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Sblargh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,926
I love soft sweet civilian vision so much

LOOK AT THIS SHIT

image.png

I told y'all, the headband is cool, some of you mocked me, but here it is, we need the headband or it isn't the scarlet witch.
 

Anaron

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,645
This kind of deep dive and spae for reflection is exactly what superhero productions mostly miss out on. I guess the people complaining here have been conditioned by CBM to expect all scenes to move the plot forward, but that's a bad thing, it's bad filmmaking, and stopping up to breathe is a good thing.

Making time to give characters space to talk to each other.

Yes, we know the PLOT referred to in these flashbacks for the most part. But we haven't seen the toll it takes, or the connections formed, or the characters speak about it.

Seeing Wanda with her family is VALUABLE. Seeing her and Vision confront the loss of her brother is VALUABLE. There's value in getting to know characters and how they cope and how they connect.
THANK YOU

I love soft sweet civilian vision so much

LOOK AT THIS SHIT

image.png
Chills were had when this popped up
 

YourFriend

Member
Nov 15, 2017
195
So we still need to see what Evan Peters character is and what happened to Monica, who the missing person was, what is motivating Hayward to do what he is doing to Wanda, what happens with the visions, what happens to their sons, what exactly is the magic book, and what significance does the Scarlet Witch Chaos Magic have to Agatha... that's a lot for one more episode.
 

sandyph

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,038
I mean all he showed was her breaking the door open. Which she did. He just conveniently left out the part where she left peacefully and drove away afterwards.

and said she stole Vision's body....

I don't buy Agnes being well intentioned here. She has the ability to act like a vampire to other magic users judging by the opening. She's pissed she's using it for goofy and petty means. She wants the power for herself.

I think her end game is to resurrect her mother. she doesn't looks like she wanted to kill her in the opening. and she keep asking how wanda bring people back from the dead
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
92,991
Agatha seemed unsatisfied with the explanation of "the mind stone boosted her latent powers", but then after the final flashback she seemed like she had that question answered? I hope we'll get a little more on this, because that wasn't cleanly resolved at all.

The last episode needs to be feature length to tie all this shit up. I fear it's either going to be very rushed, or we're going to have to wait for Doctor Strange 2.
I don't think she knows the full scope of the Infinity gems.
 

amusix

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
1,593
Fucking loved the whole SWORD sequence. Hayward making her stay out in the lobby while he rushed to set up the theater of 'visions operation'....his words consistently guiding her into anger...planting the seed of revivifying Vision in her mind....and all of it being thwarted by a beautiful callback to Wanda and Vision's moments in Infinity War. Having it all hinge on "I feel only you" was wonderful.
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,911
Anyone who has suffered through loss, especially a tragic and unexpected loss, can understand how Wanda could go to such a dark place.

I totally get that. The only problem is, there are victims here. Thousands of them.

I was rocking with the theory that the citizens of Westview were under some sort of hypnotic effect and they weren't actually experiencing what was happening. Then episode 4 happened. And since then, the show has told us, over and over again, that the people under Wanda's magic are aware of their bodies being controlled and are essentially being traumatized.

I don't see how Wanda escapes repercussions for this when all is said and done. And I'm wondering if that's the setup for Doctor Strange 2.

But other than that, I overall enjoyed the episode. And I wish actually giving us character exposition was something the MCU did more of.
 

Gay Bowser

Member
Oct 30, 2017
17,567
That was an awesome episode. I legit don't understand people.

We got a deep dive into Wanda's trauma, and each scene was really emotional and heartfelt. Elizabeth Olson has been killing it with Wanda, and I'm never going to view her scenes in AoU, CW, IW and Endgame the same again.

These are the types of things that we'd love to have gotten since her debut into the MCU, but, naturally, there's only so much you can fit into an ensemble film.

Yeah, this episode was fantastic.
 

Critch

Banned
Dec 10, 2017
1,360
I'm confused... So Westview, NJ really does exist? Or is that a SWORD fabrication? And why would SWORD know that Wanda was capable of altering reality or "bringing Vision back online" in the first place?

Westview does exist. It's where Vision bought a plot of land so they could have a house together.

Which doesn't really add up with where they were in Infinity War, does it? They were together, but only just figuring out that they worked well.
 

Azerare

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,713
So we still need to see what Evan Peters character is and what happened to Monica, who the missing person was, what is motivating Hayward to do what he is doing to Wanda, what happens with the visions, what happens to their sons, what exactly is the magic book, and what significance does the Scarlet Witch Chaos Magic have to Agatha... that's a lot for one more episode.
This is what I'm thinking a lot about. That and Doctor Strange is supposed to show up too, right?
Is the last episode going to be longer or the same length?
 

lorddarkflare

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,245
This kind of deep dive and spae for reflection is exactly what superhero productions mostly miss out on. I guess the people complaining here have been conditioned by CBM to expect all scenes to move the plot forward, but that's a bad thing, it's bad filmmaking, and stopping up to breathe is a good thing.

Making time to give characters space to talk to each other.

Yes, we know the PLOT referred to in these flashbacks for the most part. But we haven't seen the toll it takes, or the connections formed, or the characters speak about it.

Seeing Wanda with her family is VALUABLE. Seeing her and Vision confront the loss of her brother is VALUABLE. There's value in getting to know characters and how they cope and how they connect.

This is the kind of episode that firmly establishes the show as weighty, meaty and a great work.

That is sort of insulting.

Wanting to expand on and work on Wanda is brilliant, and definitely something the show should do. The way it approached it was hamfisted, dull, and clunky.

The problem is not that the plot did not move forward, it is that the singular character-driven episode we are bound to get is a mess.

Honestly, without Hanh, I think it could have worked.
 

KartuneDX

Banned
Jan 12, 2018
2,381
Between "it was all a bad dream in the end" and "what is grief if not love persevering?" Are people seriously calling this bad? This really might've been the perfect penultimate episode.
 

Loke13

Member
Oct 26, 2019
136
Darcy's entire character - both here and in the Thor films - was to be the comedic relief that dropped exposition. It's still a tad clunky, but at least it felt organic when she was doing it. Literally stopping after every flashback to go "okay, so, your parents died, your brother died, and then Vision died" is just unnecessary. You just showed us a five minute flashback, we don't need Agatha to walk over and summarize what just happened in it.

Shit, folks in this thread were praising last week's reveal because they handled the exposition dump in a funny way with a silly song rather than a laborious monologue, now we're all in support of the laborious monologue?

Criticism of a thing you like isn't blind hatred, y'all. We've spent the last seven weeks hyping up this show, and now one episode doesn't hit the spot for everyone and we're dropping ad-hominem shade? Let's not get "Star Wars thread" up in here.
Oh please. How on earth was the exposition clunky? This entire show is built around Wanda's grief just because YOU didn't NEED this episode doesn't mean this episode wasn't needed.

Comic book fans are the worst sometime.
 

PRrambo_

PlayStation.jif
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,852
I knew it wasn't the same Quicksilver from the X-Men movies, just a cheeky lil casting on Marvel's part.
 

Rellyrell28

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,876
Okay so did Vision like buy a house in Westview for them before he died(At first I though this didn't make since then I realized he wasn't ever on the run like Wanda) and Heyward decide have someone leave it in her car? Or did some other outside force put in her car or even made up the deed? I'm thinking the former but just want to know.

Also the episode was great as like episode 4 it filled in some questions only on a grander scale then episode 4. The only thing I didn't like was no Monica in the episode just one week removed from getting her powers.
 

Sblargh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,926
Vision's line about love and grief up there with him talking to Ultron about beauty.
Vision is the pure force of good on this universe. AND FUCKING HAYWARD TURNED THAT BEAUTIFUL SOUL INTO A MURDERBOT.
 

Keywork

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,125
Excellent episode. It really handled her grief and trauma a lot better than how "Endgame" handled Thor's with turning his weight gain and alcoholism into a joke for the audience. There was a small part of me hoping Agatha when she said "You're the Scarlet Witch" was going to say "You're a mutant".
 

HotHamBoy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
16,423
Hoo boy, did they drop the ball on the execution, here. That was some clunky, ham-fisted shit.

The first half was particularly unfortunate. From the opening scene to the kids watching the TV by the bomb, talk about sweaty.
 

Loke13

Member
Oct 26, 2019
136
Between "it was all a bad dream in the end" and "what is grief if not love persevering?" Are people seriously calling this bad? This really might've been the perfect penultimate episode.
Agreed. Like jfc thia was such a good episode for Wanda's character and Elizabeth acted her ASS off. People labeling this ep as "unnecessary" are really missing the point of this show.
 

LinkStrikesBack

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,345
She's gonna have to kill him AGAIN?
Oh my god
Oh no
I can't
I can't
I just
I can't

That's a very pessimistic outlook. I wouldn't be surprised if they try that angle for the start of the episode, but now we have a functioning real vision body and a copy of visions consciousness generated by Wanda that can't exist outside of the hex because the body is an illusion created by her magic.

Add the two together and boom, a way to get her a real vision back.
 

JigglesBunny

Prophet of Truth
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
31,044
Chicago
We didn't *needed it*, but it was powerful character moments, imo.
It wasn't an utilitarian exposition to show you what happened (like I joked before the episode it would be Agatha explaining things on a monologue), I can't explain in terms other than I am still shaking, ever since that bomb dropped and her loving family doing their best in a horrible civil war got wiped out instantly, that's powerful, I'm sorry you didn't feel it, the bomb scene and she getting to a deserted lot where she was supposed to spend the rest of her life with her loved one? That's a lot.
It's not that I feel like it was all emotionless, it just felt so redundant. We knew a lot of the information, and it would have been great to stew in it, but not when Agatha is touring us through everything, repeating everything that's happening in front of us and belaboring the points. It weakens the impact.
This kind of deep dive and spae for reflection is exactly what superhero productions mostly miss out on. I guess the people complaining here have been conditioned by CBM to expect all scenes to move the plot forward, but that's a bad thing, it's bad filmmaking, and stopping up to breathe is a good thing.

Making time to give characters space to talk to each other.

Yes, we know the PLOT referred to in these flashbacks for the most part. But we haven't seen the toll it takes, or the connections formed, or the characters speak about it.

Seeing Wanda with her family is VALUABLE. Seeing her and Vision confront the loss of her brother is VALUABLE. There's value in getting to know characters and how they cope and how they connect.

This is the kind of episode that firmly establishes the show as weighty, meaty and a great work of television.
There's a lot of value in those scenes, sure, but the execution just left a lot to be desired for me. I knew we'd inevitably reach the point where we let Wanda reflect on the trauma she's been dealing with, but to go from traumatic scene, to traumatic scene, to traumatic scene, only stopping to let Kathryn Hahn take stock of what we literally just saw, felt like the opposite of "letting the story breathe."

You could keep everything here, but maybe frame it as Wanda mentally taking stock of what led to this moment in Agatha's basement. She's under a spell and reliving the moments we saw here, maybe with Agatha's voice creeping in from off screen, goading her, but never repeating what we're seeing or hamming it up when we just watched a child lose her parents to an explosion. At the end, Wanda hears her children calling out for help in the distance and she rushes out into the street for the confrontation with Agatha. Literally keeps everything that worked in this episodes and jettisons the hamfisted delivery method that made it feel so abundantly clear that the writers were saying "and this is the episode where we spell it all out!"

I wanted to feel the impact of those flashbacks. I wanted to stew in the heartache and the anger that Wanda was reliving. Instead, I felt like I was watching a slideshow presentation delivered by a professor who is rushing through the beats to get to the end of class.
Oh please. How on earth was the exposition clunky? This entire show is built around Wanda's grief just because YOU didn't NEED this episode doesn't mean this episode wasn't needed.

Comic book fans are the worst sometime.
You did the exact thing I said and went for the pointless shade throwing. I didn't dislike the episode because "where's muh CG battles," shit, that's the whole reason I like this show in the first place. It was a slow, methodical, tense drama about a character working through grief and there was a central mystery behind it all. An episode dedicated to exposition is fine, but only if it was handled well, which I didn't feel like this was.

For fucks sake, man. Do you all really think that if you don't love and agree with everything about the show then you're some ignorant asshole with a short attention span? Entertainment is subjective, and this episode doesn't work for me, not because of what it set out to do, but because of how it did it. That's not ignorance on my part, it's my opinion. Knock off the echo-chamber, dog piling, ad-hominem shit.

I'm out of this thread for now. Enjoy the episode, y'all.
 
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GuitarGuruu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,465
So essentially Vision's body is a Weapon now right or at least that's how I interpreted it.

Also damn this episode was dark as hell all the way through to the very end, I really don't know how I will not be chomping at the bit for more after one more episode but we will see!
 

trimin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
663
Count me in as a fan of this episode. Probably my favorite besides 5. I really like the heartfelt moments and that it takes a pause to explore the actual substance of the show. But I was always one for character moments over flash and gimmicks.
 

sredgrin

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,276
Agatha specifically said that she possessed him so she had to get him from somewhere

She clearly doesn't have the ability to tear holes in reality, she spends the entire episode basically complaining that she did all the book stuff, but this new girl has all the raw talent.

Still possible Wanda I guess tore him from another reality, but everything about this episode suggests, if he is Fox Pietro, Agatha isn't responisble for bringing him there.
 

Anth0ny

Member
Oct 25, 2017
46,766
This kind of deep dive and spae for reflection is exactly what superhero productions mostly miss out on. I guess the people complaining here have been conditioned by CBM to expect all scenes to move the plot forward, but that's a bad thing, it's bad filmmaking, and stopping up to breathe is a good thing.

Making time to give characters space to talk to each other.

Yes, we know the PLOT referred to in these flashbacks for the most part. But we haven't seen the toll it takes, or the connections formed, or the characters speak about it.

Seeing Wanda with her family is VALUABLE. Seeing her and Vision confront the loss of her brother is VALUABLE. There's value in getting to know characters and how they cope and how they connect.

This is the kind of episode that firmly establishes the show as weighty, meaty and a great work of television.

well said. loved this episode.

Wanda watching Malcolm in the Middle is the closest we're gonna get to seeing Bryan Cranston in The MCU.

hey they gotta cast dr doom sooner or later :)
 

Joni

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,508
I don't think I have ever felt so connected to a piece of the MCU as with Wanda in this episode.
And damn, it does turn the twist of the last episode on its head. Agatha still the bad guy?
 

Kain

Unshakable Resolve - One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
7,592
I was thinking that this thread should be renamed "Children of the atom", but maybe it's too soon 🤔