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Wargroove |OT| Advance Wargs

SecondNature

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,158
If all the units are copies of each other and only the commander is unique, won't that lead to some predictable gameplay? For example, does it ultimately matter which faction you pick if the commander is just the differentiating factor, and their ability is all that makes the occasional difference?

I could maybe think of how they could have designed factions and heroes to all play differently against each other like a card game almost. Like, what if each faction had a passive ability of some kind, or a special unit that others didnt? Theres no difference between factions besides the aesthetics and leader abilities right?

Perhaps too unbalanced to give factions passives, but Im wondering if the game will end up falling into a certain pattern where youre rushing to get certain units on the board fastest, and since factions don't matter, both teams will do the same thing.

I hope the editor can be updated to modify things like this, allowing users the freedom to make the gameplay more complicated.
 
Lumination

Lumination

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,474
Lord of Ostia said:
I mean it's the main differentiating factor between Wargroove and Advance Wars, the core identity of the game is based around the commander mechanics. I'm glad they are doing something different, otherwise the game really would just be a straight up AW clone.
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Sign me up tbh.

Still, less than 48hrs. The wait is rough.
 
Firemind

Firemind

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,543
Fireblend said:
In async multiplayer games you can set time limits, so for example, for random opponents you may want to set it to 24 hours, so that if it's someone's turn and they don't make a move within that timeframe, you win.

And like QisTopTier said below me, you can be playing several games at once, so it's not like you are waiting around for just 1 other person. Personally I plan on playing with friends though, and we love games like these because they let us play at our own pace.
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QisTopTier said:
I mean it has both regular style and that. You can play a bunch of async games at once.
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I'm aware of how async works. I've played https://awbw.amarriner.com, an online Advance Wars simulator. In my purely anecdotal experience, a decent percentage of 3p+ games are unfinished or spoiled, because a player exceeded its time limit, which causes a forfeit, which gives an advantage to the adjacant players since the buildings are now undefended. And these are hardcore AW fans. I've had a game that lasted 100+ turns because the little ground my opponent occupied, I took back with Sami.

Seeing there's no ladder system, I wonder how often you get paired to someone who plays the game until they're tired of it. I mean, there are people here who posted that they'll ragequit if they lost an hour of progress because of a CO death lol
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
SecondNature said:
If all the units are copies of each other and only the commander is unique, won't that lead to some predictable gameplay? For example, does it ultimately matter which faction you pick if the commander is just the differentiating factor, and their ability is all that makes the occasional difference?

I could maybe think of how they could have designed factions and heroes to all play differently against each other like a card game almost. Like, what if each faction had a passive ability of some kind, or a special unit that others didnt? Theres no difference between factions besides the aesthetics and leader abilities right?

Perhaps too unbalanced to give factions passives, but Im wondering if the game will end up falling into a certain pattern where youre rushing to get certain units on the board fastest, and since factions don't matter, both teams will do the same thing.

I hope the editor can be updated to modify things like this, allowing users the freedom to make the gameplay more complicated.
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Eh, things like the map design and your position on the map/in the battle determine what units you field and focus on, not to mention general preferred playstyles of each individual player. Plus the commander abilities have synergy with different unit types, and the critical hit requirements for each unit type are kind of a 'passive bonus' like you are talking about. Everyone has access to the same roster of units, but will have different funds, different captured buildings to create units or generate funds, and as the battle changes different units get prioritized.

By your logic, Chess is always predictable because every player has access to the same pieces with the same abilities...and to some degree it is predictable, but even with those limited variables there are so many different permutations that matches can go many different ways. Wargroove has way more variables than Chess, so I don't think that's really something to be worried about.
Lumination said:
Sign me up tbh.

Still, less than 48hrs. The wait is rough.
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I get what you are saying, but I doubt Chucklefish wanted to create a shameless clone given that they are a pretty talented and creative studio. If Intelligent Systems were to make a new AW, I would expect them to innovate a little. Same goes for any developer trying to make this style of game, especially since it is so gameplay focused and can't differentiate itself as much solely on story and aesthetics.
 
Lumination

Lumination

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,474
Lord of Ostia said:
I get what you are saying, but I doubt Chucklefish wanted to create a shameless clone given that they are a pretty talented and creative studio. If Intelligent Systems were to make a new AW, I would expect them to innovate a little. Same goes for any developer trying to make this style of game, especially since it is so gameplay focused and can't differentiate itself as much solely on story and aesthetics.
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I agree. I'm just not sure that it's an improvement. But too early for that! Let the game come out first, I suppose.
 
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hersheyfan

hersheyfan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,749
Manila, Philippines
SpottieO said:
Woo boy just finished Bayonetta 2 so I'm officially ready for this to come out.
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Oh crap! That reminds me, I've got to finish off my RE2R Claire B playthrough before this drops, or I'll never get it done.

Thanks again for doing the review thread, SpottieO! Much appreciated!

Based on the countdown on the Steam store page, this is likely going to drop on Steam before it unlocks on the eShop. I'll probably pick it up there too so I can play early!
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
Lumination said:
I agree. I'm just not sure that it's an improvement. But too early for that! Let the game come out first, I suppose.
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Yeah that's all I'm saying really, I don't know how well-implemented the commander units and mechanics are in the game cause I haven't played it yet. I just wouldn't dismiss that aspect of the game on its face just because it's different than AW.
 
Firemind

Firemind

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,543
Lord of Ostia said:
Eh, things like the map design and your position on the map/in the battle determine what units you field and focus on, not to mention general preferred playstyles of each individual player. Plus the commander abilities have synergy with different unit types, and the critical hit requirements for each unit type are kind of a 'passive bonus' like you are talking about. Everyone has access to the same roster of units, but will have different funds, different captured buildings to create units or generate funds, and as the battle changes different units get prioritized.

By your logic, Chess is always predictable because every player has access to the same pieces with the same abilities...and to some degree it is predictable, but even with those limited variables there are so many different permutations that matches can go many different ways. Wargroove has way more variables than Chess, so I don't think that's really something to be worried about.
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The problem isn't the game design; symmetry will always yield the most fair balance. The question is whether it fosters a better, more fun environment. You mentioned chess. Say if two people of equal skill level are playing each other, a percentage of games will end up in a draw. Which sucks because there's no winner. Translate it to Advance Wars and pit two people of equal skill level against each other and you get stalemates which aren't really fun to the average, more casual person. One of the better ways to force and break stalemates is to have asymmetrical gameplay and use simple math to gain the upper hand (which is why Colin and Hachi ended up being broken in property heavy maps.) If you don't have that, you end up along the lines of Days of Ruin, where it's very difficult to break fortified lines. That game even increased the cost of infantry, but it didn't matter because it's an even playing field most of the time.
 
Bulletzen

Bulletzen

Member
Oct 30, 2017
555
Preordered and paid for on the Switch. WTF am I doing? I NEVER preorder games, but that will be two in one month (Metro: Exodus for the Steam client). Anyway the same as most on here. Loved the Advance Wars series and hoping this will be a return to those glory days!
 
Merton

Merton

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,316
Bulletzen said:
Preordered and paid for on the Switch. WTF am I doing? I NEVER preorder games, but that will be two in one month (Metro: Exodus for the Steam client). Anyway the same as most on here. Loved the Advance Wars series and hoping this will be a return to those glory days!
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I dont either but this seemed like a safe bet and its paying off. I expected this to be awesome. To be fair I got to play this at pax on xbox last year and it was as I expected. I couldnt believe there wasnt a line for this. Getting on Switch, both me and my friend that will play have a kid, her, and are expecting, both of us, so having the asynchronous multiplayer will be a god send, so tough to play games online or at all, when youve got a kid or have a wife expecting or are a woman expecting a 2nd kid and have the other to handle. Makes me miss college :)
 
MasterCheeze

MasterCheeze

Member
Oct 29, 2017
183
Kinda spaced out on this game until I saw the GameXplain review, but I'm totally back on the hype train. I'm a huuuge fan of the Advance Wars series and (moreso the classic) Fire Emblem. I was gonna get a Switch pretty soon, and this will probably be one of the first games I get along with Hollow Knight.
 
SpottieO

SpottieO

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,613
hersheyfan said:
Oh crap! That reminds me, I've got to finish off my RE2R Claire B playthrough before this drops, or I'll never get it done.

Thanks again for doing the review thread, SpottieO! Much appreciated!

Based on the countdown on the Steam store page, this is likely going to drop on Steam before it unlocks on the eShop. I'll probably pick it up there too so I can play early!
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Yeah unfortunately this won't be a midnight release on Switch :(
 

Deleted member 51306

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 27, 2018
628
I can't wait for this. Only problem is I can't decide what platform to but it on. Xbox or Switch. Love the portability of Switch but also love achievements and knowing that I'll have this game for the foreseeable future as the next box will be back compat and I could see a world where the next switch isn't.
 
QisTopTier

QisTopTier

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,717
Im just happy this game is almost here. I've been excited for it since that first short little peak at it.
 
TYRANITARR

TYRANITARR

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,967
I wonder if I will like this more than Into the Breach. I was certain last year that ITB was the new king of turn based strategy game, beating out AW and FE
 
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hersheyfan

hersheyfan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,749
Manila, Philippines
adam prime said:
I wonder if I will like this more than Into the Breach. I was certain last year that ITB was the new king of turn based strategy game, beating out AW and FE
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Well, Into the Breach is more of an evolution of the turn based formula. Most of us are hype for Wargroove because we want a revival of the good old classic formula from back in the day.

Heropon. said:
The king is Ambition of the Slimes ! ;)
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Really? That good? I'll pick it up the next time it pops up in an eShop sale!
 
Ryugarr

Ryugarr

Member
Dec 6, 2018
217
Does anyone know if you can play coop pvp with a friend against 2 other real players online?
 

Mr.Beep

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
832
I thought each faction would have unique units or at least some unique... Or even different bonuses. But they are literally carbon copy right, as in Advance Wars?

And commanders don't give faction wide bonuses at all? Thought that did a good job of making units more unique between COs.
 
Kirbivore

Kirbivore

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,927
hersheyfan said:
Well, Into the Breach is more of an evolution of the turn based formula. Most of us are hype for Wargroove because we want a revival of the good old classic formula from back in the day.


Really? That good? I'll pick it up the next time it pops up in an eShop sale!
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Default price is 5 dollars
 
LegendaryElite

LegendaryElite

Banned
Nov 8, 2017
173
Love Advanced War series and am looking forward to playing this.
Any possibility will they have matchmaking in the multi in the future? My friends are not interested in strategy games.
 
Unicorn

Unicorn

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 29, 2017
9,547
In my hype I've been replaying AW2 and here are a few take-aways:

I have no one to play with or a way to play with other people outside wonky emulation methods or a website that was a hassle to use when i discovered it like a decade ago. The fact Nintendo has denied AW for so long is egregious in this fact alone.

I've found a few people that have made some decent VS content in youtube videos as well as giving analysis on good map design and philosophy that I hope to incorporate into map making in this game.

And, I'm super curious how the devs thought through map size, Grooves, design philosophy, combat, economy, and all those details. Is there a collection of their thought process on designing this game? I've been constantly viewing their blog and following trade-show demos, but am curious if I missed something or if they have something planned.

I think a lot of the early impression are good, but it's all SP which is great and all, but the meat and potatoes in these games for me is the MP. I've got a handful of map designs already spinning in my head, but they are framed through an AW lens in terms of philosophy and design. I'm excited to learn these new mechanics and start making maps around them.

All that said, though, I would love for there to be an AW community I can tap into and start to get better and playing these style of tactical games. Overall, I believe there's totally a space for both of these games to co-exist and have healthy communities alongside one another - a boon for how they have tried to differentiate from AW. I just hope one day that world can exist where WG and AW can be things that are still relevant and persistent.
 
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hersheyfan

hersheyfan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,749
Manila, Philippines

Wargroove Twitter is running a contest where you could potentially win one of those fantastic Pupgroove shirts (until February 3rd).

Quick! Cover your beloved doggo in plastic armor and tweet it to them! 😄
 
dock

dock

Game Designer
Verified
Nov 5, 2017
1,370
Are there any reports of how long the battles are? The overlong battles of Advance Wars killed my long term interest in the game. We once played a three player GBA battle on a long distance coach ride and we had to give up after several hours later when the coach arrived. I fell in love with Into the Breach so I'm worried I won't be able to cope with slow battles again.
 
EdibleKnife

EdibleKnife

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,723
dock said:
Are there any reports of how long the battles are? The overlong battles of Advance Wars killed my long term interest in the game. We once played a three player GBA battle on a long distance coach ride and we had to give up after several hours later when the coach arrived. I fell in love with Into the Breach so I'm worried I won't be able to cope with slow battles again.
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They definitely aren't as short as Into The Breach. I haven't heard much about the later campaign but 10+ minutes for easier and maybe around 20-25+ for harder battles seems to be the set up so far. It's hard to gauge since it can also vary by animations being turned on and off for the various battle cut ins.
 
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