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Warcraft 3 Reforged "downgraded" (from Blizzcon 2018 show)

IMBCIT

IMBCIT

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,066
Fudgepuppy said:
You want people to become unemployed because their bosses' bosses made bad decisions?

I'm not a game developer, but if I got the chance to work on Overwatch, I would love to. You can't really tell those people "I know you have a dream and all, but you can't for moral reasons".

It's like saying 100% of the people employed by FOX News are despicable and represent the company in its entirety.

A job's a job, and AFAIK, Blizzard is a pretty good employer. For certain people, it's about stability.

Have some class consciousness man.
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As someone who works for a company whose owners/executives are quite shit people in regards to many social issues I agree with this.

With a wife and 2 little girls who rely on me for most of our income and all of our benefits I just can't call it quits no matter how much I disagree with and don't support a lot of the companies policies and causes they support.

Shit sucks.
 
Gxgear

Gxgear

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,160
Vancouver
Game looks rough just based on streams. Even the updated models lost the personality the original had. Visibility seems to be an issue too. During early access everyone thought that they're still working on it (and yes there were improvements), but it really did end up more or less the same.

All I wanted was the original game on the bnet client...
 
Kintaro

Kintaro

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,331
So it seems like the "no changes" people screwed it up for everyone? Or was it just lack of funding for the project?
 
Disclaimer

Disclaimer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,528
Kintaro said:
So it seems like the "no changes" people screwed it up for everyone? Or was it just lack of funding for the project?
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The latter. It clearly had its budget and personnel slashed shortly after unveiling. The "purists" were a convenient excuse—just look at the poor state of the game in every other way. It wasn't even ready to be launched over a year after unveiling—after a delay—with minimal changes.
 
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Dezzy

Dezzy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,435
USA
Did Blizzard outsource this at all? And wasn't StarCraft Remastered outsourced in some way? I could be remembering wrong.

I think that making sure this was compatible with classic Warcraft III limited what they could do with it. They should just make Warcraft 4 already.
 
Protoman200X

Protoman200X

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
8,560
N. Vancouver, BC, Canada
Dr. Ludwig

Dr. Ludwig

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,521
I'll admit I'm not one to be "outraged" about downgrades in games. I understand that shit can happen behind the scenes that can cause all kinds of messes with development.

But I'm honestly looking at this release at a whole and what's been posted and all I think of is "What the flying fuck happened behind the scenes with this game?" This isn't some mid-tier studio with financial problems and strict deadlines. This is motherfucking Blizzard of all development houses.

The fact they also fucked with the original releases makes it more egregious.
 
Zem

Zem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,970
United Kingdom
Those cutscenes (and well, everything else) are such a huge downgrade that I'm almost certain this had nothing to do with the actual devs skills but a budget thing. Like at some point some business person came in and just told them that the budget was cut severely and they had to work with what they had.
 

Deleted member 3208

Oct 25, 2017
11,934
AJ_Wings said:
I'll admit I'm not one to be "outraged" about downgrades in games. I understand that shit can happen behind the scenes that can cause all kinds of messes with development.

But I'm honestly looking at this release at a whole and what's been posted and all I think of is "What the flying fuck happened behind the scenes with this game?" This isn't some mid-tier studio with financial problems and strict deadlines. This is motherfucking Blizzard of all development houses.

The fact they also fucked with the original releases makes it more egregious.
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This is what angered me the most. As long as they allowed people to continue playing the 'classic' Warcraft III, everything would be fine... Well, people would still complain, but at least you still had the option of going back.

But Blizzard, being arrogant as always, removed the classic installer unless you own the disks.
 
Slaythe

Slaythe

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,851
Linkark07 said:
This is what angered me the most. As long as they allowed people to continue playing the 'classic' Warcraft III, everything would be fine... Well, people would still complain, but at least you still had the option of going back.

But Blizzard, being arrogant as always, removed the classic installer unless you own the disks.
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No, no no.

Them doing a poor job and releasing a disappointing "remaster" is one thing.

Them actually using footage of a version of the game that simply does not exist, to promote the game, to this day, is not acceptable.

This was never going to be okay because it's actually malicious.
 
Wamb0wneD

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
brokeastronaut said:
Lol probably. They ran the numbers and figured it wasn't worth it.
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Yeah it's sad but likely. There were some stories about how Activision is trying to place its people in Blizzards higher ranks to get more control over how they make games and spend their budget. Also this:
PyroPaperPlanes said:
On the topic of Blizzard, Luke (from Linus Tech Tips) had this hilariously depressing story about his recent "experience" with their customer service:

(Jump to 56:15)



Link: https://youtu.be/cxjhTVR_dJw?t=56m15s

Blizzard just isn't the same company anymore. Even my work colleagues are finally done with their BS and are moving on once their WoW subscription expires.
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This is ridiculous lol. I remember when I had a nice small chats with Blizz support folks about the weather or what their favourite custom maps in WC3 are.

Shit has gone downhill so goddamn hard I can barely believe it.
 

Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
Wamb0wneD said:
Yeah it's sad but likely. There were some stories about how Activision is trying to place its people in Blizzards higher ranks to get more control over how they make games and spend their budget. Also this:

This is ridiculous lol. I remember when I had a nice small chats with Blizz support folks about the weather or what their favourite custom maps in WC3 are.

Shit has gone downhill so goddamn hard I can barely believe it.
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They really are a shadow of their former selves. Sucks because I used to love Blizzard games very much.
 

Deleted member 3208

Oct 25, 2017
11,934
Slaythe said:
No, no no.

Them doing a poor job and releasing a disappointing "remaster" is one thing.

Them actually using footage of a version of the game that simply does not exist, to promote the game, to this day, is not acceptable.

This was never going to be okay because it's actually malicious.
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Well, at least people can refund... Unless I'm wrong.
 
Wamb0wneD

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
brokeastronaut said:
They really are a shadow of their former selves. Sucks because I used to love Blizzard games very much.
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Same man. :/ WC3 and Diablo2 are part of my childhood. And those first two years of WoW...I miss them.
Karlinel said:
I would say that Blizzard has a loooong record of beloved IP's. Haven't played reforged yet, but they sure made things people love, you are a bit too harsh.
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Emphasis on made. Why should I praise them for stuff the people in charge today weren't even part of? The last game that I felt like it was something old Blizzard would do was Overwatch at launch. I look at their current output and outside of maybe Diablo 4 I see nothing that strikes me at something old Blizzard would be happy with putting out, and even Diablo 4 is a big fat question mark as of now.
 
SchrodingerC

SchrodingerC

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,860
It's incredible how ActiBlizz managed to make a 2010 mobile game for 2020. The higher ups figured a shoestring budget is good enough for one of their legacy games.

Messing with the classic version is just the cherry on top for this embarrassment.
 
monketron

monketron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,856
If you're not going to do something properly, don't do it at all. I hate to bring up 'old Blizzard' memes but they would never have allowed this out the door in the past. Sure, they've released buggy content, but it was always of the most amazing quality. How did they not look at this and just say 'nope, it's not good enough for a Blizzard game'. I guess those days really are out the window now, release no matter what and keep those fat shareholders happy.

They denied my automated refund, so I've made a ticket to do it manually. 24 hours to reply apparently, they really must be getting rammed.

What hurts most is how hyped I was for this. WC3 was THE game for me back in the day, a properly done 2019/2020 remake would have been so amazing to play. What a let down.
 
Kintaro

Kintaro

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,331
I mean how does getting rid of the new UI in favor of the old UI make financial sense? This doesn't make any financial sense. Some of these changes definitely seem to be to please the purists. The cutscenes are also a lot closer to the original WC3 compared to what was showed in 2018, so those could also be catering to the purists, but I can see how that would be a budgetary issue. It kind of sucks that Blizzard missed a huge opportunity here, should have been two completely different games, in turn of game engines. I think them making the original and the Reforged compatible really limited them to what they could do.

I also saw a screenshot where Thrall looked like an old model, is that legit?
 
MrH

MrH

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
3,995
God I remember when Blizzard meant quality and now they're just shit. I'm just wondering how they'll fuck up Diablo 4.
 
ScOULaris

ScOULaris

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,617
I'm having a hard time discerning how badly Reforged fucked over the previously huge, thriving custom games scene for WC3. From some things I'm reading it sounds like a SHIT TON of maps no longer work for various reasons. Is that true?

If so, that is the single worst thing to have happened as a result of this release. That's unforgivable IMO.
 
diablogg

diablogg

Member
Oct 31, 2017
3,269
ScOULaris said:
I'm having a hard time discerning how badly Reforged fucked over the previously huge, thriving custom games scene for WC3. From some things I'm reading it sounds like a SHIT TON of maps no longer work for various reasons. Is that true?

If so, that is the single worst thing to have happened as a result of this release. That's unforgivable IMO.
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Yea they totally revamped the engine and world editor, rendering alot of old custom games unplayable unless old map authors came back and tried to fix their maps.
 
ScOULaris

ScOULaris

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,617
diablogg said:
Yea they totally revamped the engine and world editor, rendering alot of old custom games unplayable unless old map authors came back and tried to fix their maps.
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Man. I don't even know what to say.

SC: Remastered did end up breaking some maps that utilized EUD's (a hacky quirk of the old client), but to their credit they eventually implemented an official fix that allowed a good chunk of them to work again. Now there are only a small handful of older maps that no longer work post-Remastered.

It is IMPERATIVE that they fix this given how it effectively ruined WC3 for everyone, even those who didn't want the remaster.
 
diablogg

diablogg

Member
Oct 31, 2017
3,269
ScOULaris said:
Man. I don't even know what to say.

SC: Remastered did end up breaking some maps that utilized EUD's (a hacky quirk of the old client), but to their credit they eventually implemented an official fix that allowed a good chunk of them to work again. Now there are only a small handful of older maps that no longer work post-Remastered.

It is IMPERATIVE that they fix this given how it effectively ruined WC3 for everyone, even those who didn't want the remaster.
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There's a hell of a lot less motivation for authors to fix their maps now that Blizzard has updated the World Editor EULA to basically state anything created in the WE is their IP entirely. Starcraft 2 I believe also had this clause, I'm just guessing here, but I think this is probably a large reason why the SC2 custom map scene never took off like the War 3 one did (along with having a pretty dreadful custom game search/lobby.) What truly skilled devs would invest time in something they didn't own at all.
 

ColonelForbin

Member
Oct 28, 2017
601
Bigg said:
Not saying they shouldn't. I'm just saying that the answer to "what happened to this game and why did Blizzard release it like this?" is most likely that Activision told Blizzard to shove this game out the door because they want the studio to focus entirely on their tentpole projects. Jason Schreier has done extensive reporting on how Activision is more hands-on at Blizzard than they've ever been and its affecting development of their games, like the Starcraft FPS being canceled.
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Well that point is too bad. Too bad they just don't hire some more people for an additional team at blizzard.
 

Deleted member 36135

Banned
Dec 13, 2017
887
Yikes.
It was a long, slow fall since the Activision culture poisoned the Blizzard well, saw a lot of it first hand, but goddamn...
Still passionately loved their games and their franchises...except for Overwatch and that's on me, I just didn't want to play that game...
The 'Tough E-Sports Moment' was pretty shameful, and honestly they still haven't recovered from that, but I was hopeful the future would be better...

I generally ignored or was indifferent towards Activision for the longest time, still held a bit of a grudge because of the Blizzard stuff, but I finally fully ignored them after the Modern Warfare remastered bullshit...

But now?
Hektor said:
Yea they had said last year that their ambitions for it had been downscaled a lot.
Which is why i'll likely won't buy it anytime soon if ever

€: Looks like they didn't actually say it, but it was expected
www.resetera.com

WarCraft III: Reforged is looking a lot like WarCraft III: Remastered (confirmed no story changes, no Reforged cutscenes)

My first thought upon digging into the development updates on this game was that Activision probably slashed their budget. There's been a lot of disappointing news that emerged about this game. Starting off with the controversial retcon plans they had...
www.resetera.com www.resetera.com
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Thorn said:
Warcraft 3 Reforged TOS requires handover of the "moral rights" to any custom map

Blizzard is a joke.
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This is some next level shit.
This entire product is such an epic failure in soooo many ways, and in ways I never, EVER would have thought possible, which makes it soo much worse since it's coming from Blizzard....
I can't even...

Hey, Blizzard?
Bye bitch.
 
CenturionNami

CenturionNami

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 2, 2017
5,230
h7tjrgo.jpg

I have no words.
 
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Lump

Lump

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,025
I refunded my preorder after the blitzchung thing. Looking over this thread, I think I would've refunded it even if the blitzchung thing never happened. This is just sad.
 
Quad Lasers

Quad Lasers

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,542
If you told me this was a game they built out of a bunch of discarded Heroes of the Storm assets, I'd believe you.
 
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