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Oct 30, 2017
15,278
Felt sort of "meh" about the ending. Everything seemed to wrap up too neatly and even the mid and post-credit stingers didn't enthrall me that much. Also, Wanda seems to have near-infinite power, even after Agatha got done sucking it all up. Sort of makes her struggles seem less impactful as she can just magic her way out of them.

I do hope Kathryn Hahn finds her way back. I really liked her as Agatha; she played a great devil's advocate.
 

HustleBun

Member
Nov 12, 2017
6,076
My initial reaction to the finale was disappointment.

But the more time I have away from it, the more I realize that 90% of my negative feelings are based on dashed hopes for a "shocking" ending that would impact the greater MCU. When I look at this as a story about Wanda and Vision, it's fantastic. It made me care about Vision. I didn't think that was possible. I also think they did a beautiful job of illustrating Wanda's Grief and her relationship with Vision.

The show made me tear up twice and I was acting like a spoiled child because I didn't get MCU crossover content.

I wonder if I had binged this, without weeks of fan theories in-between, if my reaction would have been different.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,256
This is the one thats weird to me, the other three are understandable. Why set this up with no payoff? During dailies I presume they had to see how this sounded. Maybe add a single line about your moms friends who don't agree with Haywards changes, or have the engineer also be a skrull. I get that they thought it was a tease that let to Photon's creation, but weird to not think they might also be teasing the unnamed person to be a future plot beat.

Because not everything has to have a payoff or was written to be a payoff. It was just something added as a reshoot to explain the Rover. The director was even saying he spent alot of money to make that Rover and all people cared about was who the engineer was. Kevin Smith even said like that's going to happen since Marvel has alot of characters that have high profile jobs and fans are going to go there regardless of how it's worded.

It's just a case of fans heavily theorizing things that aren't there. Kevin was even joking that it was good that the Scratchy part got cut. A transforming bunny would be end up being another mistaken Mephisto reference.
 

Slyonic

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,352
I was wondering if I should check it out since it's on D+ in Canada. Is it an enjoyable standalone one season show that's cancelled?

I quite liked it. It does end on a cliffhanger, but it's one of those cliffhangers where if you remove that one scene at the end, it would be a complete season.
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,382

Rellyrell28

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,968
Rewatched the part toward the end of the episode where Vision and Wanda was in the living room before the hex close and man who ever got that Vishawn meme is good cause that pose was only there for like a half second lol. That window was just as low as the Ed, Edd and Eddy meme with the dude looking out the door.
 

Foltzie

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
6,799
It was never a tease, it was just a shorthand for why Monica was able to a get a billion dollar experimental spacecraft delivered on command in three days.
Because not everything has to have a payoff or was written to be a payoff. It was just something added as a reshoot to explain the Rover. The director was even saying he spent alot of money to make that Rover and all people cared about was who the engineer was. Kevin Smith even said like that's going to happen since Marvel has alot of characters that have high profile jobs and fans are going to go there regardless of how it's worded.

It's just a case of fans heavily theorizing things that aren't there. Kevin was even joking that it was good that the Scratchy part got cut. A transforming bunny would be end up being another mistaken Mephisto reference.
I understand that the director didnt intend it to be a tease, but I'm surprised the director didnt realize the focus would be on who the engineer was, as opposed to the rover itself, which could have been handled with slightly different lines.
 

Rogue Agent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,529
So the director of WandaVision, Matt Shakman, was on FatMan Beyond with Kevin Smith and Marc Bernardin. He gave plenty of insight into the show. It's a LONG interview. https://youtu.be/qFxn1q-KqW8

2. So, about Fietro (timestamp here - https://youtu.be/qFxn1q-KqW8?t=7228):
- Some random person got a hold of his cell no. and texted him "Didn't you learn from The Mandarin in Iron Man 3?" But he said that was his favorite part of that movie!
- He said he loves playing around with expectations/turning things around on the audience. He thinks it's enjoyable.
- To those disappointed there's no multiverse/FoX-Men introduced here, he said that they're coming, so your patience will be rewarded.

This is a great summary of the interview but just one little gripe here; I don't think you should phrase this like "Multiverse/FOX-Men are still coming", thats a bit too specific. He just said we know a Multiverse is coming from the title of Doctor Strange 2 and we know Mutants are coming from Feige's words at SDCC 2019. Shakman probably just means the X-Men reboot is still coming after the 5 year plan Feige mentioned before rather than plucking Fox characters out of the Multiverse in DS2.

I'm not saying the Ralph Bohner joke destroyed that possibility like a lot of people, I just don't think we should view the quote in this lens and get our hopes up because right now it is still a question. I think this is how the Luke Skywalker cameo rumor with Liz Olsen got out of hand and also the the alleged Feige statement about WandaVision being part of a "Multiverse Trilogy". He never said it was a Multiverse Trilogy, he just said that WandaVision and No Way Home tie into DS2:MoM and the editorial writer at comicbook.com wrote this makes it sound like they form a loose trilogy with Multiverse at its core and everyone else ran with it.

Then there was nothing explicitly Multiverse or setting up NWH in WandaVision and some people got upset. I mean who knows what the future holds but I think we can all agree this show was a lesson in not to speculate too wildly and take every statement in its proper context because certain things get miscommunicated or oversimplified. While Shakman is correct we shouldn't fret too much because Doctor Strange is handling that subject, I think the real question that people are fretting over after the "Bohner" reveal is just what is Marvel Studios' take on "Multiverse"? Is this just a fancy way of Feige saying they're exploring stuff like the dark dimension or branching timelines like we see in Loki or is it more like the comics Multiverse and encompasses absolutely everything Marvel including the stuff Feige didn't have a hand in? Does the older Sony and Fox universes count and will they cross over?

Many of us hope for that outcome but nothing is guaranteed anymore and I do think the handling of Evan Peters makes it feel less likely. But again people seem to oversimplify the debate like "OMG Ralph Bohner!? Multiverse is fake!" and someone being like "What do you mean fake, its in the DS2 title?" and then a third guy will misinterpret that and be like "Multiverse is back on the menu boys! Hugh Jackman cameo in DS2 is coming!" But really until we see what they're doing with those old Spider-Man actors in No Way Home no one knows how MCU Multiverse works or whats coming. We shouldn't be so doom and gloom but we need to also knock our expectations down a bit until something is confirmed IMO.
 

TheBryanJZX90

Member
Nov 29, 2017
3,020
So the goodbye with her "kids" just completely fell flat. Did they even know they were about to be erased? Are they even sentient? Like Vision as a recreation of her memories made sense to an extent. But these made up children never previously existed and never even existed with Wanda outside of the artificial confines of the hex sitcoms (in other words, never interacting with Wanda just her characters in the show) other than like the last day of their "lives." So it was just bizarre that they attempted to give them an emotional goodbye.
 

Wrexis

Member
Nov 4, 2017
21,253
More info here.
www.murphysmultiverse.com

'WandaVision': Matt Shakman Opens Up About How the Pandemic Changed the Finale - Murphy's Multiverse

It’s crazy to think that WandaVision has officially come to an end. After its nine-episode run on Disney+,…

Monica was even originally going to have a bigger role in the finale, such as her, the kids, Ralph, and Darcy trying to steal the Darkhold from the basement. There we would find out that the bunny Scratchy was a demon. It was all filmed but they couldn't finish the VFX for it.
 

Slaythe

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,861
haha, this is funny yet annoying to see confirmed.

I feel like the more time passes the more the show felt like "haha, we got you, it really wasn't more than it seemed !" and I'm like, ok... what did you actually accomplish there ?

Also can't forgive the absolute shafting of Aaron Taylor Johnson's Pietro, even in flashbacks.

Or how they don't even address how their explanation for Wanda surviving makes 0 sense considering the brother also survived and got super powers.
Went out of their way to not make them mutant so now Pietro is just a big shrug.
 

Slyonic

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,352
I don't know what the chances are, but it would be nice if they could add some scenes in later. With it exclusively being on a streaming service, and The Mandalorian making changes after releasing episodes too, who knows.
Because it really seems those deleted scenes were deleted due to lack of time and not because of a different direction. That's just a shame.
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,382
I feel like the more time passes the more the show felt like "haha, we got you, it really wasn't more than it seemed !" and I'm like, ok... what did you actually accomplish there ?

Also can't forgive the absolute shafting of Aaron Taylor Johnson's Pietro, even in flashbacks.

Or how they don't even address how their explanation for Wanda surviving makes 0 sense considering the brother also survived and got super powers.
Went out of their way to not make them mutant so now Pietro is just a big shrug.

I feel like the show did some really good things worth commending, but dropped the ball in some key areas.

I try to stay out of the deep plot stuff like why did Pietro survive the experiment- because it wasn't Pietro's story. Maybe the mindstone saved him so that he could be the beginning of Wanda's grief... or some crap like that. Like I'm ok with writers taking plot liberties if it leads to good characterizations.

But yeah these gags- Its like , lets intentionally build the show so that it entices fans who like to dig into the weeds, and when it comes to payoff its revealed to be ... A giant middle finger! How fun!

There's subverting expectations, and then there's making a joke out of actively choosing not to realize the meta-storytelling potential your product, format and audience bring to the table. Lol, I guess.
 

fierygunrob

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jan 16, 2018
299
the true connection to dr strange 2 right was under our noses

at the end when she hears her kids calling out for 'mom', they're actually referring to the movie, dr strange Multiverse Of Madness

MOM

giphy.gif
 

Garlador

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
14,131
More info here.
www.murphysmultiverse.com

'WandaVision': Matt Shakman Opens Up About How the Pandemic Changed the Finale - Murphy's Multiverse

It’s crazy to think that WandaVision has officially come to an end. After its nine-episode run on Disney+,…
I would have liked to have seen that, even as a "director's cut" done later. It was abundantly clear some things just had to be compromised due to COVID, but I still fully feel the focus on Wanda and Vision hit the mark and I'm happy for that.
 

Kinthey

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
22,338
The whole Quicksilver/Ralph Bohner stuff was basically the pencil scene from Big Lebowski

 
Last edited:
Jul 10, 2020
3,598
So I'm now more convinced than ever that the Post-Credit scene from Episode 9 was a scene lifted directly from Multiverse of Madness.

The shots are so much higher budget that Wandvision, have a completely different visual style, and have the FEEL of a Raimi movie.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,483
Did the post credits not play for anyone else? I didn't see the episode 8 moment with Monica and Pietro/Ralph and even when I saw it come up in the discussion and went back to watch it, it didn't come up. And I didn't see the episode 9 one with the kids' voices. Is it after all the foreign language credits are done? Fairly certain I waited until it kicked me back to the series screen. Not sure if there's other post credits bits I've missed.
 

skeptem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,749
So I'm now more convinced than ever that the Post-Credit scene from Episode 9 was a scene lifted directly from Multiverse of Madness.

The shots are so much higher budget that Wandvision, have a completely different visual style, and have the FEEL of a Raimi movie.
I think I said out loud "Did they get this b-roll from a different project?"
 

Fuzzy

Completely non-threatening
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,135
Toronto
So I'm now more convinced than ever that the Post-Credit scene from Episode 9 was a scene lifted directly from Multiverse of Madness.

The shots are so much higher budget that Wandvision, have a completely different visual style, and have the FEEL of a Raimi movie.
The WV director said he had meetings with Raimi about aesthetics so it's possible Raimi shot it himself like has happened in previous MCU movies with the credits scenes.
 

Duane

Unshakable Resolve
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,445
I was pretty sure it showed up in The Runaways too, so I checked and it indeed was. Elizabeth Hurley tried to use it to merge their universe with the Dark Dimension.

Folks probably don't care about that, though. 😂


I mean, basically, the Darkhold in WandaVision IS, on paper, the same Darkhold from AoS and Runaways for now. What will really make it - and those shows - disappear from canon completely is when Marvel Studios decide they want to use Ghost Rider or Morgan LeFay and not have them be the previous versions. (Or who knows, maybe those characters show up eventually and confirm the previous versions, you never know.)
 

Deleted member 7051

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,254
Also, Wanda seems to have near-infinite power, even after Agatha got done sucking it all up.

To be fair, Thanos was called the most powerful being in the universe and Wanda totally overwhelmed him. You can't even say she used telekinesis to lift him into the air render his physical strength irrelevant, because he held that sword down on her and had all the leverage he could want and she ended his whole career with a smirk. She was going to kill him but she wanted it to hurt. So while I don't think she has necessarily has near-infinite power, she's probably the strongest being in the universe by a considerable margin and so most problems would indeed be rather easy for her to solve.
 

Duane

Unshakable Resolve
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,445
I wonder if Agatha during her 400+ years ever crossed paths with the Ancient One (who WAS the Sorcerer Supreme all that time)?
 

LinkStrikesBack

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,366
To be fair, Thanos was called the most powerful being in the universe and Wanda totally overwhelmed him. You can't even say she used telekinesis to lift him into the air render his physical strength irrelevant, because he held that sword down on her and had all the leverage he could want and she ended his whole career with a smirk. She was going to kill him but she wanted it to hurt. So while I don't think she has necessarily has near-infinite power, she's probably the strongest being in the universe by a considerable margin and so most problems would indeed be rather easy for her to solve.

Thanos was *physically* one of the most powerful person in the universe. That doesn't do you much good vs magic that forces an object to be immovable, or can rip your organs out of you (like she did to ultron). It's not like she could stop him moving in infinity war when he had the stones to actually give him a way to defend himself vs her. In a similar way, had Strange confronted Thanos 1v1 when he had no stones like in the final endgame battle, he would have ripped him a new one with little challenge. The man just had no way whatsoever to defend against magic without the stones. Without some method of projectile magic type attack, there's not much you can do vs magicians short of taking them by surprise.

By the same line of thought, she got wiped out from the endgame fight permanently by getting scuffed by a single laser blast from the spaceship that wouldn't have phased thanos in the slightest, that doesn't mean Thanos is infinitely stronger than her though, they're just both strong in very different ways. Of course, being in the ballpark of Thanos level in any way makes you among like, maybe 5 on screen characters in the MCU so far anyway.
 

deimosmasque

Ugly, Queer, Gender-Fluid, Drive-In Mutant, yes?
Moderator
Apr 22, 2018
14,223
Tampa, Fl
Rewatched Dr Strange yesterday and the Ancient One says that sorcerers use energy from the other dimensions in the multiverse to cast spells.

I have a feeling that the "Multiverse of Madness" is referring to things like the Dark Dimension, the Negative Zone, the Astral Plane, etc. And not multiverse as though as alternate Earths with differing events.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,066
So the goodbye with her "kids" just completely fell flat. Did they even know they were about to be erased? Are they even sentient? Like Vision as a recreation of her memories made sense to an extent. But these made up children never previously existed and never even existed with Wanda outside of the artificial confines of the hex sitcoms (in other words, never interacting with Wanda just her characters in the show) other than like the last day of their "lives." So it was just bizarre that they attempted to give them an emotional goodbye.

really? they were her children. The real time may have been only a few days but she'll have likely built up memories of them, and them her, and they'll have emotional bonds. She allowed her children to be 'killed' to undo the Hex.

I assume they didn't know, which is why she gave them a 'normal' bedtime routine before closing the door and letting them be erased
 

StormBrute

Member
Oct 26, 2017
263
Thanos was *physically* one of the most powerful person in the universe. That doesn't do you much good vs magic that forces an object to be immovable, or can rip your organs out of you (like she did to ultron). It's not like she could stop him moving in infinity war when he had the stones to actually give him a way to defend himself vs her. In a similar way, had Strange confronted Thanos 1v1 when he had no stones like in the final endgame battle, he would have ripped him a new one with little challenge. The man just had no way whatsoever to defend against magic without the stones. Without some method of projectile magic type attack, there's not much you can do vs magicians short of taking them by surprise.

By the same line of thought, she got wiped out from the endgame fight permanently by getting scuffed by a single laser blast from the spaceship that wouldn't have phased thanos in the slightest, that doesn't mean Thanos is infinitely stronger than her though, they're just both strong in very different ways. Of course, being in the ballpark of Thanos level in any way makes you among like, maybe 5 on screen characters in the MCU so far anyway.
Yeah, Wanda is a glass cannon. Highest theoretical offensive + utility capability of the Avengers, but incredibly fragile compared to almost everyone else on the team. I would say Carol is at the highest level for offense + durability combined, with Thor slightly below her.

They should really give her a vibranium suit or something like that because a stray bullet could take her out in an instant (assuming her chaos magic doesn't auto protect from lethal damage)...
 

kurahador

Member
Oct 28, 2017
17,570
Finally finished. Really glad I didn't follow this weekly and reading all the fan theories. Because if I did, boy my disappointment would've been immeasurable. Felt like the conclusion (that this is really just Scarlet Witch origin story) not only didn't stick to its landing, it missed the mark quite abit considering clever stuff they did throughout the series implied something better.

Incredible effort wasted on a Doctor Strange/Age Of Ultron-tier script and generic music (aside from those parody songs).
 

4CornersTHSA

Member
Jun 13, 2019
1,555
Loved WandaVision as a whole, but man I did not like how they resolved the Pietro storyline.
Although, I suppose it's still possible there's more to 'Fietro' than we know at this point, I really do hope that's the case.

Likewise. Even if he's not the DOFP/Apoc/DP Peter but a different one, or even a new villain, anything would've been better IMO.

At this point though it would be needlessly convoluted, I think. Was he there before Wanda came to WestView? Is he really Ralph or just playing a role Wanda created, then Agatha highjacked? Did the necklace also give him super speed? (And if it did then WTH is Agatha worried about Wanda for, just make a bunch of those and take over the world/zerg rush her ass with your super speedy minions. She's lived for centuries, pretty sure she could make a decent stockpile) Unless they plan to spend a decent amount of time with Strange and Wanda in WestView if/when they go back for Agatha and explain it, or they really are doing a second season of WandaVision, I think he's just a random dude and that's all.

Wanda is powerful enough to create a hex that controls a town of thousands, can recreate a vibranium synthezoid from nothing, gives birth to super powered twins that age up to preteens in a week, and she did all that unconsciously. (and the next time we see her will be in the *Multiverse* of Madness)

I'm on board with Feige and team recasting every mutant and X-team member, with one for sure exception, Deadpool, and one possible if it could made sense in context, Quicksilver. His MCU counterpart being dead, Wanda's grief of losing loved ones is an uncontrolled trigger for her ridiculous powers, Dr Strange multiverse sequel...yeah, I do not blame anyone for entertaining the thought. And the writers knew a lot of folks would, too.

If they wanted to go there with Peters, they could have, in about the most plausible scenario we're going to get *any* Quicksilver in the MCU.

If they wanted to introduce him as a new villain speedster for Thunderbolts down the line, they could have. And at least we'd still be excited to see where Peters goes from here.

Instead he's a sitcom trope and a dick joke.

I really did enjoy WandaVision as a whole, but this and especially Monica's "sacrifice" line to Wanda in the finale were big misses for me personally.
 

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
40,215
Greater Vancouver
Sucks, but yeah it really did feel like COVID got in the way of things there at the end. I don't think it changes things thematically, and my problems with how Wanda vs. Agatha is just a laser battle, but it does explain some of the rushed beats.
 

ratcliffja

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,918
the true connection to dr strange 2 right was under our noses

at the end when she hears her kids calling out for 'mom', they're actually referring to the movie, dr strange Multiverse Of Madness

MOM

giphy.gif
Actually I think you're onto something but in reverse. I know you're joking, but MOM being the initials might be a hint that a big part of the story is Wanda trying to get her kids back.
 

TheBryanJZX90

Member
Nov 29, 2017
3,020
Actually I think you're onto something but in reverse. I know you're joking, but MOM being the initials might be a hint that a big part of the story is Wanda trying to get her kids back.
Back from what? No one took the kids from her, she willed them into existence from nothing and then let that magic expire a couple days later
 

GreenMamba

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,317
When Wanda saw the dead versions of Vision and Fietro I wonder if that was her legitimately losing it or if that was another one of Agatha's tricks.
1000

1000


(huh, Ralph really is always wearing that necklace)

EDIT: Actually, thinking on it, Wanda saw zombie Quicksilver when "Fietro" was trying to prod Wanda into telling him how she made the Hex so that would have been counterproductive. So they are almost certainly just hallucinations by Wanda.
 

Parthenios

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
13,615
I really can't get over that they handle Fietro this way. Do you want all the extra engagement and word of mouth from fan speculation, or not? Is anyone else excited for Falcon to start next week and to start a speculation train (where literally none of it is true and a large amount is intentional meta fuckery)? They've trained everyone to expect nothing and receive even less (boner jokes).

I'm not even salty about any theory not being true, I just don't want to engage with media this way.
 

ratcliffja

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,918
When Wanda saw the dead versions of Vision and Fietro I wonder if that was her legitimately losing it or if that was another one of Agatha's tricks.
1000

1000


(huh, Ralph really is always wearing that necklace)

EDIT: Actually, thinking on it, Wanda saw zombie Quicksilver when "Fietro" was trying to prod Wanda into telling him how she made the Hex so that would have been counterproductive. So they are almost certainly just hallucinations by Wanda.
I think this is part of the nightmares that the residents mentioned.
 

Garlador

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
14,131
I really can't get over that they handle Fietro this way. Do you want all the extra engagement and word of mouth from fan speculation, or not? Is anyone else excited for Falcon to start next week and to start a speculation train (where literally none of it is true and a large amount is intentional meta fuckery)? They've trained everyone to expect nothing and receive even less (boner jokes).

I'm not even salty about any theory not being true, I just don't want to engage with media this way.
They've explained their casting multiple times. And from a scriptwriter's perspective, there are many smart reasons they did it, ranging from meta-commentary on TV show recasting and stunt casting, to commentary on how a fake Pietro factors into Wanda's desperation for his return, to the fact that red herrings are intentional and not inherently bad on their own.

It's why so many people were speculating that there was somehow some bigger, badder villain pulling the strings - Cthon, Mephisto, even Agatha. But despite the "Agatha All Along" song, the actual cause of the Hex was... Wanda. Her grief. Her trauma. There wasn't a bigger villain pushing her towards it. There wasn't some demonic ulterior motive. All that speculation had a simple and insanely tragic answer - it was just Wanda, from the beginning. That's much sadder. And also the point.

A ton of theories did pan out, but anyone hyping themselves up for the X-men or Fantastic Four were seeing a ton of things that weren't there. So much of the speculation was based on simply the fun of speculating. I remember laughing at some videos wondering who the "creepy costumed person" was in the Halloween episode, and watching the clip I realized it was just a mannequin. That's how deep the speculation went.

And, ultimately, it was a simple story with some real weirdness and fun tropes exploring the dark reality that it's simply a story of a woman coping with loss, dealing with mental health issues, and working through her grief. With magic powers.

Edit: Nobody should be going into Falcon & Winter Soldier with the goal of "speculating", though if it's like the comics the showrunner is basing them in, expect at least some heavy commentary on racial politics in America.