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Oct 27, 2017
1,227
Blizzard isn't doing anything against human rights. Will you put your job on the line? As I said it's easy to take a stance when there's nothing on the line at the end of the day.

Oh and this has nothing to do with « don't criticize corporations », criticize Blizzard all you want while posting this on your smartphone/computer and using google's/apple's/microsoft's services to voice your discontent
I'd put more than my job on the line. If Blizzard China got shut down then it would amount to a net positive. I'd feel for the workers though. I wouldn't feel as sorry for all of them though. For example if you were responsible for punishing the casters and blitzchung, then I don't feel bad for you regardless of your position on the corporate ladder.

Saying it's easy to take a stance when your job isn't on the line is an argument for a boycott, not against. If you have little to lose then you should stick to what's right and spend your money elsewhere.
 

Deleted member 1190

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,663
A whole lot more screens can be seen over on wowhead




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Many more at the link
 

Tuorom

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,900
I think it looks fine?

The updated Reign of Chaos main menu is sweet. I want to see the infernals falling. gif me.
 

Mixen

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
207
Do you really think people will Boycott blizzard and skip Diablo 4, the new Overwatch game and Warcraft 3 Reforged? lmao
People will soon forget and forgive.

WC3 is one of my all time favourite games but now I will never buy another game from Blizzard.

Was looking forward to reforged and Diablo 4.
 

AlexFlame116

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 17, 2017
23,177
Utah
Man lots of people doing their absolute best to tell people off for boycotting something thats for a good purpose. We get it. You want the game.

On topic: I kinda like the new one more. But they should have done a 1 to 1 like they did with StarCraft Remastered.
 

CenturionNami

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 2, 2017
5,230
New Skins for heroes
Goel Thrall, King Arthas, Battle of Azeroth Jania, and Nightmare Cenarious
TdTOn1c.jpg
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,132
Hero skins? Hmmm, interesting. We did technically have instances of that in Warcraft 3, with stuff like Night Elf Illidan and then Demon Illidan. It looks like this time there'll be more of it.


I need to see King Arthas.
 

Cort

Member
Nov 4, 2017
4,352
Yuck, this is almost as bad as WoL's menu. SC:R had a fan-fucking-tastic lobby and they added the 1v1 ladder without disregard to the rest of the multiplayer experience. Here, the 1v1 ladder looks to be completely separate from the social/casual multiplayer lobby. It's very, very WoL-like and I would have hoped that they learned their lesson by now.
 
Nov 23, 2017
4,302
Do you think it makes for a good forum culture if everyone accused everyone else because of the games they like, or companies they buy from? And I am fairly sure that almost everyone here would be guilty of playing games from a company that has done something another user deems unethical at some point.

Pointing out that a company has done something in a thread makes sense. Attacking other users over it, not so much. And if you are yourself playing games from a company that has done or supported something bad, it is pretty hypocritical I'd say. In this thread alone, you can find some users who are talking about boycotting Blizzard (which again, they have every right to), and when you look a few posts down their history on ERA, you will see that their high moral standards only seem to apply very selectively.

your argument that people can't criticize one company or their criticism is invalid because "what about this other ethical standard I'm conveniently demanding of them to reach" is just deflection from the issue
 

Magnus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,357
I'm actually super-pumped about more current skins, themes, costumes, looks, etc. making their way into Reforged (as **options**). So pumped for this. Really hope it's out this year.
 

medyej

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,422
Nooo, the WC3 battle.net experience was probably the best of all of them, why change it? I dislike how they've been trying to de-emphasize the chat rooms and lobbies of the past b.net in favor of more private parties and matchmaking over time. The sense of community you got when logging in was almost completely gone in SC2 because of that. They shouldn't be hiding away the chat rooms for people to seek out, if they are worried about toxicity then they need to do stuff with moderation and tools to prevent it.
 
OP
OP
SuikerBrood

SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
15,487
Nooo, the WC3 battle.net experience was probably the best of all of them, why change it? I dislike how they've been trying to de-emphasize the chat rooms and lobbies of the past b.net in favor of more private parties and matchmaking over time. The sense of community you got when logging in was almost completely gone in SC2 because of that. They shouldn't be hiding away the chat rooms for people to seek out, if they are worried about toxicity then they need to do stuff with moderation and tools to prevent it.

This. 1000% this.
 

NathanS

Member
Dec 5, 2017
449
...do people think that Blizzard has the ability to overthrow the Chinese government?

Like, what's the win condition here?

They don't need to overthrow China, they just need to care more about people then making ALL the money. They won't because capitalism, but that doesn't change the fact that they are perfectly free to be happy with only making a shit ton of money.

Tencent only has five percent of their stock, that's not enough to tell Blizzard what to do. China is not forcing an otherwise virtuous company to do anything. They made this call of their own free will.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,644
I get the impression that not many people here stayed active in SC2, because most of the UI layout we're seeing so far mimics LotV-era SC2 closely. I happen to think that UI flows very well, and it's actually a lot more social than I expected and certainly more than SC2 ever was before, from my experience with it dumping me automatically into the chats for Co-op or Arcade when I switch to those respective selection screens. It's one of the better out-of-the-box chat designs out of Blizzard these days, if we're looking at it abstractly.

My concern with the WC3 screenshots we're seeing is that the UI elements—the boxes, the borders, the size of everything—are just way too chunky to accomplish what the current SC2 UI does: it has a fine balance where the commonly used buttons are extremely clear but everything text-heavy feels pretty lean. I get that they're going for that glorious animated chunkiness of the original WC3 client, which is highly satisfying to use to this day from an art/audio standpoint, but everything looks so crowded. Mind you, it looks like Wowhead's shots were taken at 1024x768, so maybe everything will look roomier at scale.

Man lots of people doing their absolute best to tell people off for boycotting something thats for a good purpose. We get it. You want the game.

On topic: I kinda like the new one more. But they should have done a 1 to 1 like they did with StarCraft Remastered.
I'm actually shocked so few people in this thread are boycotting. Disheartening

Let me offer another perspective as someone who has been extremely wrapped up in the Blizzard/China situation this week, practically to obsession, and who greatly appreciates your support. I've never been this involved or vocal about a games-and-politics issue in my life, and I usually stay far, far away from outrages big and small, justified or petty, when they show up on this board. Most of them, even the most notorious ones up to this point, felt low-stakes or overblown, or they involved publishers/developers with whom I never had any involvement anyway, so I thought I'd leave the activism to people who really had the energy and inclination to care.

Having seen this from both sides now: when you're really involved in pushing on a major issue like this, follow every development as it comes in, and voice your discontent to apply what pressure you can—it really does feel like the only story in the industry that matters, the thing that everything else revolves around. (And to be clear, I still believe this to be the case here.) But it's easy to lose sight of how you might be in a bubble, and how others out there might just see it from the outside as no more than one or two fast-moving threads. And when you peer outside of the bubble, it's tempting to be disheartened by the apparent apathy.

I think that's a bit of a trap, and that it's typically counterproductive to shame others who, for whatever reason, choose not to be open activists. The activism can afford to be the dominant conversation without also being a suffocating one.

So as important as this is to me, I'm not going to accuse anyone of shirking a moral duty. It's extremely difficult to ever believe that an individual contribution to a mass action like a boycott ever accomplishes everything other than assuaging your own conscience, until such time as the action actually gets results. I don't mind if others discuss the game unimpeded, and think they should; I just know that I'll be tempering my own complicity in promoting it, and supporting those who refund or pass on it. I won't be talking about Reforged without a massive asterisk on it until such time as Blizzard makes this right. Let's do what we can without our own means, within our own political will.

And from what I'm seeing elsewhere in places that are more popular hangouts for the Blizzard base (Era isn't one, I can tell you that for sure), for once the disgruntlement with Blizzard's actions and messaging really does seem to be the mainstream sentiment among those most involved with their product line, rather than the cry of a vocal minority that can't apply enough pressure to get anything done. I'm encouraged by that, and it's fine if we don't see the same anger and frustration from every voice in every corner.

Outrage, however justified and righteous it may be, is exhausting. And exhaustion is how you lose.

Do you think it makes for a good forum culture if everyone accused everyone else because of the games they like, or companies they buy from? And I am fairly sure that almost everyone here would be guilty of playing games from a company that has done something another user deems unethical at some point.

Pointing out that a company has done something in a thread makes sense. Attacking other users over it, not so much. And if you are yourself playing games from a company that has done or supported something bad, it is pretty hypocritical I'd say. In this thread alone, you can find some users who are talking about boycotting Blizzard (which again, they have every right to), and when you look a few posts down their history on ERA, you will see that their high moral standards only seem to apply very selectively.

As someone openly selective, I agree. We all have to pick our battles, and shouldn't pretend that everybody has the energy, attention, and sense of obligation to rally over everything. Many others standing next to me on the Hong Kong issue would not be pleased to know that I never stood with them over THQ or the controversial YouTuber of the week. Embrace the support when it's there; don't shame others around you when it's not.
 
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Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,396
Omg the Samwise Pandaren family art is in the game. I had that as my desktop wallpaper for yeaaarrs.
 

Sargerus

▲ Legend ▲
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
20,830
The timing of this "leak" is convenient to say the least.

Diablo 4 and next WoW xpac leaks soon?
 

Deleted member 1190

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,663
I won't be talking about Reforged without a massive asterisk on it until such time as Blizzard makes this right.

Forgive me for reducing your well written post down to just one line. But this in particular has me wanting to ask if Blizzard even can make it right at this point? Because at this point it doesn't seem like there is anything they can do, at all, to actually do right by everyone. The internet has already completely condemned them, and anything they do is just going to be met with incredible amounts of both skepticism and dismissal, regardless of how sincere it may or may not be.

The whole thing is already exhausting.

The timing of this "leak" is convenient to say the least.

Diablo 4 and next WoW xpac leaks soon?

This isn't really a leak. It's just datamining from their CDN. It's pretty common, and is nothing out of the norm. Most recent WoW stuff was already being datamined back on Monday, including hints at the next expansion.

There's enough for people to be upset at Blizzard about, lets not resort to conspiracy theories to try and find more.
 

Ryuelli

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,209
I understand where the boycotters are coming from, but Blizzard is a lot more than just the heads and I highly doubt all of the 4000+ employees agree with the message they're pushing. I'll be buying this because I know I wouldn't want my work tossed to the site just because my boss has horrible views. I'm sure a lot of love has gone into this, and I think it's fair to say that Blizzard isn't a monolith/hivemind.
 

Brutalitops

Member
Dec 6, 2017
1,251
Looks okay. Blizzard games will need to really impress me for me to buy them in future though. For example I won't buy Overwatch on Switch unless they add cross progression or play

By the way, it's 100% okay to boycott Blizzard. Just as it's 100% okay to not boycott them and continue playing.

There is a bit of shaming coming from some users towards people who choose the opposite choice to them and it's a bit gross really.
 

HarryDemeanor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,422
Looks fine. I didn't have a problem with how SCII handled chat. Seems like the way forward to take it these days. Either way I'm more interested in how well in looks in gameplay. Played the Culling of Stratholme scenario at last year's BlizzCon twice and it took me back through a nostalgia trip. Super excited about this.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,644
Forgive me for reducing your well written post down to just one line. But this in particular has me wanting to ask if Blizzard even can make it right at this point? Because at this point it doesn't seem like there is anything they can do, at all, to actually do right by everyone. The internet has already completely condemned them, and anything they do is just going to be met with incredible amounts of both skepticism and dismissal, regardless of how sincere it may or may not be.

I think we all understand that it would be totally impractical for Blizzard to actually take the bold stance against China that some of us really want. Their foothold in China is firmly planted (thanks in large part to WC3, in fact) and they've been cultivating their ties to that market for years. I also understand if people are open to considering the initial incident (the disciplinary action against Blitzchung) settled, given that Blitzchung himself has had a productive conversation with Blizzard representatives and is willing to consider his side of the matter closed.

In the short term, however, this isn't just about Blizzard being under the thumb of China, but their intellectual dishonesty about it. J Allen Brack's statement yesterday may have done more to prolong the conflict than resolve it. It's true that a lot of people will never be comfortable throwing money at them again no matter what they do, if they haven't outright uninstalled everything and deleted their accounts. But in my case—where I have a lot of Blizzard balance banked up from in-game activities and throwing money at them isn't the issue, the main thing they're losing from me is exposure and engagement, and I'm embedded enough in Blizzard-adjacent communities that I'd like to support external entities (like pro players or e-sports partner companies that run their own events) with a clear conscience—it would go a long, long way for them to issue a clear apology that acknowledges the legitimacy of the complaints instead of saying "See, this actually complies with our values if you squint just the right way," and specifically addresses/retracts that statement on Weibo that everyone has seen, which frames this as a matter of Chinese national dignity. They need to take ownership of having created a hostile environment instead of pretending they acted to keep it diverse and safe. I will also be watching for them to take a free hand with permitting pro-HK speech and symbols at BlizzCon and in their online services instead of applying it to chat/username censors that apply outside of China.

These are concrete and achievable in the here and now. We need to see some leadership here, some sign that they're willing to put themselves on the line in even the smallest and most realistic ways. There are a lot of customers they'll never get back, but they need to rebuild some trust and goodwill, and quickly. Any acceptable movement from them on this issue would risk blowback from China; of course it would. Reasonable people understand there are boundaries to what Blizzard can do. But their current statement reeks of active, fawning complicity.

I think it looks good!

Sorry boycotters, I will be buying this (and enjoying it)
I understand where the boycotters are coming from, but Blizzard is a lot more than just the heads and I highly doubt all of the 4000+ employees agree with the message they're pushing. I'll be buying this because I know I wouldn't want my work tossed to the site just because my boss has horrible views. I'm sure a lot of love has gone into this, and I think it's fair to say that Blizzard isn't a monolith/hivemind.

I won't judge either of you for this and I hope you enjoy the game. If this were about any other political issue on the planet, I might have been in your shoes.

But—even though it might seem like a drop in the bucket that doesn't achieve anything visible—might I recommend holding off on pre-ordering, since the game isn't available yet anyway. If Blizzard's leadership takes further steps to honestly acknowledge the damage they have done, between now and release, you can always reward them with an uptick in their metrics then. Remember that employees disgruntled with the leadership could also use this window to apply some pressure from within.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
1,227
User warned: antagonizing another member with hostile accusations
I understand where the boycotters are coming from, but Blizzard is a lot more than just the heads and I highly doubt all of the 4000+ employees agree with the message they're pushing. I'll be buying this because I know I wouldn't want my work tossed to the site just because my boss has horrible views. I'm sure a lot of love has gone into this, and I think it's fair to say that Blizzard isn't a monolith/hivemind.
Just admit that you don't care about what's going on with Blizzard, China, and Hong Kong. Lots of shitty organizations probably have good people. It doesn't mean you should support them. Especially if they're participating in the oppression of millions of people. Because that's what you're doing when you censor someone at the behest of of the Chinese communist party. There are so many game companies you could give your money to instead. Plenty of development studios make good games, have good workers, and don't act like Blizzard.

You just don't care.
 

Protoman200X

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
8,553
N. Vancouver, BC, Canada
Makes me wonder if they will ever remake the campaigns for Warcraft I & II with Reforge's assets. I've played Starcraft Remastered, and while I love the gameplay & OST, it wasn't exactly the most handsome looking game.

And I think the user interface for Reforge is fine? I'm failing to understand why there's a mixed reaction to what's been revealed.
 

Twig

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,486
I absolutely respect every individual's choice to not buy from certain companies. At the same time, I hope you also realize that you are very unlikely to find a major company (entertainment or otherwise) in this day and age that is not in some way putting money above principles, or bending to questionable politics.

So unless you want Era to turn into a forum where every thread about a big, publicly traded company ends after two posts cause somebody will point out something bad the company did, I think you may just have to avoid certain topics, and let those who want to talk about them do so. At least that's how I personally handle it.
Most companies don't take an EXPLICITLY PUBLIC stance in a huge way like Blizzard did, though. Supporting them now is FAR different than supporting them before we knew how they would handle this type of situation.

It's still up to the individual, of course, but responding to this with "yeah but all of capitalism tho" is missing the point entirely.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,644
Makes me wonder if they will ever remake the campaigns for Warcraft I & II with Reforge's assets. I've played Starcraft Remastered, and while I love the gameplay & OST, it wasn't exactly the most handsome looking game.

And I think the user interface for Reforge is fine? I'm failing to understand why there's a mixed reaction to what's been revealed.

Classic and modern Battle.net have a very different set of priorities, and it's inevitable that players who spent a ton of time with the old way might prefer it, especially if they're still playing non-remastered WC3 with the familiar lobby interface to this day.

It's not unlike the social gap between classic and retail WoW. In both cases, the modern iteration prioritizes cleanliness and matchmaking efficiency at the expense of communication with strangers and forming new social bonds. Likewise, custom lobbies in Blizzard games used to be wild and substantially player-driven—set the titles you like with the verbal house rules you like—whereas everything in the SC2/D3 era has been a tidier but more regimented experience where you're interacting more with the buttons and boxes than with other people.

Forming those bonds with strangers in chat was never part of my experience in SC1 and WC3 anyway, so I don't miss it, but players who got a lot of mileage out of the old way have been lamenting its loss for a decade now.
 
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Protoman200X

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
8,553
N. Vancouver, BC, Canada
Classic and modern Battle.net have a very different set of priorities, and it's inevitable that players who spent a ton of time with the old way might prefer it, especially if they're still playing non-remastered WC3 with the familiar lobby interface to this day.

It's not unlike the social gap between classic and retail WoW. In both cases, the modern iteration prioritizes cleanliness and matchmaking efficiency at the expense of communication with strangers and forming new social bonds. Likewise, custom lobbies in Blizzard games used to be wild and substantially player-driven—set the titles you like with the verbal house rules you like—whereas everything in the SC2/D3 era has been a tidier but more regimented experience where you're interacting more with the buttons and boxes than with other people.

Forming those bonds with strangers in chat was never part of my experience in SC1 and WC3 anyway, so I don't miss it, but players who got a lot of mileage out of the old way have been lamenting its loss for a decade now.

After your explanation, I can understand why older players would feel alienated with the SCII/DIII approach to Reforge's UI.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,644
After your explanation, I can understand why older players would feel alienated with the SCII/DIII approach to Reforge's UI.

To add to this, I think it's also worth noting that 1v1 RTS in particular can be a very lonely experience where you constantly feel like you're up against a wall, and a lot of people wipe out of 1v1 ladder play for that very reason. The old chat systems, where people could trade tips and strategies in faction-specific channels on the fly or arrange clans/coaching with each other, kept some players engaged where they otherwise might not have stayed.
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,132
Some of these new portraits are throwing me for a loop.


62YTkS3.jpg
QG0Vqt0.jpg



Is that a female Death Knight and a female Demon Hunter? Most of the portraits shown look pretty close to the original WC3 units, but I almost had no idea which units these portraits belonged to.

For reference, this is the Death Knight and Demon Hunter in the original WC3:

sLiuQ0R.gif
8qcpPyD.gif



If you can have male and female versions of the WC3 hero units through customization, then that would be really cool.
 

Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,396
Some of these new portraits are throwing me for a loop.


62YTkS3.jpg
QG0Vqt0.jpg



Is that a female Death Knight and a female Demon Hunter? Most of the portraits shown look pretty close to the original WC3 units, but I almost had no idea which units these portraits belonged to.

For reference, this is the Death Knight and Demon Hunter in the original WC3:

sLiuQ0R.gif
8qcpPyD.gif



If you can have male and female versions of the WC3 hero units through customization, then that would be really cool.
Well, in classic WC3 Illidan and Demon Hunters looked identical so the latter makes a lot of sense.

For Death Knights, I dunno. Their old look always looked like a benevolent smile so maybe they wanted to move away from that, and also introduce some more female units to the game.

Barring the China discourse for a minute, it does make me curious to see where Blizzard is going with the new designs. SC remastered looked kinda soulless, but I think WC3 remaster is retaining a lot more of the original game's personality.
 

Deleted member 1190

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,663
Some of these new portraits are throwing me for a loop.


62YTkS3.jpg
QG0Vqt0.jpg



Is that a female Death Knight and a female Demon Hunter? Most of the portraits shown look pretty close to the original WC3 units, but I almost had no idea which units these portraits belonged to.

For reference, this is the Death Knight and Demon Hunter in the original WC3:

sLiuQ0R.gif
8qcpPyD.gif



If you can have male and female versions of the WC3 hero units through customization, then that would be really cool.

You can! They actually announced it as part of the reveal last year. It wont be every hero/unit, but there will be variants for some, DK's and DH's being some of them.

Warcraft_III_Reforged_-_Female_demon_hunter_concept_art.jpeg
 

monketron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,839
Looks fantastic. Was not impressed with the SC remaster, was more of a enhancement patch. They seem to be doing a proper re-do of all the graphical assets for this. WC3 holds a special place for me can't wait to play the campaigns again.
 

Protoman200X

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
8,553
N. Vancouver, BC, Canada
Looks fantastic. Was not impressed with the SC remaster, was more of a enhancement patch. They seem to be doing a proper re-do of all the graphical assets for this. WC3 holds a special place for me can't wait to play the campaigns again.

In the case for Starcraft: Remastered, that wasn't the point. They wanted to preserve the gameplay mechanics & visuals of the original game 1:1, in addition to the remaster being able to run on the current iteration of Battle.net. There's also the fact that the original StarCraft/Broodwar has issues running on modern operating systems, so it doesn't surprise me that the primary market is to make the remaster for the SC1 tournament folk (which still runs in Korea) look & run nicer when streamed.
 
OP
OP
SuikerBrood

SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
15,487
Classic and modern Battle.net have a very different set of priorities, and it's inevitable that players who spent a ton of time with the old way might prefer it, especially if they're still playing non-remastered WC3 with the familiar lobby interface to this day.

It's not unlike the social gap between classic and retail WoW. In both cases, the modern iteration prioritizes cleanliness and matchmaking efficiency at the expense of communication with strangers and forming new social bonds. Likewise, custom lobbies in Blizzard games used to be wild and substantially player-driven—set the titles you like with the verbal house rules you like—whereas everything in the SC2/D3 era has been a tidier but more regimented experience where you're interacting more with the buttons and boxes than with other people.

Forming those bonds with strangers in chat was never part of my experience in SC1 and WC3 anyway, so I don't miss it, but players who got a lot of mileage out of the old way have been lamenting its loss for a decade now.

That's how I feel after playing this game for 15 years. The old chat systems have given me so much. Wheras that wasnt the case in sc2