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WandaVision | Paul Bettany is in this | Fridays on Disney+

Deleted member 30544

User Requested Account Closure
Banned
Nov 3, 2017
5,215
I didn't know that Agatha character so i did a quick google and it appears she is a very old witch who uses actual magic. So time for Dr Strange?

Off topic: in this episode Olsen looked particularly beautiful don't know why.
 
Okabe

Okabe

Is Sometimes A Good Bean
Member
Aug 24, 2018
19,941
God that song is just stuck in my head from last night .

It was mutants all along! 🎵🎵
 
Luke_wal

Luke_wal

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,256
My understanding with Wanda has always been that she's not actually magic. Like, her powers are telepathic/telekinetic and apparently now reality-warping in nature, but I thought that in the MCU (or Marvel in general), "Magic" referred to Dr. Strange, his fancy circles, his sparks, and all those hand motions (for example, the Sling Ring).

Now, I see Agatha referring to Wanda's abilities interchangeably as magic, as well as her own abilities, which look a lot more like what Wanda can do, but just purple, rather than Dr Strange/Ancient One and their circles. So what am I missing here? Are Agatha and Strange's magic different, is it the same magic in different forms, or is what Agatha can do not actually magic?

I'm saying all of this as someone who has really only ever read comics as they relate to the MCU, with the occasional bout of something that gathers critical acclaim like the Scott King Vision series.
 
Parthenios

Parthenios

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
13,615
So two episodes left and everyone seems to be in place for the finale already (Vision en route, Agatha revealed, Wanda + kids captured, Hayward ready to attack) so, next episode will be the Agatha/Hex backstory episode that reveals everything, and the last episode will be the conclusion? Seems likely to me.
 
excelsiorlef

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,327
Rellyrell28 said:
Also seeing Monica go from being that awesome little kid to become a hero in the MCU has me looking forward to seeing how Cassie Lang shapes up when ever she becomes one. Don't know if that's happening in the next Ant-man or not tho.
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It most likely is, they upgraded Cassie Lang's actor from some relatively rando to Kathryn Newton for a reason
 
jph139

jph139

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,385
Luke_wal said:
My understanding with Wanda has always been that she's not actually magic. Like, her powers are telepathic/telekinetic and apparently now reality-warping in nature, but I thought that in the MCU (or Marvel in general), "Magic" referred to Dr. Strange, his fancy circles, his sparks, and all those hand motions (for example, the Sling Ring).

Now, I see Agatha referring to Wanda's abilities interchangeably as magic, as well as her own abilities, which look a lot more like what Wanda can do, but just purple, rather than Dr Strange/Ancient One and their circles. So what am I missing here? Are Agatha and Strange's magic different, is it the same magic in different forms, or is what Agatha can do not actually magic?

I'm saying all of this as someone who has really only ever read comics as they relate to the MCU, with the occasional bout of something that gathers critical acclaim like the Scott King Vision series.
Click to expand...
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In the comics, Wanda has inborn superpowers - probability manipulation - and later learns magic under the tutelage of Agatha Harkness (who isn't evil in the comics). It's murky where one begins and the other ends sometimes, but there's a line between the two.

Bottom line, we don't know here yet.

My speculation, is that it's going to be the same thing, just different flavors. Like how x-rays and gamma rays and visible light are all just different forms of the same thing. The difference is probably that Strange is trained in a particular school of magic, while Wanda is using her inborn magical abilities.
 
Kaelan

Kaelan

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,642
Maryland
Apparently Paul Bethany confirmed that even peters wasn't the cameo he talked about. I remmber thinking the same thing tbh. I'm excited to see who it is
 
Rellyrell28

Rellyrell28

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,974
excelsiorlef said:
It most likely is, they upgraded Cassie Lang's actor from some relatively rando to Kathryn Newton for a reason
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On that note I wished they didn't change her again. Maybe it's because I was worried about Cassie's fate in Endgame so much that I thought the scene with Scott and her reunited was well done that maybe that actress should of deserved a chance to continue on as her.
 
Aprikurt

Aprikurt

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 29, 2017
18,783
Kaelan said:
Apparently Paul Bethany confirmed that even peters wasn't the cameo he talked about. I remmber thinking the same thing tbh. I'm excited to see who it is
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It's not Cumberbund, it's not Peters, and purportedly an actor he's been wanting to work with for a long time... all his life... hmmm.
Rellyrell28 said:
On that note I wished they didn't change her again. Maybe it's because I was worried about Cassie's fate in Endgame so much that I thought the scene with Scott and her reunited was well done that maybe that actress should of deserved a chance to continue on as her.
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"You're so big!"

:'(

Rudd is underrated as an actor and I hope he gets some more emotional beats in Quantumania.
 
Mandos

Mandos

Member
Nov 27, 2017
31,014
Luke_wal said:
My understanding with Wanda has always been that she's not actually magic. Like, her powers are telepathic/telekinetic and apparently now reality-warping in nature, but I thought that in the MCU (or Marvel in general), "Magic" referred to Dr. Strange, his fancy circles, his sparks, and all those hand motions (for example, the Sling Ring).

Now, I see Agatha referring to Wanda's abilities interchangeably as magic, as well as her own abilities, which look a lot more like what Wanda can do, but just purple, rather than Dr Strange/Ancient One and their circles. So what am I missing here? Are Agatha and Strange's magic different, is it the same magic in different forms, or is what Agatha can do not actually magic?

I'm saying all of this as someone who has really only ever read comics as they relate to the MCU, with the occasional bout of something that gathers critical acclaim like the Scott King Vision series.
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Traditionally Wanda has a connection to chaos magic(which is less structured than Stranges)
 
Aprikurt

Aprikurt

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 29, 2017
18,783
Doctor Strange in Ep 9:
giphy.gif
 
Cuburger

Cuburger

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,975
Ravelle said:
I'm not saying she isn't evil but that there's more at play than her being just being the the main villain doing villain stuff.
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I think even if we hadn't seen any other actions from Agatha that suggested there were things that scared her and that she wasn't in control the whole time, I think it would be unlikely that she's nothing more than a mustache twirling villain, especially after the show taking the time to set up some good nuance in everything that is happening.
 
excelsiorlef

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,327
Rellyrell28 said:
On that note I wished they didn't change her again. Maybe it's because I was worried about Cassie's fate in Endgame so much that I thought the scene with Scott and her reunited was well done that maybe that actress should of deserved a chance to continue on as her.
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Kathryn Newton is an actor you can give a series to tbh

If you can get her, you get her
 
Jodez99

Jodez99

Member
Jan 1, 2018
3,615
jph139 said:
In the comics, Wanda has inborn superpowers - probability manipulation - and later learns magic under the tutelage of Agatha Harkness (who isn't evil in the comics). It's murky where one begins and the other ends sometimes, but there's a line between the two.

Bottom line, we don't know here yet.

My speculation, is that it's going to be the same thing, just different flavors. Like how x-rays and gamma rays and visible light are all just different forms of the same thing. The difference is probably that Strange is trained in a particular school of magic, while Wanda is using her inborn magical abilities.
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I mean what really is the difference between reality warping and magic.
 
Ravelle

Ravelle

Member
Oct 31, 2017
17,806
excelsiorlef said:
I mean you said not evil intentions
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She does have evil attentions but it also seems like there's a different agenda going on, she's in this bubble with Wanda in which she is fully aware off as we learned in this episode going along with the roles while as far as we know so far not doing anything to forward her evil attentions except for killing Sparky and possibly the kids.

If she's against Wanda, she sure takes her time trying to get rid of her inside her own bubble, she hasn't been trying to get her out of the picture and seemed to prevent conflict so far for some reason. There' s a bunch of questions being raised, like why isn't she trying to get out and if she can why isn't she, why is she trying to keep Wanda in and she just told Wanda to walk in to her evil lair.

In short: yes she's evil but a lot of other actions and things going on seem not of her own evil attentions.
 
Empyrean Cocytus

Empyrean Cocytus

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
18,724
Upstate NY
Yeah, the Agatha Harkness reveal was pretty obvious from the get-go, between the brooch, the name, her not being on the board when they were finding who was playing who in the show (of note, Dottie and the mailman weren't confirmed either).

That said, I don't think her reasons for being there are generally nefarious. She isn't a villain in the comics. I think she's there to spur along Billy and Tommy's development.

My big question is that due to Pietro's absence this episode and the allusions from Wanda that he wasn't the real Pietro, and him having been sent by Agatha in the first place, are we supposed to assume now that he was a fake and him being played by Evan Peters was just a meta reference and a red herring? Because they're going to piss off a LOT of people who are hungry to see mutants in the MCU. Then again, them making references to the Nexus (which I assume will be the MCU's term for the Multiverse) means there has to be SOMETHING at play there.
 
makonero

makonero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,666
in dr strange, the ancient one describes using magic as if you're altering the programs that run the universe. obviously, their group of sorcerers study magic and learn it from scratch like programmers. you aren't supposed to go outside "natural law," though it can be done.

agatha and wanda seem to have it built in, ie, like sorcerers from d&d and their magic is less stable or orderly. so this could be the intro to chaos magic as a concept in direct opposition to strange and company's ordered magic.
 
Entryhazard

Entryhazard

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,843
makonero said:
agatha and wanda seem to have it built in, ie, like sorcerers from d&d and their magic is less stable or orderly. so this could be the intro to chaos magic as a concept in direct opposition to strange and company's ordered magic.
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we don't know if agatha has innate powers instead of being a learned spellcaster
 
excelsiorlef

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,327
Ravelle said:
She does have evil attentions but it also seems like there's a different agenda going on, she's in this bubble with Wanda in which she is fully aware off as we learned in this episode going along with the roles while as far as we know so far not doing anything to forward her evil attentions except for killing Sparky and possibly the kids.

If she's against Wanda, she sure takes her time trying to get rid of her inside her own bubble, she hasn't been trying to get her out of the picture and seemed to prevent conflict so far for some reason. There' s a bunch of questions being raised, like why isn't she trying to get out and if she can why isn't she, why is she trying to keep Wanda in and she just told Wanda to walk in to her evil lair.

In short: yes she's evil but a lot of other actions and things going on seem not of her own evil attentions.
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She manipulated everything to get the kids, age them up, now she is and has been intentionally destabilizing Wanda's world
 
Tuorom

Tuorom

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,917
Lopez said:
He played the devil in the "Devils Advocate" with Keanu Reaves.
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Devil's Advocate was actually an origin story for Constantine. Pacino as the "devil" Mephisto, and John having seen this demonic work decides to get into all that supernatural shit. Stormare was just another form he took.

tenor.gif
ClearcutParallelJackal-small.gif
 
Entryhazard

Entryhazard

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,843
makonero said:
this is true. i'm going off of the way her magic is displayed on screen--purple clouds, etc. very different from strange's orange sparks.
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That it might be because there are different schools/styles of magic and not everyone learned it at Kamar-taj
In fact in the comics Agatha had her own magical community where she thaught how to do magic
The fact that she has a magic grimoire in her dungeon makes me think she is of the learned type
 
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