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Sblargh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,926
I imagine the reasoning for Evan Peters casting is pretty straightforward.they need actor to play as Fake Pietro. It has to be recognizably fake so Aaron Taylor Johnson is out. But it's good if they can get someone that is recognizable as Pietro/quicksilver. Any random actor and the audience reaction would be who the hell is this guy. But with Evan Peters, even without any dialog or show of power, the fandom already recognize him as quicksilver.

That's not true at all.

Random person shows up at the door.

Wanda: "...Pietro?"
Darcy: "She recast Pietro?"

There. It's almost what already happened.
But casting Evan Peters gets 1000 youtube videos speculating on the multiverse only to end up being nothing and now we're just the idiots.
 

Deleted member 7051

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,254
Evan Peters being a gag is a bad gag.
Paul Bethany teasing that he is working with someone he thinks its incredible and end up being himself is a funny gag.
Quicksilver from the Fox movies playing Quicksilver from the MCU just to create media buzz is bad practice. It needs an answer or, again, it was just a bad joke.

The issue here is that you think everything has to mean something, has to have an answer. There are no coincidences in the MCU but that doesn't mean everything is setting up something else. They mentioned Stephen Strange in Winter Soldier, for example, but it doesn't mean anything. It was just a cute nod, an easter egg if you will, for people who will notice that sort of thing.

Evan Peters playing Quicksilver because he and Aaron Taylor-Johnson both played Quicksilver in different movies and were both in Kick-Ass is just one of those funny coincidences we've been sensibly chuckling at ever since both were cast six or seven years ago. The fact Evan Peters' character was himself recast and copied Kick-Ass's costume and name is just another oddly humorous part of it.

That's really all there is to it and, honestly, introducing the X-Men with the Fox characters is probably the last thing Feige actually wants to do.
 

Sblargh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,926
The issue here is that you think everything has to mean something, has to have an answer. There are no coincidences in the MCU but that doesn't mean everything is setting up something else. They mentioned Stephen Strange in Winter Soldier, for example, but it doesn't mean anything. It was just a cute nod, an easter egg if you will, for people who will notice that sort of thing.

Evan Peters playing Quicksilver because he and Aaron Taylor-Johnson both played Quicksilver in different movies and were both in Kick-Ass is just one of those funny coincidences we've been sensibly chuckling at ever since both were cast six or seven years ago. The fact Evan Peters' character was himself recast and copied Kick-Ass's costume and name is just another oddly humorous part of it.

That's really all there is to it and, honestly, introducing the X-Men with the Fox characters is probably the last thing Feige actually wants to do.

This is different from Strange being mentioned on Winter Soldier. It doesn't change how we interpret the story or how we view the characters. No one is thinking Captain America was Johnny Storm on a previous life because of Strange being mentioned.

If "the last thing" you want to do is introduce the X-Men with the Fox characters, you don't get a literal Fox character to show up.
I always said from the start that I did not wanted this show to have anything to do with mutants because it steals the spotlight from the main character of this show. Once you bring mutants into the equation, next thing you know is a bunch of people hyped to see magneto showing up and this show should never be about trying to guess when Magneto is going to show up. But it did became that for some people because of casting.
It's not cute or funny, it is creating expectation on the fan base only to deflate it.

Okay, so what will your reaction be if he is Fox Pietro after all?

I think it will be an awful way to introduce mutants and the multiverse, but he not being fox pietro is also a horrible way to play with the audience. My point being, this casting should not have happened, but now it did, Marvel made its bed and it has to follow through.
 

Jest

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,565
Contrary to popular belief, the definition of retcon is solely about the change of established past events of a story in a second moment, regardless of contradiction. Noncontradictory additions still qualify the definition of retcon if it can be proven they were decided after the original events were published instead of being preplanned for a twist since day one

the problem is that in some places retcon has a negative connotation because most of the time induces plot holes, but is actually a very neutral thing that depends on the ability of the writer to pull it off in a quality manner

Nah. In the past... when an event was clarified after the fact without contradicting anything that had been stated or shown before that point... it was literally just more detail. Or at most a "clever twist" narratively. Retcon specifically came about to reference retroactively changing the continuity.

There's a grey area, colloquially, when discussing stuff that was changed after the fact without having been planned to begin with (Vader) but you're essentially saying that any new details to an event in the past is a retcon and that's waaaaay too large a brush to paint with.

I think it will be an awful way to introduce mutants and the multiverse, but he not being fox pietro is also a horrible way to play with the audience. My point being, this casting should not have happened, but now it did, Marvel made its bed and it has to follow through.

Most of the audience doesn't know or care. Most of the audience doesn't know cast members names unless there's memes or news stories. Most of the audience isn't aware of the most obvious easter eggs. Most of the audience doesn't watch Youtube speculation channels.
 
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Gay Bowser

Member
Oct 30, 2017
17,707
I imagine the reasoning for Evan Peters casting is pretty straightforward.they need actor to play as Fake Pietro. It has to be recognizably fake so Aaron Taylor Johnson is out. But it's good if they can get someone that is recognizable as Pietro/quicksilver. Any random actor and the audience reaction would be who the hell is this guy. But with Evan Peters, even without any dialog or show of power, the fandom already recognize him as quicksilver.

The audio description track specifically says he's "Pietro from the X-Men movies."
 

J-Skee

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,107
I think that it is the Fox Quicksilver, but it's about tampering with the multiverse, not necessarily introducing the X-Men. Agatha pulled him out of his universe & manipulated his mind. There will be consequences for playing with the multiverse in that way.
 

Gay Bowser

Member
Oct 30, 2017
17,707
I think that it is the Fox Quicksilver, but it's about tampering with the multiverse, not necessarily introducing the X-Men. Agatha pulled him out of his universe & manipulated his mind.

Yup. Agatha actually alluded to the fact that she couldn't just bring MCU Pietro back because he was six feet underground. So she got creative.

I thought it was a super fun way to introduce the idea of the multiverse, personally. It's like they took a little bit of weirdness and trivia and made meat out of it.
 

Daphne

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,690
Maybe it's because I'm going through some real shit at the moment, but Vision's line about grief being love persevering really hit me hard as a deeply beautiful sentiment. What an utterly lovely line.
 

Deleted member 7051

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,254
Okay, so what will your reaction be if he is Fox Pietro after all?

It's fine if he is and it's fine if he isn't. It's not really that big of a deal, either way, because it doesn't impact on the story being told in Wandavision at all.

If the rumours are true and Marvel really is bringing back Tobey Maguire and Andrew Garfield, then clearly they're open to the possibility that any Marvel franchise exists somewhere in the multiverse. That would possibly mean that the Fox X-Men movies are part of it, too, so Evan Peters being the real Quicksilver from that universe works.

Yet, at the same time, I'm sure Marvel is being cautious. Do they really want to "canonise" so much mediocre material? It's one thing to have J.K. Simmons or Evan Peters show up in the MCU playing the same character they did in other franchises, or to keep Ryan Reynolds around to play Deadpool, but I would honestly be very surprised if the final episode of WandaVision ended with a bald James McAvoy showing up in a wheelchair.

And yet, clearly, some folks here won't be happy unless he does.
 

Jest

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,565
Maybe it's because I'm going through some real shit at the moment, but Vision's line about grief being love persevering really hit me hard as a deeply beautiful sentiment. What an utterly lovely line.

It absolutely is a gorgeous sentiment in giving a positive context to what is often looked at as a negative thing. And there's a simplistic truth to it. People do not grieve, not truly, things that they do not love.
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,358
They never mentioned multiverse shenanigans with this show. It certainly wasn't said to be considered the introduction. It leads into the Doctor Strange 2, yes, but only because Wanda is in both. It's no real different to how Ant-Man 2 leads into Endgame - I expect Wanda may be integral to solving whatever crisis Strange faces, but that's totally different to expecting multiverse shenanigans in Wandavision just because Doctor Strange 2 has "multiverse" in the subtitle.

The Evan Peters thing is just a gag or a red herring. They know folks on the internet will overanalyse everything and even poked fun at that with Woo's whiteboard, so why not bring Quicksilver back but have him played by the wrong one? I mean they even mentioned Kick-Ass twice and implied that's where Wanda subconsciously recognises Fietro from, which is another gag because both Quicksilver actors were in it.

it's leading into a movie called the multiverse of madness. It doesn't mean their WILL be multiverse shenanigans in Wandavision. But when you pull in a guy who played Quicksilver in a different universe, to "play Quicksilver" in the lead up to Multiverse of madness, it's not leap to think this could be more than a gag. Having other related selfaware gags in a tv show featuring a tv show with other selfaware gags isn't a confirmation of Fietro's origins.


That's the thing though, it doesn't need to have a narrative reason. I'm perfectly happy with it being a meta reference in a show about meta references. Although I do think it's a waste of Evan Peters if he's not something else, him being Fox Quicksilver just brings in so much extra baggage that distracts from the actual themes in the show.

I agree it doesn't NEED a narrative reason, but this particular casting made without narrative reason is far more contrived.

How would using this show to expand their already existent multiverse concept to include Fox properties bring baggage or detract from the show's themes?

It's just one supporting character plucked from a parallel universe- an already established mechanic in this franchise. The previous gags still work. The show themes unchanged.
 
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Readler

Member
Oct 6, 2018
1,972
Maybe it's because I'm going through some real shit at the moment, but Vision's line about grief being love persevering really hit me hard as a deeply beautiful sentiment. What an utterly lovely line.
Same. I seriously didn't expect it to cut that hard.

Call it corny, cheesy, whatever, I love that line.
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,358
I imagine the reasoning for Evan Peters casting is pretty straightforward.they need actor to play as Fake Pietro. It has to be recognizably fake so Aaron Taylor Johnson is out. But it's good if they can get someone that is recognizable as Pietro/quicksilver. Any random actor and the audience reaction would be who the hell is this guy. But with Evan Peters, even without any dialog or show of power, the fandom already recognize him as quicksilver.

choosing someone the audience recognizes as a different quicksilver is nonsensical if by the end of it you want the audience to accept that the character onscreen has no relation to any quicksilver in any universe what so ever.

I can only imagine that MOST of the audiences reaction was "who the hell is this guy" any way. Especially since Darcy said "she recast Peitro" . Then people , by design, went to the discussion board and learned that he played a different incarnation of quicksilver and started speculating about the possibilities.

it would be a pretty cruel joke in a show designed to get fans playing the mystery game.

I can accept the possibility that it's all a JUST a gag. But I think that would be a massive missed opportunity.
 

Ignatz Mouse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,741
Any later addition to past events is a retcon, it just isn't bad if it's not contradictory with what is already established.
For it to be a retcon rather than spotting contradiction you need to be able to tell if it's something that the writer decided later instead of being part of the plan all along (e.g. Vader baing Luke's father all along was a retcon because we know the writers decided on it during ESB and in ANH he really was just menat to be an elite enforcer of the Empire that killed Luke's father)

Yup, the original definition of retcon is something conceived later that's added in which retroactively changes what we know. This is how it was initially used when it was coined on rec.arts.comics back on usenet.

Wanda having powers before the Mind Stone is classic retcon.
 

T'Chakku

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,590
Toronto
Yeah, I said it a week or so back and I'll say it again. Evans' being Pietro isn't just an empty, meaningless gag. There's a narrative reason that will be revealed to us.

We even have Wanda, Pietro and Agatha all acknowledging that he isn't ATJ. That 'he looks different.'
 

Edge

A King's Landing
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,012
Celle, Germany
Listen.

I want to see Magneto just like everyone else here.
But there's just this one big problem, and it's that it wouldn't make sense. It just wouldn't.
In character, Magneto doesn't know that he's the father of Quicksilver (Or Wanda), his appearance would have no reason. If it would be the other way around and this would be a Magneto TV Series and then we get a Pietro appearance, that makes sense, cause we as audience know that he knows he's related and that could be the moment where he tells him that. But here? I can't see how this would make sense.

Professor X on the other hand as "Let me tell you about Mutants" moment, that also would make sense.
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,358
This is different from Strange being mentioned on Winter Soldier. It doesn't change how we interpret the story or how we view the characters. No one is thinking Captain America was Johnny Storm on a previous life because of Strange being mentioned.

If "the last thing" you want to do is introduce the X-Men with the Fox characters, you don't get a literal Fox character to show up.
I always said from the start that I did not wanted this show to have anything to do with mutants because it steals the spotlight from the main character of this show. Once you bring mutants into the equation, next thing you know is a bunch of people hyped to see magneto showing up and this show should never be about trying to guess when Magneto is going to show up. But it did became that for some people because of casting.
It's not cute or funny, it is creating expectation on the fan base only to deflate it.



I think it will be an awful way to introduce mutants and the multiverse, but he not being fox pietro is also a horrible way to play with the audience. My point being, this casting should not have happened, but now it did, Marvel made its bed and it has to follow through.

I think this is a overreaction.

we've had countless crossover reveals in the MCU that are minor, yet exciting details, that don't really impact the consumption of the story they occur in, yet act as blocks to build on in the future.

this wouldn't be necessarily be the grand introduction to mutants or even signal that Fox's universe will ultimately be merged with the MCU. They could simply say this guy was plucked from a parallel universe, then tossed back. The gags still works. The possibility of using Fox characters in the future still exists, or they could go on a completely different path for introducing Mutants into the MCU permanently.

that's the beauty of the multiverse: You can completely isolate a parallel universe as needed, or tap into it as needed. Fox's universe can still be its own separate entity that the MCU tapped into once.

the Idea that the "spotlight would be stolen" by Fietro being a fox X-man is a massive leap IMO. People would meme about it, call Marvel mad lads, then go back to enjoying everything about the show for what it is.
 
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Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,960
Personally, I'm not very much interested in the "X-Men/Mutants" theory crafting...because there isn't much theory there to craft. I mean, fans are going to be fans and speculate, and that's fine. But the show itself isn't really doing that.

I stopped bothering with the speculation after the Halloween episode when it was shown that Fietro's memories weren't real. They weren't MCU or FOX Pietro's memories. And since then Feige has come out and said that Even Peters' casting was more a wink to the fans, but that's it. And, when you think of the context of the show's sitcom framing, it makes sense: Pietro was introduced and treated like a guest star on a show that breaks the fourth wall every episode. And the show hasn't really tried to give us much more than that since.

Again, not invested, so if mutants do get introduced somehow...heh, look at that. But the show itself hasn't really done much to build this up, and with one episode to go and so many questions left to answer, I do think mutants would be a bit hollow at this point.
 
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Callibretto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,492
Indonesia
Listen.

I want to see Magneto just like everyone else here.
But there's just this one big problem, and it's that it wouldn't make sense. It just wouldn't.
In character, Magneto doesn't know that he's the father of Quicksilver (Or Wanda), his appearance would have no reason. If it would be the other way around and this would be a Magneto TV Series and then we get a Pietro appearance, that makes sense, cause we as audience know that he knows he's related and that could be the moment where he tells him that. But here? I can't see how this would make sense.

Professor X on the other hand as "Let me tell you about Mutants" moment, that also would make sense.
The way I see it, any cameo that takes the focus away from Wanda dealing with her grief is not too welcomed. The most I'll accept if it's just small post credit cameo
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,358
Personally, I'm not very much interested in the "X-Men/Mutants" theory crafting...because there isn't much theory there to craft. I mean, fans are going to be fans and speculate, and that's fine. But the show itself isn't really doing that.

I stopped bothering with the speculation after the Halloween episode when it was shown that Fietro's memories weren't real. They weren't MCU or FOX Pietro's memories. And since then Feige has come out and said that Even Peters' casting was more a wink to the fans, but that's it. And, when you think of the context of the show's sitcom framing, it makes sense: Pietro was introduced and treated like a guest star on a show that breaks the fourth wall every episode. And the show hasn't really tried to give us much more than that since.

Again, not invested, so if mutants do get introduced somehow...heh, look at that. But the show itself hasn't really done much to build this up, and with one episode to go and so many questions left to answer, I do think mutants would be a bit hollow at this point.

Everyone in the Hex involuntarily is under mind control. Fietro's memories being fake don't impact any of these theories in any way.
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,960
Everyone in the Hex involuntarily is under mind control. Fietro's memories being fake don't impact any of these theories in any way.

Fietro has at no point in the show acted mind controlled. That he knew everyone else was and that Wanda was responsible was the whole weird thing about him other than Even Peters doing the role.

You could argue that Fietro was being mind controlled to act like he wasn't mind controlled. But then we're hopping out of the weeds and right into the bushes, imo.
 

DeathyBoy

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,430
Under my Hela Hela
Fietro has at no point in the show acted mind controlled. That he knew everyone else was and that Wanda was responsible was the whole weird thing about him other than Even Peters doing the role.

You could argue that Fietro was being mind controlled to act like he wasn't mind controlled. But then we're hopping out of the weeds and right into the bushes.

Uh huh, is that why he stopped Monica going into the basement and Agatha said she was possessing him?
 

Galkinator

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,959
Seems kinda weird Agatha can pull someone from an alternate universe, but not re-animate a corpse.
I'm team stunt casting on this Fietro shenanigans.
 

Ignatz Mouse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,741
Nah. In the past... when an event was clarified after the fact without contradicting anything that had been stated or shown before that point... it was literally just more detail. Or at most a "clever twist" narratively. Retcon specifically came about to reference retroactively changing the continuity.

Retcon, as originally used in reference to comics, was applied to a comic* which bent over backwards to not contradict past stories (and in fact tried to make sense of some past contradictions). It doesn't have to contradict the past work to be a retcon, it just has to change what was believed to be true, and not have been part of an original plan.

*All-Star Squadron, brainchild of Roy Thomas, who was rather obsessed with the idea of adding to past continuity without violating it. And coincidentally, creator of The Vision.

Retcon ls certainly can contradict past continuity outright, but it's not inherent in the term. It just happens a lot. An artful retcon avoids contradictions and may even make past stories make more sense then they used to.
 
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Entryhazard

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,843
Nah. In the past... when an event was clarified after the fact without contradicting anything that had been stated or shown before that point... it was literally just more detail. Or at most a "clever twist" narratively. Retcon specifically came about to reference retroactively changing the continuity.

There's a grey area, colloquially, when discussing stuff that was changed after the fact without having been planned to begin with (Vader) but you're essentially saying that any new details to an event in the past is a retcon and that's waaaaay too large a brush to paint with.
This is clearly a change done in a second moment about her past because clearly real magic was not what they meant to do with her in Age of Ultron, that still was in the "maGic iS ALieN SCieNce" era of the MCU. That it doesn't really contradict what was already established makes it a not bad retcon, but the "we went back and modified the established backstory" is definitely there
 

Deleted member 19844

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,500
United States
AND WANDA'S HERO NAME IS FINALLY DROPPED

Oh, shit, the after-credits scene. I was wondering what happened to the original body, guess Heyward made the White Vision from it. (Vision being rebuilt as a pure white emotionless robot is something that happened in the comics, btw, because a writer at the time seemed to have it out for Vision.)
What ultimately happens with white vision in the comics? (If it's easy to summarize.)
 

Ignatz Mouse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,741
Listen.

I want to see Magneto just like everyone else here.
But there's just this one big problem, and it's that it wouldn't make sense. It just wouldn't.
In character, Magneto doesn't know that he's the father of Quicksilver (Or Wanda), his appearance would have no reason. If it would be the other way around and this would be a Magneto TV Series and then we get a Pietro appearance, that makes sense, cause we as audience know that he knows he's related and that could be the moment where he tells him that. But here? I can't see how this would make sense.

Professor X on the other hand as "Let me tell you about Mutants" moment, that also would make sense.

I really really dont want to see Magneto, but I did hope that Fietro was pulled from the Fox universe for his speed.

That seems less likely now than it did an episode ago.
 

Heynongman!

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,928
Seems kinda weird Agatha can pull someone from an alternate universe, but not re-animate a corpse.
I'm team stunt casting on this Fietro shenanigans.
She said she couldn't reanimate Pietro because his body was in another continent, not that she couldn't reanimate him. I think there's a subtle difference there. Anyway, the Nexus stuff still hasn't come to light after being name dropped last episode, so I'm assuming multiverse shenanigans begin next episode to lead us into DS2
 

Galkinator

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,959
Wanda summons him, Agatha possesses him before he can make contact. Simple.
How did she summon him though? When she created the hex she used (what seems like) all of her powers and specifically wished for having "the perfect life" with Vision.
Did she just pull him from the multiverse subconsciously? Seems like a stretch
 

Jodez99

Member
Jan 1, 2018
3,611
Starting to doubt that the show is gonna tie into Doc Strange 2 directly. It's linked because there's witches and magic involved and that could be the whole connection
 

Muitnorts

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,144
I definitely think it would be really shitty if they got Evans to play a 'nobody' acting as Pietro just to fuck with the audience.
I don't even really want the FoX-Men to be referenced or to be accessible in the multiverse but if it's not that it's the worst kind of stunt casting.
 

Sblargh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,926
What ultimately happens with white vision in the comics? (If it's easy to summarize.)

Vision in the comics has a "soul" because he has the brainwaves of a human, the Wonder-Man Simon Willians, he turns white because they build him back after being destroyed without such brain waves, eventually he gets it back, but by then, his marriage with Wanda is over and the twins are gone.
So the new status quo after Vision gets his personality again is that they and Wanda are divorced and without kids.
 

DeathyBoy

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,430
Under my Hela Hela
How did she summon him though? When she created the hex she used (what seems like) all of her powers and specifically wished for having "the perfect life" with Vision.
Did she just pull him from the multiverse subconsciously? Seems like a stretch

Monica mentioned her brother, Wanda got sad, and subconsciously she yanked some alternate version of her brother to Westview. Only Agatha intercepts him, mind controls him, and then when Wanda dumps him he goes to Agatha.
 

Entryhazard

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,843
Monica mentioned her brother, Wanda got sad, and subconsciously she yanked some alternate version of her brother to Westview. Only Agatha intercepts him, mind controls him, and then when Wanda dumps him he goes to Agatha.
you're still missing the part where Peter is not really connected to Pietro because it's an entirely different reality instead of a "mirror universe", it would be ontologically closer to pull a Pietro from one of the timelines spawned in Endgame
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,358
Fietro has at no point in the show acted mind controlled. That he knew everyone else was and that Wanda was responsible was the whole weird thing about him other than Even Peters doing the role.

You could argue that Fietro was being mind controlled to act like he wasn't mind controlled. But then we're hopping out of the weeds and right into the bushes, imo.

He's explicitly under Agatha's spell

you're still missing the part where Peter is not really connected to Pietro because it's an entirely different reality instead of a "mirror universe", it would be ontologically closer to pull a Pietro from one of the timelines spawned in Endgame

Reality, universe, timeline - these are as interchangeable as Marvel wants them to be.