

It's weird how these units are so pushed hard while gladiators are doa (the randomness of the space marine buffs and nerfs even with new units).

Honestly, I think if they made the ability for aggressors and eradicators to fire twice into a strategem, instead of just completely removed from aggressors and still on eradicators would have made perfect sense to me.
I do quite like the look of the gladiator lancer, If only because the repulsor executioner and it's co-axial Gatling gun looks a bit silly comparatively.

If I were to choose one of the gladiator variants for my army though, it would likely be the Reaper. 30-something S5/6 shots, that all get +1 to hit if it doesn't move because Dark Angels, and gets a further -1AP in the Devastator doctrine? Seems brutal against non-power-armoured opponents to me. Reminds me of my Imperial Guard days 15 years ago when I would just lock down a flank with a Leman Russ Exterminator with 3 heavy bolters and twin-linked autocannons in the turret. The game has changed to the point where that doesn't sound as threatensing any more, but there's something to be said for the threat value of things with a crazy-high potential, if not performance :D
 

dapperbandit

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,162
The Core thing has been bugging me. My Necron Army had a challenging time in 8th due to that Codex working pretty much entirely around the DYNASTY and INFANTRY codewords. Things have got better but sort of sideways backwards given that Core effects both troop choices, tomb blades, lychguard, deathmarks and that is literally it. The closest you get to an anti tank choice that can be supported as a CORE unit is Lychguard with Warscythes. Everything else is Destroyer Cults, Crypteks, Triarch or Vehicles.

So many times I get excited by a possible combo of strats and abilities the Core keyword appears to ruin it.

When I first heard about it I considered it only from the Space Marine angle and thought yes, this sounds good, heroes inspire their troops not themselves, this is both fluffy and balanced. But so much of their stuff gets core compared to our 5 choices - they have legitimate options like Eradicators who can benefit from Core where a Repulsor does not.

I suppose the issue with Necrons is they are such a mish mash of weirdos like Flayed Ones, Destroyers and Praetorians that are too crazy to follow orders or literally only answer to Szarekh that all these things not being core *is* fluffy.

It would just be nice if they let us interact with the mechanic so you could expand that utility. It's not hard to imagine for example an Overlord having such total authority over his Tomb World that he has absolute control of the Tomb's Canoptek constructs... giving them core.

Sorry for the rant, it's just a shame after all these years absolutely pushing the 8th Codex to its bloody limit to get synergies only to find such awkward stumbling blocks when trying to list build in 9th.

Don't get me wrong, still excited to play them and working out some nice tricks already. Canoptek Spyders went from zero takes in 8th to actually being this wacky swiss army knife that doesn't just offer repairs, respawning scarabs, psychic denial but is actually solid in shooting and combat, getting 12 S5 Ap0 shots a model (shooting into combat too as Monsters) and 5 S8 AP3 Damage 2 attacks in combat, with the capacity for perhaps 9 attacks each, making them amusingly scary given how pants they were last edition.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
The Core thing has been bugging me. My Necron Army had a challenging time in 8th due to that Codex working pretty much entirely around the DYNASTY and INFANTRY codewords. Things have got better but sort of sideways backwards given that Core effects both troop choices, tomb blades, lychguard, deathmarks and that is literally it. The closest you get to an anti tank choice that can be supported as a CORE unit is Lychguard with Warscythes. Everything else is Destroyer Cults, Crypteks, Triarch or Vehicles.

So many times I get excited by a possible combo of strats and abilities the Core keyword appears to ruin it.

When I first heard about it I considered it only from the Space Marine angle and thought yes, this sounds good, heroes inspire their troops not themselves, this is both fluffy and balanced. But so much of their stuff gets core compared to our 5 choices - they have legitimate options like Eradicators who can benefit from Core where a Repulsor does not.

I suppose the issue with Necrons is they are such a mish mash of weirdos like Flayed Ones, Destroyers and Praetorians that are too crazy to follow orders or literally only answer to Szarekh that all these things not being core *is* fluffy.

It would just be nice if they let us interact with the mechanic so you could expand that utility. It's not hard to imagine for example an Overlord having such total authority over his Tomb World that he has absolute control of the Tomb's Canoptek constructs... giving them core.

Sorry for the rant, it's just a shame after all these years absolutely pushing the 8th Codex to its bloody limit to get synergies only to find such awkward stumbling blocks when trying to list build in 9th.

Don't get me wrong, still excited to play them and working out some nice tricks already. Canoptek Spyders went from zero takes in 8th to actually being this wacky swiss army knife that doesn't just offer repairs, respawning scarabs, psychic denial but is actually solid in shooting and combat, getting 12 S5 Ap0 shots a model (shooting into combat too as Monsters) and 5 S8 AP3 Damage 2 attacks in combat, with the capacity for perhaps 9 attacks each, making them amusingly scary given how pants they were last edition.
Agree with you on 'core', it works well on marines when they have 18+ infantry units it applies to, less so for the armies with a smaller, more esoteric range. I'm hoping the craftworld eldar get it across all aspect warrior units given that's supposed to be their 'standing army'.
 

Cvie

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,258
Drukhari were the ones I thought could struggle with it.

I don't see it being much different than now for drukhari other than the sit a archon in the middle of three ravagers set up which i think people were moving away from. Your leaders only rerolled for KABAL or WYTCH CULT keyword anyway. If Talos lose the +1 toughness for Homunculus aura that would be pretty shit though.
 

Bizazedo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,608
Played a game last night, 2k. Decided to take 8th edition point and rules Necrons out for one last spin (9th edition mission and rules) and brought a weird list. An Overlord, a Plasmancer (okay he's not 8th, shut up), a Cryptek, 40 Warriors, 15 Immortals, 6 Wraiths, 2 Doom Scythes, and a Triarch Stalker. Going up against my Guard friend who figured out WAY before the internet how good Chimeras and Scout Sentinels were backed up by indirect fire Manticore Tank ace and Basilisks (and a few Tank Commanders).

He didn't bring that list, though. We know it's very good, so he's experimenting. What I saw across the board was 60 conscripts, a metric ton of Guardsmen, an Inquisitor in some chair-like thing that had a 30 inch range multi-melta, and tons of special weapons models, teams, and veterans.

I usually lean heavily into anti-tank IN GENERAL because I love me some lascannon equivalents. That kind of list would've torched me. I lucked out in bringing what I did, but also got first turn and got a charge off with the Wraiths. He then rolled poorly the rest of the game.

I thought the table was about to be flipped, though, when he managed to score 14 wounds on the three remaining Wraiths with his at that point massed Cadian mortar fire. 14 wounds, 13 saves. Even if they had been 9th edition Wraiths, it still would've been 12 saves. I rolled eleven 5's and 6's and one 4.

He conceded at that point, but I think his targeting was off and he should've aimed more at my softer targets, but I have no idea. It was just one of those games. The Triarch Stalker shrugged off the first lascannon hit due to Quantum Shielding, he could never really get enough firepower into the Doom Scythes due to the -1 to hit, and I sent the Wraiths into his lines at a point where dense cover woods were blocking off most of his army and so THEY got -1 to hit....Terrain's important.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
Nicely done. It's always good to experiment. Honing a proven list allows incremental improvement, but sometimes I like an unexpected build, you can lose big or really learn something new. Especially when I've been using the same ~50% of my minis for that faction for ages and I want a game plan I haven't already mapped out in my head!
 

Deleted member 29682

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
12,290
I was thinking of picking up a couple of models just to add some variety while I'm building my Admech, but it turns out there's a whole Night Goblin faction so I'm mildly intrigued with the idea of building a small army for that too. Wouldn't really be worth the effort if barely anyone is playing it though.
 
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Gareth

Gareth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,439
Norn Iron
It's definitely one of the most popular wargames, not as big as 40K but I'd say it's easier to get into. It's come a long way since it first launched, and as LTWheels said they're still growing the lore and adding brand new factions which is cool to see.

I've been getting back into it here lately, building some Orruks and Ogors during the pandemic. Got one of the big new Gargants ordered today as well!

Currently putting together an AoS thread for Era too...
 

Drax

Oregon tag
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,076
It's definitely one of the most popular wargames, not as big as 40K but I'd say it's easier to get into. It's come a long way since it first launched, and as LTWheels said they're still growing the lore and adding brand new factions which is cool to see.

I've been getting back into it here lately, building some Orruks and Ogors during the pandemic. Got one of the big new Gargants ordered today as well!

Currently putting together an AoS thread for Era too...

To add to this i think their secondary games are more harmonious with the main game than 40k right now (with warcry getting a new base set) and underworlds really being a good way to check out models of particular factions.

I think kill team is in a rought spot right now, and a lot of people love Necromunda but it doesn't overlap with 40k that well.
 
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LTWheels

Member
Nov 8, 2017
767
I love necromunda. I wish it had more regular plastic releases and less forgeworld.

Underworld's is really good as well. I was a bit disappointed with Warcry.

Kill Team needs a 9th revamp, and 40k could do with a smaller Underworld style game. Would be a great way to see some unique models, and have some of the background races (bit like Blackstone fortress ) get models.
 

Deleted member 29682

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
12,290
I do like that the models from secondary games can be put into primary game armies with their own unique rules. Though maybe that's just because the Blackstone Fortress Tech-Priest is pretty good and I'm biased.
 

Sneaky Gato

Member
Oct 27, 2017
535
I do like that the models from secondary games can be put into primary game armies with their own unique rules. Though maybe that's just because the Blackstone Fortress Tech-Priest is pretty good and I'm biased.
A lot of people pick up the Underworlds war bands to act as unique sergeant and hero models which something I wish that GW did more often.
 

Poodlestrike

Smooth vs. Crunchy
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
13,489
A lot of people pick up the Underworlds war bands to act as unique sergeant and hero models which something I wish that GW did more often.
That feels like a really easy market that GW is for some reason ignoring. Like how Lego sells individual special minifigs. I really feel like people would shell out for real-deal Ciaphas Cain (and Jurgen), Ibram Gaunt, etc etc models. Package 'em with a data sheet, let stores set numbers and make the rest to order.
 

Sneaky Gato

Member
Oct 27, 2017
535
That feels like a really easy market that GW is for some reason ignoring. Like how Lego sells individual special minifigs. I really feel like people would shell out for real-deal Ciaphas Cain (and Jurgen), Ibram Gaunt, etc etc models. Package 'em with a data sheet, let stores set numbers and make the rest to order.
I think for a time they were doing this with the Eisenhorn and Commisar Raine models but I suspect that the buildup for ninth led them to stop. Hopefully with the second factory running up now they will be able to do more of these limited run orders.

Which reminds me shouldn't Forge World already be doing more of these things? The work/cost/time needed for a boutique resin cast versus a plastic injection mold is a lot smaller and easier to justify. This seems like it should be right up their alley.

It feels like ever since Alan Blighs passing GWs relationship with FW has gotten wierd. And I'm still waiting on whatever that big reorganization news they teased a year ago was.
 

Poodlestrike

Smooth vs. Crunchy
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
13,489
I think for a time they were doing this with the Eisenhorn and Commisar Raine models but I suspect that the buildup for ninth led them to stop. Hopefully with the second factory running up now they will be able to do more of these limited run orders.

Which reminds me shouldn't Forge World already be doing more of these things? The work/cost/time needed for a boutique resin cast versus a plastic injection mold is a lot smaller and easier to justify. This seems like it should be right up their alley.

It feels like ever since Alan Blighs passing GWs relationship with FW has gotten wierd. And I'm still waiting on whatever that big reorganization news they teased a year ago was.
I'm not super familiar with the particulars of plastic vs. reisin, but as a rule, once you have an injection mold designed and made, the cost per unit is suuuuuuper low. So it's a question of "do you think you'll sell enough to justify the initial investment." Whereas I kind of get the impression from the way they run Forge World that making each model is kind of a PITA. So I feel like they'd probably favor doing it in plastic if they do it at all.
 

Sneaky Gato

Member
Oct 27, 2017
535
I'm not super familiar with the particulars of plastic vs. reisin, but as a rule, once you have an injection mold designed and made, the cost per unit is suuuuuuper low. So it's a question of "do you think you'll sell enough to justify the initial investment." Whereas I kind of get the impression from the way they run Forge World that making each model is kind of a PITA. So I feel like they'd probably favor doing it in plastic if they do it at all.
So I'm not that familiar either with the process but from what I've been given to understand is that resin can use the same molds that were used for old school metal casting and thus the molds can be easily swapped in for a single low count run. While plastic molds are cheaper in mass they take a lot of money and effort to make and the machines have to be completely reconfigured each time a new mold is inserted. Which is why for the longest time GW was the only one making plastic models, since they had the money, while everyone else (which if you want a hilarious/cringe take on that look up the old page 5 for Privateer Press's Warmachine ) kept on with metal molds and many still do. Hell I'm not sure if there is a single historical manufacturer that even has an extensive line of plastics given just how much cheaper and faster resin is. This is also how boutique manufacturers like the Perry Bros. Stay in business since they can literally take an order, swap in the mold, do a single press, and ship.

Which is why I'm confused on why FW is not doing this already. I feel like there is some wierd energy between the two studios ever since the return of Specialist Games.
 

Drax

Oregon tag
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,076
Forge world was really impacted by covid. Like we're still waiting on Saul Tarvitz and his model was shown off along time ago.

And let's be real, if they could they would probably just do 30k marines all the time if they could. With 18 variants of every dreadnaught and terminator.

That feels like a really easy market that GW is for some reason ignoring. Like how Lego sells individual special minifigs. I really feel like people would shell out for real-deal Ciaphas Cain (and Jurgen), Ibram Gaunt, etc etc models. Package 'em with a data sheet, let stores set numbers and make the rest to order.

To be honest, instead of space marine heroes, I wish they do kits like the rogue trader set in a underworlds like manner.
 
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BabyMurloc

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,890
Ok, so I had another game of 9th, another blowout on turn 2. This time I was running Aeldari (list below) and my friend had an actually friendly marine list (approximation of the list also below).

My turn 1, I set up so I had 4 objectives with my tanks being all at -1 to hit. I destroyed a Rhino and a Speeder.

His turn 1, three of my tanks and the Vyper are casually nuked by his las and melta. Captain and Dreadnought wound aura, as well as new melta rules means just a couple of units can do incredible damage. His bolters then easily shot up the 8 surviving dire avengers (you can't hold even your own objectives and stay out of bolter range in many scenarios).

My turn 2, I get practically no primary points because 4 obscured vehicles and 10 infantry is apparently trivial to remove these days. I shoot some more with what little I have left, kill razorback and 3 Sternguard. I charge devastators, champion and speeder with every cc unit I have (harlequins and their master, wraithblades and spiritseer). I kill the character, one devastator and do some wounds on the speeder. Lose the entire Troupe in return and lose wounds on Spiritseer and Troupe Master both (the troupe consolidated into a venerable it to stop it shooting and capturing objectives. Didn't work). My friend even forgot to use his "attack even when dead" stratagem on the character.

His turn 2, he shoots and charges everything off the board except Farseer, Death Jester and Dark Reapers that fire and faded. Protected Wraithblades refuse to die, but with 4+ to hit they're not exactly doing much either. We call it quits because by now it's clear that victory was mathematically impossible from the beginning. Well technically just very very unlikely.

Lessons learned, 9th edition is just non-functional as a game for the majority of army list choices on offer. Either go marines, go horde, or stop playing.

Aeldari:

Crafworld battalion (expert crafters, students of vaul
Farseer
Spiritseer
2x5 Dire Avengers
6 Rangers
5 Wraithblades w/axes
1 Vyper
4 Dark Reapers
1 Night Spinner
1 Falcon
2 Wave Serpents

Harlequins patrol (soaring spite)
Troupe Master
5 Troupers with fusion and power weapons
1 Death Jester
1 Starweaver

Marines (save against mortal wounds, some charge bonus that never came up)

Captain
Lieutenant
Company (?) Champion
Techmarine w/conversion beamer
3x5 Tac marines
5 Sternguard
5 Devastators w/ 2 multimeltas
2 Venerable dreadnoughts w/lascannons
2 Rhinos
1 Razorback w/assault cannons
Inquisitor Karamazov
 
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BabyMurloc

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,890
As a fun detail, what lost me the melee was just the absolute shitpile of special rules on the marine champion. He made enemy characters strike last and gave -1 to hit. So I had to go kill him with regular Harlequins and dump CP to up their damage. But then it turns out the Troupe Master is worthless anyway, unless you kit him out with relics.

But it should be noted that the Harlequins were way better than anything else I had. I can believe they make for a good army in capable hands. But that's not very useful to someone sitting with 4k points of Craftworld and maybe 500 points of Harlequins.
 
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Drax

Oregon tag
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,076
youtu.be

This Week In Warhammer: Martian Souls

Short of time? Watch a whole week's worth of Warhammer in a matter of minutes in the aptly named This Week in Warhammer.Don't‌ ‌forget‌ ‌to‌ ‌like,‌ ‌share‌ ...

Looks like we're going to get a preview show soon called Gridiron and Glory next week.

Blood Bowl is going to be the obvious star with IMHO the new Underworlds box set Firechasm being the other headliner.
 
youtu.be

This Week In Warhammer: Martian Souls

Short of time? Watch a whole week's worth of Warhammer in a matter of minutes in the aptly named This Week in Warhammer.Don't‌ ‌forget‌ ‌to‌ ‌like,‌ ‌share‌ ...

Looks like we're going to get a preview show soon called Gridiron and Glory next week.

Blood Bowl is going to be the obvious star with IMHO the new Underworlds box set Firechasm being the other headliner.
There is a pretty strong rumour that a new edition of BB is coming way before covid hit.
 
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Gareth

Gareth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,439
Norn Iron
Void Dragon, Monolith and Convergence of Dominion for me, but I think I'll put off buying them for a while - plenty to work on at the moment!
 

Bizazedo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,608
Ok, so I had another game of 9th, another blowout on turn 2. This time I was running Aeldari (list below) and my friend had an actually friendly marine list (approximation of the list also below).
I see 4 Dark Reapers, but how much other anti-tank did you have? Sounds like you didn't kill anything that you needed to turn one since a Rhino + a Speeder are not their heavy hitters. Who did the Dark Reapers fire at first turn?
 

BabyMurloc

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,890
I see 4 Dark Reapers, but how much other anti-tank did you have? Sounds like you didn't kill anything that you needed to turn one since a Rhino + a Speeder are not their heavy hitters. Who did the Dark Reapers fire at first turn?

Those. Dreadnoughts are easy to hide, so they always get to come out and fire at least once. On top of the 5 antitank missiles from Reapers (exarch fires twice) I had 4 starcannons and 4 other lances/missiles, as well as 6 fusion on the Harlequins. That's not a bad number, in fact more than he had, it's just that Craftworld don't get the rerolls Marines do and their weapons are inferior, fragile and expensive.

But we again get into the territory of "why did you use the units you have, they suck". I do have a big pile of Iron Hands/Ultramarines Primaris I can use, and next time I will. But it's not a solution.
 
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Bizazedo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,608
Was he using 8th edition marine rules or the new 9th?

Without knowing terrain, mission, secondaries, etc., somewhat hard to really comment on it beyond that.
 

BabyMurloc

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,890
Was he using 8th edition marine rules or the new 9th?

Without knowing terrain, mission, secondaries, etc., somewhat hard to really comment on it beyond that.

New rules. It's ok, I'm just extremely frustrated by having had the bad fortune of owning three armies that are beyond bad right now: Craftworld Eldar, Tau, Black Legion. The last of those can be salvaged a bit, but you really only have one build you can use, namely Daemon Engines. Tau I won't even take out of the attic until the new codex is released, hopefully not more than a year from now.
 
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Gareth

Gareth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,439
Norn Iron
Blood Angels Hellblaster from McFarlane:
sxapWnGo3bmkeByO.jpg
 

Bombless

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,580
The Crozius Arcanum is still one of the most ridiculous weapons of 40k. Best stick in the entire universe.
 

PanzerKraken

Member
Nov 1, 2017
14,979
I was building casually a 8e Marine Army, and then bam, 9e so I'm kinda not sure if Im doing things right anymore, the constant changes to marines especially is annoying AF.

Is there a list of how detachments work in the new edition or what the detachments are even so I know Im picking the right friggin models?

I haven't played for a long time, there used to just be one army list back when I played so detachments feel super confusing to me, essentially you can make multiple army lists as one list? ugh.
 

BabyMurloc

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,890
I was building casually a 8e Marine Army, and then bam, 9e so I'm kinda not sure if Im doing things right anymore, the constant changes to marines especially is annoying AF.

Is there a list of how detachments work in the new edition or what the detachments are even so I know Im picking the right friggin models?

I haven't played for a long time, there used to just be one army list back when I played so detachments feel super confusing to me, essentially you can make multiple army lists as one list? ugh.

You can play like in the good old times, just go with one battalion and fill it with Marines. It's the same thing it's been for 20 years: 2-3 HQ, 3+ Troops, etc.
 

Drax

Oregon tag
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,076
Hah, when I played it was 1 HQ, 2 Troops required... so yea its een a while

That's basically a combat patrol which is standard for 500 points. But you only need 1 hq and 1 troop min.

I'd def build up for a combat patrol at the min with the potential of going to a batallion (2 hq/3 troops min).

Edit. As much as I don't like the front of the invader, (and I'm looking to see what people do to fix it).

I like it a billion times better then the stupid third marine in the new speeders
 

Drax

Oregon tag
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,076
Look like primaris helbrecht is heavily rumored now.

I would kill for a proper bt supplement after what happened with faith and fury and the faq.
 

BabyMurloc

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,890
Black Templars now have deep strike charge probability of about 80%. Chaplain stratagem gives +2 to charge within 6", chapter tactics give reroll. So deep strike three squads and you'll always get what you need. 51% of succeeding with all of them which is completely bonkers. The power level in this new codex is utterly broken, just different than before.

Also fun fact, Land Speeders are now faster and tougher than Vyper jetbikes for the same price. And no one will use Speeders because they're not a very good unit in the marine context.

I think I shall play my Eldar as White Scars successors.
 

Drax

Oregon tag
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,076
Black Templars now have deep strike charge probability of about 80%. Chaplain stratagem gives +2 to charge within 6", chapter tactics give reroll. So deep strike three squads and you'll always get what you need. 51% of succeeding with all of them which is completely bonkers. The power level in this new codex is utterly broken, just different than before.

Also fun fact, Land Speeders are now faster and tougher than Vyper jetbikes for the same price. And no one will use Speeders because they're not a very good unit in the marine context.

I think I shall play my Eldar as White Scars successors.

Black Templars are fine in that melee chapters have done really well with Indomitus edition and with how Eradicators being the only anti tank a faction needs and (and this was before they got buffed in the codes) and melee units impacting objectives (and factions like Tau being hurt by them).

what was not fine was them losing a fluff doctrine for no reason at all.

As for marines, pretty much every players
realize that Eradicators in this incarnation are a mistake (and that the codex was pushed over all). It's just frustrating to have.to buy a third codex in two years and having so many issues with it (and yes Eradicators will have to be nerfed, I don't see how it won't happen).