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WandaVision | Paul Bettany is in this | Fridays on Disney+
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Honestly not a good look for Film Twitter. Like, wow, a Marvel show had one line that resonated with a lot of people and one person (maybe) had a hyperbolic reaction, and suddenly they're losing their goddamn mind. Like they do not see how insufferable and pretentious they're being?
It really comes across as: "No, you can't enjoy this thing I don't like! It's ruining everything!"
It really comes across as: "No, you can't enjoy this thing I don't like! It's ruining everything!"
Yeah, shit's annoying.
No one can show sincerity without the sarcasm police telling everyone how they're above a Marvel show. We get it, you only watch A24 films.
As someone coming from that world, lol that's pretty much a lot of people.
Hit me with your best auteurist idea that no one else can understand but pure artists.
Not necessarily. Steve left with enough Pym particles to return all the stones, travel to an alternate universe with Peggy, and then return to the prime universe. That very well may be what he did. To Sam and Bucky it would've obviously felt like just a second had past.
It's not a guaranteed thing that there was another Steve living with Peggy throughout the main MCU timeline. There could've been, but we don't know for sure. Not all timelines will play out the same. Hell, we know there is at least one where Thanos disappears before he ever gets all the stones and snaps. There are countless others where Thanos never exists at all. Or Steve for that matter. In an infinite multiverse there is a different universe for every possible permutation of reality.
Nope, i don't think they do realize how insufferable and pretentious they are.
People can be jerks but we should all be able to admit it's a corny hallmark card style line.
Pretty much every meaningful line is.
That's how Hallmark cards work.
I mean yeah, we should push for more adult lines like this:
True. Art.
Nah, speak for yourself. I thought it was a beautiful line.
I'm sure the quote will look great on some housewives kitchen wall. Or maybe it'll end up as cute pillow on an old ladies couch.
The Hallmark section isn't really where I go for deep thoughts it's where I go for cheesy platitudes - and that's totally fine - sometimes we need cornball stuff.
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Power comparisons are real stupid honestly, whoever gets the first punch in is the most powerful, there question solved XD
Wanda can straight up bend reality
Carol tanked through a massive space warship while all of it's artillery was shooting at her, the same artillery that yeeted Wanda like a ragdoll with one indirect blast
Hulk is a straight up tank
Thor is a straight up god XD
Wanda can straight up bend reality
Carol tanked through a massive space warship while all of it's artillery was shooting at her, the same artillery that yeeted Wanda like a ragdoll with one indirect blast
Hulk is a straight up tank
Thor is a straight up god XD
I mean yeah, we should push for more adult lines like this:
True. Art.
Why are you using something that was critically scorned like you're making a point?
Pretty much nobody likes that season and that scene was mercilessly mocked.
Nah I like it. It's not as great for me as it is for some but it works for me.
Dialog is meaningful through context and the audience resonating with the moment.
Which is to say, what's the amazing dialog that you can separate from the context it's placed in and it remains impactful and not saccharine in that sense? I'll wait.
The answer is most of the most meaningful lines if removed from their specific context in the film or show become like that. It depends on the person. Which is not to say this line is the turning point of dialog in all of Hollywood history, merely to point out your original post means nothing.
Sorry.
My point that I was trying to make is that just making something not sound like: "Hallmark" doesn't suddenly make it meaningful.
Maybe I don't understand the debate happening on film Twitter vs MCU people but isn't it about how amazing this singular line is? Sure if you wanna change the entire argument it does switch it up.
Ahh saw your edit. You realized it as well. Apology accepted.
Oh, the sorry was noting the harshness of pointing out that your original post was not worthwhile or meaningful in the context of the discussion. I am glad you accept that apology.
They built the entire episode - arguably season - to that line. They took us on a zany journey through eras of sitcom about the trials and tribulations of a witch and a robot to yank us down with a profoundly universal human experience. It's a superhero show with magic and armed soldiers and what people are talking about is two people in a bed talking about losing a loved one... with malcom on the middle as the background.
Saying anyone can just pull that off by writing a platitude out of context is like the smart guy looking at abstract art saying his 5 year old could do it because it is just squiggly lines.
Saying anyone can just pull that off by writing a platitude out of context is like the smart guy looking at abstract art saying his 5 year old could do it because it is just squiggly lines.
What? The context around it matters and any quote becomes pithy and trite removed from it?
Nooooooooooooooo.
Sounds like you aren't trying to engage with the actual conversation and are just moving goal posts. No one was talking about the entire story we were talking about the singular line being corny and not the "make every writer jealous" singular miracle some people said it was. Safely moving you to ignore.
No goalposts. Here's your post:
I'm saying that means nothing. You seem to have missed that. Oh well.
It's always funny and they always end up looking exactly the opposite of what they are intending.
Serious question. What separates a film snob from a pseudo film snob?
Indeed. Some folks are going to be hit by shit harder depending on how they process the show and what's going on in their lives.
In the SlashFilm weekly recap, one of the reviewers was about to cry talking about the latter part because his father just died. It hits you depending on where you are. It's a good solid line, and some random screenwriter enjoying it is fine.
Again:
This person liked the line and others agreed with her. It was not a tearing down of film history.
It'll be fine.
I still love the guy who told her:
"I'm BEGGING you to watch better media. If this is what you think is amazing writing you're missing out "
And then when asked about those: "Better media"
He listed Pacific Rim. I like that movie, but as a spectacle, not because of any sort of depth lol
Jesus Christ the replies in that. People are stupid and awful.
In my opinion, part of the film community's reaction to Wandavision in general and that line in particular shows that their complaints about the MCU are insincere.
I had a lot of problems with the last episode.
But one of them was NOT that line.
The greatest lines of dialogue are often corny, but that's because in our society acknowledging humanity and earnestness itself is seen as corny. (*cough*Snyder*cough*). We have an almost allergic response to genuine displays of emotion and fragility, and seeing those emotions validated and explored instead of reacted upon. In a lot of shitty superhero movies, emotional scenes are usually relegated to being the catalyst to get the hero/villain to do something. Go beat somebody up. Go blow something up. But Wanda and Vision just...sit in it. And watch reruns.
The MCU needs more of this.
I think the line hits because it's so fundamentally true, not just to Wanda as we've seen her develop, but just people. You grieve the most over the loss of the things you love. You grieve the loss of life because you acknowledge that people are deserving of it.
But one of them was NOT that line.
The greatest lines of dialogue are often corny, but that's because in our society acknowledging humanity and earnestness itself is seen as corny. (*cough*Snyder*cough*). We have an almost allergic response to genuine displays of emotion and fragility, and seeing those emotions validated and explored instead of reacted upon. In a lot of shitty superhero movies, emotional scenes are usually relegated to being the catalyst to get the hero/villain to do something. Go beat somebody up. Go blow something up. But Wanda and Vision just...sit in it. And watch reruns.
The MCU needs more of this.
I think the line hits because it's so fundamentally true, not just to Wanda as we've seen her develop, but just people. You grieve the most over the loss of the things you love. You grieve the loss of life because you acknowledge that people are deserving of it.
Like hey, they are blockbusters. The Marvel machine is a machine, built to pump out movies and make money. But commercial art can resonate with folks and the people behind those projects brings a certain amount of themselves to the table. And that's why it can and does work for many folks.
Instead of downplaying this, I find it better to use the MCU's resonance to bring people into what you consider better media. Sure, it some cases these ideas and concepts can be explored with more depth, but that's the thing: this is your onramp. It's much easier to say, "Hey, if you like Vision's unease about the goings on in Westview, maybe you'll also like 1967's The Prisoner." Or, "If the idea of the Hex is intriguing, you might like Annihilation or 1979's Stalker."
If you stretch just a bit, you can get someone from point A to point B. And that's fantastic. You can bring people into what you believe is better. But if they stay at point A, that's fine too. Life is hard and we're not starved for entertainment.
Instead of downplaying this, I find it better to use the MCU's resonance to bring people into what you consider better media. Sure, it some cases these ideas and concepts can be explored with more depth, but that's the thing: this is your onramp. It's much easier to say, "Hey, if you like Vision's unease about the goings on in Westview, maybe you'll also like 1967's The Prisoner." Or, "If the idea of the Hex is intriguing, you might like Annihilation or 1979's Stalker."
If you stretch just a bit, you can get someone from point A to point B. And that's fantastic. You can bring people into what you believe is better. But if they stay at point A, that's fine too. Life is hard and we're not starved for entertainment.
I'm not sure why I'm supposed to think that line's corny. If you've lost someone in your life, you understand what it means instantly. Are we gonna tell people crying at a funeral they're acting too corny next? Lmao
Maybe it's fine to be emotionally vulnerable once in a while
Maybe it's fine to be emotionally vulnerable once in a while
Which, as a teacher, is what we are always trying to do.
Seeing a student excited for anything is a window to get him excited for things he usually associate with boring or homework.
The enemy is never the student excited about what is "trite", the enemy is always apathy. As someone said, it is the sarcasm police.
That is not how snobs work. They work from the optic that if you like A, you are never worthy enough to like B.
Hmmm. My thoughts on the people of Westview being "tortured and in pain" due to Wanda, could be, perhaps the "pain" they were in was her pain, not their own.
I mean, we saw that it wasn't sunshine and lolipops she was tapping into when she created the Hex. She was at the deepest point of her despair, deeper than we even saw when Pietro was killed. All that magical energy enveloping the town and all of its residents, possibly imbuing their minds with all of that pain and grief. Monica says she was in pain as well, but it's very possible that it wasn't just her own pain that she was feeling, but Wandas. Alternatively, perhaps her energy wave enhanced each person's own pain, like the guy who was worrying about his sister, for example.
When she drove through Westview last episode, none of the residents seemed like they were happy, or enjoying an idyllic life. They all looked unhappy and unsatisfied. Perhaps as a result of the fact that after the snap and the blip, their lives were upended. Then, they're trapped in a magical Hex by Wanda, and the mental and emotional paining they were feeling at the moment the Hex was created had them stuck in that mindset, but they were unable to return to the real world, so when they get "awakened" by Vision, or snap out of the Hex, all they remember is the pain they felt.
Monica understands Wanda's pain, because she felt it, not just because she, herself, is trying to work through her own grief at losing a mother she had just literally seen still alive, moments before she was snapped and blipped. I imagine the other Westview residents are also feeling her pain, along with their own.
Not that this absolves Wanda of keeping the residents trapped in Westview, just a thought I had. For the record, I totally understand Wanda's hesitation to return Westview back to normal. She's knee deep in grief, and she's finally managed to feel some moment of peace through her fantasy world. I imagine that'd be very hard to let go of willingly. I think about those memes during the Trump presidency, where Pennywise the clown is in the sewers, saying to the person "Trump's not president down here," and the next panels show the person willingly climbing into the sewer with Pennywise, because they'd rather go with him, than deal with the Trump administration. The real world, to Wanda, is a place of seemingly endless sorrow and pain, and she actually has the power to change that for herself. So, in a moment of subconscious will, she forms the Hex, traps the people inside with her, blocks her memories of doing it, and then, due to her desperation to hold on to the perfect world she's created, is willing to keep the people trapped. She's not evil or malicious, just deeply hurting, and choosing the worst way to process that hurt. It's also how some people that are grieving lash out at loved ones trying to console them (which we saw in the bedroom scene with her and Vision, actually). It's definitely selfish of her to keep Westview hostage, but she hasn't reached "acceptance" of her grief yet. I imagine she will, and will set the townspeople free by the end of season.
What happens to her next is a mystery, though. I can see her willingly turning herself in, just not to Hayward. Maybe to Monica/Sword, or the Avengers, and this time she won't try to escape. I think she'll want to atone in some way. I'm pretty sure all of the things we're debating are the same things the writers room debated when they were brainstorming the series. I mean, that's what creative teams do all of the time. Hash out the details, ramifications, etc, etc.
I mean, we saw that it wasn't sunshine and lolipops she was tapping into when she created the Hex. She was at the deepest point of her despair, deeper than we even saw when Pietro was killed. All that magical energy enveloping the town and all of its residents, possibly imbuing their minds with all of that pain and grief. Monica says she was in pain as well, but it's very possible that it wasn't just her own pain that she was feeling, but Wandas. Alternatively, perhaps her energy wave enhanced each person's own pain, like the guy who was worrying about his sister, for example.
When she drove through Westview last episode, none of the residents seemed like they were happy, or enjoying an idyllic life. They all looked unhappy and unsatisfied. Perhaps as a result of the fact that after the snap and the blip, their lives were upended. Then, they're trapped in a magical Hex by Wanda, and the mental and emotional paining they were feeling at the moment the Hex was created had them stuck in that mindset, but they were unable to return to the real world, so when they get "awakened" by Vision, or snap out of the Hex, all they remember is the pain they felt.
Monica understands Wanda's pain, because she felt it, not just because she, herself, is trying to work through her own grief at losing a mother she had just literally seen still alive, moments before she was snapped and blipped. I imagine the other Westview residents are also feeling her pain, along with their own.
Not that this absolves Wanda of keeping the residents trapped in Westview, just a thought I had. For the record, I totally understand Wanda's hesitation to return Westview back to normal. She's knee deep in grief, and she's finally managed to feel some moment of peace through her fantasy world. I imagine that'd be very hard to let go of willingly. I think about those memes during the Trump presidency, where Pennywise the clown is in the sewers, saying to the person "Trump's not president down here," and the next panels show the person willingly climbing into the sewer with Pennywise, because they'd rather go with him, than deal with the Trump administration. The real world, to Wanda, is a place of seemingly endless sorrow and pain, and she actually has the power to change that for herself. So, in a moment of subconscious will, she forms the Hex, traps the people inside with her, blocks her memories of doing it, and then, due to her desperation to hold on to the perfect world she's created, is willing to keep the people trapped. She's not evil or malicious, just deeply hurting, and choosing the worst way to process that hurt. It's also how some people that are grieving lash out at loved ones trying to console them (which we saw in the bedroom scene with her and Vision, actually). It's definitely selfish of her to keep Westview hostage, but she hasn't reached "acceptance" of her grief yet. I imagine she will, and will set the townspeople free by the end of season.
What happens to her next is a mystery, though. I can see her willingly turning herself in, just not to Hayward. Maybe to Monica/Sword, or the Avengers, and this time she won't try to escape. I think she'll want to atone in some way. I'm pretty sure all of the things we're debating are the same things the writers room debated when they were brainstorming the series. I mean, that's what creative teams do all of the time. Hash out the details, ramifications, etc, etc.
Pretty much. They're gatekeepers who don't understand what they're trying to protect.
OP
OP
It's corny because it came from WandaVision.
This is a different discussion if that line was in like Three Billboards or some artsy shit you're "supposed" to shower with awards.
My guess is in the finale's mid-credit stinger Doctor Strange offers Wanda to be 'imprisoned' in a mirror dimension or an alternate universe, where she can live peacefully with her family, free from real world interference but also without the potential of her magic harming the real world. Segues nicely into the Multiverse of Madness movie.
Eh, that kind of sounds very DC, especially with the whole Golden-Age Superman going into a pocket dimension because he's just kind of invincible.
Honestly my biggest surprise about this show is that I actually care about both Wanda and Vision now when they were aggressively non-characters for me until now. Didn't hate them just didn't care about them, now I love them.
