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Gay Bowser

Member
Oct 30, 2017
17,707
Also go watch episode 4 again. When Monica is thrown out of Westview an alarm starts blaring in the SWORD camp because the wall has been breached from the inside. Then, when Pietro shows up in the 5th episode and they cut to SWORD you can again hear another alarm going off. That's because there has just been another unauthorized breach, this time from the outside.

He didn't start out in Westview. He was put there.

Ehh, this isn't super convincing to me. I think Fietro made it into Westview in a way that didn't take him through the hex wall. I think it's pretty clear SWORD had formed some sort of perimeter around the hex and would presumably stop someone from just, like, walking in.
 

SamAlbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,351
I'm in the "Fietro is a Pietro from the Multiverse, whether he's specifically the Fox version or not" camp, but I'd get a kick if he was another Marvel white-haired speedster like Northstar or future Tommy.

They should bring in the Fox X-Men universe to the Multiverse, but address all of it's wonky flow of time, retcons, and continuity errors by saying that it's a damaged, unstable timeline on the verge of collapse.

Ehh, this isn't super convincing to me. I think Fietro made it into Westview in a way that didn't take him through the hex wall. I think it's pretty clear SWORD had formed some sort of perimeter around the hex and would presumably stop someone from just, like, walking in.

If he's going "Time in a Bottle" speed, there's not much they can do to stop him. It would be a wonder if they even noticed him.
 

Cuburger

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,975
Even if Fietro ends up being Fox Peter, I'm glad they kept true to Wanda's relationship with MCU Pietro and to the story they were telling rather than fall down some rabbit hole trying to explain how actually Fox Peter is basically the same person and therefore it makes sense that he treats Wanda like his sister and how now Magneto is her dad despite it barely even being a connection of substance in the X-Men films with Fox Peter and taking the whole story down some Fox multiverse detour.

Also, even if he isn't Fox Peter, I don't see how that takes multiverse X-Men completely off the table. Even if they aren't in MoM, the door is opened for the multiverse going forward. Personally, I think it would be actually more meaningful when mutants and more X-Men characters are established in the MCU, so you get the chance of characters meeting their alternate reality versions of themselves, but hey what do I know.
 

SamAlbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,351
Even if Fietro ends up being Fox Peter, I'm glad they kept true to Wanda's relationship with MCU Pietro and to the story they were telling rather than fall down some rabbit hole trying to explain how actually Fox Peter is basically the same person and therefore it makes sense that he treats Wanda like his sister and how now Magneto is her dad despite it barely even being a connection of substance in the X-Men films with Fox Peter and taking the whole story down some Fox multiverse detour.

Also, even if he isn't Fox Peter, I don't see how that takes multiverse X-Men completely off the table. Even if they aren't in MoM, the door is opened for the multiverse going forward. Personally, I think it would be actually more meaningful when mutants and more X-Men characters are established in the MCU, so you get the chance of characters meeting their alternate reality versions of themselves, but hey what do I know.

The Foxverse connecting to the MCU is guaranteed at this point because of Deadpool 3. It's just a matter of how much connection.
 

Cuburger

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,975
The Foxverse connecting to the MCU is guaranteed at this point because of Deadpool 3. It's just a matter of how much connection.
I don't think Deadpool 3 guarantees anything. By virtue of being Deadpool, which wasn't even canon to the other X-Men films, I'd say it's more likely that it guarantees nothing. He's basically a cartoon character that operates by his own set of rules.
 

softtack

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,650
Bit confused here. Wanda touched the Mind Stone and had her true powers unlocked. Why was that in the Tesseract of all places?
 

Watchtower

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,650
Even if Fietro ends up being Fox Peter, I'm glad they kept true to Wanda's relationship with MCU Pietro and to the story they were telling rather than fall down some rabbit hole trying to explain how actually Fox Peter is basically the same person and therefore it makes sense that he treats Wanda like his sister and how now Magneto is her dad despite it barely even being a connection of substance in the X-Men films with Fox Peter and taking the whole story down some Fox multiverse detour.

Also, even if he isn't Fox Peter, I don't see how that takes multiverse X-Men completely off the table. Even if they aren't in MoM, the door is opened for the multiverse going forward. Personally, I think it would be actually more meaningful when mutants and more X-Men characters are established in the MCU, so you get the chance of characters meeting their alternate reality versions of themselves, but hey what do I know.

Yeah, the Foxverse is tied to the MCU and every other Marvel movie adaptation by virtue of the Marvel multiverse. Evan Peters is still Fox Quicksilver even if this current depiction right now isn't, and him not playing that particular version now doesn't mean he can't reprise that particular version later. Multiversal rumors seem to be deliberately leaving the door open for recastings like this.

I don't think Deadpool 3 guarantees anything. By virtue of being Deadpool, which wasn't even canon to the other X-Men films, I'd say it's more likely that it guarantees nothing. He's basically a cartoon character that operates by his own set of rules.

And yeah, Deadpool is a gag character that transcends canonicity, with his movies taking place in their own little world tangentially and somewhat tenuously tied to the rest of the Foxverse. Like, it's been a running joke/theory since the first movie came out that its final fight took place on a downed Helicarrier. By the very virtue of his post-modernism he could literally cross over to the MCU as is, and a lot of people outright expect him to because that's precisely the kind of joke he'd roll with.
 

Crazymoogle

Game Developer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,884
Asia
The will of the stones is pretty hard to carry out if it vaporizes the holder, so I imagine all of them find themselves in carrying containers eventually.

It's gonna be really awkward if Hex Vision meets White Vision.

"You were great in Master & Commander"
"Thanks. You too, I heard you were great in A Knight's Tale"
 

ZeoVGM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
76,176
Providence, RI
I don't think Deadpool 3 guarantees anything. By virtue of being Deadpool, which wasn't even canon to the other X-Men films, I'd say it's more likely that it guarantees nothing. He's basically a cartoon character that operates by his own set of rules.

Given that we're jumping into the multiverse over the next couple movies, which is almost certainly building up to something else, I'd be shocked if Deadpool 3's story wasn't literally about Wade moving from one universe to another.
 

Watchtower

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,650
So Thanos had no idea that it contained the Mind Stone and gave the scepter to Loki?

We can speculate the reasons why Loki was for some reason carrying an Infinity Stone on a stick, but the long and short of it is Marvel Studios only really cemented doing Infinity Stones by Phase 2 and "Loki's Scepter is actually the Mind Stone" is one of the...let's just say less clean retcons they employed to make it work.

There was a theory that's actually been somewhat canonized that Loki had also fallen victim to the Mind Stone and was potentially being influenced by Thanos, hence why he's far more overtly evil in Avengers than anywhere else.
 

softtack

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,650
We can speculate the reasons why Loki was for some reason carrying an Infinity Stone on a stick, but the long and short of it is Marvel Studios only really cemented doing Infinity Stones by Phase 2 and "Loki's Scepter is actually the Mind Stone" is one of the...let's just say less clean retcons they employed to make it work.

There was a theory that's actually been somewhat canonized that Loki had also fallen victim to the Mind Stone and was potentially being influenced by Thanos, hence why he's far more overtly evil in Avengers than anywhere else.
That puts things into perspective and why they glossed over it at the time. Thanks.
I blame Whedon xD
 

Crazymoogle

Game Developer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,884
Asia
Honestly I expect Deadpool to cross over into the St. Elsewhere universe too. :lol

So Thanos had no idea that it contained the Mind Stone and gave it away?

Avengers 1 post credits: "Humans...they were not the cowering wretches we were promised"
Guardians 1: Thanos is literally asking Ronan to give him the power stone
Age of Ultron: "Finally...I'll do it myself" < this is when he puts on the gauntlet.

So we have plenty of evidence that Thanos was using emissaries to gather the stones. After Loki and Ronan both fail, Thanos decides to just go out there and get them himself, which sounds more efficient when you know where the stones all are, but realistically the emissaries did a lot of the legwork to get the intel. Plus, Guardians at least gives the vibe that even if you have a stone, betraying Thanos is really bad because he might be able to hold one without the gauntlet while most people would die.
 

Cuburger

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,975
It's gonna be really awkward if Hex Vision meets White Vision.
Only in the beginning when White Vision realizes Wanda moved on with himself after he died and they started a family in the house he bought.

After that, they'll work things out.

Mw0Q1A.gif
 

Gay Bowser

Member
Oct 30, 2017
17,707
If he's going "Time in a Bottle" speed, there's not much they can do to stop him. It would be a wonder if they even noticed him.

I get that, but if they didn't notice him, they wouldn't have sounded an alarm.

I think the most simple explanation is probably the correct one: Agatha summoned him from another universe from within the Westview anomaly. I don't understand why he would have ever been in this universe but outside of Westview.
 

Watchtower

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,650
That puts things into perspective and why they glossed over it at the time. Thanks.
I blame Whedon xD

Whedon's actually the one who came up with Thanos being the Bigger Bad in Avengers. Phase 1 and Phase 2 are for the most part Feige and co. playing fast and loose first getting to Avengers and then having some kind of narrative to carry beyond that, and that it worked out so well is like 90% excellent improv and 10% sheer luck.

Like this:

Avengers 1 post credits: "Humans...they were not the cowering wretches we were promised"
Guardians 1: Thanos is literally asking Ronan to give him the power stone
Age of Ultron: "Finally...I'll do it myself" < this is when he puts on the gauntlet.

So we have plenty of evidence that Thanos was using emissaries to gather the stones. After Loki and Ronan both fail, Thanos decides to just go out there and get them himself, which sounds more efficient when you know where the stones all are, but realistically the emissaries did a lot of the legwork to get the intel. Plus, Guardians at least gives the vibe that even if you have a stone, betraying Thanos is really bad because he might be able to hold one without the gauntlet while most people would die.

actually works decently enough, though you do have to play a bit fluid with the timing of things and just kinda have to assume this stuff is a side gig for him while he and the Black Order are razing planets.
 

deimosmasque

Ugly, Queer, Gender-Fluid, Drive-In Mutant, yes?
Moderator
Apr 22, 2018
14,205
Tampa, Fl
Infinity War implied he had given up on getting all the stones until he discovered that Gamora had lied about not finding the Soul Stone.
 

Crazymoogle

Game Developer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,884
Asia
actually works decently enough, though you do have to play a bit fluid with the timing of things and just kinda have to assume this stuff is a side gig for him while he and the Black Order are razing planets.

Yeah, well I do agree that a lot of improv is involved, but the logic works pretty well that the various Marvel films sort of start a chain reaction that results in the stones all being located in short order:

1. Thanos was halving the population the hard way (razing) which netted the Mind Stone / Scepter.
2. Captain Marvel and Hydra both lead to advertising the position of the Space Stone / Tesseract.
3. Thor 2 advertises the Reality Stone / Aether and puts it in the hands of not-so-high security (The Collector)
4. Ronan is sent to take the Power Stone / Orb from Morag in exchange for helping Ronan against Xandar. (GotG)
5. Gamora is sent to find the Soul Stone but lies about it...eventually solved through Nebula torture in Infinity War.
6. Dr. Strange (1) reveals the time stone. This is the most "happenstance" situation but its pretty reasonable that between spamming it against Dormammu and fighting Kaecilius that it would show up on a scan of large power signatures.

So on purpose or not, having so many films connected to the stones gives a pretty solid paper trail.
 

T002 Tyrant

Member
Nov 8, 2018
8,966
If Wanda could give Vision super speed then I don't see why Agatha couldn't give a random guy super speed too.

Because Agatha can't do magic on autopilot it seems Agatha has to really focus.

Plus she explicitly stated that she just mind controls him and used him as eyes and ears.

It's either

- Marvel pulling an Iron Man 3 which fans aren't going to be happy with

- Kevin Figie likes Evan Peter's Quicksilver and wants him to replace ATJ and this is a good plotline to bring that version in alongside MoM for anyone else in the Fox roster to get cameos and or join the MCU.

I Iean on the latter.
 

Lord Vatek

Avenger
Jan 18, 2018
21,509
Because Agatha can't do magic on autopilot it seems Agatha has to really focus.

Plus she explicitly stated that she just mind controls him and used him as eyes and ears.

It's either

- Marvel pulling an Iron Man 3 which fans aren't going to be happy with

- Kevin Figie likes Evan Peter's Quicksilver and wants him to replace ATJ and this is a good plotline to bring that version in alongside MoM for anyone else in the Fox roster to get cameos and or join the MCU.

I Iean on the latter.
Well there is the third option in that it is Fox Quicksilver but this is his only appearance in the MCU.
 

PennyStonks

Banned
May 17, 2018
4,401
I don't see why they couldn't just do something along the lines of "oh this is Fox quicksilver(and other castings they like), The Fox movies are fictitious\exaggerated retellings of real MCU FOXverse events" it explains every possible discontinuity
 

PHOENIXZERO

Member
Oct 29, 2017
12,085
It's gonna be really awkward if Hex Vision meets White Vision.
Paul Bettany getting to finally act with someone he's dreamed to work with, Paul Bettany.😏

Honestly I expect Deadpool to cross over into the St. Elsewhere universe too. :lol



Avengers 1 post credits: "Humans...they were not the cowering wretches we were promised"
Guardians 1: Thanos is literally asking Ronan to give him the power stone
Age of Ultron: "Finally...I'll do it myself" < this is when he puts on the gauntlet.

So we have plenty of evidence that Thanos was using emissaries to gather the stones. After Loki and Ronan both fail, Thanos decides to just go out there and get them himself, which sounds more efficient when you know where the stones all are, but realistically the emissaries did a lot of the legwork to get the intel. Plus, Guardians at least gives the vibe that even if you have a stone, betraying Thanos is really bad because he might be able to hold one without the gauntlet while most people would die.
Deadpool is Tommy Westphall!
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,356
Agatha:
-kills her coven
-kills her mother
-survives by feeding off the magic of other witches
-manipulates Wanda throughout the show
-kills a dog
-kidnaps kids
-chokes kids
-has a whole villainous monologue punctuated with her almost crushing a bird to death in her bare hand and then feeding it to her familiar

"Agatha is chaotic neutral!"


WHAT?!

Again, she KILLED A DOG. There is no faster or clearer shorthand for "Evil persion" in media than animal cruelty. "The dog wasn't a real dog" is such backbending it's absurd.


Also, while I don't think it will be, I'd love Evan Peters to be nothing more than stunt casting. Theories are one thing, but the level of passion and vitriol that the whole FOX-Men thing has generated have been unbelievable.

You kinda skipped the part where her coven, lead by her mother , tried to execute her and she killed them all in self-defense.

She does manipulate Wanda... because she's trying to figure out how Wanda is holding an entire town AGAINST THEIR WILL.

She then fed a cicada to her pet.

The 'villainous monologue' wasn't even a villainous monologue. She reveals herself as the person who tried to 'gently' talk Wanda down from continuing to hurt a lot of people.

Killing the dog and taking the kids is classic chaotic nuetral action- these types of characters are typically down to use extreme and amoral methods to achieve what can reasonably considered positive or neccisary goals. Its like the roles Punisher and Sticks played in the Daredevil TV show.

In Agatha's mind, kidnapping 2 kids is worth it in order to stop a more powerful witch who has effectively kidnapped hundreds of families.

Calling her a chaotic neutral doesn't mean she isn't a bad person. It just means she hasn't been the villain of the story.

The true villains are 1) whatever is compelling Wanda to maintain the Hex and 2) Hayward
 
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Deleted member 7051

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,254
I know people keep mentioning how Agatha killing a dog is literary shorthand for "this person is evil!!!" but, I feel, that's the point. Agatha knows that. It's why she cackled after she said it. Remember that she was showing the intro to Wanda directly, so it was in lieu of a long and wordy self-introduction.

I think the kicker is that Sparky isn't even real and neither are the twins or Vision. Wanda believes they are, though, and that's the problem. Just like she believed Fietro was her twin brother. Wanda is clearly losing the ability to distinguish reality from fiction and she won't drop the Hex as long as she believes her family is real and can't survive without it. Yet she is grossly misusing Chaos Magic to maintain the Hex and there are thousands of people, hundreds of families, stuck inside the Hex and under Wanda's control and that can't be allowed to continue.

I don't believe Agatha is evil at all. I think she came to Westview out of curiosity and a desire to meet who she believed was a highly skilled wielder of magic, but upon realising what's happening there she instead began trying to force Wanda to accept reality instead of running from it. It's certainly the most practical solution of the three presented to us so far, after all - Hayward wants to kill Wanda and Monica wants to talk to her, but Agatha wants to confront her.

Tough love an' all that.
 

DeathyBoy

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,430
Under my Hela Hela
I know people keep mentioning how Agatha killing a dog is literary shorthand for "this person is evil!!!" but, I feel, that's the point. Agatha knows that. It's why she cackled after she said it. Remember that she was showing the intro to Wanda directly, so it was in lieu of a long and wordy self-introduction.

I think the kicker is that Sparky isn't even real and neither are the twins or Vision. Wanda believes they are, though, and that's the problem. Just like she believed Fietro was her twin brother. Wanda is clearly losing the ability to distinguish reality from fiction and she won't drop the Hex as long as she believes her family is real and can't survive without it. Yet she is grossly misusing Chaos Magic to maintain the Hex and there are thousands of people, hundreds of families, stuck inside the Hex and under Wanda's control and that can't be allowed to continue.

I don't believe Agatha is evil at all. I think she came to Westview out of curiosity and a desire to meet who she believed was a highly skilled wielder of magic, but upon realising what's happening there she instead began trying to force Wanda to accept reality instead of running from it. It's certainly the most practical solution of the three presented to us so far, after all - Hayward wants to kill Wanda and Monica wants to talk to her, but Agatha wants to confront her.

Tough love an' all that.

Era. A forum where if you look sideways at a dog and sneer at a child there'll be a thread, yet kill a dog and harm children in a fictional TV show and it'll be shrugged off as "not evil."
 

Joni

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,508
Era. A forum where if you look sideways at a dog and sneer at a child there'll be a thread, yet kill a dog and harm children in a fictional TV show and it'll be shrugged off as "not evil."
It is not real life, which is we cheer on McClane killing terrorists but would demand investigations for police officers doing the same wild killing in real life.
 

Deleted member 7051

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,254
Era. A forum where if you look sideways at a dog and sneer at a child there'll be a thread, yet kill a dog and harm children in a fictional TV show and it'll be shrugged off as "not evil."

Why is it so difficult to understand that they're not real? Everything inside the Hex is fake. The only things real in there are the people Wanda has imprisoned against their will.

If I'm right, as far as Agatha is concerned, she "killed" what might as well be a stuffed toy. Sparky looks like a dog, barks like a dog, but it ain't a dog. It's a facsimile of a dog, a construct of Wanda's need to have the normal family life that was taken from her. The twins are no different. They're no more real than Vision is, just a coping mechanism for Wanda so that she can avoid reality rather than face it.

Vision, the twins and Sparky are not real but the people of Westview are so if it takes a bit of tough love for Wanda to realise that what she's doing is wrong and isn't helping her or any of the thousands of people she has under her spell, then kill all the damn Sparkys you need to.

Did you see the scene where Agatha turned a bug into a bird and then her rabbit ate the bird? Are you disgusted that a bird got eaten or do you acknowledge that it was really a bug? That's the difference between reality and fiction and Wanda can no longer tell which is which.

This really shouldn't be that difficult to understand, but sure keep playing the morality police if it helps.
 

Deleted member 19844

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,500
United States
Why is it so difficult to understand that they're not real? Everything inside the Hex is fake. The only things real in there are the people Wanda has imprisoned against their will.

If I'm right, as far as Agatha is concerned, she "killed" what might as well be a stuffed toy. Sparky looks like a dog, barks like a dog, but it ain't a dog. It's a facsimile of a dog, a construct of Wanda's need to have the normal family life that was taken from her. The twins are no different. They're no more real than Vision is, just a coping mechanism for Wanda so that she can avoid reality rather than face it.

Vision, the twins and Sparky are not real but the people of Westview are so if it takes a bit of tough love for Wanda to realise that what she's doing is wrong and isn't helping her or any of the thousands of people she has under her spell, then kill all the damn Sparkys you need to.

Did you see the scene where Agatha turned a bug into a bird and then her rabbit ate the bird? Are you disgusted that a bird got eaten or do you acknowledge that it was really a bug? That's the difference between reality and fiction and Wanda can no longer tell which is which.

This really shouldn't be that difficult to understand, but sure keep playing the morality police if it helps.
I think a better point could be made that we (people in general, not Era) are much more likely to empathize and hold off on final judgement for a fictional entertaining character than we do for the real human being we encounter in the news.
 
Oct 30, 2017
13,160
Your Imagination
www.yahoo.com

‘WandaVision’ Director Expects ‘A Lot of People’ to Be ‘Disappointed’ by Finale Over Fan Theories

With so many fan theories percolating, it will be impossible for the "WandaVision" finale to satisfy every viewer.

This thread is going to melt down on Friday.
"Hey guys, y'know all those references to various Marvel characters we put in? Yeah, they mean nothing; Hex Vision defeats White Vision and then disappears, SW understands that she needs to move on, the boys are fine, Agatha dies and that's it - no Dr. Strange, no Reed, no other explanations about the Darkhold or Nexus or anything else - in fact, we aren't even sure why we put them in - sorry!!"
 

Patitoloco

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,663
www.yahoo.com

‘WandaVision’ Director Expects ‘A Lot of People’ to Be ‘Disappointed’ by Finale Over Fan Theories

With so many fan theories percolating, it will be impossible for the "WandaVision" finale to satisfy every viewer.

This thread is going to melt down on Friday.
Between this and the damage control of the cameo Paul Bettany is doing there are two options:

- lol final fight and Wanda goes back to the Avengers complex to sleep, see you in Dr. Strange 2
- THEY'RE LYING, SOMETHING MEPHISTO WOULD DO
 

WhySoDevious

Member
Oct 31, 2017
8,456
www.yahoo.com

‘WandaVision’ Director Expects ‘A Lot of People’ to Be ‘Disappointed’ by Finale Over Fan Theories

With so many fan theories percolating, it will be impossible for the "WandaVision" finale to satisfy every viewer.

This thread is going to melt down on Friday.
That's the downside of weekly releases.

There have been 9 weeks of analysis and theorizing and people coming up with possible outcomes that sometimes are much, much better than what the writers came up with.
 

Alien Bob

Member
Nov 25, 2017
2,465
"Hey guys, y'know all those references to various Marvel characters we put in? Yeah, they mean nothing; Hex Vision defeats White Vision and then disappears, SW understands that she needs to move on, the boys are fine, Agatha dies and that's it - no Dr. Strange, no Reed, no other explanations about the Darkhold or Nexus or anything else - in fact, we aren't even sure why we put them in - sorry!!"

Let's be fair now. "References."

"""""References."""""