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ZeoVGM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
76,107
Providence, RI
I want to try and make it clear how I feel about this.

I've been accused of being a Marvel/MCU fanboy on Era and back on GAF because of how little I criticize the MCU. The reason for that is because I truly believe they knock it out of the park almost every single time.

So with that said:

"They'll never know what you sacrificed for them" is the worst moment in the entire MCU and completely insulting to good storytelling on every possible level.
 

cognizant

Member
Dec 19, 2017
13,751
What does the post-credit scene imply, everyone? Did Billy somehow realise what was happening and magic himself and his bro out of the hex/reality?
 

Nightwing123

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,412
Enjoyed the finale even if it was standard MCU but I absolutely loved the show as a whole. All the Wanda Vision stuff was well done. We are definitely getting Vision back since White Vision is still out there. The end credits sets up the Kids coming back so Young Avengers are still in play.

I was with people on the wild theories but episode 8 made be back down from those theories. It was flat out told to us that Pietro was fake yall were just in denial over that.
 

Okabe

Is Sometimes A Good Bean
Member
Aug 24, 2018
19,895
KUGv4pu.jpg
 

LinkStrikesBack

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,351
It didn't though. What did it rush through? It was almost half the running time of a feature film.

It had multiple characters who had plots expected to be wrapped up as one liners or jokes that miss the mark. Evans was reduced to a joke, Darcy existed in this show entirely only to crash a car in to haywards, and Hayward is now "going to jail" for some non-descript crimes that he apparently committed I guess? You could also cut Woo entirely and the show wouldn't have lost anything at all for it.

A long running time doesn't mean things aren't rushed or skipped over that shouldn't have been, or needed longer elaboration on.
 

Bing147

Member
Jun 13, 2018
3,689
The more I think about it, the more I actually like it. Its not super successful from a "fan service pay off" perspective. They definitely set some things up and used them more as red herrings than anything else. That's clearly intentional though and not inherently bad.

From an emotional standpoint it works fantastically. Wanda having to sacrifice the family she's created for herself, losing yet another family when that has been the story of her life (first her parents, then Pietro, then the Avengers after Civil War, then Vision, now this new Vision and her kids) is heartbreaking and those final scenes with Vision and the kids are fantastic. Truly excellent stuff. They were more focused on ending this story right than setting things up for future ones (that's what the post credit scenes are for).

I see some people talking about how the line about what she sacrificed is awful, about how she was the bad guy here so it doesn't really work, but I mean... that's the Scarlet Witch! They actually perfectly made her the character she is in the comics, lol. Wanda in the comics is someone who has done awful things. She killed Vision/Hawkeye and ended the Avengers. She destroyed the mutants. She messed up trying to bring them back and only got to do so for a select few. Yet she's still an Avenger at times, she's still sanctimonious, she'll accept some of the responsibility but then she'll wildly swerve into woe is me crap and blaming others for her actions. Its definitely frustrating at times, but if anything they were able to take the character in the MCU and graft her comic persona perfectly onto her.

They also set up a lot of really interesting things going forward. Vision's back, he's alive. He's not really himself though. They're clearly going forward with the white Vision storyline from the comics, where he has his memories, but not his emotions. Where he knows about his past, but he doesn't feel it. He's kind of a new person, but also kind of not. That's going to be interesting. Wanda's kids are still clearly around in some form and will be back, they're going to be Young Avengers. Monica is off to Captain Marvel 2. I'd bet on Jimmy and Darcy showing up somewhere. Agatha is still alive and is clearly hinted to return at some point. Lots of interesting stuff to come.

Also, Wanda's new costume is freaking awesome. Glad they're leaning into it, but also found a way to make what is frankly an absurd looking costume in the comics look cool. I like that as time goes on the MCU has felt more and more free to lean into the more "comic book" elements of it. In the early going they went with a very Ultimate Marvel aesthetic. Not for the personalities or feel of the characters mostly (thank god) but from a look perspective they wanted the same thing Ultimate Marvel did 20 years ago. To be more "realistic" so that people who didn't like the over the top nature of comics would give them a chance. They don't need that anymore though. People are all in and get this stuff enough now that they're cool with it. I dig it.
 

Shaun Solo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,079
They gotta retcon it so that Wanda was still subconsciously controlling Monica at the end to say that line lmao
 

Sblargh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,926
I liked the finale, this is what sucks, I thought it was emotional, like how a lot of the series were, I think the answers were satisfying except Fietro that felt like a gratuitous fuck you to X-Men fans just because, but, you know, it was a good ending.
But that one line from Monica is going to haunt this final episode.
 

Android

Member
Oct 28, 2017
803
Vancouver
I was wondering that myself when they were arresting him. "Being a bit of an asshole to Wanda" is the charge, I guess. They probably should've been arresting Wanda but she just flew away instead.
FBI Agent "You have the right to remain silent... wait what are we arresting him for?"
2nd Agent "I don't really know Darcy told us to.. something about crashing Wanda's game. Guess she hadn't saved in a while."
 

Tansut

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Dec 16, 2017
2,463
What does the post-credit scene imply, everyone? Did Billy somehow realise what was happening and magic himself and his bro out of the hex/reality?
The major implication is that you will never, ever be able to consume a piece of MCU related material feeling like things have actually concluded in a satisfactory manner. The sun will explode in a supernova and Marvel will still be producing the next Phase.

Okay I'm gonna go to sleep because I am HEATED.
 

StudioTan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,836
I will say, they used those 8 episodes to build Agatha up to being one of the more compelling MCU villains, and I hope we see a LOT of her going forward.

But Wanda? No. This entire show was basically "White Woman Tears: The Miniseries"
What do her race and gender have to do with anything? "White bitches be crazy"?
 

Browser

Member
Apr 13, 2019
2,031
Delaying white vision and wanda meeting was stupid.

Monica handwaving what wanda did, and wanda even saying arrogantly "it would not change how they view me" was stupid. You made them suffer for what, months? And its like they are the assholes for being pissed at you?

Also why did hayworth shoot those kids? Such a basic level of villany, it makes no sense.

Also what are the mechanics of agnes now? The hex is gone, so are the runes. And where is she being the nosy neighbor? Wanda gave her no house I guess?

Man I love this series right up until episode 8. Episode 9 was very underwhelming.
 

Namikaze1

Member
Oct 25, 2017
668
I enjoyed the finale a lot. Thank god Evan wasn't FOX Quicksilver. Vision fight was the highlight of the episode for me. They finally gave him a proper showing of his powers.
 

Vonocourt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,621
They really should have cut that whole scene she had in the town square with Monica
I'd have to watch it again, but I think it's just that one line that really changes it.

The town people utterly filled with contempt staring at Wanda as she makes quick glances, unable to meet their eyes. Even Monica saying she would've done the same thing is not terrible, it's a reach out to one who knows loss to another, not a vindication.
 

EloNoolah

Member
Oct 25, 2017
152
It was like next-level astral projection where the body and soul could function independently. Maybe to show her progress in learning magic...?

Also got some serious Evil Dead vibes with the cabin. lol
I'm feeling like it was maybe intended as a sort of callback to the scene where Strange is tearing through all the books of magic and astral projects in his sleep so he can cram in even more studying? Whatever Wanda's learned from the Darkhold has allowed her to exceed even that and be fully awake and functioning while also projecting and studying/experimenting with the book.
 

TolerLive

Senior Lighting Artist
Verified
Nov 15, 2017
1,852
Redmond, WA
Why does everything think Wanda should have apologized? Not apologizing was the point and clearly important to her future character arc. She chose to run away rather than face the consequences of her actions and that is 100% obviously leading into her continuing down that path once she fucks up the multiverse. her failing to own up to her error is the entire point.
 

El_Chino

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,113
The ending was both personally predictable but satisfying. I correctly assumed the fate of one character while wrongly assuming another would appear.
 

thecouncil

Member
Oct 29, 2017
12,333
Remember when they had a short to explain the Mandarin situation in Iron Man 3?

...Well, now they need to have a short to explain why Monica said that line about sacrifice.
 

Sblargh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,926
Absolutely zero closure or even a tease of what is to come. You need to have at least one of those.

The tease is the episode itself. The body is functioning, and there is literally a part of the mind stone within Wanda which is the secret ingredient. It is what people thought it would happen in this episode (the two merging), but for the future. The pieces are still all there.
 
May 26, 2018
24,005
Why does everything think Wanda should have apologized? Not apologizing was the point and clearly important to her future character arc. She chose to run away rather than face the consequences of her actions and that is 100% obviously leading into her continuing down that path once she fucks up the multiverse. her failing to own up to her error is the entire point.

Monica's the weirdo in the scene though

I mean she got enslaved too, what is it, Stockholm Syndrome? Forgot literal kids got enslaved?
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,988
Inland Empire
I enjoyed it but I wonder if this is more big picture stuff. Like when Iron Man 2 came out it was kinda meh but someo of the big picture stuff didn't paid off till years down the line.
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,943
What do her race and gender have to do with anything? "White bitches be crazy"?
Huh? I didn't say that.

I was referencing the fact that this one person's tears (yes, a white woman), until a future MCU thing modifies it, are being used to excuse the fact that she held an entire town hostage and under psychological trauma while she gathered her feels.

It's awful. Period.
 

ZeoVGM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
76,107
Providence, RI
Why does everything think Wanda should have apologized? Not apologizing was the point and clearly important to her future character arc. She chose to run away rather than face the consequences of her actions and that is 100% obviously leading into her continuing down that path once she fucks up the multiverse. her failing to own up to her error is the entire point.

No one is criticizing Wanda running away.

They're criticizing the fact that Monica treated her like a hero who made a sacrifice as she ran away.
 

PRrambo_

PlayStation.jif
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,855
I'm learning tonight that people are going to be pissed off when they expect No Way Home to be Spiderverse but will mostly be another Solo film for Tom Holland with small appearances from Tobey and Andrew
 

Sargerus

▲ Legend ▲
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
20,834
Wanda with the Darkhold is some really BAD shit waiting to happen.

I'm not sure Nightmare will be the villain in Doc Strange 2 anymore.
 

SneakersSO

Banned
Oct 24, 2017
1,353
North America
So wait.... what charges was Hayward arrested on?
Experimenting on a broken robot and trying to stop two deranged witches? Shooting at two The Sims children? He'll be out again in a day.
The only thing I can really think of is that he violated Vision's DNR with White Vision, or that his will stated he would not be reactivated as some tool of war or something.

Just goes to show how awfully written and paced the show was since mention of this was made once like 5 episodes ago, never brought up since
 

Vonocourt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,621
Why does everything think Wanda should have apologized? Not apologizing was the point and clearly important to her future character arc. She chose to run away rather than face the consequences of her actions and that is 100% obviously leading into her continuing down that path once she fucks up the multiverse. her failing to own up to her error is the entire point.
Thread's moving fast, but I've only seen one person say she should've apologized.
 

Sandstar

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,739
I'm gonna give a different take on the "they'll never know the sacrifices you made for them" line. I think Monica was trying, badly, to tell Wanda that she did the right thing, despite how hard it was for her, and wanda responded with "It wouldn't make a difference" showing that she knew Monica was wrong, and that the sacrifice she made wouldn't make a difference to the townsfolk.
 

LinkStrikesBack

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,351
characters aren't just something that you do on the way to plot, sometimes a character is just a character

Yes, but Darcy and Woos characters didn't develop or do anything of note at all either. When a characters role is entirely pointless to the show, you have to ask why they were included when there were other things that needed more elaboration.
 

Sblargh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,926
Why does everything think Wanda should have apologized? Not apologizing was the point and clearly important to her future character arc. She chose to run away rather than face the consequences of her actions and that is 100% obviously leading into her continuing down that path once she fucks up the multiverse. her failing to own up to her error is the entire point.

Nonononono

I think Wanda's character acted perfectly as a superpowered being with issues, but ultimately not evil. She was and still is a great character.
The entire problem is that good guy Monica left her off the hook.
 

bastardly

Member
Nov 8, 2017
10,577
what a letdown, loved last weeks ep, but this felt like a big budget smallville episode or something most of the time. sad to see fake vision go, but the real one is in the wild now. the whole quicksilver thing was straight up nonsense, they knew what they were doing and yeh that was just fucking dumb unless theyre playing a long con, but i doubt it.

overall though, i liked the season, finally gave us a reason to give a shit about wanda and vision as a couple because it felt so forced in the movies, but here it has a chance to breathe and was easily the best thing about the series.