Warcraft: Was Thrall justified in ending Garrosh Hellscream's life without it being a Horde/Alliance decision?

[TheGamingNewsGuy]

I been recently thinking about this as i have been rewatching WOW Cutscenes as well as playing WOW Classic. Basically in terms of context:

Garrosh had been tried by the Horde and the Alliance for his crimes. Before the verdict is reached, he and his followers escape and the Verdict isn't reached (but it is pretty much stated that Garrosh would not have been put to death). Later Thrall entered the fray and challenged Garrosh to mak'gora which is a duel of honor. One weapon vs One weapon. How this fight play out is shown through this cutscene



Garrosh pretty much beats Thrall, knocking his weapon out of his hand and beating on him then Thrall basically decides enough is enough and uses his shaman magic to kill Garrosh with a lighting bolt. While you could make a pretty solid argument that Garrosh's crimes were too numerious for him to let him go free but at the same time he should have really been brought in a second time or at least disabled so the Horde and Alliance could make a judgment rather then Thrall just being judge,jury and executioner. Also Thrall pretty much cheated in that he used his magic powers - not giving Garrosh at least a true one and one fight. Ultimately while i think Garrosh should have definetly been put to death i think that it should have been a Horde/Alliance decision and Thrall not cheating Garrosh out of a fight but that's just my opinion. What do you think?

 

[Brass Body Dave]

Thrall's a fuckin weiner and Garrosh should not have been killed. He's useful for the Horde. Thrall has always been a soft weenie.

 

[TheGamingNewsGuy]

Thrall's a fuckin weiner and Garrosh should not have been killed. He's useful for the Horde. Thrall has always been a soft weenie.

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At that point in the story, Garrosh had commited too many crimes for the Horde to accept him back and the Alliance would still want him dead. He was too much a loose cannon to be left alive.

 

[Brass Body Dave]

At that point in the story, Garrosh had commited too many crimes for the Horde to accept him back and the Alliance would still want him dead. He was too much a loose cannon to be left alive.

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Perhaps they should have sent him and his crew to a land far away...wait, that's not a good idea

 

[TheGamingNewsGuy]

Perhaps they should have sent him and his crew to a land far away...wait, that's not a good idea

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Yeah that would have caused too many problems down the line. Garrosh needed to be dealt with. I am just not sure if Thrall had the right to do it himself and it should have been a Horde/Alliance decision.

 

[elenarie]

He should not have used his shamanic powers to kill Garrosh. The spirits and the elements were very angry with Thrall afterwards. His uncontrolled act of vengeance is why he decided to leave the Horde afterwards and spend his days on Outland.

 

[Weebos]

He'd already been put on trial and escaped from that. I think killing him was justifiable under those circumstances.

That said, I think we would be in a very interesting place in the WoW story if Garrosh was still running around. Maybe we will see him in Shadowlands, though not sure how dying on Draenor affects that.

 

[TheGamingNewsGuy]

He'd already been put on trial and escaped from that. I think killing him was justifiable under those circumstances.

That said, I think we would be in a very interesting place in the WoW story if Garrosh was still running around. Maybe we will see him in Shadowlands, though not sure how dying on Draenor affects that.

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Honestly Slyvanas and her forces probalby would have killed him. She wanted Garrosh dead very early.

 

[Deleted member 52442]

thrall is always justified

 

[Hippopuncher12]

Yeah, because fuck Garrosh. Fuck Sylvanas as well, but I have a feeling they are gonna "gotcha" us with her storyline and that she is doing what she is doing for the greater good. Fuck her anyway.

 

[TheGamingNewsGuy]

Yeah, because fuck Garrosh. Fuck Sylvanas as well, but I have a feeling they are gonna "gotcha" us with her storyline and that she is doing what she is doing for the greater good. Fuck her anyway.

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Yeah i have a feeling they are going to do that or Sylvanas will pretty much become Garrosh 2.0. Mind you she's already that

 

[Deleted member 2229]

Yeah i have a feeling they are going to do that or Sylvanas will pretty much become Garrosh 2.0. Mind you she's already that

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She's already worse and had blizz saying Sylvanas would call Garrosh an amatuer.

 

[Revolver Oshawott]

Garrosh did nothing wrong.

 

[Mirk]

He needed to die and so does Sylvanas.

 

[ZangBa]

He was no angel.

 

[Anoregon]

Garrosh was always fucking lame from day one. When we meet him in Outland he's a whiny baby bitch, then as soon as he finds out his dad did literally one good thing he goes into extreme "I'M THE BEST ORCS ARE THE BEST EVERYONE ELSE SUCKS" overcompensation mode. Dude's on azeroth for like one week and acts like hes knows more about how to fight every threat on the planet, including the alliance, better than folks who been living that life for decades. The guy who's most notable combat achievement on Outland was pouting in the corner while the player character cleaned all of Nagrand up for him.

Punk bitch deserved to get got.

 

[OrangeNova]

Garrosh got railroaded down the path, but he was still there. If he hadn't killed Cairne Bloodhoof(Even unintentionally) it would probably have been different. He was never cut to be a Warchief, he should have led the armies of the horde however.

 

[Bog]

I can't believe you ruined this for my friend Derek who was browsing just now.

 

[Finaj]

Yeah. He needed to be removed. Imprisoning him didn't work.

You know there are places where Garrosh could have been really interesting (ex. Garrosh in books written by Christie Golden and the Stonetalon Mountain storyline in Cataclysm), but in the latter's case the writer who designed that zone literally didn't get the memo that the story team was taking Garrosh in a different direction.

There was also the aspect of Thrall not really preparing Garrosh for the duties of Warchief which should have gotten more focus.

His whole character was so poorly done due to communication problems within Blizzard (and because Blizzard just doesn't have many decent writers).

 

[OrangeNova]

I can't believe you ruined this for my friend Derek who was browsing just now.

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It's okay, it saved him from playing Draenor.

 

[Lashley]

Thrall is never wrong.

 

[Deleted member 5359]

Garrosh was an annoying edgelord character so yes.

 

[Actinium]

Garrosh was a sad victim of mmo story telling being pathed months in advance. When he first became warchief fans hated him because they love Thrall and he was a relative nobody NPC who seemed like a bit of a jerk and was mostly riding in on the nepotism of being Grom's son. The backlash was enough for blizz to decide he had to go so they made up the character assassination moments like the bombing of Theramore and the killing of Cairne and eventually the full heel turn Sha corruption stuff in which he became a full on raid boss that the player base would get to 'kick' out of office. Unfortunately this all happened in gradual updates after his initial introduction as warchief was finally allowed to play out and it turned out he really grew on people so the initial desire to get rid of him had largely disappeared just in time for his arc to turn to shit. With him now niche character that something like a quarter of the players liked we got the weirdest final moment possible, ol green jesus Thrall tracks down and kills him but not in a clean way because he has to get to seem like a tragic figure as he goes out, and we're left with probably the worst of all worlds.

 

[Deleted member 1190]

He should not have used his shamanic powers to kill Garrosh. The spirits and the elements were very angry with Thrall afterwards. His uncontrolled act of vengeance is why he decided to leave the Horde afterwards and spend his days on Outland.

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This is incorrect/a misconception. It was explained in Legion that the elements were never angry with him, it was Thrall's guilt/internal conflict that caused them to stop responding.

And he never cheated in the Mok'gora. That's fan BS.

 

[Dot-N-Run]

The whole using magic during the mak'gora is still one of those heated issues that never seems to have a satisfactory answer.

I remember watching their first mak'gora during the Scourge invasion in Orgrimmar, and nobody was crying foul at Thrall using his Shaman powers then.

 

[Fosko]

Wow's story makes no sense, it's so bad.

 

[VeryHighlander]

Wow's story is so trash now but the one thing I actually liked was Thrall cheating in that duel and just putting Garrosh the fuck down. I liked Garrosh as a villain as well. His buildup starting from the mana bomb to the end of MoP was probably the most organic and believable character arc blizz has done since W3 lol

 

[Anoregon]

Wow's story makes no sense, it's so bad.

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Wow's story is so trash now but the one thing I actually liked was Thrall cheating in that duel and just putting Garrosh the fuck down. I liked Garrosh as a villain as well. His buildup starting from the mana bomb to the end of MoP was probably the most organic and believable character arc blizz has done since W3 lol

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One of the many tragedies of the current expansion is that, despite the primary Horde vs Alliance/"look at how evil Sylvanas is!!" storyline of the xpac being absolute fucking trash, a lot of the smaller plot points that play out adjacent to it are pretty interesting. Delving into Zandalari culture and the various storylines there, for instance, or Kul'Tiras having a whole zone that's like a haunted slavic forest full of wicker beasts and creepy witches. But as soon as things turn back towards the main overarching plot of the expansion it's a big ol mess.

 

[Ithil]

Never bring an axe to a lightning fight.

 

[Disclaimer]

Honestly, WoW's writing isn't nearly thoughtful enough to get so ponderous over. Everything is contrived or arbitrary or breaking characterization, ultimately "because we said so." And I say this as someone who was once a Warcraft lore nerd.

In a world where WoW's storytelling prioritized internal sensibility and consistency, Garrosh would never have been named Warchief at all.

 

[Dalik]

The fact that their own devs didnt even communicate and shipped completely opposite characterization on garrosh proves that WoW story is trash.
I used to be a huge warcraft lore nerd then completly gave up on it after the trash that has been since WoD, BFA managed to be even worse.

 

[asd202]

The ways they went to make WoD happen is just so fucking bad...

 

[zashga]

Wouldn't fighting Garrosh, a warrior, without using magic put Thrall, a shaman, at a huge disadvantage? Why would he even agree to a fight on those terms?

 

[Brass Body Dave]

Wouldn't fighting Garrosh, a warrior, without using magic put Thrall, a shaman, at a huge disadvantage? Why would he even agree to a fight on those terms?

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Garrosh don't think too good!! Of course Thrall would cheat!

 

[Deleted member 6235]

Garrosh wanted to commit genocide

Fuck him

 

[rayhorakhty]

Man, I *liked* Garrosh when he first became Warchief. I wanted him to succeed and learn and become great like Thrall. And I wasn't opposed to his idea of bringing the fight back into the Horde because the game had become so cozy with the Horde and Alliance working together against a greater threat that their original feuds had all but been forgotten. But they wrote him so poorly after that and I just hated the direction he went. I guess that was the goal? But it seemed so cheap. *shrugs*

 

[spootime]

Honestly, WoW's writing isn't nearly thoughtful enough to get so ponderous over. Everything is contrived or arbitrary or breaking characterization, ultimately "because we said so." And I say this as someone who was once a Warcraft lore nerd.

In a world where WoW's storytelling prioritized internal sensibility and consistency, Garrosh would never have been named Warchief at all.

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The writing is weirdly terrible. Like you think blizzard could throw enough money around to at least hire someone with a base level of competence.

 

[Finaj]

Now that the

Spoiler

position of Warchief in the Horde has been eliminated, maybe the Horde can have some peace and quiet for a bit (with the exception of the Forsaken; between a new leader and the Night Elves hunting them down, they need to do some soul searching.

The writing is weirdly terrible. Like you think blizzard could throw enough money around to at least hire someone with a base level of competence.

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Writing is the one category Blizzard has consistently faltered in, but that might start to change. Blizzard hired the head writer for Cyberpunk 2077, but we don't know what they're working on.

 

[Xalbur]

Draenor was also quite a mess dev wise and they had to abort some of the later plans and focus on Legion, which in the bigger picture seems like the right call, but it makes me wonder if stuff like the Garrosh storyline got short end of the stick due to that.
Also, BfA main story was pretty poor but enjoyed the Jaina arc quite a lot, at the very least I'm hopeful for the leveling zone story arcs in Shadowlands

 

[Professor Lich]

I'm always sad we never got our true Warchief, Stonetalon Garrosh.

oh well

 

[Zacmortar]

Revenge is great, Actually

 

[TheGamingNewsGuy]

Now that the

Spoiler

position of Warchief in the Horde has been eliminated, maybe the Horde can have some peace and quiet for a bit (with the exception of the Forsaken; between a new leader and the Night Elves hunting them down, they need to do some soul searching.

Writing is the one category Blizzard has consistently faltered in, but that might start to change. Blizzard hired the head writer for Cyberpunk 2077, but we don't know what they're working on.

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Spoiler

Wait the Warcheif role is completly abolished? (i thought it would go to Baine)

 

[Magnus]

Spoiler

Wait the Warcheif role is completly abolished? (i thought it would go to Baine)

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Spoiler

It appears to truly be abolished, at least for now. IIRC, the final cutscenes of 8.2.5 confirm the horde racial leaders saying as much.

 

[Finaj]

Spoiler

Wait the Warcheif role is completly abolished? (i thought it would go to Baine)

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Spoiler

It appears so: https://www.wowhead.com/news=295513...p-and-warchief-in-8-3-broadcast-text-spoilers

Lor'themar: The Alliance has sent word. They have agreed to the armistice. This bitter war is finally over.
Baine: At last we can begin to heal our wounded Earth Mother... and the wounded Horde as well.
Lor'themar: One question remains. Who will serve as warchief? Perhaps, you, Thrall, would--
Thrall: No. I told Saurfang I would not lead the Horde again.
Thrall: But perhaps the question is not who will become warchief... but whether there should be one at all.
Lor'themar: Though the Horde has changed through the years--for good or ill--our people have always looked to a warchief to guide us forward.
Baine: That legacy must end. The war nearly cost us everything. There is no place for a warchief in a time of peace.
Thrall: It is true--the Horde has changed. Our ranks have grown, and new voices have stepped forth to lead.
Thrall: This is what makes us strong. All of us, building a new future--together.

This is the one major story revelation regarding the Horde that I'm completely behind.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

The Horde and Alliance are idiots RUN by idiots, so I have no problem with Thrall making a decision without consulting them. It's not like Sylvanas has anyone's best interests at heart but her own.

 

[TheGamingNewsGuy]

The Horde and Alliance are idiots RUN by idiots, so I have no problem with Thrall making a decision without consulting them. It's not like Sylvanas has anyone's best interests at heart but her own.

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True, but let's be honest here - Slyvanas wanted Garrosh dead extremely badly. Hell if it was Varian was in Thrall's place with Garrosh having escaped justice...i am conflicted on if Varian would have allowed him to live (he maybe would)