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Oct 27, 2017
6,960
If users weren't review bombing the title, they'd be leaving 3's or 4's or a score that's accurately representative of the project quality.

In your own system: if people can vote 10 for the products that aren't perfect, then you shouldn't expect people to vote reasonable to the products that are crap.

At some point you gotta accept that the user score is the user score. You are not bound by any rules when scoring the product. Lob a 10, lob a 0, you cannot be wrong.
 

Golvellius

Banned
Dec 3, 2017
1,304
Hopefully this will convince them to release the game on Xbox (which officially supports mouse & keyboard).
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,424
'm sure there are some users that bombed this review because they hate blizzard or wanted to join in, but many of the reviews are definitely coming in from buyers since a lot of them cite blizzard giving them trouble when it comes to refunds.
There is genuinely no proof that these are genuine stories and not just people pretending to have bought the game for the sake of shitting on blizzard and yes people can be that petty and immature. Like, remember the history major who had studied WW2 since he was five years old who felt that calling him uneducated was the LAST straw and how many people took that at face value because fuck the company in question for having a woman in their WW2 game trailer.
EmBAj30.png
 

Secretofmateria

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,424
Lol nah bad shit needs to be called out, of course i would prefer if most of the user reviews were genuine though. I imagine its a lot of people who just want to be part of the controversy conversation
 

Lashley

<<Tag Here>>
Member
Oct 25, 2017
60,129
"It's the only way customers can have their voices heard"

Vote with your wallet. Companies don't care about this shit when they already have your money.
 

gamegod7

Banned
Jan 29, 2020
6
There is genuinely no proof that these are genuine stories and not just people pretending to have bought the game for the sake of shitting on blizzard and yes people can be that petty and immature. Like, remember the history major who had studied WW2 since he was five years old who felt that calling him uneducated was the LAST straw and how many people took that at face value because fuck the company in question for having a woman in their WW2 game trailer.
EmBAj30.png

I mean I think the frustration with BFWWII was that EA was telling us the consumers that we are uneducated and we do not know a thing about history when people are obviously tired of these companies shoving in characters for the sake of diversity. Let alone this chick who was fighting for the nazis of all groups and had a robot arm??? For a company that marketed the BF series as a historically accurate franchise, this was pretty ridiculous. its not about the woman in the trailer. its the principal of it and more about how EA reacted than anything. this one bad post by some dude who actually didn't know what he was talking about was followed up by several others who actually did later on during that time via reddit,twitter,etc.


people like YongYea have posted videos citing several instances on the forums of posts getting deleted by mods concerning refunds and other critiques of the game itself. There isnt a reason that this many people that would go out of their way to post on the forums about refund help if blizzard was actually helping these people or if these stories were made of. its just way too many different cases with specific critiques about the game.
 

Bruceleeroy

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,381
Orange County
There is genuinely no proof that these are genuine stories and not just people pretending to have bought the game for the sake of shitting on blizzard and yes people can be that petty and immature. Like, remember the history major who had studied WW2 since he was five years old who felt that calling him uneducated was the LAST straw and how many people took that at face value because fuck the company in question for having a woman in their WW2 game trailer.
EmBAj30.png

This is so crazy. Wtf is wrong with people
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,424
I mean I think the frustration with BFWWII was that EA was telling us the consumers that we are uneducated and we do not know a thing about history when people are obviously tired of these companies shoving in characters for the sake of diversity. Let alone this chick who was fighting for the nazis of all groups and had a robot arm???
She wasn't fighting for the nazis and yes prosthetics existed during WW2. And yes, diversity for diversity's sake is a positive thing and anyone who thinks otherwise can kindly fuck off because they subconsciously or overtly treat white skin as the default while everything outside of white has to justify their existence in media. There was NO valid justified reason for the BF outrage, it was just the gaming community being sexist as fuck, again. 🤷‍♂️

For a company that marketed the BF series as a historically accurate franchise, this was pretty ridiculous.
They never advertised the series as historically accurate. It was always a comicbook hollywood adaptation of war. With the graphics looking a realistic as possible and actual gun sound effects being used to make it more immersive. However, literally even as far back as the first battlefield total realism was not the goal, BF was always arcadey as fuck. If you can tolerate any of the gifs below, or even multiple guns not having the right attachments, ammo counts, etc. let alone ANY of the absolutely crazy shit that happens in any given BF match as a result of the gameplay sandbox intentionally being as arcadey as possible with surface value realism then you can tolerate a woman on the battlefield.

its not about the woman in the trailer.
Yes it is. Because historical accuracy never came up when this shit happened, in fact, historical accuracy was never apart of the conversation specifically until they added women.
giphy.gif

8a02384485f9a619389de31b943326ad.gif

uU9DBHU.gif

main-qimg-b935d8af80051e78f095a7b2028b8475



its the principal of it
The principal of "i'm not a sexist BUT"

people like YongYea have posted videos citing several instances on the forums of posts getting deleted by mods concerning refunds and other critiques of the game itself.
People like Yongyea literally have an entire career centered around gamer outrage, that does not legitimize the toxicity of user review bombing.
 

Razorrin

Member
Nov 7, 2017
5,236
the HELP Menu.
"It's the only way customers can have their voices heard"

Vote with your wallet. Companies don't care about this shit when they already have your money.

Voting with you wallet doesn't work when it's invisible and indistinguishable from not saying or doing anything at all. No one cares if you decide to buy or not buy a game, but at the very least you contribute to the negative perception of something you feel is harming the industry or deserves negative press by posting a negative review and talking about it.

I'm not gonna say that Review Bombing is the right or wrong answer, but at least it is one.

"Vote with your wallet" is a meaningless phrase designed to shut down conversation or action, and we should all be more aware of that and avoid saying it, and advocate actual awareness and cooperation.
 

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
Forbes has some of the worst gaming articles and its been that way for years.
 

Dust

C H A O S
Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,422
I never touched Warcraft but how did the remaster ruin the original game?
Did it overwrite the client or something?
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,243
More like scores are bullshit. User reviews at the very least generally point towards people being positive or upset about a game which can sometimes be absolutely worthless to know or in the case of wc3 can be really useful to know to look deeper.
I never touched Warcraft but how did the remaster ruin the original game?
Did it overwrite the client or something?
kind of as I understand you can't play the original from the client anymore it's just an updated version that has either no access or access to the upgraded visuals but the new version has new problems not present in the old version.

There is apparently a workaround to still get the old version running but I don't know much about that.
 

Razorrin

Member
Nov 7, 2017
5,236
the HELP Menu.
I never touched Warcraft but how did the remaster ruin the original game?
Did it overwrite the client or something?
Overwrote the client, erasing two decades of custom content made by the fan community, the kind of stuff that led to Dota, it locked almost all options for gameplay and graphics behind "gotta buy ReForged to change these" prompts, and a huge amount more, including lies before release about the scope of changes they were implementing, and taking ownership over all future fan content.

It's pretty severe, and highly deserving of scorn, especially since it ruined the original game regardless if you touched Reforged.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,424
Voting with you wallet doesn't work when it's invisible and indistinguishable from not saying or doing anything at all. No one cares if you decide to buy or not buy a game, but at the very least you contribute to the negative perception of something you feel is harming the industry or deserves negative press by posting a negative review and talking about it.

I'm not gonna say that Review Bombing is the right or wrong answer, but at least it is one.

"Vote with your wallet" is a meaningless phrase designed to shut down conversation or action, and we should all be more aware of that and avoid saying it, and advocate actual awareness and cooperation.
Engaging with some of the more toxic behavior of the gaming community does more harm than it does good. Nothing about leaving a 0/10 on a user review along with angry comments, a ton of whom didn't even buy the game and made an account specifically to review bomb:
9hrTEBX.png


Like, I hate games like Agony and Hatred, that doesn't mean I left a 0/10 review score on metacritic.
 

low-G

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,144
Pretty galling to point out the problem with user reviews on Reforged when the critic reviews of Reforged are particularly problematic. It is the poster child for shills and corruption in games reviewing.
 

gamegod7

Banned
Jan 29, 2020
6
User banned (permanent): troll account
She wasn't fighting for the nazis and yes prosthetics existed during WW2. And yes, diversity for diversity's sake is a positive thing and anyone who thinks otherwise can kindly fuck off because they subconsciously or overtly treat white skin as the default while everything outside of white has to justify their existence in media. There was NO valid justified reason for the BF outrage, it was just the gaming community being sexist as fuck, again. 🤷‍♂️


They never advertised the series as historically accurate. It was always a comicbook hollywood adaptation of war. With the graphics looking a realistic as possible and actual gun sound effects being used to make it more immersive. However, literally even as far back as the first battlefield total realism was not the goal, BF was always arcadey as fuck. If you can tolerate any of the gifs below, or even multiple guns not having the right attachments, ammo counts, etc. let alone ANY of the absolutely crazy shit that happens in any given BF match as a result of the gameplay sandbox intentionally being as arcadey as possible with surface value realism then you can tolerate a woman on the battlefield.


Yes it is. Because historical accuracy never came up when this shit happened, in fact, historical accuracy was never apart of the conversation specifically until they added women.
giphy.gif

8a02384485f9a619389de31b943326ad.gif

uU9DBHU.gif

main-qimg-b935d8af80051e78f095a7b2028b8475




The principal of "i'm not a sexist BUT"


People like Yongyea literally have an entire career centered around gamer outrage, that does not legitimize the toxicity of user review bombing.

diversity for diversity sake is ok? If you are part of a marginalized group and there is a game where a character is added purely for their skin color/sexuality, how does that make the product better? and besides, wouldn't you want the character to be added in a more meaningful way? I didnt really have a problem with the female being in game, but it just didnt match up at all with the world war II aesthetics. Things being added just to fill in a checkbox isnt a good thing. Its just a way for companies to look good and have these marginalized groups rally around them. If people really feel that strongly about diversity in their games, then maybe they should look into tabletop RPGs where you can be whatever you want. Or they should try and create their own gaming experience instead of having it be shoehorned into other long established franchises.

as for the clips well... kinda isnt battlefield without all these things is it? it is a game after all. But I think if they were add things like laser guns, UFOs and space battles, I think people would have a lot of the same complaints as they did for the woman in the trailer.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,960
They never advertised the series as historically accurate. It was always a comicbook hollywood adaptation of war. With the graphics looking a realistic as possible and actual gun sound effects being used to make it more immersive. However, literally even as far back as the first battlefield total realism was not the goal, BF was always arcadey as fuck. If you can tolerate any of the gifs below, or even multiple guns not having the right attachments, ammo counts, etc. let alone ANY of the absolutely crazy shit that happens in any given BF match as a result of the gameplay sandbox intentionally being as arcadey as possible with surface value realism then you can tolerate a woman on the battlefield.

Here is the timeline because you seem to misremember how the events unraveled:
• Announcement
• Outrage from historical buffs
• Comment that it is plausible and people are uneducated
• Meltdown because he was factually wrong and calling others uneducated

It is a historical fact: there were no women soldiers on the British or German armies, especially frontlines. The meltdown happened because Soderland took the position that it was both plausible historically and it is just the game:

The common perception is that there were no women in World War II. There were a ton of women who both fought in World War II and partook in the war. These are people who are uneducated—they don't understand that this is a plausible scenario, and listen: this is a game
 

asmith906

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,453
This is one of the games I think deserves to be review bombed considering it actually made a 20 year old game worse whether you bought the remaster or not. Also they updated the language after 20 years to say that now they now outright own EVERYTHING modded related.
 

Razorrin

Member
Nov 7, 2017
5,236
the HELP Menu.
Engaging with some of the more toxic behavior of the gaming community does more harm than it does good. Nothing about leaving a 0/10 on a user review along with angry comments, a ton of whom didn't even buy the game and made an account specifically to review bomb:
9hrTEBX.png


Like, I hate games like Agony and Hatred, that doesn't mean I left a 0/10 review score on metacritic.

If you don't like a game for strong reasons and want to be involved, and don't like review bombing, don't do it. I didn't advocate for reviewbombing in my post, I said it was at least something that said something.

Try to look for opportunities to spread the word on thoughtful criticism of something you believe to be harmful. You don't have to reviewbomb, and you can say it's bad, but just saying it's bad, therefore my work here is done isn't helpful to the conversation.
 

Dalik

Member
Nov 1, 2017
3,528
diversity for diversity sake is ok?
Yes? In the same way you dont have to have a reason to put a straight white male in a game, you can do that for minorities as well.
We dont want to have "reasons", we just want "decent" representation in media, its not that difficult to grasp.
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
It's a review bomb by an audience that largely hasn't purchased/played the title.
So when I know of all the shit they pulled with this game, objectively worse content due to cut features and other nonsense, and then I give it a bad review, it doesn't count because I didn't buy the game? Get lost with this nonsense lol.
 

gamegod7

Banned
Jan 29, 2020
6
mmmh.

mmmmmh.

MMMMMMH.
?? whats this issue? is female offensive now?

no wonder everyone roasts the people on this website. This whole thread is filled with so much outrage about how gamers are entitiled. Is it too much to ask for a complete product with promises being kept and functionality being kept the same or improved? Is it not frustrating for a remake of a 10+ year old game to be somehow WORSE than the original?

But yeah. GaMeR OuTRaGe
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
Engaging with some of the more toxic behavior of the gaming community does more harm than it does good. Nothing about leaving a 0/10 on a user review along with angry comments, a ton of whom didn't even buy the game and made an account specifically to review bomb:
9hrTEBX.png


Like, I hate games like Agony and Hatred, that doesn't mean I left a 0/10 review score on metacritic.
You hate games like Agony and Hatred for entirely different reasons than people disliking Reforged. Some of these folks had one of their favourite childhood games they still play to this day destroyed, and you go in here acting like leaving a 0 on metacritic is somehow "toxic", because they didn't buy the turd before giving the number. Guess what, most of the people giving this game shit already owned WC3 and just got forced to download the shittier version, unable to play the old one.

Give me a break.
?? whats this issue? is female offensive now?

no wonder everyone roasts the people on this website. This whole thread is filled with so much outrage about how gamers are entitiled. Is it too much to ask for a complete product with promises being kept and functionality being kept the same or improved? Is it not frustrating for a remake of a 10+ year old game to be somehow WORSE than the original?

But yeah. GaMeR OuTRaGe
When you use it in place of when you could as well have said woman then you sound like an incel. "Female developer" isn't the same as "she is a female"
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,424
diversity for diversity sake is ok? If you are part of a marginalized group and there is a game where a character is added purely for their skin color/sexuality, how does that make the product better?
Because it means that people are included. PoC exist in real life, thus, PoC can exist in media without some explicit lore reason to make people more comfortable with the idea of PoC.
I didnt really have a problem with the female being in game
Why do you talk like this?

and besides, wouldn't you want the character to be added in a more meaningful way?
Which they also did do:


I don't know what you expect out of a multiplayer match. A character model that happens to be a woman does not need to be justified.

but it just didnt match up at all with the world war II aesthetics.
It matched just as much as all the weapons that soldiers during the war didn't actually carry and all the vehicles that weren't actually used. But please tell me more about "muh historical accuracy." 👀

Things being added just to fill in a checkbox isnt a good thing. Its just a way for companies to look good and have these marginalized groups rally around them. If people really feel that strongly about diversity in their games, then maybe they should look into tabletop RPGs where you can be whatever you want. Or they should try and create their own gaming experience instead of having it be shoehorned into other long established franchises.
How about you self reflect on why you think that white male is the default and that everything else is either filling in checkbox and/or must have some reason to exist. Or that if people want diversity then the only option is tabletop RPGs and not, modern video games.


Here is the timeline because you seem to misremember how the events unraveled:
• Announcement
• Outrage from historical buffs
• Comment that it is plausible and people are uneducated
• Meltdown because he was factually wrong and calling others uneducated

It is a historical fact: there were no women soldiers on the British or German armies, especially frontlines. The meltdown happened because Soderland took the position that it was both plausible historically and it is just the game:
There is nothing wrong about that statement. There IS a common perception that no women participated in WW2, there were women who fought and participated in the war. And yes, the "history buffs from UCLA" were showing their asses.

If you don't like a game for strong reasons and want to be involved, and don't like review bombing, don't do it. I didn't advocate for reviewbombing in my post, I said it was at least something that said something.

Try to look for opportunities to spread the word on thoughtful criticism of something you believe to be harmful. You don't have to reviewbomb, and you can say it's bad, but just saying it's bad, therefore my work here is done isn't helpful to the conversation.
You literally just described review bombing. Which starts and ends at "here's my review saying it sucks, and my arbitrary score, my work here is done." At least from the reasonable people who don't say....send the development team death threats.
 
Nov 14, 2017
4,928
Engaging with some of the more toxic behavior of the gaming community does more harm than it does good. Nothing about leaving a 0/10 on a user review along with angry comments, a ton of whom didn't even buy the game and made an account specifically to review bomb:
9hrTEBX.png


Like, I hate games like Agony and Hatred, that doesn't mean I left a 0/10 review score on metacritic.
Like, the review you posted literally said why they are rating it 0 - because Blizzard deleted classic WC3 because of this remaster. That's a totally legit reason to get upset and rate this game 0.

When has any dev ever made a remaster so bad it deleted the original game? It's unprecedented.
 

gamegod7

Banned
Jan 29, 2020
6
Yes? In the same way you dont have to have a reason to put a straight white male in a game, you can do that for minorities as well.
We dont want to have "reasons", we just want "decent" representation in media, its not that difficult to grasp.
if you want "decent" representation, why do you tolerate games just shoehorning in characters mainly because of their skin color? Why not support creators of games that make these characters with more complexity?

So many games do this and the masses Era praise them for being 'brave' when its just another game model. I support having diversity if its to help enrich the game. Otherwise, its all up the developer's discretion
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,424
You hate games like Agony and Hatred for entirely different reasons than people disliking Reforged. Some of these folks had one of their favourite childhood games they still play to this day destroyed, and you go in here acting like leaving a 0 on metacritic is somehow "toxic", because they didn't buy the turd before giving the number. Guess what, most of the people giving this game shit already owned WC3 and just got forced to download the shittier version, unable to paly the old one.

Give me a break.
I absolutely understand the reasons people are angry, I'm not defending the game at all, or even Blizzard. I just don't agree that review bombing is an effective way of sending a message. Which is what the article is about, about review bombing in and of itself.

When has any dev ever made a remaster so bad it deleted the original game? It's unprecedented.
Like I said, a very valid reason to be angry.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,424
If you want "decent" representation, why do you tolerate games just shoehorning in characters
Why do you anything but white males to be shoehorning?

Why not support creators of games that make these characters with more complexity?
Should PoC and women characters in multiple player matches have an animation where they stop everything they're doing to tell the audience why they exist in this particular scenario?
 

Prefty

Banned
Jun 4, 2019
887
If this is what it takes for them to fix this mess for both the original and this remaster so be it
 

Arkanim94

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,153
if you want "decent" representation, why do you tolerate games just shoehorning in characters mainly because of their skin color? Why not support creators of games that make these characters with more complexity?

So many games do this and the masses Era praise them for being 'brave' when its just another game model. I support having diversity if its to help enrich the game. Otherwise, its all up the developer's discretion
then why are you bitching about so called "forced diversity"?
 
Nov 14, 2017
4,928
I absolutely understand the reasons people are angry, I'm not defending the game at all, or even Blizzard. I just don't agree that review bombing is an effective way of sending a message. Which is what the article is about, about review bombing in and of itself.


Like I said, a very valid reason to be angry.
Ok, so why call out a review bomber who was angry about their game being ruined? Like, what other outlet do people have? If this was just a bad remaster then yea, gamer outrage, everyone chill, etc. In this case though, everyone who owned classic WC3 and had their game deleted has every right to be mad.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,846
Pointing out bullshit can be done in a way that isn't bullshit itself.

To some degree, stuff like user reviews are one of the few examples of consumer agency in a way that (they think) can directly affect a bottom line.

I don't know how much that is true, and the obvious extension of that is said reviews can be gamed for any reason. But the reason it keeps happening is obvious.

Even if that were the case, those leaving user reviews are using the entire grading scale as a binary choice between leaving a 0 and a 10.

There is no valid reason for a reason to leave a 0 on any functional product unless to use it as a voice of protest or boycott (which means they wouldn't have made a valid purchase).

If users weren't review bombing the title, they'd be leaving 3's or 4's or a score that's accurately representative of the project quality.

Steam user reviews from valid purchases are more viable even with a simple do/do not recommend option.

Here's the problem—user research done on rating systems shows that it often does boil down to binary choices. You're better off embracing that.
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
I absolutely understand the reasons people are angry, I'm not defending the game at all, or even Blizzard. I just don't agree that review bombing is an effective way of sending a message. Which is what the article is about, about review bombing in and of itself.


Like I said, a very valid reason to be angry.
What other way is there when even not buying the game, a.k.a voting with your wallet, doesn't stop them from fucking up your already made purchase? Complaining about things on twitter is "toxic" or "harassing game devs", making threads on Reddit is too appearantly, and now leaving 0s on Metacritic is "toxic" as well.

Please tell me what other ways there are except writing threads on Era that barely anyone will read. That article is pure junk.
 

Dalik

Member
Nov 1, 2017
3,528
if you want "decent" representation, why do you tolerate games just shoehorning in characters mainly because of their skin color? Why not support creators of games that make these characters with more complexity?

So many games do this and the masses Era praise them for being 'brave' when its just another game model. I support having diversity if its to help enrich the game. Otherwise, its all up the developer's discretion
We can have both, when you see a white male character, whether it is a good character or not, do you question why it was chose as that? no, you dont. Why does it have to be different for PoC or non-straight etc


The fact that you don't understand that having minorities in games matters for them tells that you take for granted something that other people dont have, of course you don't care if you are already being represented in 99,99% of games. People are sick of not existing in medias.